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Offline MrMobodiesTopic starter

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Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« on: July 15, 2020, 11:49:31 pm »
I heard on the news this morning about some Chinese minister announcing that it was "heart breaking" and will undermine trust between China and Britain.

https://www.techradar.com/news/huawei-banned-from-uk-5g-networks
Quote
Huawei banned from UK 5G networks

By Steve McCaskill 15/07/20

Operators will be banned from buying Huawei 5G kit from the end of 2020, and all kit will be removed by 2027

UK mobile operators will be banned from buying telecoms equipment from Huawei by the end of the year and will also have to strip out existing 5G kit made by the company by 2027.

In a dramatic reversal of previous policy, the government said it expected the ruling to delay 5G rollout by up to three years and add £2 billion of additional costs to operators. This could mean higher bills for customers and will inevitably threaten the UK’s bid to be a leader in 5G, which had been boosted by early launches by EE, O2, Three and Vodafone. Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden did confirm, however, that existing 2G, 3G and 4G kit can remain in place until it must be replaced.

Huawei UK
Although Huawei has long been frozen out of the US market on national security grounds, the company has had a presence in the UK for two decades and is a supplier for all four operators. It had been expected that these relationships would continue into the 5G era despite the US government’s calls for its allies to follow its lead and ban Huawei from their mobile infrastructure.

The UK had resisted such calls and in January confirmed that although Huawei gear would be banned from 5G cores, operators could continue to use the firm’s radio gear – effectively preserving the status quo. However Washington’s ongoing hostilities towards Huawei and recent sanctions that affect its ability to source microchips appear to have finally turned the tide. The decision is a huge blow for Huawei which will now fear other Western governments might follow suit and exclude it from their 5G rollouts.

Ed Brewster, a spokesperson for Huawei UK, said:
"This disappointing decision is bad news for anyone in the UK with a mobile phone. It threatens to move Britain into the digital slow lane, push up bills and deepen the digital divide," said Ed Brewster, Huawei UK spokesperson. "Instead of ‘levelling up’ the government is levelling down and we urge them to reconsider. We remain confident that the new US restrictions would not have affected the resilience or security of the products we supply to the UK.

"Regrettably our future in the UK has become politicized, this is about US trade policy and not security. Over the past 20 years, Huawei has focused on building a better connected UK. As a responsible business, we will continue to support our customers as we have always done. "We will conduct a detailed review of what today’s announcement means for our business here and will work with the UK government to explain how we can continue to contribute to a better connected Britain."

Earlier in the day, Huawei UK chairman Lord Browne stepped down from his position ahead of the ruling. Operators had argued that a ban on Huawei kit would increase costs, reduce innovation, and cause serious disruption to 5G rollouts. An independent assessment from Assembly Research had suggested the a delay in roll out could cost the UK economy up to £6.8 billion and lead to delays of up to two years. However most carriers seemed resigned to the fact that a ban would be issued and more recently turned their attention to minimising the impact of any restrictions. Given that telecoms equipment has a limited shelf-life of less than a decade, it was hoped that any requirement to remove kit could be integrated into planned upgrade programmes, minimising costs and disruption.

Vodafone had claimed the bill for stripping out networking equipment could run into the billions, while BT CEO Philip Jansen had warned an accelerated timeframe could harm 5G and fibre rollouts, exacerbate potential security issues and even cause service interruptions. “If we get in a situation where things need to go very, very fast then you’re into a situation where potentially service for 24 million BT Group mobile customers is put into question,” he told BBC Radio 4. “Outages would be possible.”

Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden accepted the difficulties of an accelerated timetable and the additional cost and gave these as reasons for the 2027 deadline. Whether this explanation is enough to placate Tory backbenchers remains to be seen.


