Author Topic: How many years until we run out of original music?  (Read 1323 times)

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Offline Beamin

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How many years until we run out of original music?
« on: March 18, 2019, 12:49:30 am »
At some point we will run out of original music. We are already running out of movies since it seems like every new movie is a remake or "reboot" of an old one usually a shitty old one. But as far as music goes at the current rate they are being copywritten how long until we run out?

To make this solvable we have to assume that music has musical instruments playing chords and if it has lyrics the lyrics are made of words that form sentences. Random noise and notes doesn't count. The length doesn't really matter because you can hear only a few seconds of music to know if you have heard it before. So with these parameters how much music is left?
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Offline metrologist

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2019, 12:54:41 am »
This seems similar to my question about copyrighted code for micros. At some point every usable permutation is used and copyrighted.

However, in creative works, there are no physical boundaries and any crazy tangent can be injected.

Oh, but you said music. This is interesting...

 

Offline Deepak

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2019, 01:01:07 am »
To make this solvable we have to assume that music has musical instruments playing chords and if it has lyrics the lyrics are made of words that form sentences.

I'm sure there's some composers, as well as Industrial bands that might not agree with your interpretation. But a simple question - is an instrumental drum set music?
 

Offline Echo88

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2019, 01:41:35 am »
Indeed, theres only about 21.3 years of original music left.
And once you've read the dictionary, every other book you read is just a remix.
Good thing you dont keep running out of original and clever questions.
 
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Online magic

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2019, 01:54:47 am »
Given what passes as music today I don't see it as a realistic problem :box:

To make this solvable we have to assume that music has musical instruments playing chords and if it has lyrics the lyrics are made of words that form sentences. Random noise and notes doesn't count. The length doesn't really matter because you can hear only a few seconds of music to know if you have heard it before. So with these parameters how much music is left?
If you really must know, there is exactly countable infinity of finite sequences from a finite set.
 

Online ebastler

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2019, 03:06:47 am »
How long until we run out of meaningful forum posts?  :P
 
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Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2019, 03:09:49 am »
I think it's coming closer and closer to a point where "collisions" are possible.  You hear of musicians being sued for copyright sometimes because it just happens their song sounds too close to another song.  There is only so many possible ways to place the notes.
 

Online richnormand

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2019, 03:25:01 am »
We have had music in several forms for over 2000 years this thread sounds more like the folks that wanted to close the patent office in the 1900s because everything that could be invented already had been...... |O
 

Offline WildMOSFET

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2019, 03:37:37 am »
I think the problem comes from new methods of music production.
Before, in the old days everything was done manually.
Now with the music software all the originality is missing. :-//
 

Offline schmitt trigger

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2019, 03:48:33 am »
At some point we will run out of original music. We are already running out of movies sincew it seems like every new movie is a remake or "reboot" of an old one usually a shitty old one.

Hollywood follows the money.
If those shitty action movies, super-hero reboots directed by Michael Bay full of CG-effects, if those movies fill theaters to the brims, what do you think movie executives will finance next time?

Music follows a similar path
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2019, 03:57:19 am »
How long until we run out of meaningful forum posts?  :P
We did 5 year ago, after The Great Drought. Don't you remember?
 

Offline vtwin@cox.net

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2019, 04:00:34 am »
if I copyright a single red pixel as a work of art, can I demand royalties from everyone who publishes a picture containing a red pixel :)
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Online ebastler

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2019, 04:02:27 am »
How long until we run out of meaningful forum posts?  :P
We did 5 year ago, after The Great Drought. Don't you remember?

 ;)

I was biting my tongue (or should that be "biting my thumb" for this medium?) to stop myself from adding something along those lines to my earlier post.
 

Offline Echo88

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2019, 04:27:56 am »
The great drought?
 

Offline John B

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2019, 04:58:52 am »
As long as their is creativity: never. For starters, most music in the world is improvised and is therefore a living, evolving craft.

But when you put a whole lot of arbitrary constraints on the matter, then you start to see what people refer to as "running out" of music.

If you take most contemporary pop styles of music, they are equal tempered, diatonic, largely 4/4 and based around 2^x form arrangements. The same melodic fragment, even if played by 2 separate musicians on 2 separate instruments in different songs, becomes contentious under copyright. With these kinds of constraints, it's no surprise that you'd feel as though nothing new is being made. That coupled with the mass production/"song made in a week" type of approach to commercial music and things look dim.

However, musicians have it better than ever with the advent of computer based DSP. You can construct sound right from the bottom up with component sine waves, filter, distort and shape to your hearts content. You can use whatever time signatures and chronological patterns you want, and different tuning systems are easy too. Then you get into the more conceptual stuff. Is a piece of music set in stone as a recording, or can it be a set of guidelines which a rudimentary program uses to generate a soundscape or piece of music? Or what if something scans your body and gives you a bespoke composition for you?

