Author Topic: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.  (Read 36833 times)

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Offline slipjointedTopic starter

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HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« on: October 21, 2011, 05:28:30 pm »
edit: 10/22/11, Extech has contacted me and resolved the situation beyond my satisfaction. My response and further details can be found starting at post #39.

edit2: 10/24/11, I recieved further contact from Extech, see post #56

So,

I just aquired an Extech EX505. The meter came with a couple of the screws for the back partially stripped. They don't look like they were stripped by repeated assembly/dissassembly, more like by an idiot with a power screwdriver in the production facility.

This morning I called Extech to get a couple of replacement screws for the meter. I asked the lady if I could be sent replacement screws, and she said no, they don't carry any parts besides leads. Then I was transferred to a VERY rude guy in tech, that said even if they did have the screws, I'd have to buy them; there's no way they'd just send me 10 cents of screws like ANY normal company would.

He actually suggested that I drive down to Home Depot and buy new screws! Are you freaking kidding me!?!?! For those of you that aren't familiar with this meter, it uses a very specialized type of extended shank self tapping plastic screw, with a sealing ring and thick washer. You can't even buy plastic screws at home depot, let alone anything like this.

I asked him what the options were for an Extech owner if the screws were lost, and he said he could transfer me over to repair. Then I spoke with another lady that said she could replace the screws, but I would have to send the meter in and pay a $50 flat rate fee!!!!!


Please keep in mind, where I got the meter or whether it was still under warranty never came up here. Since the screws were stripped, no matter by who, it wasn't covered by warranty, so the flat rate repair still applied. These screws are very tight and difficult to remove without stripping, even with the proper sized driver. The heads are very soft, and stripped even more the one time I removed them. Please keep in mind, I've been in manufacturing for my entire career, I'm not the type that strips screws.

I am absolutely dumbfounded that a company owned by Flir, who has a large office in the USA, and sells electronics products that are designed and INTENDED to be taken apart occasionally when fuses need to be replaced, does not stock replacement screws for the back cover. I'm sorry, but that is the MOST amatuerish thing I've ever heard of in my entire life.

This isn't some no-name meter, it's a supposedly reputable USA based re-badger, and even if the meters all come from China, they have a responsibility to their customers to source the parts that their customers may need over the course of time.

If you are planning on buying an Extech, you should also plan on having a big ugly orange and green paperweight, after your second or third fuse change.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 07:38:56 pm by slipjointed »
 

Offline IanB

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2011, 05:35:40 pm »
This isn't some no-name meter
The sad truth is that Extech is now a no-name brand. It's unsatisfactory in design and construction as you see from the evidence in front of you.

I feel for your disappointment as we all like to feel we have some buying choices, and things costing a reasonable amount of money should have reasonable performance.

However, brand reputations are earned, not given.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 06:48:31 am by IanB »
 

Offline slipjointedTopic starter

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2011, 06:05:55 pm »
Luckily I have the means to repair it once the screws finally give out, I'm more concerned for those that recieve one of these meters and don't.

The screws are M2.5 x 20mm, but that isn't really a common length in that diameter (edit: for thread forming screws, it's pretty easy to get as a machine screw)

I may just end up drilling out the threads and machine some custom brass threaded inserts and just epoxy them in. That way I don't have to worry about it any more.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 06:11:36 pm by slipjointed »
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2011, 06:31:47 pm »
So much for their ISO 9001:2008  certification which some Extech guy wanted to sell us as the biggest thing since sliced bread when it comes to quality.

Extech sells all kinds of rebadged stuff, and that EX 505 looks pretty much like a QM1323, QM1543, or similar of unknown, maybe Asian, provenience.



