Author Topic: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry  (Read 17744 times)

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Offline imo

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #250 on: December 18, 2018, 01:23:02 am »
The U.S. (and probably Canada) can enforce that easily by applying a typical definition of "US Persons":
Quote
U.S. Persons. Includes any U.S. citizen or permanent resident alien, wherever located, any entity organized under the laws of the United States (including foreign branches), or any person (i.e., individual or entity) within the United States.
Thus when breaching any agreements related to FCPA, OFAC, DPL, SDN List, etc., the CFO is primarily responsible, as the CFO is responsible for Compliance.

When a CFO comes to US, he/she is considered an US Person.

Btw, you cannot do any business in high-tech area with US companies (including their foreign branches), unless you agree to be compliant with above Acts.

« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 02:00:58 am by imo »
 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #251 on: December 18, 2018, 12:52:12 pm »
chinese garbage import including electronics which falls apart before you pull it out of the shipping box.

Natural selection. Those garbage manufacturers have been phased out.
Huawei is definitely not making garbage. It's a very powerful company that has its army of lawyers and engineers, trying to achieve world dominance on its industry.

An army of lawyers and engineers? You got that right... the People's Liberation Army of lawyers and engineers :-DD.

Huawei definitely makes garbage. I owned a Huawei phone once. Crap design. The comrades who designed this clearly tried to get it do perform functions way beyond its limited hardware capability. Battery life was poor too. Huawei: You get what you pay for. The only worse phone I ever had was the American designed HP Compaq HP-6515. This was an unbelievably bad design from a system, hardware and software perspective. It was not not fit for purpose as a phone or anything besides maybe as a door stop, or maybe to help fund Carly Fiorina's payout. A waste of $1,100. HP: You don't get what you pay for - you get ripped off. I have never bought any HP or Huawei product since.

I have a Samsung S8, and it is a terrific phone. Very happy with it. Never had a problem with it in the two years I have had it. Very well designed by competent engineers in South Korea.
 

Online Bud

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #252 on: December 18, 2018, 07:16:35 pm »
Huawei ran a lot of ads during Stanley Cup hockey season earlier this year here in Canada, not sure if they did in the US.
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Offline blueskull

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #253 on: December 18, 2018, 07:29:40 pm »
An army of lawyers and engineers? You got that right... the People's Liberation Army of lawyers and engineers :-DD.

Huawei definitely makes garbage.

I have a Samsung S8, and it is a terrific phone.

Huawei spent $13Bn in 2017 on R&D, and it proposed $15+Bn in 2018.
Huawei has 10k+ employees making 1M+ CNY each year, and 1k+ employees making 5M+ CNY each year, as of 2017.
Its research topic is broader than most people think. It's not just making telecom gears and phones.
Due to its special position, it has to worry about the west cutting off its supply, just like ZTE. In return, it has to clone everything they use in their designs.
It doesn't manufacture the cloned artifacts due to IP law restrictions, but it stockpiles the technology, in case one day the west acts up.
For instance, it has its own RF PA transistor technology, though it sells products with NXP parts. If needed, it can make its own RF LDMOS.
Similarly, while its ASICs for telecom gears and phones are taped out by TSMC, it also designs backend processes with GF, Samsung and other fabs, in case Taiwan acts up.
And again, many its low volume products are not FPGA based. Huawei ASIC-ify everything, to circumvent western IP sanction.
That greatly increased its budget, to beyond what a similar western company has to spend to obtain the same product outcome.

Also, it does a lot of emerging businesses, such as EV, EV chargers and telecom center power supply solutions.
My offer from Huawei power electronics was 400k CNY for the first year, 600k for the second year, and from then sky is the limit. I declined it, but I appreciate it.

Which garbage did you buy? If it's a burner phone from your sim card provider, then it is supposed to be made down to a cost, not up to a standard.
Are you comparing a flagship Samsung S series with a free Huawei phone? Because I've used a Samsung Mega series, free phone from China Mobile, and it is a POS, no more.
If you are comparing with S8, you gotta compare with Honor 9 or higher models.

