Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry

[IconicPCB]

Yeah ..imagine what a great place america would be with all those 20 milion  injuns alive and kicking

[beanflying]

Considering you list your country as Zimbabwe @coppercone2 your own countries last 50 or so years as far from perfect as regards killing each other regardless of which if any side you personally are on. The repressions of both sides and deaths while on a smaller scale still run toward systematic genocide.

We are all the sum of our pasts and our forbearers and their deeds and misdeeds.

[coppercone2]

Yeah ..imagine what a great place america would be with all those 20 milion  injuns alive and kicking

do I have a remembrance day I celebrate for some insane sea captains that decided to wage biological warfare on the native population? i like thanksgiving inb4 some one starts saying colonial gangsters were shaking down native people for food

[coppercone2]

I am waiting for some china troll to post a picture of columbus ( yea I know your gonna say columbus day) sitting around on his ship looking at biowar plots and signing off on purges.


(like there is actually evidence of Chinese government officials doing). Ok maybe not advanced for bio war, more like deputizing death squads red guards to beat people with sticks and throw them outside windows. Thats like 'oh shit my department is doing bad i better hang out some pink slips so I can run this thing by myself so no one finds my dirty laundry, I can't risk sharing control'

[coppercone2]

Yeah ..imagine what a great place america would be with all those 20 milion  injuns alive and kicking

australia would be nice with all those aboriginals

[cdev]

coppercone2 please stop- are you trying to get this thread locked?

Beanflying, look back to the beginning of March 2016

How it started to heat up and when  https://www.wto.org/english/news_e/news18_e/ds565rfc_27aug18_e.htm

---------
Facts are for most of us zero difference to our work or daily lives or access to anything we need. There is always another way to get it done that is why we are Engineers.

The one from 2016 would impact engineers and many other professionals a LOT more than the one you pointed to. Globally.

[beanflying]

Most likely.

I can't be arsed reading them all but there would have to be a heap of tit for tat in this list by a heap of countries against each other https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_by_country_e.htm#chn

The USA with 23 leads China with 15 to save you all needing to look. Yeah they win 

[cdev]

India filed it.

Then look on the net for info on the US dispute with the WTO over Appellate judges for the Dispute Settlement Body.

Here is the problem, they set up this whole system which goes around democracy, has the potential to do some pretty distressing things, and didn't tell our countr(ies) a thing about it.

It seems this is the case in the UK too. There the implications are even worse, I think.

Nobody even understands what I am trying to explain, its that bad.

They aren't ready for it, thats for sure.  Neither are we, here. But we're getting it force fed to us.

BTW, as I tried repeatedly to post this, I have to keep restarting my DNS server so it can load the root zone data. Thats the only way I can post. There is some serious DNS something going on right now.

Ive been dealing with it a lot. I think its some censorship related thing because it only happens when I try to discuss this particular issue, in its many flavors.

Quick course in this thing.

[blueskull]

do you call killing something like 20 mil people during a reign to be some how atonable by deeds?

If it is the only way, then it is necessary. When the PRC was founded, most bright brains went to Taiwan, and US refuses to supply any support without the CCP surrenders its dictatorship. USSR gave limited support, and then took it away since China insisted to stay independent, instead of being another USSR state.

With no one to help and with the founding fathers not willing to give up their power (which no founding fathers of any country would ever do), China's only way was to favor technology development and self-supporting over human living condition.

Now if you can propose a good way to keep the West away from China and to keep China independent without having to starve people for forging steel, please do. If not, then just STFU.

Considering you list your country as Zimbabwe @coppercone2 your own countries last 50 or so years as far from perfect as regards killing each other regardless of which if any side you personally are on.

Risking getting banned for doxing, I have to point out that he lives in US. I've traded items with him, and he was so broken that PP refused to let him to receive money.

Also from the posts he made before, I think he worked for the military on some RF things, then left being a mad scientist, wanking on high end RF porns, without having the money to implement them.

And he blames China for competing with US letting him to lose his income to support his mad science endeavor, just like Russia did before.

