Author Topic: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry  (Read 43278 times)

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Offline BrianHG

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #150 on: December 13, 2018, 09:58:20 pm »
Next update:

 

Offline Rick Law

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #151 on: December 13, 2018, 10:00:34 pm »
...
Sadly, Trump claims he is not above using this to "twist arms" during trade negotiations with China, something even his own party warned him against. Justice is blind and people should be treated fairly... not some political weapon to be used to gain advantages when needed.
...

I agree with you to a large extend, but I think some "arm-twisting" is not always bad.  Frankly, I think many of us would agree even if this arrest is pure "arm twisting" during the trade negotiation, it may well be superior to full scale trade war.  Or perhaps a warning shot like "if you don't agree to stop doing those other bad things (such as lifting others intellectual property) we will begin throwing the books at you on all your miss-steps. starting right now..."  Neither of these two would be out of line in my view.

However, if this arrest is purely to slow Huawei down with 5G infrastructure, or if this is a move to show our other trading partner that you better stop illegal trade or else...  Either of those would not be a good thing in my mind.  I hope this move is pure (as in what you see is really what is going on and no other hidden agenda).
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #152 on: December 13, 2018, 11:14:48 pm »
I agree with you to a large extend, but I think some "arm-twisting" is not always bad.  Frankly, I think many of us would agree even if this arrest is pure "arm twisting" during the trade negotiation, it may well be superior to full scale trade war.  Or perhaps a warning shot like "if you don't agree to stop doing those other bad things (such as lifting others intellectual property) we will begin throwing the books at you on all your miss-steps. starting right now..."  Neither of these two would be out of line in my view.

However, if this arrest is purely to slow Huawei down with 5G infrastructure, or if this is a move to show our other trading partner that you better stop illegal trade or else...  Either of those would not be a good thing in my mind.  I hope this move is pure (as in what you see is really what is going on and no other hidden agenda).
Just don't come crying when China does some arm-twisting of its own.
 

Online IconicPCB

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #153 on: December 13, 2018, 11:45:58 pm »
Democracy is the dictatorship of the law.... Gerhard Schroeder  German chancellor

Discuss
 
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Online beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #154 on: December 14, 2018, 12:09:12 am »
So what it actually boils down to then is two children squabbling and making threats about a contents of the huge toy box and the means to control of it.

Maybe we need say and Motherly way to sort out that childish dispute Mmmmm oh wait we do have one it's called media manipulation of the sheepizens the WTO.

How it started to heat up and when  https://www.wto.org/english/news_e/news18_e/ds565rfc_27aug18_e.htm That's right China sought to use the correct mechanism to get a resolution but Trump and Chronies didn't like it so here we are after much inflated bs and hypocrisy from bothsides.

Facts are for most of us zero difference to our work or daily lives or access to anything we need. There is always another way to get it done that is why we are Engineers.





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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #155 on: December 14, 2018, 12:10:25 am »
Democracy is the dictatorship of the law.... Gerhard Schroeder  German chancellor

Discuss
No thanks, we're good.
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #156 on: December 14, 2018, 02:35:29 am »
china is kidnapping canadians though
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #157 on: December 14, 2018, 02:43:48 am »
china is kidnapping canadians though

Not at all China has 'used' their extremely harsh Totalitarian and protectionist laws as they are allowed to. If as reported he was not conforming to the BS law due to unworkable requirements and permits it really doesn't matter he and his organisation was in breech.

What they fail to understand is demanding another country ignore their laws (Canadian) to please China is  :bullshit: and this seemingly tit for tat response just adds to the pile of  :bullshit:
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Offline BravoV

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #158 on: December 14, 2018, 02:44:13 am »
china is kidnapping canadians though

You must be not surprised by that are you ? Just two words ... Guantanamo Bay.  >:D

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #159 on: December 14, 2018, 02:45:53 am »
The law being an absolute authority is a silly position.

Go ask Lee Kuan Yew. See how his "absolute fear to law" solution made Singapore the most developed country in Asia.

One of his quotes being between being loved and being feared, I have always believed Machiavelli was right. If nobody is afraid of me, I'm meaningless.