And for the record, Huawei doesn't represent the best quality of phones from China. It's the most advanced in terms of technology, but the building quality is not as good as some more niche brands like OnePlus.
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #254 on: December 19, 2018, 04:45:10 am »
New Zealand says Huawei ban not because it's Chinese
=> https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/technology/new-zealand-huawei-ban-not-because-chinese-10979130

Yeah, right, because puppy supposed to obey what master said, just shut up and do it, no need to spin off with silly excuse.


Power of the Five Eyes in Huawei ban
=> https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12179007

UK, Canada and Australia have been very good puppies, good boys, now bark & bite, and don't forget the wiggle afterwards.


U.S. Steps Up Pressure on Germany Over Huawei Security Concerns
=> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-18/u-s-is-said-to-ratchet-up-huawei-security-concerns-to-germany

'No evidence' of Huawei spying, says German IT watchdog
=> https://phys.org/news/2018-12-evidence-huawei-spying-german-watchdog.html

Traitor ? or naughty German ?


Its hard not to believe that this CFO hostage is part of the grand plan, that was carefully planned and executed.

Curious on the next steps, Lenovo ? Alibaba ?  :-//
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 05:09:32 am by BravoV »
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #255 on: December 19, 2018, 06:21:56 am »
I think  BravoV this has little to do with anyone being Chinese it has everything to do with Huawei not being a USA owned company therefore bad evil and most of all another easy meal for Trump and Co. This is not China vs the World this is political BS from the US for ideological and political points at home.

Those of us with written alliances and pacts of various sorts with the USA as legal agreements we are obliged to commit to some things at times that are not always in our best interests.

To call us as a nation US puppy's is quite frankly just wrong and pissy at best. We have the right to voice our opinions of dissent to our government or in public and boot their asses to the curb if they upset us to much unlike the Chinese Totalitarian State! Our current Federal mob is on shakey ground already (not intending to start a debate on this just a numerical fact).

The USA's protectionist model does no country any favours including their own and the increases to it under Trump are playing to his selected home audience at the expense of their countries finances.

So please stop towing your parties own line of BS and look at why it is being done rather than playing the butt hurt card.
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Offline blueskull

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #256 on: December 19, 2018, 06:30:52 am »
To call us as a nation US puppy's is quite frankly just wrong and pissy at best.

We have the right to voice our opinions of dissent to our government or in public and boot their asses to the curb if they upset us to much unlike the Chinese Totalitarian State!

Because it is a puppet puppy of the USA. If a country's people and their leaders can't do whatever they want in their boarders with no fucks given to any other countries, then it is not an independent power. Puppet at most, slave more realistically.

And pathetically, the so called western democracy has to be held liable for all of this. People need to wank about democracy, and US is a good example of democracy or at least as it seems, so people cling on US's enslavement. Any political power with any gut in it should not allow such to happen. Keep American democracy from tainting the country is the leader's obligation. And it seems yours didn't do his job well.

And elected or not, the top leaders will always be corrupted and power hungry, given the power. If you are put to the position, you will do the same. Human nature. Just some pretends to be playing nice, some don't.
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #257 on: December 19, 2018, 06:45:34 am »
You are wrong Economically the USA is number three on our list behind China and Japan. https://dfat.gov.au/trade/resources/trade-at-a-glance/pages/default.aspx

Militarily we and politically we have agreements with a lot of countries including China and the USA and fairly much all countries in the world to use the word Puppies in diminutive of all of those relationships and no more than a generalist put down.

Democracy is not perfect as I have stated a lot previously in this thread but what it grants us is the right to try and improve it. The Chinese people are run over by tanks when they try or dissapeared. This is no more than the lesser of two evils and both fall short.

