Author Topic: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem  (Read 10843 times)

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Online tooki

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #175 on: January 12, 2018, 07:31:37 pm »
Every person who hits this bridge is running a red light. They should be taken off the road before they kill someone.

Mr Scram provides an excellent example as to why people hate engineers - because he, personally, is ignorant of any problems, it must mean those problems can't exist.
It's hard to brake rapidly with a truckload of stuff.
The speed limit there is just 25mph.

It's hard to brake rapidly with a truckload of stuff.
If you run a red light, FIVE seconds after it turned red, because you could not break then you are driving way to fast.
Exactly!!

The traffic light doesn't immediately turn red if the overheight warning is activated.
Obviously not, since it has to give time for traffic to clear the intersection. But the sensors are apparently blocks ahead. It's not as though the sensor is a few feet ahead of the intersection.

Simpler would be for the rental companies to put a sign prominently in the rental vehicles indicating the height of the unloaded vehicle, so the driver is aware of this being a large vehicle with restrictions on routes.
When I've rented panel trucks, they've had the height printed in a few spots. Pretty sure it was on a sticker right on the dashboard somewhere. (It's been a loooong time, so I don't remember exactly.)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 07:33:25 pm by tooki »
 

Offline ez24

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #176 on: January 12, 2018, 08:37:46 pm »
Will definitely visit this meme place in short future.

Be sure to visit in a Ryder truck.  Document the warnings etc.  Install a dash cam and go for it.  As far as I know there are no dash cam videos on the crashes.  Even get a camera on you as the driver.  To avoid criticism go the speed limit.  For video effects put a heavy load in the back of the truck so the front will flip up higher.  There are so many potential things you could do for the benefit of mankind. 

Plus aren't you going to be an electrical railroad designer?  If so maybe you could work this in somehow towards your PHd?  I do not know if the tracks are electrical.   Ah ha - time it so a train is going over the bridge.  I have not seen a train.  Oh so many things only you could do.  Do you have to do a thesis, if so what is it on?  Electrical train safety?  How about a sensor that stops the train when a truck hits the bridge and you can test it by hitting the bridge in a truck.
You could become a world famous expert on trucks hitting train bridges.


One warning that no one has come up with - audible warning like a train horn ?




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Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #177 on: January 12, 2018, 09:32:48 pm »
Simpler would be for the rental companies to put a sign prominently in the rental vehicles indicating the height of the unloaded vehicle, so the driver is aware of this being a large vehicle with restrictions on routes. Then again, most time the renters probably did not take the full insurance option, as it is a big part of a single day rental price, and often is not shown in the advertising for the prices, and thus they are liable for all accident costs.

From discussion on the comments on the page there is a strong likelihood the rental companies come out ahead, older vehicles hitting the bridge get written off, and the driver has to pay for a replacement vehicle as compensation, unless they took the insurance, which the rental company then use as payment on a new, higher value, rental unit. Newer vehicles will be repaired though, still coming out with a new body on it. As most are generally out of state that hit, or day rentals going through, the locals obviously are well aware of the limitations of the bridge, even though there is a municipal bus route that goes under it the bus is definitely low enough to clear it.

By me there is a double deck tour bus that runs regular, the metro has trimmed the trees to allow clearance, though when they ran the route the other way they did do quit a lot of large branch removal.

I have rented a number of these.  They all have prominent height indications posted in a few places around the vehicle.  Of course they do tend to get lost in the warnings about what fuel type, speed limits, weight limits, backing restrictions, cancer causing chemicals and the like.

The additional problem with this warning is since it is painted on, it obviously relates to the nominal height of the vehicle design.  Nominal height plus some margin whatever they choose it to be.  I have no idea how that relates to the actual height of the individual vehicles. 
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #178 on: January 12, 2018, 10:01:35 pm »
Thinking about this again. In the UK, an HGV (Heavy Goods Vehicle) licence would needed to drive a vehicle that size (I don't believe this is the only country), so accidents like that happen less frequently. I'm not suggesting the US should take that path of course: the roads are much smaller over here.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #179 on: January 12, 2018, 10:12:04 pm »
In the US we have CDLs for driving commercial vehicles, but as far as I know that's more about the usage of the vehicle than the size. If you want to drive a bus hauling passengers or a truck hauling freight you need a CDL. As far as I know there is no special requirement if you want to drive yourself around in an old bus or rent a big truck for personal use.
 

