How to find a driven business partner like Steve Jobs?

[John_ITIC]

Still the question which bothers me is: is the market big enough to support a company consisting of 4 to 5 persons? That is what you are talking about IMHO. You'll need yourself, a secretary to answer the phone, a salesperson, a support person and probably a techie to do all kinds of simple jobs. Perhaps you have to think about a second design engineer as well to reduce the risk in case something happens to you.

To look for investors I'd start on Linkedin and initiatives which help startups. Over here there are also several annual startup competitions. You don't have to enlist in one but talking to the companies which have enlisted and the ones which invest probably gets you valuable information. Just start asking questions and at some point you'll get the right answer.

Teaming up with a competitor is not a bad idea either. Perhaps there are more but I'd start with the ones to which your products are complementary.

Still I think you'll be giving up a lot of your freedom if you want to pursue the protocol analyser business! Why not concentrate on the contracting business and let the protocol analyser business die?

Thanks for the suggestions. The web is littered with web sites claiming to assist startups so I'm not sure where to start looking for serious information or help. I do know that our local angel investor group has monthly meetings and I even sent a prior co-worker there for his funding. He ended up getting funded but later sued by his own company when things didn't work out.

What is needed short-term is a cash infusion to get the next product ready (3-6 months living expenses for 1 person). Having one more person employed full-time for sales, marketing, trade-shows etc would be very nice. One more engineer would be very important to get to the market sooner and to maintain existing products. So, yes, 2-3 people would be needed. And for that to happen, proper funding would be critical.

Consulting is not very profitable in the US anymore. Companies are holding on to their money very hard as they don't have any rush to finish their projects. They are essentially in "cash-preserve" mode and are trying to be profitable by cutting cost rather than try to get more business. I've seen this since around the start of the financial crisis (end of 2007 or so). Also, the laws here in the US make it harder for larger companies to hire independent consultants with the effect that corporations now prefer to work with larger staffing firms, passing all profit to the staffing firm owners.

The best options for me are to either get a job, which pays around $150K USD per year or to attract funding and work for around $60K/year until sufficient revenue exists to take out more salary. The choice is not easy.

Edit: Regarding market size; the protocol analysis business appears to be around 1 billion USD. A company like LeCroy seems to have about $100 million USD share. My smallest competitor has around $1 million USD revenue. They are about 5-10 people, I think. Perhaps one can extrapolate from these numbers.

[Corporate666]

In general, to prove the value, one must have a proven track record of successful ventures to be taken seriously by investors. Investors are (as they should be) suspicious and need proof of the viability of the products. As a first stage, one would be expected to contribute lots of ones own time and money and take the product as far as possible. This is why I have spent 10 years and half a million USD to get to the point where the products are in the same ball-part as the major competitors, which are actual big corporations. As a professional engineer, I could very well have worked in one of those corporations but with real funding, and quicker time to market, the ITIC protocol analyzers have a good chance to be good sellers.

Nobody is expected to work for nothing so the "greedy middle-men" are unfortunately often needed. As they say, 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing...

You asked for serious replies so I will give you one, although it will be harsh.

What you write above in your first sentence is absolutely untrue.  I have invested in business and been invested in by others and while a track record of success is a bonus, it is never ever a requirement or even close to the top of the list in terms of necessary characteristics.

You also have (many times) insulted the value of the very people you are seeking... referring to them as people in clown suits and "greedy middle men".  You are setting yourself up for failure and for a tumultuous future by starting out disrespecting the very people you say you need to succeed.  Imagine a business guy who has investment capital in hand and needs a tech nerd who lives in mom's basement and that they can keep away from public view and just toss him a few bucks to develop some tech that they will use to get rich.  How'd you like to be the disrespected party in that deal?

It seems to me that you have created a self fulfilling prophecy where certain skills are required but you do not possess these skills (because they aren't worthwhile) and therefore will grudgingly partner with such a person so you can have something rather than nothing.