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Offline hacklordsniper

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2011, 06:54:59 pm »
More and more often i encounter screws destroyed by power screw drivers and oftenly stripped so they cant be dissasembled anymore
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Offline saturation

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2011, 07:02:22 pm »
Using B@W point:

http://www.extech.com/global/misc/TUVcertificate.pdf

I would send an email letter of complaint to officers at Extech, and TUV, who certified them as

ISO.http://www.extech.com/iso9001.asp

Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline slipjointedTopic starter

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2011, 07:53:26 pm »
I guess "The Extech Advantage" is that when your Multimeter gets a stripped screw, it automatically converts into paperweight mode. :D
 

Offline IanB

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2011, 08:17:37 pm »
Using B@W point:

http://www.extech.com/global/misc/TUVcertificate.pdf

I would send an email letter of complaint to officers at Extech, and TUV, who certified them as

ISO.http://www.extech.com/iso9001.asp
There's a common misconception that ISO 9001 has anything to do with quality. It really doesn't.  All it defines is that there is a paper trail for every step of the production process. Somewhere in a filing cabinet is a piece of paper saying that a quality inspector noted the damaged screws and recorded the date, time and serial number in a log book as required by the inspection procedure  ::)
 

Offline slipjointedTopic starter

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2011, 08:34:35 pm »
Just to add to the thread a little, I called UEi for fun, and presented the hypothetical "missing screw" scenario.

They said that if the meter was in warranty, they would either send a new screw, or even possibly an entire new back assembly, but I could also send the meter in for free. I asked whether it mattered who stripped the screw and if that had an effect on warranty, and they said absolutely not.

Then I asked what would happen if the meter was out of warranty and needed a screw, and the lady said that it's pretty likely they would still send me any small replacement parts for free, or even larger replacement parts in special cases.

I guess it's not a worry anyways, because the UEi unit I was looking at from the review has threaded inserts, the way it should be done.


Looks like I'll be ditching this Extech and picking up a UEi.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2011, 09:54:56 pm »
Wow, that's BAD form.
Extech do read this forum, but I'll prod them anyway just in case they miss it.
And don't those screws have little o-rings on them too?

Dave.
 

Offline slipjointedTopic starter

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2011, 10:18:53 pm »
Wow, that's BAD form.
Extech do read this forum, but I'll prod them anyway just in case they miss it.
And don't those screws have little o-rings on them too?

Dave.

Even if I could manage to find M2.5 x 20mm thread forming screws as a stock item (which, evidently, is impossible), the washers that back the o-rings are a custom piece. They don't match any M2.5 washer I've ever used.

I should be able to call and get 25 cents worth of screws in the mail. I would glady pay for the screws too, if they were even willing to sell them to me.



What made me the most upset was that they didn't seem to have ANY desire to do anything past canned responses to help me. I called UEi this morning and they were practically running into the back to find screws for me until I caught them and told them it was a hypothetical question.

That isn't the only way Extech borked this deal though... I ordered the meter from tequipment.net on Oct. 10th, and was told the meter would ship from Extech no later than Oct. 13th. I called on Monday Oct. 17th for order status, and was told that the invoice had been sent to Extech, and that Extech had not shipped and that they had no explanation for why.

The rep contacted Extech and essentially got a shoulder shrug from them. I went ahead and cancelled my order, because I needed a meter to fix a piece of electronics, and can't wait based upon a shoulder shrug. I ended up having to source it locally.

The provenance of the meter never came up once in my discussions with Extech; I don't really think it matters. Replacing a missing screw should be pretty painless IMO. I was under the impression that Extech is a class-act based upon their advertising and subsiding under Flir, but I'm not so convinced any more.


 

Offline slipjointedTopic starter

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2011, 10:24:43 pm »
Sorry for the double post, for some reason the edit button is acting up on me.

I wanted to add, thanks for the reply Dave, I don't mean to be a negative nancy on your forum, I am just venting my frustrations from this morning.