I like this guys take on China generally and have watched his stuff for a while, he lives there for a chunk of the year has a Chinese wife and is a Canadian. Well worth a watch.

https://youtu.be/4wLBaDiZtP8
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Offline cdev

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #258 on: December 19, 2018, 02:50:20 pm »
When China puts a dissident under house arrest not only can they not leave their house, nobody can visit them either. And I think the rest of their family is also in a state of quarantine.

And they literally have police camped outside on the doorstep.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 05:01:34 pm by cdev »
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Offline blueskull

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #259 on: December 19, 2018, 05:20:32 pm »
When China puts a dissident under house arrest not only can they not leave their house, nobody can visit them either.

Already a mercy compared of living in a jail.

And I think the rest of their family is also in a state of quarantine.

Evidence?
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #260 on: December 19, 2018, 06:57:53 pm »
It is better than putting them in jail, thats true.

No, I don't have any "evidence" besides my impression from reading their stories.

I get your point, its a complicated moral situation.

The world deserves better than all this.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 07:01:56 pm by cdev »
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Offline IconicPCB

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #261 on: December 19, 2018, 09:10:54 pm »
Cdev,

Extrapolate the living conditions in present day USA to a country with a population which is five times larger living in the same space.
 
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Offline cdev

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #262 on: December 19, 2018, 09:42:21 pm »
You're right, I'm unlikely to ever understand fully what it must be like.

Nor am I able to understand the issues driving US government policy, either. But, as somebody who believes in democracy and especially in the essential nature of a public sphere and discussion and government of by and for the people (not just my own) I think that both Chinese and we Americans as well as people in all of the other countries in the world all deserve far better than what we're getting now from both governments and industries, who have gone to great lengths to hijack where we're all going into a totally wrong direction.

I don't buy into the highly mobile global capital demanding more and more argument, even if it is true, thats what governments job is to do to say no.

I am for a race to the top not a race to the bottom.


« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 10:06:11 pm by cdev »
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Offline cdev

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #263 on: December 19, 2018, 09:56:21 pm »
I'm glad you brought that up though, because it needed to be said.

But nor does the existence of these hotbeds of poverty justify the elimination of the positive things that have happened elsewhere. Nor does it justify the continuation of conditions of absolute insane inequality where people cant even afford to send their children to school.

Cdev,

Extrapolate the living conditions in present day USA to a country with a population which is five times larger living in the same space.

Everybody deserves to live better.

We should make our goal being a planet where everybody lives well and nobody lives an hyperconsumption lifestyle or makes hundreds of times more than what a typical worker makes.

 And nobody should have to live in near starvation conditions, or watch their child die or go blind, because they cant afford a common medicine, especially not in countries that have advanced science or space programs or a huge number of wealthy people like the US, China or India.

Nobody should be forced to put up with conditions that cause cancer or other toxic chemical related conditions.

The people of the planet need to slap the governments in the face with a cold wet rag and get them to start working to fix these things instead of putting their collective elitist wagons in a circle and trying to obfuscate what they are doing.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 10:11:17 pm by cdev »
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Offline IconicPCB

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #264 on: December 19, 2018, 10:08:23 pm »
Ah.. to live in a perfect world.... where everybody works as much as they can and has as much as they need...
 A phrase often mentioned by my father.. who had heard it from his father... who had heard it during the October revolution...
 

Offline edy

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #265 on: December 19, 2018, 10:46:40 pm »
The people of the planet need to slap the governments in the face with a cold wet rag and get them to start working to fix these things instead of putting their collective elitist wagons in a circle and trying to obfuscate what they are doing.