As an investor many times in different businesses and having a network of VC's and angel investors I've worked with before, I would *never* invest in such a person or work with such a person or want such a person to have any contact with my investment network.  They would look at me and wonder what I was thinking.

You probably have a lot more skills than you think you do.  Yes, giving presentations and talking about your product may not be your forte, but you will have to learn how to do it and you will need to do it.  An investor is going to care about your companies numbers... sales, cash flow, IP, customers, etc.  You obviously have some sales ability because you have customers... you definitely don't want to say "the reason I am not selling more is because I am not good at sales".  That's a recipe for failure.

[John_ITIC]

You also have (many times) insulted the value of the very people you are seeking... referring to them as people in clown suits and "greedy middle men".  You are setting yourself up for failure and for a tumultuous future by starting out disrespecting the very people you say you need to succeed.

With all due respect, please read the posts carefully before doling out undue criticism. The "greedy middle men" was a comment made by another poster, who said that he though investors didn't add value, seeing them as greedy. I, on the other hand, have repeatedly said that I greatly value the input from experienced investors, even ready to give up half of the ownership, knowing that the product is only a small part of the business. The "clown suit contest" comment was a reference to the dog and pony show most business owners put on in an attempt to hype their business in hope of attracting funding.

[TerraHertz]

I second Smokey's advice. Steve Jobs was a lying, scheming, double-crossing, egotistical unpleasant bastard, and that's the last thing you need.

The only advice I can offer, comes from my own business failures in the distant past.
One: never sign any exclusive distributorship agreements, ever, and especially not in return for nebulous benefits. In my case that mistake killed a great product (back in the Apple II days) when that guy (who I was friends with) totally failed to do any effective marketing, either international or local. I'd though the same as you - "I need someone more extroverted and gung ho." Didn't work. I should have done it myself.

Second: Never give up control, of a business you created and in which you are the essential technical driver. You say you want a 50% partner, but has it occurred to you this person will then have a say in what future products you develop? And by definition, he'll be much less technically informed than you.
This factor killed another venture I was involved in - a partnership, in which my partner did bring a lot to the business, but was ... how shall I say it? An idiot? Ha ha.. well not really. But it was most frustrating.

Edit to add: Oh, and 2016 is probably a terrible time to try and start up in a field like protocol analyzers, that depends mainly on corporate investment in test equipment. Perhaps as you've been busy with your work you haven't spent much time reading economics news lately? To summarize: in 2016 the world appears to be sliding into a new financial crisis, predicted by many to be much worse than the 2008 events. I'm sure no one here wants to read a long discussion of why. But for you, I'd suggest spending some time reading sites such as http://www.zerohedge.com/

Perhaps you might consider staying in 'small, surviving' mode for a while more, and use that time to build your business networking skills, till it's clearer how the economy will go?

[John_ITIC]

I second Smokey's advice. Steve Jobs was a lying, scheming, double-crossing, egotistical unpleasant bastard, and that's the last thing you need.

Well, these character traits are what got him ahead, apparently. I would never want to work for such a person but I can see how it will be beneficial to work with such a person.

One: never sign any exclusive distributorship agreements, ever, and especially not in return for nebulous benefits. In my case that mistake killed a great product (back in the Apple II days) when that guy (who I was friends with) totally failed to do any effective marketing, either international or local. I'd though the same as you - "I need someone more extroverted and gung ho." Didn't work. I should have done it myself.

I have signed a couple of exclusive distributorships but that is for a distributor in Germany, Austria and Switzerland. It is a big test and measurement distributor and not global so ok. Also, I have seen exclusive distributorships that are cancelable. If they don't work out, the agreement can be canceled and transferred to someone else.

Second: Never give up control, of a business you created and in which you are the essential technical driver. You say you want a 50% partner, but has it occurred to you this person will then have a say in what future products you develop? And by definition, he'll be much less technically informed than you.

Yes, it has occurred to me and (unless the person is an idiot) hopefully he will be much more experienced in the business planning. The idea would be to find someone with 20 years of experience, in a similar situation as me, that would want to go for something bigger than a regular job. Most likely, much easier to find such talent if first getting funding and then hiring the right business talent. For that, a solid business plan is needed, which is the next step!