Now listen, we came to the US for replacing people like you. Chinese, Indians, you name it. We came to work, gave the best labor with the least money, to phase out less competitive locallers.

The work is always given to the lowest bidder with best offerings. If you can't compete, you are welcomed to be phased out.

There is a reason why California is the most developed place in the world. Competitiveness. Open to immigration and all new ideas, and f*ck the Republicans.

[beanflying]

Regardless of who lives where and why at this point in time. To claim one side did X without acknowledging what was done before or since is more than a little Hypocritical and one sided. Translated to a Chinese sized population the Zimbabwean mess of the last 50 'ish years would run into millions of deaths too with an effective Dictatorship in control after deposing the preceding repressive regime. None of this is anywhere near on topic so apologies to all.

At least in China you don't have to worry about the Election Cycle. Just two more years for the USA to wait 

[Mr. Scram]

1. I agree. My guess the end of the trade war is China will give up stealing western IPs tp certain degree, under a condition that the West promises never to sanction China by limiting high tech export to China. From Chinese government's perspective, the West uses high tech sanction to protest dictatorship and Taiwan problem. If China is given a green unconditionally on high tech, China will have no excuse to fund cloning of Western technology.

2. BS. If you can't compete, you deserve to die. China will deal with pollution and many other social problems, but human competing and phasing out human will never change. That's the thrust of natural selection.

3. Politicians know what is good for the human as a race, not the humanity BS. If evolution requires, everyone not up to the standard should and can die.

So China's stance is basically "give us your technology or we'll steal your technology"? With the distinct possibility the technology will still be copied and stolen?

[blueskull]

So China's stance is basically "give us your technology or we'll steal your technology"? With the distinct possibility the technology will still be copied and stolen?

Yes. And it's in Chinese law. If an IP product doesn't have a sales outlet in China, then it's fair game.

Shit, or get off the pot.

[Mr. Scram]

Yes. And it's in Chinese law. If an IP product doesn't have a sales outlet in China, then it's fair game.

Shit, or get off the pot.

More like "Give me your money and I won't rob you. Maybe I'll still rob you."

It's funny that this attitude is probably one of the reasons technology is withheld from China.

[beanflying]

And of course US corporations and the Goverment are pure and squeaky clean when it comes to respecting the IP of others.

As I mentioned several pages ago the US effectively stole the beginnings of it's rocketry and space program from the Germans as did the Russians on the other side. Add to this whatever else they have 'borrowed' from the USSR since by covert means.

It was then the turn of Evil Japanese to have a trade war with http://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1987/12/21/69996/index.htm

Lets come forward to the pure shiny white beacons of hypocrisy https://www.foxnews.com/politics/small-businesses-claim-us-government-stealing-their-ideas

Huawei Getting Hacked by the NSA https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-chinese-servers-seen-as-spy-peril.html

That's without even going into internal USA corporate IP theft.

Anyone seeing a pattern of the Pot Calling the Kettle Black here and History repeating itself?

Perhaps this time around it has just been more obvious due to the massive scale it is on.

Using a defense of 'Our countries Laws say it is ok' doesn't make it morally and legally right either as it crosses borders in the case of China-USA!

[Mr. Scram]

A more apt example would be how the US stole supersonic technology from the Brits. The Americans essentially dotted the i's and claimed the whole thing. Fairly dickish move, all things considered.

"In 1944, design work was considered 90 per cent complete and Miles was told to proceed with the construction of a total of three prototype M.52s. Later that year, the Air Ministry signed an agreement with the United States to exchange high-speed research and data. Miles Chief Aerodynamicist Dennis Bancroft stated that the Bell Aircraft company was given access to the drawings and research on the M.52; however, the U.S. reneged on the agreement and no data was forthcoming in return."

[blueskull]

Yes. And it's in Chinese law. If an IP product doesn't have a sales outlet in China, then it's fair game.

Shit, or get off the pot.

More like "Give me your money and I won't rob you. Maybe I'll still rob you."