I could return the meter, but this is more a matter of principle at the moment. I'm just used to dealing with companies that operate differently, I guess. Perhaps the best solution is to vote with my wallet and stop whining. :D

 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2011, 10:36:38 pm »
I could return the meter, but this is more a matter of principle at the moment. I'm just used to dealing with companies that operate differently, I guess. Perhaps the best solution is to vote with my wallet and stop whining. :D

No, don't stop whining, that's what's creates change and better equipment and better service for all of us.
Companies are used to sweeping stuff like this under the carpet, and that's what they hope you do, shut up and go away.
It's a different ball game these days, the people have a voice!
Yes, vote with your wallet, but never stop whining!

Dave.
 

Offline elliott

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2011, 10:44:19 pm »
I noticed the screws on my EX530 were soft and easy to strip too. I had a hard time finding a screw driver that fit the heads well enough that I felt comfortable removing them. The rubber seals on the screws are also crap, I plan on replacing them with real O-rings.
 

Offline Wartex

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2011, 11:04:37 pm »
Wow, that's BAD form.
Extech do read this forum, but I'll prod them anyway just in case they miss it.
And don't those screws have little o-rings on them too?

Dave.

Can you also prod BK Precision for lying to me on youtube stating that BK879 LCR meter is a new and original design when in reality it's  rebadged Tonghui TH2822B, which has been around forever.
 

Offline slipjointedTopic starter

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2011, 11:14:02 pm »
No, don't stop whining, that's what's creates change and better equipment and better service for all of us.
Companies are used to sweeping stuff like this under the carpet, and that's what they hope you do, shut up and go away.
It's a different ball game these days, the people have a voice!
Yes, vote with your wallet, but never stop whining!

Dave.

Ok, then alternatively, I'll try to whine as politely as possible. :)


I'd also like to add, if these were some pretty standard screws, say M2.5 x 10mm pan head machine screw, that could be picked up at any fastener supplier, I wouldn't even have made this post.

The problem here is that Extech is using a special proprietary screw in their meters, and a special proprietary screw with a head that strips easily to boot, yet are preventing their customers access to replacement screws. It really is just a poor way to do things.

If you aren't going to supply replacement fasteners to your customers, then you need to switch to a fastener that your customers are able to source easily.

I noticed the screws on my EX530 were soft and easy to strip too. I had a hard time finding a screw driver that fit the heads well enough that I felt comfortable removing them. The rubber seals on the screws are also crap, I plan on replacing them with real O-rings.

Yeah, for screws that need this amount of torque applied, the heads are far too soft.

Luckily I have a tremendous collection of phillips bits, the one that I found to work best on these particular screws was a DeWalt PH1 insert bit. One of the reasons many of these cheaper screws strip is that many PH1 drivers come to a point, but many cheap phillips screws have a flattened bottom in the cross, so the point prevents the drive tip from seating.

If you have trouble with screws, you can buy a cheap PH1 driver and use a sander to just nick off the tip, and it will seat and bite into the screw much better.

« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 11:16:30 pm by slipjointed »
 

Offline Joker94

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2011, 11:44:44 pm »
So what do people think this means for extech and purchasing extech multimeters?

I am not far off buying 2 decent multimeters, and from the research that i have done extech were at the top of my list. Do people still think buying an extech meter or 2 is worth it or is it time to look else were?

The reason a meter such as the BK precision meter is not at the top, same as the one featured in the 100 shoot out is that the only place i could order one from I would have to spend a min $300 plus postage, this is tequiptment. i understand this practice for international orders but for me it is not financially practical.

Cheers

Joker94
 

Offline elliott

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2011, 11:52:11 pm »
Other than the screw issue and the annoyingly short backlight timeout, I love my EX530 and for $150 it is really hard to beat.
 

Offline eternal_noob

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2011, 11:58:30 pm »
I'd also like to add, if these were some pretty standard screws, say M2.5 x 10mm pan head machine screw, that could be picked up at any fastener supplier, I wouldn't even have made this post.