[John_ITIC]

You probably have a lot more skills than you think you do.  Yes, giving presentations and talking about your product may not be your forte, but you will have to learn how to do it and you will need to do it.  An investor is going to care about your companies numbers... sales, cash flow, IP, customers, etc.  You obviously have some sales ability because you have customers... you definitely don't want to say "the reason I am not selling more is because I am not good at sales".  That's a recipe for failure.

Got it. Thanks. Best to step out of the comfort zone then. Again...

Edit: Not much sales skills have been needed since I sold about $450,000 USD on a small Google Ad. The technical features of the products were the main selling points as well as the much lower price than competitors'. The engineering sold the products. The issue is that I have 20 years invested in top of the line engineering skills (consulting level) and see the value of that as a better contributor to the business than whatever business skills I may have time to learn. Therefore, being distracted by the business side will definitely hurt the engineering side. This is why I have started using distributors, getting help to sell the products. This helps a little bit but, still, the product development cycle is still too slow. Therefore, the bottle-neck is really the engineering side and not the business side. Possibly, I could attract enough funding to hire additional engineering resources and then utilize distributors world-wide for distribution. But, again, the product life cycle is very short so hard to compete with larger corporations. Even the large test and measurement competitors frequently sell their protocol analysis divisions since hard to make money.

[John_ITIC]

Edit to add: Oh, and 2016 is probably a terrible time to try and start up in a field like protocol analyzers, that depends mainly on corporate investment in test equipment. Perhaps as you've been busy with your work you haven't spent much time reading economics news lately? To summarize: in 2016 the world appears to be sliding into a new financial crisis, predicted by many to be much worse than the 2008 events. I'm sure no one here wants to read a long discussion of why. But for you, I'd suggest spending some time reading sites such as http://www.zerohedge.com/

Perhaps you might consider staying in 'small, surviving' mode for a while more, and use that time to build your business networking skills, till it's clearer how the economy will go?

As a consultant, I have a direct view into the economic well-being of the US economy. Interestingly, between 2000 to 2007, the consulting market was very good but stopped abruptly at the end of 2007, about 6 months before the stock market plunge. It makes sense because when companies stop seeing gold at the end of the rainbow, and instead start seeing rain clouds overhead, they have little hurry hiring consultants to finish their projects sooner. The number of consulting requests have never come back to the pre-2007 level.

I have been deep into economic analysis the last time around and know all about Dow/gold ratios, the debt-pyramid to the tune of 100's of trillions of dollars, credit default swaps and all the rest. One thing I've learnt is that the federal reserve has a printing press in the basement and they would never let things get out of hand like on 2008. As Bernanke said, dollars dropped from Helicopters... One problem is that the interest rates are already at zero so not much they can do on that side. I used to be a subscriber to Mark Faber's newsletter, which was an interesting read, to say the least!

I do get sufficient requests for consulting projects not having to get a job so I could continue the bootstrapping of ITIC until times improve but that doesn't solve the problem with far too long product development cycles...

[Galenbo]

I definitely need more resources on the marketing side - luckily this can quite easily be hired. Essentially, to create a good web-presence, have good artwork, datasheets etc.

Are you sure about the underlined part?

It's easy to hire "a" frontpage-monkey, like it's easy to hire "a" pcb designer.
But you want it to be continually growing, I would expect you need a high-potential here, the guy/girl that also manages every change,sees new opportunities and it able to communicate about that.

You say to have a number of distributors in a number of countries.
No one there that is ready for the next step?

[John_ITIC]

I definitely need more resources on the marketing side - luckily this can quite easily be hired. Essentially, to create a good web-presence, have good artwork, datasheets etc.

Are you sure about the underlined part?

It's easy to hire "a" frontpage-monkey, like it's easy to hire "a" pcb designer.
But you want it to be continually growing, I would expect you need a high-potential here, the guy/girl that also manages every change,sees new opportunities and it able to communicate about that.

