Author Topic: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry  (Read 19064 times)

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Offline Rick Law

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #75 on: December 11, 2018, 02:10:03 am »

So far, I am sure that the law she allegedly broke is Iran trade related but I am not sure which one.  I would like to be able to narrow down to the U.S.C. numbers from official sources to be able to discuss the issue on firm grounds.  Thus far, most news description is merely "violating US Iran Sanction..." or similar which is no help.

But you did raised an interesting point in your reply: "If she indeed violated some export laws, most likely she did it in China. US has no jurisdiction in things happening in China."

The point you raised is the reason I hope whichever law(s) she allegedly broke is one of those laws that re-affirms UN sanction originated from NPT (Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty).  Re-affirm as in "if you break this UN sanction, it is breaking US law".  (I believe) An NPT driven UN sanction should have wide international support since NPT is the most-signed UN treaty.  That would be least disruptive to international trade.  If the law in question is one of those "domestic" US laws but Huawei is constrained by applicable US laws because they have an operation in the USA...  While I can see the rationale behind that, but I think that link would be too tenuous.

I thought that was what the ICC was for the UN legal system?

Other than being a member of the UN the USA doesn't have jurisdiction other than the Uni Lateral action it takes all to often I suspect. Rubbery charges to an 'alleged' crime of the UN sanctions for extradition to another 'Country' and not to the ICC spells BS and Bluster if they keep pushing UN sanctions.

If she and Huawei are being charged with breaching US laws on exports of goods indirectly headed for Iran then they need to prove it with a fully traceable paper trail of all parts or items. Good luck with 'demanding' Huawei release its Chinese documents to the USA.

If the USA is going to use a really rubbery link in that Huawei has Businesses in the USA and another corporate entity exported 'product' (not necessarily of USA origin or even exported from the USA) so your 'company' is guilty of breaking USA sanctions on imports to Iran banning export of anything to Iran. This is so thin it will break.

re: "I thought that was what the ICC was for the UN legal system?"

Not all UN member nations recognize the authority of the ICC - only 123 signed.  USA is one of the non-signers.  However, all 198 nations that signed the NPT (by signing) declared their willingness to comply by the treaty's rules of adjudication and punishment.  Absence more signatures or withdrawals, ICC would be able to handle situations with only 62% of the NPT nations.

NPT is the Treaty with the most signatories, so, it would be mathematically impossible to find "another UN authority" that covers every NPT nations (except of course the General Assembly which is everyone in the UN, and probably what most people consider as the UN).

re: "If the USA is going to use a really rubbery link in that Huawei has Businesses in the USA and another corporate entity exported 'product' (not necessarily of USA origin or even exported from the USA) so your 'company' is guilty of breaking USA sanctions on imports to Iran banning export of anything to Iran. This is so thin it will break."

I agree with you.  That is why I said earlier I hope the law she allegedly broke trace itself back to the NPT (which implies it trace back to a UN sanction).  That is the most solid, most agreed-to, least complication and would not add as much international tension.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 02:15:56 am by Rick Law »
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #76 on: December 11, 2018, 02:25:02 am »
However, it was expected China would look the other way and not accept Qualcomm's argument.... allowing iPhones to still be sold.

I don't think so. Chinese government always favors Qualcomm, as it favors Chinese government. Chinese government had made a few requests to QC, and QC all agreed:

1. Sell licenses to Chinese phone makers at % royalty no more than competing western customers (say, an iPhone X pays $20 to QC, which is 2% of MSRP, then a Chinese $200 phone using the same IP pays no more than $4).
2. Allow Chinese companies (this case, a spun-off of Xiaomi) to roll chips under a very competitive royalty (basically, allowing Chinese companies to roll the same chip without paying copyright fee, and only pay for the patents used).
3. Use certain standards made by Chinese companies, like Datang and Huawei, as part of their proposed 5G standard, so they can share patent revenue.

QC tried to mess with Chinese government before, and it learned that being submissive is the only way to live in China, the hard way.
 

