General > General Technical Chat
How to deal with manipulative coworker
nctnico:
--- Quote from: langwadt on September 08, 2022, 09:41:35 pm ---
--- Quote from: snarkysparky on September 08, 2022, 07:02:49 pm ---I keep enough money saved. The very fcking instant I am told that i am on "notice" I will provide them with a "notice" and they can watch my backside exit.
--- End quote ---
I don't know how it is in the Nederlands, but here if you quit you have one month notice and after that 3 weeks with no unemployment pay.
if you get fired your notice is three months plus an extra month for every three years of employment, so if the company wants to get rid of
you they would much prefer you quit rather than firing you
--- End quote ---
In the NL you might get welfare if you quit but no unemployment pay. If you get fired, then you are entitled to some pay but this has been cut down drastically due to the financial crisis. Companies could no longer afford to fire people and went belly up because the companies couldn't pay the salaries.
So yes, having a next job lined up before you quit is a good idea if you plan on getting a different job. I doubt tszaboo will have any difficulty finding a new job. Probably a good company to look out for is one which has other foreign people working there so the company is already used to different cultures and customs.
fourfathom:
--- Quote from: langwadt on September 08, 2022, 09:41:35 pm ---I don't know how it is in the Nederlands, but here if you quit you have one month notice and after that 3 weeks with no unemployment pay.
if you get fired your notice is three months plus an extra month for every three years of employment, so if the company wants to get rid of
you they would much prefer you quit rather than firing you
--- End quote ---
Everyone has different financial needs, but if by waiting for them to fire you you miss out on a good opportunity and have to spend more time in Hell, then it may be better to just walk away. This is your career and your life we're talking about here, and a gaining a bit more money may cost you dearly in other ways. Robert Heinlein wrote “In the course of a long life, one should be prepared to abandon one's baggage several times." I think this is useful advice.
SiliconWizard:
--- Quote from: langwadt on September 08, 2022, 09:41:35 pm ---
--- Quote from: snarkysparky on September 08, 2022, 07:02:49 pm ---I keep enough money saved. The very fcking instant I am told that i am on "notice" I will provide them with a "notice" and they can watch my backside exit.
--- End quote ---
I don't know how it is in the Nederlands, but here if you quit you have one month notice and after that 3 weeks with no unemployment pay.
if you get fired your notice is three months plus an extra month for every three years of employment, so if the company wants to get rid of
you they would much prefer you quit rather than firing you
--- End quote ---
Here it depends on the job level. For a typical engineering position, that's 3-month notice. (1-month for lower level positions.) That can sometimes be negotiated. And can be up to 6-month for top-management positions.
Now if you *resign*, rather than get fired, you get the same notice but are (usually) not entitled to unemployment benefits. At all. In a number of rare cases, you may after one month or so, but that's only for particular situations. Here they consider that if you resign out of your free will (you were not forced to), it's your decision, and you get no help.
For the other point, same. It usually costs significant money to fire someone that has been employed for a number of years.
WillTurner:
"He will choose you, disarm you with his words, and control you with his presence. He will delight you with his wit and his plans. He will smile and deceive you, and he will scare you with his eyes. And when he is through with you, and he will be through with you, he will desert you, and take with him your innocence and your pride."
Robert D. Hare, "Without Conscience"
I think you may have obliquely come across Robert Hare "The Psychopathy Checklist" eg [1] and [2]. If not, do some serious reading.
Psychopaths occur in relationships, within organizations, or control nations.
Defensive moves are limited, and probably ineffective, however the first step [2] is to acknowledge the situation. Then you have some options:
* counterattack (involves exposing yourself) and you win by engaging a bigger (say, management) psychopath or being one yourself. Good luck with that :(.
* drive them away (eg offer not to press criminal charges in exchange for their resignation.) Good luck with that also.
* run (maybe the only viable option).
Also, do not empathise.
Maybe only a few percent of humans are psychopaths, but they do immense damage to the rest of us.
References
[1] "The Psychopathy Checklist by Robert Hare" https://exploringyourmind.com/the-psychopathy-checklist-by-robert-hare/
[2] Verstappen, Stefan "Defense against the Psychopath", Woodbridge Press 2011
pcprogrammer:
--- Quote from: tszaboo on September 08, 2022, 08:26:22 pm ---
--- Quote from: pcprogrammer on September 08, 2022, 06:55:05 pm ---
--- Quote from: tszaboo on September 08, 2022, 05:59:51 pm ---It's also not the Dutch way.
--- End quote ---
What is the Dutch way? I guess the guy who is stabbing you in the back is Dutch. Is that the Dutch way? Don't forget there are assholes in every culture.
--- End quote ---
I think you misunderstood. The Dutch way seems to me that everyone in a meeting needs to agree before it can continue.
I dont have this, perfectly capable on working on something that I didn't had a say in.
--- End quote ---
Well then things must have changed since I retired. Have been in several meetings during my working days and points could easily be left open. But as with everything things do change over time and this might be one of them.
Regarding self employment I think nctnico oversimplifies things based on his own experiences. There are lots of things to consider like the rules for employer employee relationships. Don't know what the rules are know, but when I was self employed (>10 years ago), there were rules about when you worked for a company being self employed to test if there was no employer employee relationship, just to avoid paying additional social taxes. Could be very expensive for both parties if the inspection revealed such a relationship.
Furthermore if your work is hardware related it involves investments like buying your own test equipment to setup your own lab.
I'm not saying it is not a way to go, just be aware of what is involved in doing so. Be well informed before taking the step.
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