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How many people code in C these days, and if so, why?

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olkipukki:
Nobody mentioned JavaScript yet?  :o

GUI in C#? Come on, grown up kids do everything in Electron and React Native these days  :-DD

intmpe:

--- Quote from: Cerebus on May 10, 2020, 08:50:50 am ---
--- Quote from: intmpe on May 10, 2020, 03:48:15 am ---
--- Quote from: Cerebus on May 10, 2020, 01:46:46 am ---There is a huge difference between a commercial R&D facility, even ones as freewheeling as Bell Labs or PARC, and academia. The ongoing development of C & UNIX had to be justified at some point by a commercial aim, specifically the pretext used was to to produce a text processing system for the Bell Labs patent processing office. They might be ideas factories, but they are ideas factories that are expected to produce something that works at the end of the day driven by very different forces than academe.

--- End quote ---

There is actually not. Universities are businesses. They say at business school that engineers make the worst business people. This response proves it.

--- End quote ---

Well, the first business that I was one of the 3 on the senior management team in the 90s went from zero to a profitable turnover of £6 million in its first year, so yeah, engineers clearly make terrible business people - I'm living proof!

Before you launch off making sweeping and somewhat ad homiem remarks on here, it's wise to consider that there's a lot of folks on here who've been around the block more than once or twice. What next, telling Win that he knows nothing about writing textbooks? Also, using "business school" as support for an argument is likely to draw hollow laughs out of anyone here who has encountered the output of "business schools" in real life. Hint: Most of them need assistance tying their own shoelaces.

Moreover, the idea that Universities are (or ought to be) businesses is more telling of a certain mindset than it is an accurate description of Universities. They are supposed to be institutes of learning and research.


--- Quote ---Basic, Pascal, Minix, Linux, GNU, Netscape all came out of non-commercial activities. Even the Win3.1 TCP/IP stack that got everyone on the internet was non commercial.

If one were to be more correct then its the old addage necessity is the mother of invention. Managers and hence companies are by their nature non innovative and non-creative. If you want to find the most non-creative person in a company - go to the c-suite. When I was in GE research labs we had one of the luminaries come back in. He effectively lectured the managers that while they may want something NEVER pre-define the research outcome because if you do you will get nothing. And so it was. Good researchers will deliver output - I have never not delivered - but its not always what they want. What they want is not always possible. i.e. cost.

--- End quote ---

I'm not the one that contends that academe has not produced a good programming language.

--- End quote ---

Well, don't make dumb shit remarks about R&D vis a vis Universities if you've never been in a both a real industrial research campus doing hardcore research and a University - because if you were around in 90's like I was then you know what you said was garbage. You aren't the only one who has been around the block. I'd go toe to toe with any of the wannabees I've seen on here so far. Looks like a hobbyist playground.

BTW UKP 6M is piss money. 2 years ago I stood one up for UKP12M and it failed because the grand poo bah couldn't get his head out of his arse. Unless you are the one pulling the strings - being in the c-suite means you are probably just someone they know wont stuff up their end. But usually in every show I've been in - its been a one man show - and sunk by one man. Making it requires sustained success over a long period of time in order to extract profits - and a hundred other success factors play into it to make sure you don't go under 2 years later. There are few who can do it and any of the ones that I know who have done it aren't really true electronic businesses in the old sense - there is some other key factor. If it happened in the 90's they probably buried it long ago. Meanwhile the local McDonanlds franchise has pulled in 20 or 30MUKP in the meantime.

I actually agree with you about business school but they do get a few things right. Generally they are useless as they all want their theories taken seriously in isolation of the real world. However this doesn't mean the long term studies of certain business environments does not have some merit. Druker for example hated electronics - thought it was over hyped and basically said more people made fortunes running laundromats than ever made it in electronics. By made it - it means standing up a company and then being able to lift it to a stable place where eventually you either continue running it or you exit with a boot full of cash i.e. the local McDonald franchisee. Druker's observation of electronics was - he said they startup and in a year or two they are gone. Being able to do that is not successful management - that's called luck. Conning money out of investors i.e. the 12M UKP example above is what its mostly about - as Rivkin used to say most businesses are set up to con the investor. But then most investors are cunts who deserve to be parted with their money. Sorry- some experience talking.

Edit: Just to add to that - electronics is transient - its easy to get an idea up and funded. Well not easy but not impossible. But the market changes quickly, and for the most part businesses can't change. They flop around trying things until they wasted all the cash they had. So after years of this crap I have only come up with one conclusion - get the company up and running and when you see the rain clouds - liquidate it and take the money or if their is a willing buyer sell it - take the money and work on the new thing. Don't stick around - Ive never seen a business come back from a changing environment. Hell once you have the money buy a McDonalds franchise. Makes a lot more sense than attempting to compete with so low cost operation that starts on a dime somewhere and eats your lunch.

IDEngineer:

--- Quote from: engrguy42 on May 10, 2020, 11:00:19 pm ---Yeah, no kidding...the horse died like 10 pages ago.
--- End quote ---
The title asks two questions. My earlier post addressed the first ("How many people code in C these days?"), the answer is it has retaken first place in a popular poll.

As to the second ("Why?"), there's been some postulating and pontificating herein with a few solid reasons scattered here and there.

Most else in this thread has been the usual back-and-forth. But a few of us actually did attempt to address the original questions....

Berni:

--- Quote from: olkipukki on May 10, 2020, 11:20:57 pm ---Nobody mentioned JavaScript yet?  :o

GUI in C#? Come on, grown up kids do everything in Electron and React Native these days  :-DD

--- End quote ---

I did mention JavaScript when talking about how modern JIT in things like C# can make managed code run pretty much almost as fast as C++. Where JavaScript is no exception, thanks to the popularity of browsers it got some impressively quick JIT thrown at it.

JS is not just for browsers anymore. For example the popular chat client Discord has its PC client app written in JS with a bunch of frameworks stacked on top as its usually the case for JS. Its sneakily under the hood of a lot of things. Personally im not a fan of JS and most of this web stuff, but i have to admit it is a rather powerful and performant language these days.

I do have my share of gripes with C# too, but the convenience of "it just works" in VisualStudio makes it up for me. I don't want to muck about with setting up some fancy dev enviorment for the usual quick tool apps in throw together in it. It literally takes me less than a minute to start a new project, create a GUI app with a few buttons that does something simple and turn it into a self contained exe. I can even do this even after not touching C# for >1 year because i don't need to memorize any documentation. Its a few obvious clicks to create a project and plonk down buttons and once i get to writing code the VS intelisense autocomplete holds my hand all the time, if i do need more info what a function does i just hit F1 while the cursor is on it and bam browser pops up with documentation including a code example. There are plenty of ready to go libraries to read/write most popular file formats, graphics, communicate on the network, do OS stuff...etc I'm lazy and C# in VisualStudio caters to my laziness very well.

For doing C i would either get the already setup branded Eclipse flavor for that MCU (Cause it again "just works") or use Sublime text as a editor and build it in a console.

For Python i again go the lazy "it just works" route and install JetBrains PyCharm. Again few clicks and i have a running project with a decent code editor, compile/run, debug etc...

bd139:

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