It's funny that this attitude is probably one of the reasons technology is withheld from China.

It's more like I have the money, whatever amount you want, but give me your IP, or I will rob it.

[beanflying]

You also got screwed about the same time over the Nuclear technology some of your scientists helped create if memory serves me correctly by the US?

[Mr. Scram]

It's more like I have the money, whatever amount you want, but give me your IP, or I will rob it.

The point is that it's the opposite of a false dilemma. It looks like a choice but it's no choice at all. China is muscling in, which is why others are muscling it out.

[coppice]

A more apt example would be how the US stole supersonic technology from the Brits. The Americans essentially dotted the i's and claimed the whole thing. Fairly dickish move, all things considered.

"In 1944, design work was considered 90 per cent complete and Miles was told to proceed with the construction of a total of three prototype M.52s. Later that year, the Air Ministry signed an agreement with the United States to exchange high-speed research and data. Miles Chief Aerodynamicist Dennis Bancroft stated that the Bell Aircraft company was given access to the drawings and research on the M.52; however, the U.S. reneged on the agreement and no data was forthcoming in return."

Britain handed over gas turbine technology and actual engine designs to Russia as well. I've never even seen an attempt at trying to explain a strategy behind this. Then Britain wondered why it was sinking into irrelevance in the modern world.

[edy]

Back to Mrs. Wanzhou, so Canadian and American officials meeting over next few days in Washington to decide what to do with the situation, and how to guarantee the release of the Canadians that were arrested as well. A prisoner swap may be in order but Americans would never agree, there is no way to know if China will comply on their end and Canada needs the US to help them as they have the muscle to deal with China, although it seems Canada can no longer rely on US under Trump as an ally. Look what happened with Saudi Arabia criticism by Canada for human rights abuses... Diplomats ambassadors kicked out, and foreign students and investments withdrawn, while US stood by silently and even in support of Saudi regime (since they give us cheap oil and buy our weapons - good for business - if we don't do it someone else will). Now if Canada complies as it most likely will, US gets their bargaining chip, works out a better trade deal, Canada gets shafted by both China and US for the long haul. Will be interesting to see what happens as this story continues to develop.  ...it's a good thing Canadians have weed... going to need it... 

[Gribo]

Sadly (Or luckily), Canada doesn't have a list of targets.

[BravoV]

... Canada gets shafted by both China and US for the long haul ...

That is the price that Canada has to pay as US puppy, too bad, imho, you guys Canuckians are not under big threat say like Russia on your Europeans counterparts, and your land and soil is well protected by Pacific & Atlantic oceans, why need to hide under the Uncle Sam's arm pit for protection ? 


Read here recent development -> Yale’s Stephen Roach questions why Huawei has been ‘singled out’ for sanctions violation

Quote :

...  “A number of financial institutions, including JP Morgan, Bank of America, Wells Fargo and international banks, were all judged guilty and paid enormous fines for violating sanctions in the last several years, ” Roach told CNBC’s Eunice Yoon on Friday. “None of their executives, of course, went to jail — why is Huawei being singled out for the sanctions violations?” ....


No offence, I'm not buying on Canada's crap at abiding & upholding laws superiority as an excuse to publicly kidnap foreign citizen.

[Mr. Scram]

The US did arrest the Volkswagen CEO for the diesel emissions scandal.

[jmelson]

As I mentioned several pages ago the US effectively stole the beginnings of it's rocketry and space program from the Germans as did the Russians on the other side. Add to this whatever else they have 'borrowed' from the USSR since by covert means.

Wait a minute!  The Germans STARTED a war, which by THEIR actions eventually involved almost the whole world.  Then, they LOST that war.  Germany was divvied up by the victors and occupied, as a defeated power.  The victors de-milled Germany to prevent them becoming a military power again.

This is ALL very different from "stealing" technology.

Jon

[cdev]

The leadership of the German rocket scientists were eager to surrender to the Americans. And not the Red Army. For very good reasons.