The problem here is that Extech is using a special proprietary screw in their meters, and a special proprietary screw with a head that strips easily to boot, yet are preventing their customers access to replacement screws. It really is just a poor way to do things.

If you aren't going to supply replacement fasteners to your customers, then you need to switch to a fastener that your customers are able to source easily.

I feel your pain and I agree, slipjointed. But, why not use 3x6mm instead? Just plain pan headed philips screws you can buy almost anywhere and at least one in each corner. Sure, the srcew ''wells'' on the back would be rather large and perhaps not the prettiest thing. But who cares - most of us read the meter from the front anyway, or don't we?
Heck, I would give ten dollars extra for a meter with proper brass insert and ordinary screws. Nothing is more irritating than special screws and stripped plastic threads.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2011, 12:05:28 am »
So what do people think this means for extech and purchasing extech multimeters?

I am not far off buying 2 decent multimeters, and from the research that i have done extech were at the top of my list. Do people still think buying an extech meter or 2 is worth it or is it time to look else were?

Different people value different things differently.
Some may think a service and attitude issue like this is a HUGE deal (not to mention poor quality screws) and would turn them off for life.
Others might not care one hoot and only look at the bang-per-buck, of which the extech's score fairly high on.

The Extech would have won the $100 shootout, but I found too many little manufacturing issues with it, and it just didn't give me a good "vibe" for quality, as did say the UEI one.
Yes, I found the screws rather fiddly at the time, but I think I forgot to mention it?
And I did strip one of the screws later when I was taking it apart after the canyon trip.

Quote
The reason a meter such as the BK precision meter is not at the top, same as the one featured in the 100 shoot out is that the only place i could order one from I would have to spend a min $300 plus postage, this is tequiptment. i understand this practice for international orders but for me it is not financially practical.

Yeah, fair call, it ain't that good, there is fair bit of choice around these days.

Dave.
 

Offline IanB

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2011, 12:17:35 am »
Luckily I have a tremendous collection of phillips bits, the one that I found to work best on these particular screws was a DeWalt PH1 insert bit. One of the reasons many of these cheaper screws strip is that many PH1 drivers come to a point, but many cheap phillips screws have a flattened bottom in the cross, so the point prevents the drive tip from seating.
There are two potential points to be aware of here.

The first is that Phillips screwdrivers and screw heads come in different sizes (#0, #1, #2, #3, etc.) and it is essential to match the right screwdriver with the right head. The flattened bottom is typically the result of needing a larger size (smaller size number) of screwdriver. I have never had a problem getting an exact fit as long as I have picked the right size screwdriver. If the screwdriver seems too pointed it is the wrong size for the screw.

The second problem is that Phillips screws are seemingly universal in the USA, but basically unheard of in the UK (and perhaps the rest of Europe and other parts of the world). On the other hand a related screw head, the Pozidriv head, is more or less universal in the UK, and yet never seen by me in the USA. The challenge is that the screws and screwdrivers are not compatible. A Phillips screwdriver will not work properly with a Pozidriv screw.

This means that products originating outside the USA may have a cross head screw that is not a Phillips screw; it could be Pozidriv, or JIS standard, or some other standard. Stripping screw heads is easy if you use the wrong screwdriver for the screw head. Luckily for me I have Pozidriv tools brought from the UK and Phillips tools obtained in the USA, so I can deal with all screws.