Lee Kuan Yew, Mao Ze Dong and Chiang Kai Shi are all some of the most successful dictators, and both did absolutely great things to their countries, though horrible.

ok this is just fucking ridiculous. do you call killing something like 20 mil people during a reign to be some how atonable by deeds? how much great stuff could all those people that starved and were purged done? dude this is the most brain washed shit I ever read. His policies resulted in mass murder to numbers we can't even imagine. It's like if you took a city off a map and someone said your great for fixing something else.

WHat you can say is that he managed to run a country by killing 20 million or more people. The people there did stuff. Are you saying the people there would have done less stuff if there was no massive catastrophes? He signed papers and ranted at a podium, like hitler, chinese people did all the great shit (yea it is impressive, they managed to keep it together with a genocidal nut running the government).

If I had a factory, decided to kill or fire 20% of the work force so I can use my shitty management practices to run things better, did I do things better, or would it be better if I had better management practices and 100% of my manufacturing force?


"oh yea the accounting department and human resources is over loaded because we have lazy slugs that work there, fuck the investors, my ego is more important, I will reduce numbers until things can run right with the current people in place". Bro he is a fucking criminal. The thing between canada and China reads like some fucking Godfather episode.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 02:50:33 am by coppercone2 »
 

Online IconicPCB

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #160 on: December 14, 2018, 02:51:57 am »
Yeah ..imagine what a great place america would be with all those 20 milion  injuns alive and kicking
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #161 on: December 14, 2018, 02:55:52 am »
Considering you list your country as Zimbabwe @coppercone2 your own countries last 50 or so years as far from perfect as regards killing each other regardless of which if any side you personally are on. The repressions of both sides and deaths while on a smaller scale still run toward systematic genocide.

We are all the sum of our pasts and our forbearers and their deeds and misdeeds.
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Offline coppercone2

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #162 on: December 14, 2018, 02:56:00 am »
Yeah ..imagine what a great place america would be with all those 20 milion  injuns alive and kicking

do I have a remembrance day I celebrate for some insane sea captains that decided to wage biological warfare on the native population? i like thanksgiving inb4 some one starts saying colonial gangsters were shaking down native people for food ::)
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 02:58:31 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #163 on: December 14, 2018, 03:05:53 am »
I am waiting for some china troll to post a picture of columbus ( yea I know your gonna say columbus day) sitting around on his ship looking at biowar plots and signing off on purges.


(like there is actually evidence of Chinese government officials doing). Ok maybe not advanced for bio war, more like deputizing death squads red guards to beat people with sticks and throw them outside windows. Thats like 'oh shit my department is doing bad i better hang out some pink slips so I can run this thing by myself so no one finds my dirty laundry, I can't risk sharing control'
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 03:08:13 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #164 on: December 14, 2018, 03:13:47 am »
Yeah ..imagine what a great place america would be with all those 20 milion  injuns alive and kicking

australia would be nice with all those aboriginals
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #165 on: December 14, 2018, 04:01:22 am »
coppercone2 please stop- are you trying to get this thread locked?

Beanflying, look back to the beginning of March 2016

How it started to heat up and when  https://www.wto.org/english/news_e/news18_e/ds565rfc_27aug18_e.htm

---------
Facts are for most of us zero difference to our work or daily lives or access to anything we need. There is always another way to get it done that is why we are Engineers.


The one from 2016 would impact engineers and many other professionals a LOT more than the one you pointed to. Globally.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #166 on: December 14, 2018, 04:06:57 am »
Most likely.

I can't be arsed reading them all but there would have to be a heap of tit for tat in this list by a heap of countries against each other :o https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_by_country_e.htm#chn

The USA with 23 leads China with 15 to save you all needing to look. Yeah they win  :palm:
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Offline cdev

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #167 on: December 14, 2018, 04:16:37 am »
India filed it.

Then look on the net for info on the US dispute with the WTO over Appellate judges for the Dispute Settlement Body.

Here is the problem, they set up this whole system which goes around democracy, has the potential to do some pretty distressing things, and didn't tell our countr(ies) a thing about it.

It seems this is the case in the UK too. There the implications are even worse, I think.

Nobody even understands what I am trying to explain, its that bad.