You say to have a number of distributors in a number of countries.
No one there that is ready for the next step?

Well, to clarify: I more meant a graphics designer that can create nice looking artwork for web sites and marketing material. The actual marketing strategy is something I can do fairly well myself. Regarding distributors; they do little more than list the products on their web site. Nobody is going to do sales call for these kinds of low-cost instruments. Distributors are interesting because each country have their own main distributor such that customers know where to go - this is why I started my other "distributors" thread: to get some more exposure internationally.

[Galenbo]

... top of the line engineering skills (consulting level) and see the value of that as a better contributor to the business than whatever business skills I may have time to learn. Therefore, being distracted by the business side will definitely hurt the engineering side.

... development cycle is still too slow. Therefore, the bottle-neck is really the engineering side and not the business side. Possibly, I could attract enough funding to hire additional engineering resources...

I think in your product range, your business man needs to know everything about engineering too, because your customers do.

Maybe a combination is the solution?
You need an extra engineer, so hire a guy that is 3/4 engineer, 1/4 salesman, do the engineering together, do the sales/marketing/business together.

[TerraHertz]

I have been deep into economic analysis the last time around and know all about Dow/gold ratios, the debt-pyramid to the tune of 100's of trillions of dollars, credit default swaps and all the rest.

Good, my apologies for assuming you might be unaware of such things.

One thing I've learnt is that the federal reserve has a printing press in the basement and they would never let things get out of hand like on 2008. As Bernanke said, dollars dropped from Helicopters...

Otoh, if you think the FED is any part of the solution, or capable of keeping the exponential debt Pandora's box closed, that they learned any lessons last time round, and that unlimited money creation will have useful results, (or indeed that the existing political structures _want_ to preserve the US economy as opposed to destroying it), then perhaps a _little_ more reading is in order.
 

One problem is that the interest rates are already at zero so not much they can do on that side. I used to be a subscriber to Mark Faber's newsletter, which was an interesting read, to say the least!

They (alternate economics sources, gold bugs, Austrians, etc) are all fun reads. Plenty of free ones, no need to spend money on subscriptions.

I do get sufficient requests for consulting projects not having to get a job so I could continue the bootstrapping of ITIC until times improve but that doesn't solve the problem with far too long product development cycles...

Can you overlap project cycles? Also, can't modularize, to use common processing/UI sections, and only need to create custom HW&code for the protocol specific parts? (I didn't look at your products, forget I spoke if you already do this.)

[edavid]

The technical features of the products were the main selling points as well as the much lower price than competitors'.

This comes back to the same question... if your price is so much lower, why can't you raise it and give your distributors a decent discount?

[free_electron]

I second Smokey's advice. Steve Jobs was a lying, scheming, double-crossing, egotistical unpleasant bastard, and that's the last thing you need.

Well, these character traits are what got him ahead, apparently.

shafting Woz along the way... Read how he bilked Woz out of his share of 500$ when he sold a game to Atari.

On the other hand. Jobs got things done. Not like Apple today. I bought an ipad Pro over a month ago. i'm still waiting to see the pencil ... under jobs this would have been unthinkable. He would have kicked his supply chain managers so hard in their collective assses they'd have bounced several times between the ceiling and the floor.

[MT]

author=John_ITIC link=topic=61420.msg844768#msg844768 date=1453087099]

I second Smokey's advice. Steve Jobs was a lying, scheming, double-crossing, egotistical unpleasant bastard, and that's the last thing you need.

Well, these character traits are what got him ahead, apparently. I would never want to work for such a person but I can see how it will be beneficial to work with such a person.

Dont really get it why you adore such a personality as Jobs so much you even start a thread in his name and want one in your company! It's an myth/illusion, you'r better out not employing a narcissist/asshole unless you are a narcissist/asshole your self and as such knows your partners mindset! You need a John Scully type slightely less of an asshole!