Offline MarkS

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #180 on: January 12, 2018, 10:45:44 pm »
In the US we have CDLs for driving commercial vehicles, but as far as I know that's more about the usage of the vehicle than the size. If you want to drive a bus hauling passengers or a truck hauling freight you need a CDL. As far as I know there is no special requirement if you want to drive yourself around in an old bus or rent a big truck for personal use.

It depends on the loaded weight or number of passengers. I believe that a CDL is required for vehicles with a gross weight of 26,001 pounds or more and passenger vehicles when hauling 15 or more passengers.
 

Offline Nusa

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #181 on: January 13, 2018, 12:14:12 am »
In the US we have CDLs for driving commercial vehicles, but as far as I know that's more about the usage of the vehicle than the size. If you want to drive a bus hauling passengers or a truck hauling freight you need a CDL. As far as I know there is no special requirement if you want to drive yourself around in an old bus or rent a big truck for personal use.

It depends on the loaded weight or number of passengers. I believe that a CDL is required for vehicles with a gross weight of 26,001 pounds or more and passenger vehicles when hauling 15 or more passengers.

Generally correct. The administration of licenses is handled at the state level, so there are 50 different sets of rules. In the case of commercial licenses they're pretty much the same, with appropriate knowledge tests based on the vehicles driven, since there are overriding federal standards for commercial vehicles and drivers. So most of those rental box trucks in the videos are light enough to not require commercial licenses to drive when those drivers are not engaged in commerce.

The big loophole is when you have NON-commercial vehicles, particularly recreational vehicles. Most states will allow you to drive that 40 foot, 40000 pound, air brake vehicle, while towing a car, with absolutely no extra training whatsoever. Note that this category can include former commercial vehicles like Greyhound buses and Semis!
 

Offline james_s

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #182 on: January 13, 2018, 12:21:22 am »
The big loophole is when you have NON-commercial vehicles, particularly recreational vehicles. Most states will allow you to drive that 40 foot, 40000 pound, air brake vehicle, while towing a car, with absolutely no extra training whatsoever. Note that this category can include former commercial vehicles like Greyhound buses and Semis!

That is a bit scary, although there seem to be surprisingly few incidents. Perhaps it's down to the relative scarcity of such vehicles. I did know a friend of a friend who had an old transit bus and another who had a school bus but relatively few people can afford a gigantic heavy RV. In all those cases it was not exactly a daily driver.
 

Offline Someone

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #183 on: January 13, 2018, 01:03:06 am »
In the US we have CDLs for driving commercial vehicles, but as far as I know that's more about the usage of the vehicle than the size. If you want to drive a bus hauling passengers or a truck hauling freight you need a CDL. As far as I know there is no special requirement if you want to drive yourself around in an old bus or rent a big truck for personal use.

It depends on the loaded weight or number of passengers. I believe that a CDL is required for vehicles with a gross weight of 26,001 pounds or more and passenger vehicles when hauling 15 or more passengers.
For the metric (majority) thats 11.7 tonne, 11,700 kg. For comparison in Australia the vehicle weight limit before requiring a higher (commercial type) licence is 4,500kg, EU is harmonised at 3,500kg but with some exemptions on a country by country basis:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_goods_vehicle
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #184 on: January 13, 2018, 02:21:54 am »
For the metric (majority) thats 11.7 tonne, 11,700 kg. For comparison in Australia the vehicle weight limit before requiring a higher (commercial type) licence is 4,500kg, EU is harmonised at 3,500kg but with some exemptions on a country by country basis:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_goods_vehicle

Anybody who passed a class B (manual car) test in the UK before, I think, 1997 gets a 'grandfathered-in' right to drive class C1 (7.5 tonnes) and C1+E vehicles (C1 with trailer - total 8.25 tonnes).