I also found this long article "Did a Chinese Hack Kill Canada’s Greatest Tech Company?" interesting about the demise of Nortel and accuses the Chinese government of copying their Intellectual property:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-07-01/did-china-steal-canada-s-edge-in-5g-from-nortel
« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 11:53:39 pm by MrMobodies »
 

Online MK14

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2020, 12:03:45 am »
What I find funny, is "By 2027".
So they can potentially listen in for the next 7 years. Great!  :-DD

I'm annoyed with China about this.
It is up to the UK, to decide what, if anything, we use for 5G. Not China!
I.e. We can't choose who supplies our 5G equipment, yet if we mention Hong Kong, China says something like "It is nothing to do with the UK, mind our own business!".

With what is going on in Hong Kong, I think, it could be the beginning of changes, to the way the rest of the world treats China.

In theory, it is the Electronics's (and probably computer) Industries (and other industries/consumers), that could see lots of disruption, when/if the Chinese relationship with the rest of the world, goes bad.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2020, 12:07:06 am »
I'm annoyed with China about this.
It is up to the UK, to decide what, if anything, we use for 5G. Not China!
I.e. We can't choose who supplies our 5G equipment, yet if we mention Hong Kong, China says something like "It is nothing to do with the UK, mind our own business!".

We always could have, and did choose to use other suppliers for much of the equipment. China hasn't forced our hand here, Trump has.
 

Online MK14

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2020, 12:12:10 am »
We always could have, and did choose to use other suppliers for much of the equipment. China hasn't forced our hand here, Trump has.

It does seem to be Trump, I agree.
But, it should/is still our (UK) choice, to keep Trump happy, for possible future US relationships, such as UK/US trade deals.
China can be annoyed about it, fine. But, can't be allowed to dictate to the UK, about what we should and shouldn't do.
But you are right. Trump shouldn't be deciding what the UK, can and can't do, either. But in practice, I think the UK government, wants to keep Trump happy.

Edit: I'm speculating. But, behind the scenes, the UK is probably trying to negotiate a trade deal (or similar), between the UK and China (because of Brexit). Hence China know full well, they can easily lay on lots of pressure, and say such things at/against the UK.
In the knowledge, it might work, as the UK (in their eyes), needs such lucrative trade deals. Especially under these difficult times (economically, due to the virus).

Edit2: I wouldn't trust the US, either.
Not only may they be recording/monitoring everything and sending it back to the US. They could also, sooner or later, lose it to hackers, or their own contractors/employees, who could then sell the information and/or publish (embarrassing stuff), online somewhere.
As, has already happened, with stuff. E.g. WikiLeaks, Julian Assange, and the sources they use, such as ex-US contractors etc.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 12:38:06 am by MK14 »
 

Offline themadhippy

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2020, 12:49:26 am »
From regan and thatcher, blair and bush or  trumpton and doris, certainly mr president let me  bend over,how far would you like to insert it?
 
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Online MK14

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2020, 01:14:28 am »
From regan and thatcher, blair and bush or  trumpton and doris, certainly mr president let me  bend over,how far would you like to insert it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_Minister

'Yes Minister' and 'Yes, Prime Minister', happening in real life (again).
For anyone, not familiar with the UK, it is a past UK (BBC) comedy programme, all about things like this thread topic.

E.g. This one relates to Databases and spying on people, I think.


« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 01:23:47 am by MK14 »
 

Offline Rick Law

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2020, 01:25:10 am »
We always could have, and did choose to use other suppliers for much of the equipment. China hasn't forced our hand here, Trump has.

It does seem to be Trump, I agree.
But, it should/is still our (UK) choice, to keep Trump happy, for possible future US relationships, such as UK/US trade deals.
...
...

I think the most important aspect (in the Trump administration's minds) is probably I5.  Trade may have some impact, but I5 is far more important.

As seen in some of Trump's press conferences, Trump said something about reluctance of sharing intelligence -- multiple times.  In my opinion, that point is valid -- You can't have 4 countries sharing national intelligence securely and then have the 5th one relaying such information "in the clear", so to speak.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 01:27:39 am by Rick Law »
 

Offline all_repair

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2020, 01:36:16 am »
Is politics, better stay clear.  UK is much wiser than Canada and Australia on this.  Is up to UK to decide on who to buy from?  Likewise, is up to China to decide if UK products and services are security risk, anything can be security risk.  Aircraft engine that phone home can be so.  Of course, UK would want both US and China markets as she is trying to navigate her way there.  7 year is long time in the telecom world. 
 