Online coppice

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #77 on: December 11, 2018, 02:32:37 am »
QC tried to mess with Chinese government before, and it learned that being submissive is the only way to live in China, the hard way.
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Offline beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #78 on: December 11, 2018, 02:39:46 am »
re: "I thought that was what the ICC was for the UN legal system?"

Not all UN member nations recognize the authority of the ICC - only 123 signed.  USA is one of the non-signers.  However, all 198 nations that signed the NPT (by signing) declared their willingness to comply by the treaty's rules of adjudication and punishment.  Absence more signatures or withdrawals, ICC would be able to handle situations with only 62% of the NPT nations.

NPT is the Treaty with the most signatories, so, it would be mathematically impossible to find "another UN authority" that covers every NPT nations (except of course the General Assembly which is everyone in the UN, and probably what most people consider as the UN).

Thanks. Not surprising the USA hasn't signed this one along with all the others that give the UN some power to act.  ::)

Wonder when the USA will pay the UN the money they have owed for a few decades too but I am sure non compliance with a UN agreement isn't and issue in this case 'because reasons' :box:
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Offline raptor1956

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #79 on: December 11, 2018, 03:04:37 am »
re: "I thought that was what the ICC was for the UN legal system?"

Not all UN member nations recognize the authority of the ICC - only 123 signed.  USA is one of the non-signers.  However, all 198 nations that signed the NPT (by signing) declared their willingness to comply by the treaty's rules of adjudication and punishment.  Absence more signatures or withdrawals, ICC would be able to handle situations with only 62% of the NPT nations.

NPT is the Treaty with the most signatories, so, it would be mathematically impossible to find "another UN authority" that covers every NPT nations (except of course the General Assembly which is everyone in the UN, and probably what most people consider as the UN).

Thanks. Not surprising the USA hasn't signed this one along with all the others that give the UN some power to act.  ::)

Wonder when the USA will pay the UN the money they have owed for a few decades too but I am sure non compliance with a UN agreement isn't and issue in this case 'because reasons' :box:


What money does the USA owe to the UN -- care to elaborate?

From Wikipedia...

The United States of America is a charter member of the United Nations and one of five permanent members of the UN Security Council.

The United States is host to the headquarters of the United Nations, which includes the usual meeting place of the General Assembly in New York City, the seat of the Security Council and several bodies of the United Nations. The United States is the largest provider of financial contributions to the United Nations, providing 22 percent of the entire UN budget in 2017 (in comparison the next biggest contributor is Japan with almost 10 percent, while EU countries pay a total of above 30 percent).[1] From July 2016 to June 2017, 28.6 percent of the budget used for peacekeeping operations was provided by the United States.[2] The United States had a pivotal role in establishing the UN.


Brian
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #80 on: December 11, 2018, 03:33:18 am »
The 'arrears' are fairly minor by nation standards but it is a matter of politics why it doesn't get paid. Seems how you want to quote wikipedia use this link and scroll to the section on Arrears https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_the_United_Nations It goes to hypocrisy selective (self interested) adherence and demands of adherence by others of the UN decisions and mandates or agreements.

Perhaps read the entire page as it is mostly balanced fair commentary on the relationship between the USA and UN and not driven by 'fake news'

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Offline raptor1956

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #81 on: December 11, 2018, 03:53:33 am »
The 'arrears' are fairly minor by nation standards but it is a matter of politics why it doesn't get paid. Seems how you want to quote wikipedia use this link and scroll to the section on Arrears https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_the_United_Nations It goes to hypocrisy selective (self interested) adherence and demands of adherence by others of the UN decisions and mandates or agreements.