The odd thing about this exception is that it goes with the individual person's license (which is a harmonised European one, a least for a few months more) and so an older UK driver can take advantage of the UK exception in other European countries that don't permit this for their own drivers - a peculiar arrangement, but that's how it was done.
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Offline MarkS

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #185 on: January 13, 2018, 07:31:46 am »
In the US we have CDLs for driving commercial vehicles, but as far as I know that's more about the usage of the vehicle than the size. If you want to drive a bus hauling passengers or a truck hauling freight you need a CDL. As far as I know there is no special requirement if you want to drive yourself around in an old bus or rent a big truck for personal use.

It depends on the loaded weight or number of passengers. I believe that a CDL is required for vehicles with a gross weight of 26,001 pounds or more and passenger vehicles when hauling 15 or more passengers.

Generally correct. The administration of licenses is handled at the state level, so there are 50 different sets of rules. In the case of commercial licenses they're pretty much the same, with appropriate knowledge tests based on the vehicles driven, since there are overriding federal standards for commercial vehicles and drivers. So most of those rental box trucks in the videos are light enough to not require commercial licenses to drive when those drivers are not engaged in commerce.

The big loophole is when you have NON-commercial vehicles, particularly recreational vehicles. Most states will allow you to drive that 40 foot, 40000 pound, air brake vehicle, while towing a car, with absolutely no extra training whatsoever. Note that this category can include former commercial vehicles like Greyhound buses and Semis!

Correct, and that is where it gets tricky. While the states issue the licences, they do so under federal law. I could buy a 45 foot Prevost bus and turn it into an RV and drive it with a class D license, but God help me if I bypass a weigh station or get a state trooper that only sees a bus and pops me for not having a CDL! Federal guidelines are a little unclear on this matter. It's complicated as the requirements for needing a CDL are based on weight and/or number of passengers. A 40,000# RV that can only seat six people runs afoul of the weight requirements, even though it is well below the minimum passenger requirement.

I have the 2018 FMSA rule book, but it's a dense and boring read. When I get the time, I'll try to see if there is any clarification on this matter.

Personally it doesn't matter to me. I'm a semi driver with a class A CDL and can drive pretty much anything that doesn't run on rails or have wings.
 

Offline station240

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #186 on: January 14, 2018, 07:31:32 am »
Video showing the approach to the bridge. (2015)
 
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Offline Moshly

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #187 on: January 17, 2018, 10:45:56 am »
In South Melbourne, we have a slightly different problem ->



 :-//
 
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Offline Cubdriver

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #188 on: January 17, 2018, 02:12:17 pm »
He didn't seem to be going insanely fast based on the bow wave (tough to tell from a near head on camera angle), but why on earth would he not have stood on the brake pedal the instant the nose of the car began to submarine?  It looked like he tried to just keep going.   :popcorn: :palm:

Some people's kids...

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Offline floobydust

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #189 on: January 17, 2018, 10:03:07 pm »
I like how he keeps turning the steering wheel, to do a U-turn with his U-boat  :-DD
 

Offline timb

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #190 on: January 18, 2018, 03:59:06 am »
He didn't seem to be going insanely fast based on the bow wave (tough to tell from a near head on camera angle), but why on earth would he not have stood on the brake pedal the instant the nose of the car began to submarine?  It looked like he tried to just keep going.   :popcorn: :palm:

Some people's kids...

-Pat

It looks to me like he almost did, what we call in the US a rolling stop (or California Stop), before speeding up a bit and hitting the water. I can’t imagine he was going more than 10mph or so.

As for why he kept going? In for a penny, in for a pound! Once the back popped up, he was screwed anyway, so he might as well keep going. (Though, the car may have come out from that alright; it looks like the firewall is just above the waterline, so the interior of the car would have stayed relatively dry. The air intake would be at the bottom of the windshield, which is also above the water. As long as the engine doesn’t suck in water, it can run submerged for short periods.)
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic; e.g., Cheez Whiz, Hot Dogs and RF.
 