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Online MK14

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2020, 01:38:07 am »
I think the most important aspect (in the Trump administration's minds) is probably I5.  Trade may have some impact, but I5 is far more important.

As seen in some of Trump's press conferences, Trump said something about reluctance of sharing intelligence -- multiple times.  In my opinion, that point is valid -- You can't have 4 countries sharing national intelligence securely and then have the 5th one relaying such information "in the clear", so to speak.

That makes sense.
It would be interesting, to know the full (secret) picture, with all the juicy details.
China seem to be especially angry about this, which makes me wonder why.
I.e. No smoke without fire, or No big noise, without something bigger to this story, as regards China.

China/Huawei just losing sales of some 5G equipment, shouldn't really bother China that much, I would have thought. Why all the fuss ?
 

Online MK14

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2020, 02:26:49 am »
China and US are both trying to collect neutral countries..
..{Shortened}

Hopefully things will get peaceful, as time goes on, between China and the US. Trump may not be around (in power), after the November election.

Otherwise there could be big supply issues as regards Electronic/computer stuff (along with the other huge range of items, that China is involved with).
 

Offline Rick Law

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2020, 02:33:19 am »
You can't have 4 countries sharing national intelligence securely and then have the 5th one relaying such information "in the clear", so to speak.

Presumably no one is going to transmit clear text intelligence over the Internet. It's gotta be encrypted, and since Ethernet, which is the basis of modern Internet, or at least at the last mile, is not secure by design, anyone with any access to the same network can tap into your communication, so regardless intelligence must be encrypted peer to peer, and that encryption can be using a custom algorithm, rather than standard AES, making it harder to hack than the infrastructure-level encryption. So really, what is the point hacking switches and routers?

Telephone is another thing, it doesn't support peer to peer encryption. But that's already easy to tap, unless you encapsulate it over VOIP with a good cypher, which everyone does nowadays.

My "in the clear" is not intended to be taken literally.  Nothing is unheckable with today's technology.  Just by intercepting it, part of the job is done.

Beside, just the meta data can do a lot of good.  More on that in my following reply to MK14 following.

I think the most important aspect (in the Trump administration's minds) is probably I5.  Trade may have some impact, but I5 is far more important.

As seen in some of Trump's press conferences, Trump said something about reluctance of sharing intelligence -- multiple times.  In my opinion, that point is valid -- You can't have 4 countries sharing national intelligence securely and then have the 5th one relaying such information "in the clear", so to speak.

That makes sense.
It would be interesting, to know the full (secret) picture, with all the juicy details.
China seem to be especially angry about this, which makes me wonder why.
I.e. No smoke without fire, or No big noise, without something bigger to this story, as regards China.

China/Huawei just losing sales of some 5G equipment, shouldn't really bother China that much, I would have thought. Why all the fuss ?

Same reason why China wants their own GPS , I suppose.  As it is today, USA has the key to the GPS.  We can deny access to GPS, or "adjust the accuracy" of GPS.  Battle of Jutland might have came out very different had they know the real-time location of their varies fleets.

But unlike GPS, 5G would be a technology that can have development cost shared by customers.

Next war (diplomatic or shooting), knowing what the other guy is thinking will give you a tremendous advantage.  Even just the meta-data would be very useful.  Just by knowing who from and who to, Britain was able to work out rather accurately what the German strength was, even before breaking the unbreakable Enigma.  That was what kicked off Bletchley Park - they show what they can do with just the meta-data and shown it to Churchill.  Bletchley Park got the resources and transformed from tiny "side thing" of half-a-dozen people to a major operation.   Hats off to the Bletchley Park folks really, pioneers of computers and in particular pioneer of data analysis.