Perhaps read the entire page as it is mostly balanced fair commentary on the relationship between the USA and UN and not driven by 'fake news'

OK, the US is the largest contributer and the the nation most in arrears.  Part of the argument made by the US is that the amount to US pays is too high and, not surprisingly, not many other UN nations wish to change that.  This argument isn't new and goes back more than three decades so if there was going to be a reallocation of expenditures it should have happened by now.  India, for example, pays less than 1% even though they have 17% of the worlds population.  In fairness, however, the charge should be weighed against income as well so first world nations like the USA should expect to pay more than population figures would indicate. 

So I guess we're left with a chicken and egg situation where until the percentages are redone to be more equitable then you probably shouldn't hold your breath waiting for the USA to pay up.


Brian
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #82 on: December 11, 2018, 04:10:19 am »
As I said it isn't about the money it is about the ongoing Hypocrisy.

The USA took us and other nations to war against the information and UN sanctions/compliance/mandate in the 2nd Iraq war. Using things like this gem "The U.S. replied by saying that the responsibility of proof of disarmament was upon Iraq, not on the UN or the U.S. Guilty because it suited the USA's agenda without proof or any evidence before or since. How many lives did that BS cost and is still costing?

Simple Trumpesque China, North Korea, Iran, Russia ..... bashing and brinkmanship isn't a resolution mechanism.
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Offline edy

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #83 on: December 11, 2018, 04:12:46 am »
So latest is that Meng's lawyer is arguing for bail to involve $15,000,000 collateral (their two Vancouver homes and $1 million CAN) plus she privately pays a security monitoring agency and has to wear an ankle bracelet and be allowed to move around the Vancouver area. Plus she is apparently suffering from some health issues. Wouldn't it be ironic if the ankle bracelet used GPS tech made by China for which their government had a hackable back door and conveniently made her "disappear".
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Offline cdev

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #84 on: December 11, 2018, 04:13:16 am »
WTO telecommunications treaty may require that the transnational corporations of any WTO member treat the TNCs of other member countries's money equally now no matter what they do.

Human rights, arms proliferation, power disputes between countries, etc. are a slippery slope that these money-oriented global economic governance organizations just don't care at all about.

People do and should but to the TNCs who now basically own countries, not the other way around, its hard to say what they care about. Its unlikely to be what they say it is. Much of what we see is signalling behavior, where some issues are proxies for other issues.

The WTO, OECD, World Bank, and other organizations regulating trade, are where the power seems to be - seem to me to see all governments as equivalent, no matter how despotic, sort of like the divine right of kings. These orgs are inherently non-democratic.

We set this system up so that corporations would be held accountable to nobody. Not so they would or could be held accountable. Any failure to see things our way (whatever that is) is caused by the intentionally amoral system we've set up to give corporations certainty no matter what people want.

We've created a monster.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 04:21:39 am by cdev »
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Online Bud

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #85 on: December 11, 2018, 05:30:36 am »
Wouldn't it be ironic if the ankle bracelet used GPS tech made by China for which their government had a hackable back door and conveniently made her "disappear".

Well that would be a convenient excuse for Canada to get out of this, wouldn't it.
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Offline raptor1956

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #86 on: December 11, 2018, 06:09:39 am »
I made reference in past posts to the similar aggressive bluster Russia engaged in vis a vis Maria Butina and we now know that she's about ready to plea, though just how far that goes no one outside of the FBI and her lawyers will say just now.  If this is so and she does spill the beans it could be real bad for Trump and also embarrassing to Putin though not so much as Trump.  The fact that Russia played hard to get her released suggests they wanted her to be taken out of the country before we could get any further.

I've felt all along that this case with Huawei was very similar with respect to wanting to get her out of harms way before the FBI can nail convict-able crimes against her.  The idea that China would start WWIII because the US wanted to prosecute her is ridiculous and failure to call China's bluff will only embolden them in the future.  I think we'll know more about this shortly -- either they have something and she's extradited to the USA for prosecution or she will be released.  If she's released under any circumstance I expect the next we hear of her she will be back in China.  I think daddy will have little problem righting off a couple homes in Canada if years in prison is the alternative. 