Really, the possibilities are on the scale of "atoms in the universe". Get back to me once the sun has died, then we will re-evaluate things.
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2019, 05:23:10 am »
However, musicians have it better than ever with the advent of computer based DSP. You can construct sound right from the bottom up with component sine waves, filter, distort and shape to your hearts content. You can use whatever time signatures and chronological patterns you want, and different tuning systems are easy too. Then you get into the more conceptual stuff. Is a piece of music set in stone as a recording, or can it be a set of guidelines which a rudimentary program uses to generate a soundscape or piece of music? Or what if something scans your body and gives you a bespoke composition for you?
Computer based music creation is nothing new! It dates back to well before affordable home computers reached 100MHz.

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Online ataradov

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2019, 05:27:06 am »
There are plenty of good movies. The only reason for all those reboots and superheroes movies is easy cash. As soon as the number of people giving money to see that stuff dries up, those reboots will go away.
Alex
 
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Offline John B

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2019, 06:37:51 am »
Computer based music creation is nothing new! It dates back to well before affordable home computers reached 100MHz.

Yeah I used quite a few trackers back in the late 1990's and early 2000's. Hell I've even seen the Fairlight CMI in person.

Trackers were quite a revolutionary way of storing game music before MP3 compression was used, not to mention quite innovative.

For example, the game Deus Ex, using the unreal engine and UMX tracker files was able to seamlessly go between combat and idle music by going between patterns. Because it was playing samples, the transition was seamless. Not to mention the quantity and quality of music exceeded what was possible and practical with MP3 at the time.

However the stuff I'm talking about goes quite beyond sample players and has only been able to progress with the pace of computer performance. The generative soundscapes that I play around with easily max out a 2.4GHz CPU core, and utilising multiple CPU cores is notoriously difficult with quasi real time audio.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2019, 07:16:13 am »
There are plenty of good movies. The only reason for all those reboots and superheroes movies is easy cash. As soon as the number of people giving money to see that stuff dries up, those reboots will go away.

All that needs to be done is ban popcorn and coke at movie theaters. Then people will be coming to watch stories, not to eat and drink like pigs.
 

Offline Deepak

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2019, 08:21:55 am »
There are plenty of good movies. The only reason for all those reboots and superheroes movies is easy cash. As soon as the number of people giving money to see that stuff dries up, those reboots will go away.

All that needs to be done is ban popcorn and coke at movie theaters. Then people will be coming to watch stories, not to eat and drink like pigs.

I think snacks have gone with movies pretty much since there were movies.

 

Offline Fred27

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2019, 09:08:40 am »
How long until you run out of stupid irrelevant questions to ask?
 
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Offline apis

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2019, 09:24:06 am »


Quote
Assume that all songs use a Western musical scale and that such a scale contains twelve distinct intervals. Assume that a judge (not a musician but a judge) will distinguish three distinct note durations (which roughly correspond to eighth, quarter, and half notes, or through a trivial change in time signature, to quarter, half, and whole notes, or to sixteenth, eighth, and quarter notes). Thus, there are 36 possible distance vectors from one note to the next, and 36(n - 1) melodies of n notes.

Now, 36 to the third power equals 46,656 distinct melodies. No other melodies are possible in the Western musical scale.
source
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 09:33:29 am by apis »
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2019, 11:39:25 am »
However, musicians have it better than ever with the advent of computer based DSP. You can construct sound right from the bottom up with component sine waves, filter, distort and shape to your hearts content. You can use whatever time signatures and chronological patterns you want, and different tuning systems are easy too. Then you get into the more conceptual stuff. Is a piece of music set in stone as a recording, or can it be a set of guidelines which a rudimentary program uses to generate a soundscape or piece of music? Or what if something scans your body and gives you a bespoke composition for you?
Computer based music creation is nothing new! It dates back to well before affordable home computers reached 100MHz.

Fun fact: The "Beyond 2000" (an Australian technology series from the 1980's-1990's) opening and closing theme music was written and composed by a bloke in Sydney. I actually spoke to him about it years ago and he was telling me he composed it entirely on an Apple IIe (if I recall correctly). He sold the rights along with all the original master tapes to Beyond Productions who still exist.

They have a tape library in Artarmon, NSW full of old TV shows on U-matic tape. For a fee, they will convert it to DVD for you.

I tried to encourage them to release all the old Beyond 2000 episodes onto DVD but they weren't interested.

 

Offline unitedatoms

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2019, 01:44:40 pm »
There always will be new things, because I keep forgetting what I saw or read. I rewatch all star treks every 5 years because I completely forget everything.
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Online edy

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Re: How many years until we run out of original music?
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2019, 02:38:25 pm »
Never! Remember music before electric guitar? What about before the advent of "scratching records", hip hop and drum machines? Those are but a tiny example... we cannot imagine what is possible. Don't forget also the many permutations of keys and scales, rhythms, instrumentations, sound effects and word intimations and other vocal sounds that can be combined. I don't think we are anywhere close to being at the end of our creativity... although many songs today sound similar due to our limited cultural experiences and commercialism.
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