Then again, it could simply be National Pride which is quite understandable, or just $$$ which is also quite understandable.  There is a lot of money in being the "goto" guy for 5G.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 02:38:50 am by Rick Law »
 
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Offline BravoV

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2020, 02:48:57 am »
What I find funny, is "By 2027".
So they can potentially listen in for the next 7 years. Great!  :-DD

That is clearly business talk and strategy, nothing about political.

As the US's most remote 51th "state", the UK country state of UK is just buying time with that excuse, as once DT is gone, this pressure is gone too.
 
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Offline Monkeh

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2020, 02:49:41 am »
It would be interesting, to know the full (secret) picture, with all the juicy details.
China seem to be especially angry about this, which makes me wonder why.
I.e. No smoke without fire, or No big noise, without something bigger to this story, as regards China.

China/Huawei just losing sales of some 5G equipment, shouldn't really bother China that much, I would have thought. Why all the fuss ?

They've invested a huge amount of effort and money into an attempt to build a monopoly. It's not 'some' we're talking about here, it's supplying infrastructure on a global scale.
 

Online MK14

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2020, 02:59:50 am »
Same reason why China wants their own GPS , I suppose.  As it is today, USA has the key to the GPS.  We can deny access to GPS, or "adjust the accuracy" of GPS.  Battle of Jutland might have came out very different had they know the real-time location of their varies fleets.

But unlike GPS, 5G would be a technology that can have development cost shared by customers.

Next war (diplomatic or shooting), knowing what the other guy is thinking will give you a tremendous advantage.  Even just the meta-data would be very useful.  Just by knowing who from and who to, Britain was able to work out rather accurately what the German strength was, even before breaking the unbreakable Enigma.  That was what kicked off Bletchley Park - they show what they can do with just the meta-data and shown it to Churchill.  Bletchley Park got the resources and transformed from tiny "side thing" of half-a-dozen people to a major operation.   Hats off to the Bletchley Park folks really, pioneers of computers and in particular pioneer of data analysis.

Then again, it could simply be National Pride which is quite understandable, or just $$$ which is also quite understandable.  There is a lot of money in being the "goto" guy for 5G.

Some very good points! That makes a lot of sense.
If there is a company China are interested in knowing about, e.g. in the UK, and they had just the meta-data.
They would know that companies IP address, so if they monitored lots of traffic (even if it was otherwise heavily encrypted meta-data), going to another company. That would let them begin to know, the activities of that important UK company.
They could then use private detective like techniques to infiltrate the other company, to find out what is going on, between the two companies.

Bletchley Park, did do a good job.
Some/many think, if it wasn't for Bletchley, I would be saying
"Ich kann nur deutsch sprechen".
 

Online MK14

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2020, 03:13:24 am »
No, it's not Trump nor Xi. It's about national interest, and it is not even political.

The US has no problems with completely dictatorship countries (compared with China's collective/authoritative democracy) as long as they export interests to the US.

China happens to be the country which benefited from US's jump starting and doesn't want to keep exporting interest to the US.

And the US, or to certain degree, the Anglo Saxon ethnic, is rooted with colonialism, and you guys deeply believe by eradicating the old system in a new land you did a service to people living there.

And more importantly, the wealth of the I5 are accumulated in such a way.

So it's really a clash between I5's fundamental interest and China's national interest. It's nothing political, nothing presidential and nothing personal. It just has to happen regardless the fancy causes it is given.

Your post, and other(s), have shown my lack of knowledge/appreciation, of how important 5G is, and will be in the future.
I suppose it is a bit like all the worlds telephone, mobile phone networks air-space and cable (TV) combined, into a new, modern upcoming entity. With some/much of the internet and computer networks, thrown in for good measure.
I can well understand why China would want to be the main supplier of it, and why the US would want to stop China, from being in that position.
 

Offline Rick Law

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2020, 03:45:02 am »
Meta-data is hugely useful.