Brian
 

Offline raptor1956

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #87 on: December 11, 2018, 06:32:32 am »
As I said it isn't about the money it is about the ongoing Hypocrisy.

The USA took us and other nations to war against the information and UN sanctions/compliance/mandate in the 2nd Iraq war. Using things like this gem "The U.S. replied by saying that the responsibility of proof of disarmament was upon Iraq, not on the UN or the U.S. Guilty because it suited the USA's agenda without proof or any evidence before or since. How many lives did that BS cost and is still costing?

Simple Trumpesque China, North Korea, Iran, Russia ..... bashing and brinkmanship isn't a resolution mechanism.


The blow-back from Bush/Cheney forcing the west to go back into Iraq is still with us -- the decision to go back is in my mind the single greatest foreign policy fuckup the USA has ever made.  We learned, only with the help of a Scottish newspaper, that the Bush admin was filled with members of the PNAC (Plan for the New American Century) that had been pushing to go back into Iraq since the mid 90's -- they seized upon 911 to convince the American people and other western nations that Saddam Hussein was part of OBL's terrorist group and needed to be taken out.  They fooled many but not all. 

In late 2001, November or December, I remember watching an interview with Admiral Woolsey, who I would later learn was a member of the PNAC, and his answers to the questions had my bullshit detector going off big time.  I don't remember who the interviewer was but this was not long after we (USA) had started fighting alongside the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan and after some initial problems we were making great progress and pushing the Taliban back on all fronts.  What I found odd was that no matter what the question posed to Woosley was he ignored it so he could resume talking about our need to go back to Iraq.  He'd be asked about our progress in Afghanistan and he ignored the question and would talk about nothing but going back to Iraq.

So, after the war in Iraq started and the story from the Scottish paper came out we then learned additional facts about what the Bush/Cheney admin and the PNAC team around them were doing -- within not weeks or even days but hours Rumsfeld was coordinating an effort to push the Iraq plan.

Once the strongman Saddam was out of the way the country descended into warring factions that ultimately lead to the rise of ISIS in the northern reaches and with the war now waging in Syria, a war also enabled by the turmoil in the region, ISIS was able to extend to the west and into Syria. 

All of that propagated the migration of millions from the region and that has resulted in the rise of right wing nationalists in many countries in Europe, east and west.

When asked if we should have gone into Iraq Cheney still says it was the right thing to do -- he'll never admit a failure of this magnitude nor his role in tricking the incompetent Bush into it. 

The Britts and others went along for the ride in Iraq but the French knew better and opted out.  If only we had listened to the French just this one time...


Brian
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #88 on: December 11, 2018, 07:01:28 am »
Our Prime Minister (Howard) of the time was 'shown the evidence of WMD's' before he committed a few thousand of our troops in his visit to the USA so we were there on day 1 and to this day still doesn't admit it was based on a lie or that uni lateral action was wrong. As you say the fallout is on going.

The Chinese have much better tools of war toward the USA than guns and that is what the bluster is all about.

Interesting read on the WTO vs the USA, China and who has made claims against who. https://theconversation.com/why-trumps-wrong-about-wto-treating-us-unfairly-102562

The US is still one of the most protected economies of the world and protesting other countries for doing similar is  :bullshit:
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Online BravoV

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #89 on: December 11, 2018, 07:08:23 am »
Our Prime Minister (Howard) of the time was 'shown the evidence of WMD's' before he committed a few thousand of our troops in his visit to the USA so we were there on day 1 and to this day still doesn't admit it was based on a lie or that uni lateral action was wrong. As you say the fallout is on going.

As foreigner, I'm wondering, why there is no any significant sign of voicing objections on that, like demonstration, or thru people representatives and etc until today ? Suppressed ?

