How long DIP will be used ?

[alin_im]

Hey guys,

Today when I was contemplating about electronics on my way to another day for the MAN, i was wondering, do you think that in the next 5-10 years there will be no new ICs that will be produced in a DIP package format ? Everything will be SMD ? Do you think DIP will die ? Are we going to use endless SMD adapters for prototyping ?

Kind regards,
Alin I.

[MK14]

In the "old days", some IC's were in these nice round, metal packages, like this:



They are now, somewhat non-existent (ok, now I said this, some posters will show links where they are still being made  ).

So they (DIPs/DILs) probably are going to somewhat gradually fade away.
But they have been around for a very long time, so I expect DIP to remain somewhat available.

It is already very difficult to get at least some of the latest op-amps in DIP packages, in my experience.
Almost no Arm microcontrollers are available in DIPs.
As the specifications and frequency increases, other (non-Arm) MCU, also get increasingly rarer, in DIP format.

tl;dr
I think DIP has already disappeared a lot. New chips tend to not be available in DIP format, these days, with some exceptions, such as some PICs.
***EDIT: Chips with lots of pins (e.g. > 28 pins, but especially > 40 pins) and high performance (frequency) parts, tend to not be available in DIP format. But I agree that small/simple low pin count IC's, such as LED drivers, logic and some other stuff, is still available in DIP format.

[Ampera]

As a casual observer to the field of Electrical Engineering (I hope to make it a career one day, but this is beside the point) I sorta wanna say no.

But do you mean DIP or do you mean through-hole?

DIP is good for hobbyist projects as it's WAY easier to solder than SMD parts, so in terms of common parts for hobby projects, and basic logic, DIP is going to be around for a while.

Through hole is here forever. There are TONS of parts for through hole, and even massive almost entirely SMD boards normally have some through hole stuff.

If you're talking serious ICs like microcontrollers etc. BGA is probably the future imo, with SMD being for some parts. Really serious parts like CPUs are either BGA or PGA.

Or I could be talking bullshit and should go dig a few holes in the wall with my head. iunno 

[sleemanj]

DIP is good for hobbyist projects as it's WAY easier to solder than SMD parts

Either

  a) you've never soldered (pin accessible, sane pitch) SMD packages and thus don't realise how much easier it is than soldering through hole packages
  b) you are confusing the term SMD with something else
  c) you drink too much caffeine

soldering SMD packages like SOIC/SOP and QFP is a piece of cake, easier and faster than trudging through a DIP (DIP is a term reserved for through hole packages in the common parlance) pin by pin.

It's only when you get into SMD packages like QFN, BGA or others without accessible pins that things get to be more trouble for the home gamer.

[mikeselectricstuff]

DIPs aren't going away any time soon. There are plenty of applications where parts on the PCB need to be through-hole for size/weight, so DIPs make sense if most parts are already through-hole.
Most Microchip parts, even the newest ones, are available in DIP so they are clearly still selling.
Obviously DIPs have and will continue to reduce in proportion to the whole market, but it's a huge market so still worthwhile.
Most of the cost of making chips is tooling and die test - packaging is the last step, so doing a DIP version is a pretty small deal if there is a market.
I'd imagine the number of new parts that only come in DIP is getting prettty tiny, but existing parts will be made as long as people are buying them in sufficient volume.

 

[SingedFingers]

DIP packages are far nicer to knock out quick prototypes for without running a board (which I rarely if ever do).I hope they never die. Mind you saying that, I was trying to repair something with a CA3096 transistor array in it last month and you can't get them any more so I used the SOIC-16 HEF3096 and soldered that to a carrier board.

On a side note, has anyone any tips for SMD prototyping as this is the killer for me at the moment? I've tried but not found a good flow or method. So far I've used Roth 1.27mm pitch padboard and kynar which works but is laborious. Plus I have to drink a glass of wine to get rid of the shakes first.

The thing is you can't really beat 5 minutes on a solderless breadboard to make sure your DC operating points aren't total shit on a circuit before you go dead bug. But you can't do that with SMD easily and LTspice is a lying sod half the time and doesn't handle device characteristic spread very well. Most of the stuff I do is analogue as well so it means lots of parts which are hard to handle.

[mikeselectricstuff]

soldering SMD packages like SOIC/SOP and QFP is a piece of cake, easier and faster than trudging through a DIP (DIP is a term reserved for through hole packages in the common parlance) pin by pin.