Yes that's why you have revolutions and wars. The only problem is, you have bloodshed, people die, more aggressive elements come into power and then want to consolidate it and tend to corrupt the final result as they wish to stay in power. People exploit other people, it has been happening throughout history, and today is no different. There are few "benevolent patriarchs/matriarchs" who really truly lead the people with unselfish motivation and full respect of the population and step down when their time is due, giving themselves and their all to the end. History is much more rife with power-hungry leaders and politics in a way selects for this trait. When it comes to revolutions and wars, I would say it is even more so. But even in cases where the population and leaders truly believed in the "cause" initially (typically social justice movements, socialism, communism, etc)... once the system is established, human nature degenerates it again into a corrupt system where those in power misappropriate funds, try to posture themselves and give advantages to their inner circle. You will be hard-pressed to find too many "G-d" fearing or upstandingly moral individuals who always tell the truth and are unselfishly helping their fellow humans.

The system of democracy we have today, especially in the US, seems to put huge power in the hands of a few elitists, corporations, campaign contributors (PAC's) and so on.... to influence voters and elections and policies in their favor, especially after people are elected, all sorts of laws and rules and regulations are passed to benefit them (payback). Transparency, oversight and rules have tried to reduce this and people are more aware of it, so the system... while not perfect... is at least aware of issues and the population can work to improve things. I think the media and free speech is essential to this, as is the right to gather, protest and collectively organize. You could argue that in the US, the right to bear arms also is a major factor. One of the first things a dictatorship does is stop communication, isolate people and suppress them, create mistrust between neighbours, punish anyone who resists or voices dissent, reduces their ability to fight, spreads rumors, obfuscates the truth. The "organized chaos" that is a typical democracy is much preferable to the "oiled production machine" of a dictatorship or uniform society. One elevates the individual and brings out the best in people and rewards them, the other drives them into submission and fear. We don't need to debate this, history has shown us already what systems people prefer to be in. Don't confuse the fact that despotic regimes still exist with the idea that they work... No, they persist due to an iron fist and given the chance, the population would revolt. Unfortunately if most citizens are born inside a prison, live in the prison their whole life, and never see outside that prison, never learn about any others (or are fed propaganda about how their system is superior than all others) they will be brain-washed and compliant and stick to the party line until the day they die.
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Online coppice

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #266 on: December 19, 2018, 11:10:32 pm »
The people of the planet need to slap the governments in the face with a cold wet rag and get them to start working to fix these things instead of putting their collective elitist wagons in a circle and trying to obfuscate what they are doing.
"Some else should fix it" always ends well.  :)
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #267 on: December 19, 2018, 11:24:53 pm »
The people of the planet need to slap the governments in the face with a cold wet rag and get them to start working to fix these things instead of putting their collective elitist wagons in a circle and trying to obfuscate what they are doing.

The system of democracy totalitarian communist state we have today, especially in the US China , seems to put huge power in the hands of a few elitists, corporations, campaign contributors (PAC's) and so on.... to influence ......

See not very far removed at all. Just some food for thought keep your minds and hearts open but be wary of BS, hypocrisy and propaganda.
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Offline apis

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #268 on: December 19, 2018, 11:59:32 pm »
A sort of cult of evaluation that claims to be based on 'efficiency'.

The so called human right or Western democracy is another cult. Just one favors the living of current generation, vs the other one favors the living of future generations.
??? Human rights gives citizens a minimum of protection from the state. It says the state (and anyone else) isn't allowed to murder me, torture me or turn me into a slave. I prefer to keep my human rights thank you. Your definition of cult is strange.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #269 on: December 20, 2018, 12:05:44 am »
I'm not sure how insisting the law is absolute and calling human rights go together. Human rights are legal rights and therefore law too.
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #270 on: December 20, 2018, 12:50:08 am »
I'm not sure how insisting the law is absolute and calling human rights go together. Human rights are legal rights and therefore law too.

According to Chinese constitution, the existence of communist party goes first.

Human right terms in Chinese constitution go from article 33 to article 40. Articles 13 and 16~18 protect property ownership, and article 4 protects ethnicity and belief freedom.
However, literally the very first clause defines communism being China's fundamental society system and Chinese Communist Party being the most intrinsic feature.
Any organisation or person shall not sabotage the leadership of communist party.

