HP goes FTDI

[zapta]

Beware, updating your HP printer firmware may block 3rd party ink.

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/09/hps-drm-sabotages-off-brand-printer-ink-cartridges-with-self-destruct-date/

[NiHaoMike]

HP has dramatically dropped in quality over the years, now they make a deliberate move to make their products even worse?

[linux-works]

such a customer-hostile move.

firmware and os 'updates' now have to be more carefully vetted (by the sysadmin, ie, YOU, the owner of the system) and not just automatically accepted.

oh wait, windows 10 leaves you in NO control of that, anymore.

(glad I don't use win10).

but all other systems still allow you to permit and deny updates, right?  (not 100% sure about apple, I'm not an apple person at all).

I know that linux does not force updates on you.  I have not once come across a purposeful hostile update via a linux update (for any vendor, and I've used most of them, past and present).

I stopped taking win7 updates on my windows systems.  never installed win8 or 10.  if my win7 system gets a problem, I restore from last good backup.  updates to windows boxes are more toxic than the supposed problem they claim to fix.

its really hard for me to accept a computer system that forces updates on you.  that's so wrong on so many levels.

[StuUK]

its really hard for me to accept a computer system that forces updates on you.  that's so wrong on so many levels.

100% agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BradC]

its really hard for me to accept a computer system that forces updates on you.  that's so wrong on so many levels.

I've just accepted that is the new reality and blocked it at the firewall.

As for HP products. I have an LJ2200, LJ5500 & DJ750C. I have service manuals, spare parts (and parts are still available for both laserjets). I won't be upgrading any time soon.

Old HP products were built to last. The new ones, not so much.

[TerraHertz]

Not to mention what the hell is a _printer_ doing calling home and requesting firmware updates? Imo this isn't even acceptable for full computers, but how can it possibly be justified for a printer?
HP really know how to shoot themselves in the foot. This is not going to be cashflow positive.

Also, what does FTDI mean? Urban dictionary doesn't know, and google thinks it's a Scottish company.

[BradC]

Also, what does FTDI mean? Urban dictionary doesn't know, and google thinks it's a Scottish company.

I think it was a reference to that Scottish company issuing driver updates that destroyed hardware. Not quite a valid comparison. Same, same but different.

When I'm bored I sit and watch tcpdump or wireshark on my firewall at home to see what random equipment on the network is trying to contact. The most disturbing was a set of new Hikvision cameras that phone home by default when you plug them in. Nice..

[alanb]

Its a reference to this topic.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/ftdi-driver-kills-fake-ftdi-ft232/

[amyk]

Fight back!

http://www.eddiem.com/photo/CIS/inkchip/chip.html
http://clp-300.blogspot.com/2009/03/how-to-program-your-permanent-reset.html
http://www.instructables.com/id/Reverse-Engineering-to-Emulate-Ink-Cartridges-for-/

3D printers apparently do the same thing too:
http://haveblue.org/?p=938

[Karel]

The comparison with FTDI is ridiculous. The replacement (non-HP) cartridges are not counterfeit.
They are clearly sold as another brand but aimed to be compatibel.
The counterfeit FTDI chips are sold as being genuine FTDI chips, that's a big difference that some people like to "forget" or blatantly ignore.

[dannyf]

"Beware, updating your HP printer firmware may block 3rd party ink."

Not that offensive, as long as it is clearly disclosed upfront.

Retroactively activating it on unsuspecting users is a different story.

HP is a good story of a company going from engineering as it's core competency to marketing as it's core competency.

Sadly the list of companies doing that is long.

[BradC]

"Beware, updating your HP printer firmware may block 3rd party ink."

Not that offensive, as long as it is clearly disclosed upfront.

Which it wasn't. The firmware has been gently pushed out over more than a year it's just the detonation date appears to have been Sept 13th 2016

Retroactively activating it on unsuspecting users is a different story.

Which is exactly what they did.

A couple of years ago my old man had a HP A3 inkjet that had cartridge expiry timers built in. The printer had no persistent RTC and it turned out relied on the Windows driver to pass it the time & date on every print job. We just hooked it up to a Linux laptop running CUPS and SAMBA, and that filtered the date from the Windows print job. Problem solved.

Unfortunately I don't think this one is as easy to get around.

[zapta]

its really hard for me to accept a computer system that forces updates on you.  that's so wrong on so many levels.

Our officejet 8600 plus printer is connected to our wifi LAN and thus can access the internet. Do they update on their own? Can I block it somehow?

[Jeff_Birt]

Anyone who has enough sense to use a printer realizes that when you buy a printer for $50 and the ink is nearly as much that the money is being made off the ink. To act all butt hurt because the printer manufacturer tries to make it difficult for you to use bootleg ink is silly. With bootleg ink/toner if it works for you that is great but the printer manufacturer has no obligation to make sure it continues to do so. I'm not against using bootleg printer supplies that work properly but I damn sure know that they may cease to work in the future.)

Likewise FTDI has no obligation to make sure their drivers are compatible with bootleg chips. If they design their drivers to kill bootleg chips good for them (bad for people that got them unknowingly though), the anger should be directed toward the bootlegger though as that is the only way to solve the problem. The risk/reward you take with bootleg parts/supplies is that they may or may not work properly but they are cheaper than the name brand.