Offline beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #90 on: December 11, 2018, 07:26:50 am »
Partly because he got dumped by the opposition party who rolled into power for a thing called 'work choices' giving way to much power to employers and other unpopular ideological 'reforms' this resulted in him losing his 'safe seat' in 2007 so was thrown from being PM to out of politics overnight  >:D

As a side player we were sold a lie by others is why I suspect we didn't as a nation see the need to lynch him personally in the Legal sense but he got his reward for not listening to the people in 2007 some of which was likely anti Iraq war related.
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Offline raptor1956

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #91 on: December 11, 2018, 07:36:37 am »
Our Prime Minister (Howard) of the time was 'shown the evidence of WMD's' before he committed a few thousand of our troops in his visit to the USA so we were there on day 1 and to this day still doesn't admit it was based on a lie or that uni lateral action was wrong. As you say the fallout is on going.

The Chinese have much better tools of war toward the USA than guns and that is what the bluster is all about.

Interesting read on the WTO vs the USA, China and who has made claims against who. https://theconversation.com/why-trumps-wrong-about-wto-treating-us-unfairly-102562

The US is still one of the most protected economies of the world and protesting other countries for doing similar is  :bullshit:


There are two eras here with respect to the USA -- Before Trump and after Trump.  Tariffs are useful when there is disparity in wages, working conditions and environmental conditions but when there is little or no disparity there should be no tariffs.  In the absence of tariffs when one nation has much lower wages and less is spent on workplace safety and environmental controls the effect is to move production to the cheaper country which increases pollution because the product is no longer being made where compliance is tougher, it increases the injuries and death when workers have less adequate workplace safety controls, and it puts a downward pressure on wages in the more developed country.  All these things are evident and have been evident for decades.  OTH, there is little to be gained from applying tariffs when the two trading nations have a comparable standard of living, wages, and workplace safety and environmental controls EXCEPT when one country is cheating in some way.

The truly odd thing is that Trump is applying tariffs to nations with comparable economies and the only justification is when a nation is cheating in some way.  Much of Trumps actions are political in nature as he's playing to a base that's been shit on by multinational companies and are susceptible to demagogues like Trump. 

I hope we can weather the Trump admin, but, sadly, there is little hope the opposition will change its ways and we can expect more of the same if he's reelected.  To make matters worse the situation in the USA is not the only tragedy in the world as many other western nations are being swept up by nationalism.  So, Trump is our problem and his problem has ramifications beyond our borders, but Trump is not to blame for the rise of nationalism in the other western nations.  We went through this last century and it cost 60M lives -- the next time could be 10X that ... or worse.


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Offline beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #92 on: December 11, 2018, 08:18:21 am »
That's why I said a page or so ago Canada should show the US the middle finger after being hit with Tariffs to the US on raw materials.

Protectionism will ultimately fail as it hides the outside world from industries that haven't come close to keeping up and the deficit economics can't be sustained forever by any government. So you either get smarter or innovate faster than the lower wage or lower cost countries or perish in the long term.

Nothing anti Chinese in this but broadly speaking China is still copying the West not creating new innovations and this is where we can compete 'for now'. It is still a cultural and population mix issue but they are learning very very fast. By the next Generation anyone left over from the Cultural revolution will be dead or out of power and the educated (Western in a lot of cases) University graduates will be running the country.

As Chinas wages and expectations grow however their manufacturing will have to change or suffer like a lot of Western manufacturing is suffering at their hands now. We are seeing some of this already with a shift into other parts of SE Asia to manufacture to keep tracking low wages.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 08:20:57 am by beanflying »
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Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #93 on: December 11, 2018, 12:38:29 pm »
Meng Wangzhou sounds a lot like Wun Hung Low  :-DD

Her comrades in Communist Party are screaming she should be set free. Something to do with Huawei's PLA goon that has a very close relationship with the corrupt communist government maybe? Trusted companies that have integrity like Ericsson will do well out of this.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #94 on: December 11, 2018, 01:15:07 pm »
Well they would be doing well out of this if they didn't have O2 and softbank going after them for £100m+ in compensation for their recent cock up.
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #95 on: December 11, 2018, 01:44:45 pm »
Imagine if Micro$oft were a Chinese company. :)
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Online Bud

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #96 on: December 11, 2018, 02:10:24 pm »
It is getting closer to it, it is already an Indian company.
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Offline Rick Law

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #97 on: December 11, 2018, 04:43:02 pm »
re: "I thought that was what the ICC was for the UN legal system?"