Also, all rights given to the people aren't essentially given to the citizens. In China, all people are citizen, but not all citizens are people.
People is defined as citizens who are not the enemy of the state and its idealism.
In other words, if you propose anti-communism, you violate article 1 of Chinese constitute, hence you are not given certain rights as people.

Being citizen you have certain rights, regardless being people or not. Despite having the rights, you are not given any power to practice them.
 

Offline imo

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #271 on: December 20, 2018, 01:04:53 am »
After having a lot of fun, here is an interesting technical comparison of network infrastructure components of Huawei, Ericsson, Nokia.
Interestingly, the Huawei boxes are full of Xilinxes, Alteras, ADs, TIs, NXPs, MAXIMs, etc. Try to purchase the chips in larger quantities without confirming the base stations will not be sold to certain entities.







« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 01:07:19 am by imo »
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #272 on: December 20, 2018, 01:13:07 am »
Quote
article 4 protects ethnicity and belief freedom.
but you cant really because
Quote
citizens who are not the enemy of the state and its idealism
combined with members of the communist party being as wealthy as all get out. You have a basic conflict maximising the power of the state over its population whenever it wants to signed off as LAW.

And there lies the fundamental hypocrisy of the Chinese government it is not a communist one in any traditional sense of the word it is about control by a select few over all and is Totalitarianism. Australia with our social programs and support for those in need is more communist than China.
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #273 on: December 20, 2018, 01:15:37 am »
According to Chinese constitution, the existence of communist party goes first.

Human right terms in Chinese constitution go from article 33 to article 40. Articles 13 and 16~18 protect property ownership, and article 4 protects ethnicity and belief freedom.
However, literally the very first clause defines communism being China's fundamental society system and Chinese Communist Party being the most intrinsic feature.
Any organisation or person shall not sabotage the leadership of communist party.

Also, all rights given to the people aren't essentially given to the citizens. In China, all people are citizen, but not all citizens are people.
People is defined as citizens who are not the enemy of the state and its idealism.
In other words, if you propose anti-communism, you violate article 1 of Chinese constitute, hence you are not given certain rights as people.

Being citizen you have certain rights, regardless being people or not. Despite having the rights, you are not given any power to practice them.
How is that less hypocritical than the west you like to regularly qualify as such here? That's just deciding that as a government you're number one and that you can decide on a whim who has rights. I'm not saying western governments are never inconsistent, but they do seem to be more consistent than "whatever we feel like". Not to mention that lumping the west together like that isn't likely to be very accurate.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #274 on: December 20, 2018, 01:47:25 am »
We (western countries) have done something similar with capitalism. Under the free market system money is free speech. Money talks, literally. It is protected free speech.

If you propose some change that will make you twenty million dollars and I have another idea of what to do that I can claim will make five hundred (million dollars) chances are I will win if its plausible.

People can vote for anything that is capitalism. This emerged out of the post WWII economic order because of Bretton Woods and the desire for a means of preventing the unpredictability of democracy and national politics from impacting investments.

See How to understand policy trilemmas | World Economic Forum
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/04/how-to-understand-policy-trilemmas/

In the US its enforced by treaties, such as the one described below, that preempt state laws that represent inconsistencies with certain treaties, which ensure the rights of international investment remain consistent.

Basically everything that was done during and after the New Deal era is off the table, and the parts of it which remain are being gradually phased out. They're framed as trade barriers..

See Jeffry C. Clark, The United States Proposal for a General Agreement on Trade in Services and its Preemption of Inconsistent State Law,

https://lawdigitalcommons.bc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1532&context=iclr

Deregulation is mandated by these treaties. It has to be one way, pretty much.

Otherwise people would just vote for things they wanted, and corporations would have to buy expensive all risk insurance like they used to.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 01:54:27 am by cdev »
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