This is only true if you have a PCB. for breadboarding, veroboard or point-to-point, DIP is much quicker.

[Ampera]

DIP is good for hobbyist projects as it's WAY easier to solder than SMD parts

Either

  a) you've never soldered (pin accessible, sane pitch) SMD packages and thus don't realise how much easier it is than soldering through hole packages
  b) you are confusing the term SMD with something else
  c) you drink too much caffeine

soldering SMD packages like SOIC/SOP and QFP is a piece of cake, easier and faster than trudging through a DIP (DIP is a term reserved for through hole packages in the common parlance) pin by pin.

It's only when you get into SMD packages like QFN, BGA or others without accessible pins that things get to be more trouble for the home gamer.

You're right, I have never done SMD soldering before, and I took the risk that what I was saying may have been bullshit.

What I've heard is it's hard to do it due to the pin pitch being tiny.

[FrankBuss]

On a side note, has anyone any tips for SMD prototyping as this is the killer for me at the moment? I've tried but not found a good flow or method. So far I've used Roth 1.27mm pitch padboard and kynar which works but is laborious. Plus I have to drink a glass of wine to get rid of the shakes first.

I have lots of adapters like this: http://www.ebay.de/itm/252426387396

Soldering SMD parts is easy, but then you can use it on a breadboard like a DIP chip, which makes testing and prototyping much easier and faster. Note: when soldering the header pins, plug them into the breadboard, first, then solder them.

[SingedFingers]

On a side note, has anyone any tips for SMD prototyping as this is the killer for me at the moment? I've tried but not found a good flow or method. So far I've used Roth 1.27mm pitch padboard and kynar which works but is laborious. Plus I have to drink a glass of wine to get rid of the shakes first.

I have lots of adapters like this: http://www.ebay.de/itm/252426387396

Soldering SMD parts is easy, but then you can use it on a breadboard like a DIP chip, which makes testing and prototyping much easier and faster. Note: when soldering the header pins, plug them into the breadboard, first, then solder them.

Yeah I've been using those. I was wondering if there was a quicker and/or less annoying route

[tszaboo]

There is still a bunch of designs, which use  single sided phenolic PCB, and they are high runners. So no, it wont just go away. That doesnt mean, the part you are using will not go away.
It is safer on the long term to design the PCB with SMD parts.

[FrankBuss]

You're right, I have never done SMD soldering before, and I took the risk that what I was saying may have been bullshit.

What I've heard is it's hard to do it due to the pin pitch being tiny.

No, it is a matter of the right tools and some practice with the right technique. I like drag-soldering, really fast for lots of pins. Most important: Don't use too much solder and use enough flux, then suboptimal soldering irons work, too.

[dimkasta]

Well if you think that everyone is cutting costs, eventually consolidating parts to the high demand SMD versions is rather a one-way road.

About the ease of SMD, it is easy IF you have the right tools. For the average hobbyist that is using an iron and not a station, and does not bother with tip maintenance or flux, SMDs are a PITA.

[CM800]

About the ease of SMD, it is easy IF you have the right tools. For the average hobbyist that is using an iron and not a station, and does not bother with tip maintenance or flux, SMDs are a PITA.

Simple solution to this:

Buy flux, maintain your tips, and save up for a decent soldering station.

It's not that bad!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WELLER-WS-81-UK-SOLDERING-STATION-ANALOGUE-80W-240v-V-/272532133696?hash=item3f742e5740:g:1AQAAOSw8w1X9kjS
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Weller-WSD81-24V-soldering-station-with-an-80W-WSP80-iron-/302243440444?hash=item465f1ce73c:g:AjQAAOSwax5YvJ3C

If you have a job, and actually commit to electronics as hobby, you should be able to afford this kind of thing... Expecially if you're at a level where you need to play with SMD parts and THT components arn't avaliable.

If you can solder and work with SMT, I'd say you are guaranteed a job that can afford you to buy one... 

[technix]

soldering SMD packages like SOIC/SOP and QFP is a piece of cake, easier and faster than trudging through a DIP (DIP is a term reserved for through hole packages in the common parlance) pin by pin.

This is only true if you have a PCB. for breadboarding, veroboard or point-to-point, DIP is much quicker.

You can keep samples of SMD parts on DIP adapters for easier breadboarding. I have chips up towards QFP-48 (STM32F103CBT6 ARM Cortex-M3 MCU) on such adapter boards ready to go.