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34188602
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3222400/Steve-Jobs-didn-t-know-technology-just-wanted-important-Steve-Wozniak-claims-business-partner-played-no-role-design-early-Apple-devices.html

There's a tendency to mythologise successful people after their deaths. To what degree have we seen that with Jobs?
Oh my gosh, even while Steve was alive [so was] the myth.

He became our hero because we have our iPhones, and he saw the way the world was going to evolve much earlier than others, so we love him.

But the mythology, even while he was alive, was extended back to make him that person from day one.
[People] try and make him a lot more right about things than he was and ignore what some of the real facts were.

The most incredible scene in the Sorkin movie is between Steve Jobs and [ex-Apple chief executive] John Sculley.
It goes back and forth at two points in time [with them] saying different things that add up to where the company stood and the difference between the two of them. And it was really just a business difference.
See, the mythology is that Steve Jobs had this beautiful vision for the Macintosh and the board and John Sculley didn't buy into it.
No. Our entire company bought into that vision as the future for Apple.
It was just going to take at least three years to build until it could finally not lose money.
And John Sculley is the one who actually made the Macintosh successful because of believing in it.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/11/be-a-jerk-the-worst-business-lesson-from-the-steve-jobs-biography/249136/
The next batch of business books: The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Assholes, The One-Minute Asshole, and Who's The Asshole Who Moved My Cheese?
But such subtleties may be lost on CEOs, middle managers and wannabe masters of the universe who are currently devouring the Steve Jobs biography and thinking to themselves: "See! Steve Jobs was an asshole and he was one of the most successful businessmen on the planet. Maybe if I become an even bigger asshole I'll be successful like Steve."

This sort of flawed thinking -- call it asshole logic -- isn't something that's necessarily endorsed by Jobs's biographer.

"(Jobs) was not the world's greatest manager," Walter Isaacson said in a recent interview with 60 Minutes. "In fact, he could have been one of the world's worst managers."

But asshole logic, not surprisingly, tends to ignore facts that don't sanction one's own assholery. This distorted reasoning was already prevalent before Steve Jobs's death, and is only likely to spread as Isaacson's biography closes in on becoming the best-selling book of 2011. Five years ago, when Stanford professor of management science and engineering Robert Sutton was researching his book, The No Asshole Rule: Building a Civilized Workplace and Surviving One That Isn't, he ran across a disconcerting number of Silicon Valley leaders who believed that Steve Jobs was living proof that being an asshole boss was integral to building a great company.

Sutton's counter-thesis was that assholes--which he defined as those who deliberately make co-workers feel bad about themselves and who focus their hostility on the less powerful--poison the workplace and induce qualified employees to quit and are therefore bad for business, regardless of the asshole's individual talent or effectiveness.

When Sutton published an article in the Harvard Business Review advancing his theory, he was amazed at the reaction. He had published other articles in the Review, many of them longer and better researched, but nothing provoked the response that his asshole article did. Sutton received well over 1,000 emails, and gathered countless horror stories, including one about a worker undergoing chemotherapy whose boss told him he was "a wimp and a pussy."

What an asshole!

Sutton decided to expand the article into a book, and wound up interviewing dozens of Silicon Valley leaders and insiders. When Sutton would advance the notion that assholes are bad for business, one person after another had the same reaction: "What about Steve Jobs?"

"Even people who worked with Jobs told me that they'd seen him make people cry many times, but that 80 percent of the time he was right, " says Sutton. "It is troubling that there's this notion in our culture that if you're a winner, it's okay to be an asshole."

So many people advanced Steve Jobs as evidence that asshole CEOs build better companies that Sutton somewhat reluctantly included a chapter in his book on "The Virtues of Assholes," with Steve Jobs as Exhibit A. There is some evidence that "status displays" by aggressive bosses can motivate workers and give slackers a kick in the pants. And effective jerk bosses usually aren't assholes all the time, they're able to turn on the charm when the situation demands it, something Steve Jobs, by most accounts, was very good at doing. And it helps for companies to have skilled subordinate executives that are good at cleaning up after the Asshole-in-Chief, much like the sad-faced men carrying shovels who walk behind circus elephants.