[zapta]

To act all butt hurt because the printer manufacturer tries to make it difficult for you to use bootleg ink is silly.

Will, us silly people can still avoid future purchases of HP products because of intentional product regressions like this one.

HP lost my trust.

[dannyf]

HP is essentially enforcing their business model: of giving away printers so they can make money selling you the ink. So the upfront cost of the printer is being subsidized by the ink.

That business model is under attack now. Thus the chiped cartridges.

I can certainly see someone coming in selling fully loaded printers where you can use anyone's ink. Not sure if that's model I prefer.

[Jeff_Birt]

HP is essentially enforcing their business model: of giving away printers so they can make money selling you the ink. So the upfront cost of the printer is being subsidized by the ink.

That business model is under attack now. Thus the chiped cartridges.

I can certainly see someone coming in selling fully loaded printers where you can use anyone's ink. Not sure if that's model I prefer.

No one is going to cough up $500 for printer brand A when the same functionality is $50 from brand B. That is basic economics. Those vowing to never buy HP again because of this are basically 'throwing all their toys out the pram' as the Brits would say.

[zapta]

No one is going to cough up $500 for printer brand A when the same functionality is $50 from brand B. That is basic economics. Those vowing to never buy HP again because of this are basically 'throwing all their toys out the pram' as the Brits would say.

Intentionally regressing a product after I purchased it is a huge red flag for me. YMMV.

[ebclr]

Must respond on same way

FTDI was replaced for CP2102 in any product I'm involved

HP will be replaced by Epson simple as that, We are nothing cows

REACT

[linux-works]

from online discussions I have read, Brother (brand) is the one to go for if you are offended by HP's style of tactics.

I also won't buy samsung printers again; there was a thread here about that phoning home and also having you agree to an EULA that was dubious, at best, and allowed them to steal your data if they so chose.  I can drive that samsung laser from linux (no proprietary driver, no EULA to 'sign' etc) - but its still on my do-not-buy-ever-again list.

I try to avoid samsung on all things if I can.  they make some nice fast nvme ssd modules but I still resist buying from a hostile brand.

then again, any large company, these days, becomes hostile.  its like the batman movie, you either die a hero or live long enough to become one of the bad guys.  become a large enough company and you turn evil, it almost always happens when green (I mistyped 'greed', but green, aka, MONEY, also works here) and extreme capitalism are the only motivating factors for a corp.

[System Error Message]

i moved away from hp. Brother printers use the same ink cartridges they do years ago and you can refill them. They dont complain about ink and dont automatically update firmware (you have to do that manually even on their networked printers).

the printer may cost 2x the price of hp but the savings you get in ink is much better.

if you want to block auto updates than you will need to drop traffic to and from hp domains. Attach a router with DNS cache to the printer and look at the cache and it will show what websites it tries to contact.

[NottheDan]

Our officejet 8600 plus printer is connected to our wifi LAN and thus can access the internet. Do they update on their own? Can I block it somehow?

Set up your router to block it from accessing the internet.

I also won't buy samsung printers again; there was a thread here about that phoning home and also having you agree to an EULA that was dubious, at best, and allowed them to steal your data if they so chose.  I can drive that samsung laser from linux (no proprietary driver, no EULA to 'sign' etc) - but its still on my do-not-buy-ever-again list.

Don't worry about Samsung. HP is currently buying their printer business.

[zapta]

Set up your router to block it from accessing the internet.

How do I do that? We are using this router

https://www.netgear.com/support/product/WNDR3400v3.aspx

[rsjsouza]

its really hard for me to accept a computer system that forces updates on you.  that's so wrong on so many levels.

Our officejet 8600 plus printer is connected to our wifi LAN and thus can access the internet. Do they update on their own? Can I block it somehow?

zapta, I have the same printer and found a way to prevent it from automatic updating itself, but I had to do a quick search to refresh my memory:
http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Printer-Software-and-Drivers/Want-to-PREVENT-automatic-firmware-updates-amp-other-changes/td-p/4798863

The drawback is that you must have web services enabled.

[NottheDan]

Set up your router to block it from accessing the internet.

How do I do that? We are using this router

https://www.netgear.com/support/product/WNDR3400v3.aspx

I'm haven't done it in a long time and I'm not familiar enough with your router to give you a specific procedure. Basically what you want to do is to create a firewall setting that blocks outgoing traffic on the ports and to the IP addresses the printer is phoning home to. Now with some ports that is easy and they can just be blocked wholesale because nothing else will use them but if the printer is using something like port 80 universal blocking will result in you not being able to read this forum because that is the usual port for HTTP traffic. Now some routers allow setting up specific blocks only for certain devices on their network in the security setting (or sometimes under parental controls) and that would make it easiest to only keep the printer in. I don't know if that can be done on your router, you have to check that yourself. Or find somebody with more experience here to give you the hints I am missing.

Another alternative method direct on the printer that might work is to turn off DHCP on it, set it up with a static IP address and delete the gateway address from it. That basically keeps it from knowing where to send its data to to get it onto the internet but it will still see the local addresses.