[mariush]

For high frequency stuff, you may see dip going away, simply because the pins need to be closer together and decoupling capacitors need to be closer together and so on (ex switching regulators running at high frequencies need the inductors as close as possible to the pins and DIP packages make the total length of the traces too long)
For regular microcontrollers, opamps etc dip is still perfectly fine, i don't see it going away.

[alin_im]

For SMD work i am using a Hackko 888 and a cheap hot air station like this one:

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-YIHUA-959D-Hot-Air-Gun-650W-SMD-REWORK-STATION-Iron-Soldering-Welding-/162334074941?hash=item25cbdd683d%3Ag%3AN2kAAOSwImRYYNUS&_trkparms=pageci%253A5872a3d7-096e-11e7-9378-74dbd180ced2%257Cparentrq%253Ad19ea42f15a0a5e0b6fff8fbfff38baa%257Ciid%253A25

Another alternative setup for what you recommended (weller irons)

[Ampera]

Yea, my experience is more with computer science.

That and useless facts. I probably know enough useless facts to go on Jeopardy.

[Codebird]

There are certain chips which are made in such volume - the 555, the 741, the LM339 - that I think they will always be available in DIP form.

[ptricks]

I hope DIP doesn't go away.
There really isn't anything like it right now.
DIP is cool because you can breadboard with it, and it is socketed, which means in the field you can easily swap out bad chips, with anything else you have to have the chip on a board with a socket and that gets complex if you have lots of chips on a board.

[Jeroen3]

N(e)XP(eria) put out an EOL for all DIP devices years ago. Only TI and ST still sell them.
They're going away. You have to accept it.

[rstofer]

Some years back I was stuck in a thru-hole mentality.  Now I avoid it at every opportunity. 

My boards tend to be small (2.5"x3.8") and 2 or 4 layers.  I can hand solder most SMDs but it is faster to cook them on a hotplate.  It just needs to have an uninterrupted heated surface as large as the boards.  Put down solder paste, place the components, set the board on the hotplate and crank it all the way up.  When the solder flows, remove the board without jostling the parts.  Simple and completely lacking in elegance.

So, I converted a Black & Decker InfraWave toaster oven to a reflow oven.  I don't know if it is better or worse but it does allow for larger boards.

Drag soldering works well.  Look at that big clubby tip!  You really don't want some small pointy thing.  Flux and just a dab of solder on the tip is all it takes.

So, why the hotplate and reflow oven?  Simple!  When there are a lot of components, it simply takes too long to solder them by hand.  Just placing the components in the solder paste is time consuming.  BTW, you can use paste solder with a regular iron as well.  This is particularly handy for small 0805s (and smaller).  Place the component, hold it down with curved tweezers and hit the junction with an iron.  If you have the tweezers perpendicular to the part, you can solder both ends without having to reorient things.

 

[Cerebus]

N(e)XP(eria) put out an EOL for all DIP devices years ago. Only TI and ST still sell them.

And Analog, and Linear, and ...

There will always be a place for DIP in high precision and low current ICs. Heat is the enemy of precision and the much lower thermal capacity of SMD versus DIP packages can make the difference if you're in the uV and pA territory. Plus, try bending a pin off the board for low leakage on a SOIC package the way you would on a DIP package when you're trying to measure pAs. You'll often see high precision boards that are mostly SMD with a few strategic DIP packages.

And then there's big discretes and power ICs. At some point you have to come off the board and bolt on a heatsink and until you get to the point where you literally bolt cables on too you're going to want to solder the pins through the board for simple mechanical integrity. TO-220 and his friends will never die.

On the other hand, I can't think of a single recent digital chip that was anything but surface mount.

[Jeroen3]

I think you underestimate the exposed power pad on the bottom of a soic.
https://cds.linear.com/docs/en/packaging/Linear_Technology_Thermal_Resistance_Table.pdf

From what I see mostly only opto-stuff still comes in dip. Or dip with the pins hammered flat.
Or a high soic package.

[Cerebus]

I think you underestimate the exposed power pad on the bottom of a soic.
https://cds.linear.com/docs/en/packaging/Linear_Technology_Thermal_Resistance_Table.pdf

From what I see mostly only opto-stuff still comes in dip. Or dip with the pins hammered flat.
Or a high soic package.

What exposed power pad? Not a single SMD op amp in my parts box has a thermal pad. They do however get almost twice as hot as the equivalent DIP parts.