Not all UN member nations recognize the authority of the ICC - only 123 signed.  USA is one of the non-signers.  However, all 198 nations that signed the NPT (by signing) declared their willingness to comply by the treaty's rules of adjudication and punishment.  Absence more signatures or withdrawals, ICC would be able to handle situations with only 62% of the NPT nations.

NPT is the Treaty with the most signatories, so, it would be mathematically impossible to find "another UN authority" that covers every NPT nations (except of course the General Assembly which is everyone in the UN, and probably what most people consider as the UN).

Thanks. Not surprising the USA hasn't signed this one along with all the others that give the UN some power to act.  ::)

Wonder when the USA will pay the UN the money they have owed for a few decades too but I am sure non compliance with a UN agreement isn't and issue in this case 'because reasons' :box:


USA is already paying the most.  We pay 22% of UN funding.  All nations of Europe put together pays 33%, that is all of them together.  You can hardly say we are not paying our "fair" share.  In some cases, those are activities we have not agreed to or they are incompatible with our laws, we are hardly owing the money when we never agreed to fund that to being with.

To avoid getting into a political discussion, I am just sharing facts here to explain the incompatibility.  Lets not discuss the pro/con of any political stands.

In so far as ICC is concern, there is some USA Constitutional issues.  USA is one of the few countries that go with much of of John Locke's ideas (the British Political Philosopher in the 1600's) -  we believe in individual rights being innate to the individual rather than individual rights being granted by the government.  Thus the US Constitution limits what the government can do - negotiating a treaty is a power given to the Federal Government, but eliminating Constitutional Rights of our individuals is not a power given to the Federal Government.

So, unless ICC has an exemption to exclude all issues that may step on our Bill of Rights and other Constitutional limits placed on the government (of which Criminal Justice is a part), there would be a Constitutional issue.  (Again, I am not discussing should/should not or good/not good, I am laying out facts to understand where the two sets don't intersect to explain why they are incompatible) Free Speech for example - some western countries has laws in place to limit or penalize Holocaust denial (Holocaust as in NAZI killing of Jews during WWII).  Such law would be smack against our Free Speech rights.  If it is a US law, it would be ruled unconstitutional, and eliminated from our laws.  I can name a ton of such incompatibilities, but one is enough for illustration.

Yeah, our Constitution can be amended; but that would be a very high bar.  Politicians can probably dance around things enough to get anything pass, but handing it over is pretty much giving the shop away (ie: outsourcing enforcement of a whole chunk of our Constitution).  So, I am of the school that ICC is incompatible with our Constitution.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 04:49:27 pm by Rick Law »
 
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Offline raptor1956

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #98 on: December 11, 2018, 07:41:29 pm »
As anticipated, China has arrested a Canadian and did so a few days ago it appears. 

"Former Canadian diplomat Michael Kovrig was the person detained, two sources had said earlier. Kovrig works for the International Crisis Group, an independent conflict resolution think-tank which said it was seeking his prompt and safe release."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-huawei/canadian-detained-in-china-as-huawei-cfo-returns-to-court-idUSKBN1OA0M4


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Offline Wan Huang Luo

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #99 on: December 11, 2018, 09:44:49 pm »
As anticipated, China has arrested a Canadian and did so a few days ago it appears. 

"Former Canadian diplomat Michael Kovrig was the person detained, two sources had said earlier. Kovrig works for the International Crisis Group, an independent conflict resolution think-tank which said it was seeking his prompt and safe release."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-huawei/canadian-detained-in-china-as-huawei-cfo-returns-to-court-idUSKBN1OA0M4


Brian
The brinkmen will have their way.  :palm:
 


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