Offline Someone

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #191 on: January 18, 2018, 07:08:06 am »
He didn't seem to be going insanely fast based on the bow wave (tough to tell from a near head on camera angle), but why on earth would he not have stood on the brake pedal the instant the nose of the car began to submarine?  It looked like he tried to just keep going.   :popcorn: :palm:

Some people's kids...

-Pat
Though, the car may have come out from that alright; it looks like the firewall is just above the waterline, so the interior of the car would have stayed relatively dry. The air intake would be at the bottom of the windshield, which is also above the water. As long as the engine doesn’t suck in water, it can run submerged for short periods.
Perhaps on your side of the world with its peculiar cars but most vehicles of that era have the air intake low down in front of the wheel arch. You can actually pick out the specific year model of that car and verify if you like....
 

Offline Cubdriver

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #192 on: January 18, 2018, 08:09:30 am »
He didn't seem to be going insanely fast based on the bow wave (tough to tell from a near head on camera angle), but why on earth would he not have stood on the brake pedal the instant the nose of the car began to submarine?  It looked like he tried to just keep going.   :popcorn: :palm:

Some people's kids...

-Pat
Though, the car may have come out from that alright; it looks like the firewall is just above the waterline, so the interior of the car would have stayed relatively dry. The air intake would be at the bottom of the windshield, which is also above the water. As long as the engine doesn’t suck in water, it can run submerged for short periods.
Perhaps on your side of the world with its peculiar cars but most vehicles of that era have the air intake low down in front of the wheel arch. You can actually pick out the specific year model of that car and verify if you like....

Yeah, I wouldn't be too surprised if it inhaled a nice slug of water.  Hydro lock is a bitch, too.  How're your bent con rods?   :o

-Pat
If it jams, force it.  If it breaks, you needed a new one anyway...
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #193 on: January 18, 2018, 08:26:46 am »
He didn't seem to be going insanely fast based on the bow wave (tough to tell from a near head on camera angle), but why on earth would he not have stood on the brake pedal the instant the nose of the car began to submarine?  It looked like he tried to just keep going.   :popcorn: :palm:

Some people's kids...

-Pat
Most people don't realize that a car can start floating in as little as 1 foot or 30 centimeters of water. You lose traction and quickly get yourself in more trouble as you lose control. A diesel can keep running in water for a bit, unless you literally flood it, but the electronics of a petrol car are very vulnerable to water. As soon as the engine cuts out it's game over as the water enters the exhaust. Cars aren't exactly watertight either, so the interior fills.

It's generally bad news for a car to become waterlogged, it's typically a complete write-off. A lot of insurance companies won't even take a close look at a car that's been sitting in water. Even if you manage to rescue the car, it can be hard to prevent mould from destroying the interior. Obviously, it can easily cost you your life too. You certainly wouldn't be the first to drown that way.
 

Offline Moshly

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #194 on: January 18, 2018, 09:13:29 am »
This happens nearly every time it floods.
Notice (in the yt video) the local in the background with the fishing rod  :-DD

Some hit it at speed




Others




StreetView ->
https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.8320703,144.9550929,3a,75y,265.4h,88.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTCwyDsyDRYT9r5oX0k-Hiw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?dcr=0
 

Offline james_s

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #195 on: January 18, 2018, 06:53:14 pm »
The air intake below the windshield is for the HVAC system. The engine air intake is separate, near the air filter box which is normally in one of the front corners of the car under the hood.
 

Offline ivan747

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #196 on: January 18, 2018, 07:59:29 pm »
The first things that comes to mind...

 - the actual bridge (the thing you are trying to avoid) is incredibly inconspicuous. Yes there are some badly scraped yellow stripes on the protection bar, but the side of the bridge itself is black - why not make the whole side of the thing reflective Bright and conspicuous.

- The signage is confusing. The driver  is probably still trying to understand the grammar of "OVERHEIGHT MUST TURN" when he hits the bridge.