But Sutton's book makes clear that for the most part, assholes are bad for the bottom line, to say nothing of the human toll they exact. There are plenty of very successful companies that aren't led by assholes - Google, Virgin Atlantic, Procter & Gamble and Southwest Airlines among them. Likewise, there are legions of assholes who lead companies that aren't successful, in part due to their own bad behavior.

With the death and canonization of Steve Jobs and the emergence of the Jobs biography as a kind of sacred text for managers, the ranks of bosses who see Bad Steve's nastier traits as something to imitate is liable to swell. It's unlikely the book will make despots out of thoughtful, fair-minded middle managers. It's far more probable that it will turn bosses who are already assholes into even bigger assholes, raising the temperature of the worst actors so that they become that most combustible of workplace figures, the flaming asshole.

Already, the web is full of articles that hold up Steve Jobs as the model of how to lead and succeed in life, with titles such as "Ten Leadership Lessons from the Steve Jobs School of Management" and "21 Life Lessons from Steve Jobs." Most of these works prefer to focus on Good Steve, but it may not be long until business book authors hone in on the timeless lessons to be drawn from Bad Steve's asshole ways. The titles write themselves: The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Assholes. The One-Minute Asshole. Who's The Asshole Who Moved My Cheese?

The fact is, Steve Jobs didn't succeed because he was an asshole. He succeeded because he was Steve Jobs. He had an uncanny sixth sense about what consumers wanted, an unmatched ability to adapt existing technology and turn it into something new, and a commitment to quality that turned ordinary Apple customers into fans for life. Being an asshole was part of the Steve package, but it wasn't essential to his success. But that's not a message most of the assholes in the corner offices want to hear.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-jerk-2011-10?op=1


Why was Jobs such a rude person?
Isaacson asked Jobs' best friend Jony Ive what he thought. Here's his response:

I once asked him why he gets so mad about stuff. He said, "But I don't stay mad." He has this very childish ability to get really worked up about something, and it doesn't stay with him at all. But, there are other times, I think honestly, when he's very frustrated, and his way to achieve catharsis is to hurt somebody. And I think he feels he has a liberty and license to do that. The normal rules of social engagement, he feels, don't apply to him. Because of how very sensitive he is, he knows exactly how to efficiently and effectively hurt someone. And he does do that.

[John_ITIC]

... top of the line engineering skills (consulting level) and see the value of that as a better contributor to the business than whatever business skills I may have time to learn. Therefore, being distracted by the business side will definitely hurt the engineering side.

... development cycle is still too slow. Therefore, the bottle-neck is really the engineering side and not the business side. Possibly, I could attract enough funding to hire additional engineering resources...

I think in your product range, your business man needs to know everything about engineering too, because your customers do.

Maybe a combination is the solution?
You need an extra engineer, so hire a guy that is 3/4 engineer, 1/4 salesman, do the engineering together, do the sales/marketing/business together.

Yes, that would be perfect but I can only assume that it will be a very mammoth effort to find such a person. I have thought about creating some kind of Internet-based collaboration, perhaps via the many good engineers here at EEVBlog, but the issue always comes back to trust and value of such contribution. One thing I know is that people will not work for nothing, while an entrepreneur works for (close to) nothing until a bigger payday (hopefully) appears in the future. Few people are willing to take a chance, which is why most get stuck in a JOB (acronym stands for Just Over Broke)...

[John_ITIC]

Otoh, if you think the FED is any part of the solution, or capable of keeping the exponential debt Pandora's box closed, that they learned any lessons last time round, and that unlimited money creation will have useful results, (or indeed that the existing political structures _want_ to preserve the US economy as opposed to destroying it), then perhaps a _little_ more reading is in order.

No, I don't think they are part of the solution but they always manage to keep papering over the problem with more liquidity. We are soon to witness QE4 (printing money to prop up bankrupt quasi-government banking institutions; in fact paid by a lowered purchase power of everyone with assets in dollars, due to inflation). I have failed to predict a collapsing stock market twice, only to see it go to new heights. I'm not betting on that again but I agree that the economic realities will not be fixed by the fed. The fact is that the prosperity the last 40 years have been fueled by a speculative credit bubble of biblical proportions and, as the economists say, we have spent tomorrows prosperity today. After the 40 year party may come 40 years of hang-over...