They aren't ready for it, thats for sure.  Neither are we, here. But we're getting it force fed to us.

BTW, as I tried repeatedly to post this, I have to keep restarting my DNS server so it can load the root zone data. Thats the only way I can post. There is some serious DNS something going on right now.

Ive been dealing with it a lot. I think its some censorship related thing because it only happens when I try to discuss this particular issue, in its many flavors.

Quick course in this thing.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 04:31:07 am by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #168 on: December 14, 2018, 05:05:48 am »
Regardless of who lives where and why at this point in time. To claim one side did X without acknowledging what was done before or since is more than a little Hypocritical and one sided. Translated to a Chinese sized population the Zimbabwean mess of the last 50 'ish years would run into millions of deaths too with an effective Dictatorship in control after deposing the preceding repressive regime. None of this is anywhere near on topic so apologies to all.

At least in China you don't have to worry about the Election Cycle. Just two more years for the USA to wait  ::)
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #169 on: December 14, 2018, 07:14:51 am »
1. I agree. My guess the end of the trade war is China will give up stealing western IPs tp certain degree, under a condition that the West promises never to sanction China by limiting high tech export to China. From Chinese government's perspective, the West uses high tech sanction to protest dictatorship and Taiwan problem. If China is given a green unconditionally on high tech, China will have no excuse to fund cloning of Western technology.

2. BS. If you can't compete, you deserve to die. China will deal with pollution and many other social problems, but human competing and phasing out human will never change. That's the thrust of natural selection.

3. Politicians know what is good for the human as a race, not the humanity BS. If evolution requires, everyone not up to the standard should and can die.
So China's stance is basically "give us your technology or we'll steal your technology"? With the distinct possibility the technology will still be copied and stolen?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #170 on: December 14, 2018, 07:20:43 am »
Yes. And it's in Chinese law. If an IP product doesn't have a sales outlet in China, then it's fair game.

Shit, or get off the pot.
More like "Give me your money and I won't rob you. Maybe I'll still rob you."

It's funny that this attitude is probably one of the reasons technology is withheld from China.
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #171 on: December 14, 2018, 07:33:12 am »
And of course US corporations and the Goverment are pure and squeaky clean when it comes to respecting the IP of others.

As I mentioned several pages ago the US effectively stole the beginnings of it's rocketry and space program from the Germans as did the Russians on the other side. Add to this whatever else they have 'borrowed' from the USSR since by covert means.

It was then the turn of Evil Japanese to have a trade war with http://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1987/12/21/69996/index.htm

Lets come forward to the pure shiny white beacons of hypocrisy https://www.foxnews.com/politics/small-businesses-claim-us-government-stealing-their-ideas

Huawei Getting Hacked by the NSA https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-chinese-servers-seen-as-spy-peril.html

That's without even going into internal USA corporate IP theft.

Anyone seeing a pattern of the Pot Calling the Kettle Black here and History repeating itself?

Perhaps this time around it has just been more obvious due to the massive scale it is on.

Using a defense of 'Our countries Laws say it is ok' doesn't make it morally and legally right either as it crosses borders in the case of China-USA!
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 07:42:15 am by beanflying »
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #172 on: December 14, 2018, 07:47:53 am »
A more apt example would be how the US stole supersonic technology from the Brits. The Americans essentially dotted the i's and claimed the whole thing. Fairly dickish move, all things considered.

"In 1944, design work was considered 90 per cent complete and Miles was told to proceed with the construction of a total of three prototype M.52s. Later that year, the Air Ministry signed an agreement with the United States to exchange high-speed research and data. Miles Chief Aerodynamicist Dennis Bancroft stated that the Bell Aircraft company was given access to the drawings and research on the M.52; however, the U.S. reneged on the agreement and no data was forthcoming in return."
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #173 on: December 14, 2018, 07:55:03 am »
You also got screwed about the same time over the Nuclear technology some of your scientists helped create if memory serves me correctly by the US?
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #174 on: December 14, 2018, 08:00:15 am »
It's more like I have the money, whatever amount you want, but give me your IP, or I will rob it.
The point is that it's the opposite of a false dilemma. It looks like a choice but it's no choice at all. China is muscling in, which is why others are muscling it out.
 


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