So in summary: not all cross head screws are Phillips screws, and even if they are the different sizes are not compatible with a single screwdriver.
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2011, 01:09:20 am »
The Extech would have won the $100 shootout, but I found too many little manufacturing issues with it,

I am rather sure Extech doesn't manufacture the EX505 on their own. Their whole EX 500 series, like the EX530 is just too similar this this no-name meters http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=QM1543&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=1060#1
http://www.aiworkwear.co.uk/902/1760-rms-industrial-digital-multimeter-beta-from-ai-workwear
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 01:18:34 am by BoredAtWork »
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Offline grenert

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2011, 01:13:30 am »
Nice summary, IanB.  I learned this the hard way stripping some Pozidriv screws on an old Fluke meter.  I now have both Pozidriv and JIS sets ;) 
Here's a Pozidriv head (note the "X" on the head at 45 degrees to the cross), and a JIS screw (with small dot on the head):
 

Offline slipjointedTopic starter

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2011, 03:37:17 am »
Luckily I have a tremendous collection of phillips bits, the one that I found to work best on these particular screws was a DeWalt PH1 insert bit. One of the reasons many of these cheaper screws strip is that many PH1 drivers come to a point, but many cheap phillips screws have a flattened bottom in the cross, so the point prevents the drive tip from seating.
There are two potential points to be aware of here.

The first is that Phillips screwdrivers and screw heads come in different sizes (#0, #1, #2, #3, etc.) and it is essential to match the right screwdriver with the right head. The flattened bottom is typically the result of needing a larger size (smaller size number) of screwdriver. I have never had a problem getting an exact fit as long as I have picked the right size screwdriver. If the screwdriver seems too pointed it is the wrong size for the screw.

The second problem is that Phillips screws are seemingly universal in the USA, but basically unheard of in the UK (and perhaps the rest of Europe and other parts of the world). On the other hand a related screw head, the Pozidriv head, is more or less universal in the UK, and yet never seen by me in the USA. The challenge is that the screws and screwdrivers are not compatible. A Phillips screwdriver will not work properly with a Pozidriv screw.

This means that products originating outside the USA may have a cross head screw that is not a Phillips screw; it could be Pozidriv, or JIS standard, or some other standard. Stripping screw heads is easy if you use the wrong screwdriver for the screw head. Luckily for me I have Pozidriv tools brought from the UK and Phillips tools obtained in the USA, so I can deal with all screws.

So in summary: not all cross head screws are Phillips screws, and even if they are the different sizes are not compatible with a single screwdriver.


I've worked in electronics manufacturing my entire career, so I've seen an ungodly number of different fasteners and drivers. I have standard phillips, Pozidriv, JIS, Frearson, mixed Pozi, as well as quite a few in other drive styles.

What you are saying is perfectly legitimate, assuming everyone is playing nice and abiding by manufacturing standards. The problem is, oftentimes cheap Chinese screws don't match *any* drive standard. They're just mystery China drive. Same goes for cheap insert bits and screwdriver tips.

Some of these less reputable manufacturers think "plus shaped" is a good enough standard for their screw heads.

While the majority of any given driver size, such as PH1, are very similar, there can sometimes be very large differences between different manufacturers. My PB swiss and Wiha drivers have fairly different tapers on the PH2 tips. I wish I could find it, but a guy on a tool forum I frequent posted pictures of a bunch of different premium screwdriver tips next to each other...  not one was identical. They were all close to identical, but each would have a slightly different fit characteristic.

Because of the problems encountered with cheap screws, sometimes it's best to just have a few of each drive type from different manufacturers.



The best way to preven screw stripping in addition to knowing your fasteners, is to purchase quality fasteners and drivers from reputable companies that keep good quality control during manufacturing... without that, all the special screwdrivers in the world won't save you. :)

« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 03:43:04 am by slipjointed »
 

Offline hacklordsniper

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Re: HUGE thumbs down for Extech.
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2011, 05:07:22 am »
For fun i e-mailed fluke and asked about screw replacement on on my scopemeter which "i stripped" I allready recieved an e-mail with a "exploded" scopemeter view and asked to write them part numbers to immeadately order screws from Fluke Netherlands and deliver them to me free of any charge. I was also asked to ship old screws back to check for any possible screw manufacturing defect via their prepaid post account.

This is why its always better to consider purchasing instrument from reliable, long time players than rebadgers of China crap.
Oh, the joy of sending various electronics to silicon heaven
 


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