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=QE3
 

Can you overlap project cycles? Also, can't modularize, to use common processing/UI sections, and only need to create custom HW&code for the protocol specific parts? (I didn't look at your products, forget I spoke if you already do this.)

Yes, a lot of the technology in my PCI Express Protocol Analyzer (2.5 GHz) could quite easily be reused in my USB 3.0 Protocol Analyzer (5 Gbps). I got bit by the USB 3.0 transceivers from TI not working as advertised. It took months of debugging, dealing with frustration due to useless TI online support etc. I actually got my new revised PCB from the board house today so I will hand-assemble via reflow oven and solder iron. If the new board workarounds work properly, I can have the USB 3.0 protocol analyzer ready in a couple of months, which would postpone need for investors.

[John_ITIC]

The technical features of the products were the main selling points as well as the much lower price than competitors'.

This comes back to the same question... if your price is so much lower, why can't you raise it and give your distributors a decent discount?

No, can't be done. Lacking name recognition (Agilent, LeCroy and the others), why would you want to pay the same price for a lesser known brand. Would you buy Siglent or Rigel if the price was the same as Agilent/Keysight or LeCroy? I wouldn't think so.

Currently, my prices are about 30% lower than the lowest prices competitor and about 50% lower than most competitors. This is a common business problem: how to price the product such that engineering follow-on products is possible? The solution is often massive amount of marketing for mediocre products, commonly seen with American products (think cars) since high-cost manufacturing and labor costs. With lower-wage countries taking more and more of the highly engineered product development and manufacturing, it is only a matter of time before *all* jobs to these countries.

[John_ITIC]

I second Smokey's advice. Steve Jobs was a lying, scheming, double-crossing, egotistical unpleasant bastard, and that's the last thing you need.

Well, these character traits are what got him ahead, apparently.

shafting Woz along the way... Read how he bilked Woz out of his share of 500$ when he sold a game to Atari.

On the other hand. Jobs got things done. Not like Apple today. I bought an ipad Pro over a month ago. i'm still waiting to see the pencil ... under jobs this would have been unthinkable. He would have kicked his supply chain managers so hard in their collective assses they'd have bounced several times between the ceiling and the floor.

Yes, I know the Apple story well, have read Wozniak's book etc. It is sad but business is war. If you want to win you have to have an unfair advantage or simply be willing to abuse the troops to perform better than the enemy. I don't like it anymore than anyone else but what is the solution...?

[John_ITIC]

Dont really get it why you adore such a personality as Jobs so much you even start a thread in his name and want one in your company! It's an myth/illusion, you'r better out not employing a narcissist/asshole unless you are a narcissist/asshole your self and as such knows your partners mindset! You need a John Scully type slightely less of an asshole!

Easy for you to say since you live in a country where others are paying for your school, kids education, healthcare etc. You can sit on your rump in Sweden and still get all the same social services as someone killing themselves trying to get ahead. That's why so few are trying to get ahead. I know, I'm born and grew up in Sweden, moved to the US about 15 years ago. Here in the US, we have to work hard or we end up on the street.

Now, I hardly adore Jobs, I agree based on available information that he was a hard-core hustler and would have no patience for anyone standing in his way. Business is war. You either lose or you win. Take your pick. Calling me an *a******* because I'm asking where to find a driven business partner is hardly constructive, nor very polite...

[dannyf]

Here in the US, we have to work hard or we end up on the street.

I prefer that as well. Socialism is just so suffocating - look at European economies if anyone disagrees.

[Smokey]

I second Smokey's advice. Steve Jobs was a lying, scheming, double-crossing, egotistical unpleasant bastard, and that's the last thing you need.

Well, these character traits are what got him ahead, apparently.

shafting Woz along the way... Read how he bilked Woz out of his share of 500$ when he sold a game to Atari.