- The actual height limit sign is small in comparison to the above one, the driver probably doesn't even notice it while trying to decode the other one. If you asked him, he probably wouldn't have even registered the figures.

- It's adjacent to a lights controlled junction - lots of other lights, it just looks like some overhead hung lights (US style), the dark bridge fades into the background.


The bar hung on chains is common here - entrances to car parks etc. The solution doesn't have to be active.
All of this is often ignored. It boils down to making the signs visible and understandable. If you notice, the One Way signs are always placed so that you find them when you’re looking to turn the wrong way.


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Offline timb

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #197 on: January 18, 2018, 11:52:23 pm »
He didn't seem to be going insanely fast based on the bow wave (tough to tell from a near head on camera angle), but why on earth would he not have stood on the brake pedal the instant the nose of the car began to submarine?  It looked like he tried to just keep going.   :popcorn: :palm:

Some people's kids...

-Pat
Though, the car may have come out from that alright; it looks like the firewall is just above the waterline, so the interior of the car would have stayed relatively dry. The air intake would be at the bottom of the windshield, which is also above the water. As long as the engine doesn’t suck in water, it can run submerged for short periods.
Perhaps on your side of the world with its peculiar cars but most vehicles of that era have the air intake low down in front of the wheel arch. You can actually pick out the specific year model of that car and verify if you like....

I should have been more clear, I was talking about two separate things.

A lot of cars have the HVAC input at the base of the windshield. Obviously it’s designed to drain water (rain, splashes, etc.) but if you submerge it, it will end up in the cabin.

The engine’s air intake can be in numerous places, including the wheel well (more common on smaller front wheel drive cars), just sitting under the hood (with a conical filter, also a common aftermarket mod with ricers), slots in the top of the hood itself (you see this mainly with supercharged cars) and directly behind the grill (rear wheel drive sedans and trucks).
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Online Avacee

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #198 on: November 09, 2019, 12:48:06 am »
Apologies to reviving a dormant thread but those familiar with it may like to know the 11'8" bridge problem has been "solved" by raising it 8 inches to 12' 4".

The stretch of track over the bridge was inclined so it raised to be level with another bridge a short distance away to one side and inclined slightly steeper the other side.

The good news is that larger lorries (US standard 13'6" / 4.11m) can still have their roofs ripped off along with RV's, large air con units, several common makes of hire/rental trucks, etc - all is not lost  >:D >:D

BBC News article (1:03)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-50340631/north-carolina-can-opener-bridge-raised

The chap making the next 2 videos is Jurgen Henn who setup the original webcam and the 11foot8 website and provided us with much amusement and  :palm: :palm: moments
Preparing the raise (8:56)


... and the raise (8.42)

« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 12:54:11 am by Avacee »
 
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Offline jonovid

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Re: How would you use electronics to solve the 11' 8" bridge problem
« Reply #199 on: November 09, 2019, 04:26:01 am »
as outlawing driver stupidity is impossible with out replacement with AI
so that leaves changing the level of either the road going under, or the height level of the railway bridge
one solution is to have the AI on the bridge with something more attention grabbing thin just regular traffic lights.
including monitoring all traffic intersections entering the bridge zone for vehicle height. with laser beams atop of street 
stobie poles. lasers act as vehicle height level detectors . two beams or sets of twin laser beams on the same
two poles ether side of the roadway would in theory prevent false trigging by say birds or a single laser failure.
once the height of all vehicles entering the zone is known, then any AI with the use of cameras and
imbedded in the road ground loops. to track an individual over height vehicle with the goal of stopping it.
by traffic lights and or traffic boom gates. the use of a type of AI would give the system flexibility in how to deal
with driver stupidity and other odd driver actions.  an example vehicles reversing up or blocking the road.
also any AI would communicate to the drivers by big electronic street side signs.  the cost of all this electronic infrastructure
needs to compared to the cost of fixing railway bridge level its self .
Hobby of evil genius      basic knowledge of electronics
 


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