Just by watching the company's parking lot and loading docks, compared to the months prior, you can know how their business is going.   If a company claims to be doing $100 million dollars a year, the HQ isn't going to be a the second floor on top of a small Takeout Restaurant...

I am not sure you can do this anymore with today's sensitivity:
If you have some one here for an interview, go out to the parking lot and look inside his/her car.  (Well, you need his plate number so his car doesn't get ticketed parking at visitors parking all day, right?)  You will know if that guy is well organized, attend to detail...   Doesn't matter, "a fellow with 5 empty coffee cups and a dried out half eaten slide of pizza on the passenger seat right on top of an unpaid phone bill",  I like a fellow like that handling my account receivables.

Edit: Broke up the last sentence to two - otherwise unchanged.  (Since there are new post after my edit, I should say this)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 03:49:45 am by Rick Law »
 

Online Bud

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2020, 03:46:48 am »
So forget Bletchley Park then, it will be Google this time around.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline Rick Law

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2020, 04:01:27 am »
So forget Bletchley Park then, it will be Google this time around.

Easier than needing to search Google.

"Fitbit’s developer Strava - which considers itself "the social network for athletes" - regularly publishes a map of around 27 million people’s jogging routes. Last November, that global database of exercise “hotspots” was updated, what it revealed has sent a shiver down US Central Command’s spine."

Say you see a whole bunch of people jogging where there was nothing but sand 10 miles in every direction, you kind of figure out may be some unit is deployed there...

Imagine what you can do with cell tower connection data.  Possibilities is endless.

(I couldn't find the article I read about that originally, but here is a similar one and it is the source of the above quote)
https://proprivacy.com/privacy-news/us-military-fitbit-concerns

EDIT:  Forgot the "Imagine what..." line, the edit added that back.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 04:17:04 am by Rick Law »
 
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Online vk6zgo

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2020, 04:22:16 am »
Hopefully things will get peaceful, as time goes on, between China and the US. Trump may not be around (in power), after the November election.

No, it's not Trump nor Xi. It's about national interest, and it is not even political.

The US has no problems with completely dictatorship countries (compared with China's collective/authoritative democracy) as long as they export interests to the US.

China happens to be the country which benefited from US's jump starting and doesn't want to keep exporting interest to the US.

And the US, or to certain degree, the Anglo Saxon ethnic, is rooted with colonialism, and you guys deeply believe by eradicating the old system in a new land you did a service to people living there.

And more importantly, the wealth of the I5 are accumulated in such a way.

So it's really a clash between I5's fundamental interest and China's national interest. It's nothing political, nothing presidential and nothing personal. It just has to happen regardless the fancy causes it is given.

But Trump is quite erratic, so his actions must have some effect.
There is a normally a lot of difference between the public stance of politicians, & the interests of that country.
For instance, back in the '50s & '60s when both the PRC & the USSR were the "big baddies", with "Reds under the bed" rhetoric flowing freely in Australia, we were selling huge quantities of grain to both countries.
"Business is Business!"

Recently, Trump has decided that the WHO were "under the thumb of China" & started pressuring allies to support an inquiry, fairly obviously aimed at making China the scapegoat over COVID19.
That country, quite understandably, took offense.

Australia's PM, in public statements, backed the call, also pushing the "China bad" line.
When the actual official line came out, it was much more "wimpy", but the damage was done.

China increased tariffs on Australian barley, making it uneconomical for our farmers to export it, (or their factories to buy it).

All fair enough, so far, but then the PRC calmly turned around & bought their barley from the USA!

In Australia, we are quite used to our "Great & powerful friends" screwing us over, so it shouldn't have come as much of a surprise!

In a way, we seem to have gone back to the modus operandi of powerful States of the 18th & 19th centuries, where the reasons for wars were not ideological, but the perceived "best interests" of the existing power structures in those States.

After all, for most French people & English people life was not much different------- it really sucked in both countries, but during those centuries, thousands of people from both sides tried to kill each other, (& often succeeded), for little advantage.


« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 04:29:10 am by vk6zgo »
 

Offline AndyC_772

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2020, 06:53:45 am »
so regardless intelligence must be encrypted peer to peer, and that encryption can be using a custom algorithm, rather than standard AES, making it harder to hack than the infrastructure-level encryption. So really, what is the point hacking switches and routers?

Telephone is another thing, it doesn't support peer to peer encryption. But that's already easy to tap, unless you encapsulate it over VOIP with a good cypher, which everyone does nowadays.

I think the concern is more about continuity of service than data being siphoned off and sent outside the country.

Even if you can't read the contents of messages being sent over a network, you can still do severe damage to an enemy if you can cripple that network by shutting down key parts of it.

Offline BravoV

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2020, 07:08:20 am »
Australia's PM, in public statements, backed the call, also pushing the "China bad" line.
When the actual official line came out, it was much more "wimpy", but the damage was done.

China increased tariffs on Australian barley, making it uneconomical for our farmers to export it, (or their factories to buy it).

All fair enough, so far, but then the PRC calmly turned around & bought their barley from the USA!

In Australia, we are quite used to our "Great & powerful friends" screwing us over, so it shouldn't have come as much of a surprise!

I guess Ozzies are fully aware that it is the small price to pay serving the master, aren't they ? Hence, no complain heard at all.  :-//

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2020, 07:53:32 am »
You can't have 4 countries sharing national intelligence securely and then have the 5th one relaying such information "in the clear", so to speak.

Presumably no one is going to transmit clear text intelligence over the Internet. It's gotta be encrypted, and since Ethernet, which is the basis of modern Internet, or at least at the last mile, is not secure by design, anyone with any access to the same network can tap into your communication, so regardless intelligence must be encrypted peer to peer, and that encryption can be using a custom algorithm, rather than standard AES, making it harder to hack than the infrastructure-level encryption. So really, what is the point hacking switches and routers?

Telephone is another thing, it doesn't support peer to peer encryption. But that's already easy to tap, unless you encapsulate it over VOIP with a good cypher, which everyone does nowadays.

All communications tend to be encrypted? but I think it's about making sure the network is secure.
 

Offline AndyC_772

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2020, 08:56:43 am »
"Fitbit’s developer Strava - which considers itself "the social network for athletes" - regularly publishes a map of around 27 million people’s jogging routes. Last November, that global database of exercise “hotspots” was updated, what it revealed has sent a shiver down US Central Command’s spine."

Say you see a whole bunch of people jogging where there was nothing but sand 10 miles in every direction, you kind of figure out may be some unit is deployed there...

As an interesting aside, said map is here and it's really interesting to zoom in on your local area to see which routes exist and are popular nearby. Since the Coronavirus lockdown, I've been using Strava to discover new cycle routes near my home and it's been a hugely valuable asset - and no, I'm not usually "social" in any way besides the odd forum post here and there. I keep my profile 'private', but there's no reason not to allow data from my rides to contribute to an overall map of how popular my local roads are.

Of course, it helps that I'm an ordinary member of the public, taking exercise by riding public roads that exist on published maps. If I were a government employee, in a location that's supposed to be secret or where I'm otherwise not supposed to be, I'd be monumentally stupid to track my movements with a GPS device and upload those movements to a social network.
 
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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2020, 10:10:25 am »
there was indeed a case of a soldier that ran his bases perimeter on strava :palm: I don't care for google knowing where I am and don't mind helping with traffic routing. Everyone should use google maps to drive.

I do rather tire of hearing people screaming blue murder about the government knowing things when they are telling the world already. Of course that network needs to remain impenetrable to outside people and access to the networks does not necessarily mean the data is at risk but the network itself.
 

Online vk6zgo

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Re: Huawei 5G now banned in Britain
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2020, 12:40:41 pm »

I guess Ozzies are fully aware that it is the small price to pay serving the master, aren't they ? Hence, no complain heard at all.  :-//

Still the PRC didn't do anything the UK didn't do to us in the past, & neither the USA or PRC tested nuclear weapons in our country! ;D
 


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