On the other hand. Jobs got things done. Not like Apple today. I bought an ipad Pro over a month ago. i'm still waiting to see the pencil ... under jobs this would have been unthinkable. He would have kicked his supply chain managers so hard in their collective assses they'd have bounced several times between the ceiling and the floor.

Yes, I know the Apple story well, have read Wozniak's book etc. It is sad but business is war. If you want to win you have to have an unfair advantage or simply be willing to abuse the troops to perform better than the enemy. I don't like it anymore than anyone else but what is the solution...?

Wow... Just wow... I hope you find the Steve Jobs like guy you are looking for.  Sounds like you deserve him.

[cdev]

Narcissist-run workplaces (and many countries as many/most politicians are NPDs) end up being a dysfunctional mess, and other companies {countries|communities} that aren't run by NPDs will leave them in the dust.

Stress causes major damage to health, too. For example, its clearly neurotoxic, it gradually shrinks the hippocampus and amygdala, leaving people unable to think clearly.  So treating people like that is like cutting off your own nose to spite your face.

[John_ITIC]

I second Smokey's advice. Steve Jobs was a lying, scheming, double-crossing, egotistical unpleasant bastard, and that's the last thing you need.

Well, these character traits are what got him ahead, apparently.

shafting Woz along the way... Read how he bilked Woz out of his share of 500$ when he sold a game to Atari.

On the other hand. Jobs got things done. Not like Apple today. I bought an ipad Pro over a month ago. i'm still waiting to see the pencil ... under jobs this would have been unthinkable. He would have kicked his supply chain managers so hard in their collective assses they'd have bounced several times between the ceiling and the floor.

Yes, I know the Apple story well, have read Wozniak's book etc. It is sad but business is war. If you want to win you have to have an unfair advantage or simply be willing to abuse the troops to perform better than the enemy. I don't like it anymore than anyone else but what is the solution...?

Wow... Just wow... I hope you find the Steve Jobs like guy you are looking for.  Sounds like you deserve him.

Wow? Ever played sports? Or been responsible for actually generating business? Or perhaps always been working for someone else, shielded from the reality of business? Hard work is unfortunately a reality. Whoever has the most will to win, mostly wins. I don't say that I would "abuse the troops" (I don't because I do all the hard work myself) but it is a fact that this is exactly what made Apple so successful. Without Jobs at the helm, driving his engineers hard, Apple would not have survived. Just see what happened when Jobs was forced out, leaving Sculley at the helm, the company was weeks away from bankruptcy when Jobs came back and whipped some efficiency back into the place.

Trust me, I'd rather take it easy, relying on someone else to have responsibility but that's not how reality works.

Edit: I'm just a lone engineer, competing with features and cost. I'm not a corporate type nor some abusive slave-driver. But I do know what the reality of business is. If one want to get ahead in business one must play hard. I'm not such a person, which is why the thread title is what it is. And I would NOT mind getting my behind kicked by a Jobs person to get things done. People are lazy by nature (including myself) and perform exactly to the expectations put upon them.

[John_ITIC]

Narcissist-run workplaces (and many countries as many/most politicians are NPDs) end up being a dysfunctional mess, and other companies {countries|communities} that aren't run by NPDs will leave them in the dust.

Stress causes major damage to health, too. For example, its clearly neurotoxic, it gradually shrinks the hippocampus and amygdala, leaving people unable to think clearly.  So treating people like that is like cutting off your own nose to spite your face.

Yes, Russia left USA in the dust for sure. And Apple turned out to be failure under Jobs leadership.

[free_electron]

the trick is : never become personal. It is ok to yell at a person if he doesn't do his stuff on time. Calling him an idiot is a no-no though.
Some people need a good yell to kick em into action. Nothing wrong with 'venting' and getting all excited and worked up. Good brainstorm sessions always erupt in a shouting match ( but 'good' shouting' , as in excited or in defending ones idea. 

you have to understand that in a professional setting it is never personal.