Author Topic: I constantly getting shocks from electrostatic charge - what can i do ?  (Read 3894 times)

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Offline cdev

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Re: I constantly getting shocks from electrostatic charge - what can i do ?
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2021, 02:53:01 am »
Could you see if consuming (orally) some n-acetyl-cysteine (NAC) helps?

I think maybe two big OOO caps is an appropriate amount, every couple of hours. might help. This also helps reduce the discomfort and hearing damage caused by very loud sounds, and I suspect sensitivity felt by some people to some frequencies of RF. (duck)

Hi,
At first sorry if i am using not the correct terms but english is not my native language...

Your English is fine. don't worry about it.

"I think its something everyone knows...  especially when the air humidity is low you walk through your flat, touch something which is grounded and BAM, you got an electric shock".  Not just that, you are hypersensitive to it. I sus[ect that may be caused by low glutathione.

I will try to find some good explanation of why I suspect this.
Since a while i am having ths problem... but only at my desk.

I never get any shock when touching the water tap, doors, kitchen appliances...  never.
But when i sit down at my desk and touch my keyboard i get shocked.
Sometimes its that strong that my lighted keyboard goes off or the monitor blanks out for a few seconds.
Some day it will destroy my computer i guess   :scared:

So usually when i sit down i grab a metal paperclip or something and touch the ground of one of my socket outlets at the desk.
Then i can also see a spark but dont feel the shock.
After that everything is fine.

So i thought it would be good to get an ESD mat for my desk.
I put the mat on the desk under the keyboard and the mat is connected to ground.
Now i get a shock including spark when i touch the mat after sitting down.
I measured the resistance and from the mat to ground its only 100 Kilo Ohm.
So i guess the resistance should be higher ? The usual Adapter plugs i found online have 1 Mega Ohm, but the one which came with the mat has only 100k.
Would that help or would i still get a a shock ?

Btw, when i measure the resistance between ground and the keyboard its out of range.
The keyboard is obviously plastic and there is also no resistance measurable between any parts of the keyboard.
How can i get a shock when touching it ?

Any hint what i can do ?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 02:56:46 am by cdev »
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Offline DrG

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Re: I constantly getting shocks from electrostatic charge - what can i do ?
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2021, 03:42:09 am »
I have no pets at home...  and my computer is grounded well...  not sure about my keyboard...
Cant imagine how the keyboard would charge up, just connected by usb cable.
Also there is discharge when i touch the socket ground...  Hmmm...

Right now its mostly okay, because air humidity is a little bit higher at around 40%.

It sounds a little strange but the RH clue makes me think that it is the same kinds of static electricity annoyance that we all get. Why it is in that one area more than any other is a puzzle, but it is possible that it is a particularly dry area of the place.

You already received suggestions of raising the RH. I would add some anti-static spray and see if it makes a difference. I used to make this by just adding liquid fabric softener to water in a spray bottle. I am sure that there are recipes on YouTube and elsewhere.  The stuff works, but you are spraying a thin layer of film all over. Even though it is probably pretty safe and cleans up easily, it still spraying junk all around. You can test it out by taking one of those drier sheets, if you have one handy, and vigorously rubbing it with your hands. Wash up afterwards.

I used to use it sparingly but there were times in one place I lived where it was just so bad that I had to do something.

Before doing that, if you so choose, I would at least run the experiment of disconnecting everything that is powered from that desk and see if there is any change.

Hope it helps.
- Invest in science - it pays big dividends. -
 
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Offline cdev

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Re: I constantly getting shocks from electrostatic charge - what can i do ?
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2021, 10:05:37 pm »
There is a specific kind of ionizer that emits both kinds of ions at the same time not just one, and this reduces ESD. And of course humidity in the air does something similar.

What I am thinking is that it must be possible to make this kind of ionizer cheaply. There really isnt that much in them.
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Offline jmelson

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Re: I constantly getting shocks from electrostatic charge - what can i do ?
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2021, 04:10:28 pm »
Increasing humidity is good, and it helps your health, too.

If you can stand it being ugly, get a metal desk.  Touch the desk first, before the computer.  if necessary, ground the desk to the mains earth with a 1 Meg Ohm resistor.

We have something in the US called Carbona, it is a spray-on anti-static material that women use to stop static charging of nylons and skirst with synthetic fiber.  They likely have something like that available in the EU, also.  Spray it on your chair, maybe the floor around the chair, etc.

Jon
 

Offline cdev

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Re: I constantly getting shocks from electrostatic charge - what can i do ?
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2021, 10:34:06 pm »
I have the opposite problem. I bought a de-humidifier for it. It cost money, it benefits the entire house.

Nusa, gave you what be my first suggest. humidifier, or tray of water if heater nearby.

 james_s would be the next -wear cotton. If you're doing the COVID stay-at-home thing, then make sure your bathrobe and pajamas are all cotton. none of this mixed fibers BS  :scared:

cdev has a good suggestion an air ionzier. It is a negative ion generator. Not the other anti-static type they create that toxic type of oxygen..Not hard to build one either.
However, do keep keep near your work area. They also pull out even tiny dust and it is a pain to clean that type. If DIYing, include a positive, or is it a grounding collector next to, or a part of it.( Not sure how to build that part). IT pulls in most the the dust laden particles

-Several have suggested bare feet, another is is just a piece of metal, or aluminum plate on the floor where you place your feet. DO NOT ground that to building electrical earth, thoug. A "feel good safer" option, is a small cotton throw rug under your feet.

james_s & CDS_Torsten Also have pointed out the chair, most modern office chairs use synthetic materials, quick solution is cover the seat and back with cotten cloth. I have some all clothe restaurant napkin over the seat and I seem to use the back for hanging a cotton shirt and my hoodie.

And geggi1 is correct, today all carpets are or at least have synthetic materials

May process would be in sequence.
1.)  All cotton chair, cotton clothes, cotton rug,
2.) humidifier/evaporator tray of water,
3.)rug or metal plate/rubber shoes,
4.) negative ion-generator.

 The ion generator may be a "go ahead and do anyway", keeps the air clean and nice. just put in middle or room or near the opposite room

Hope all this helps, I cannot think of anything beyond what has already been suggested

Let us know how you solved it!

Negative ions are not the kind that reduces ESD (neutralizes charges). I think what the ESD reduction products  generate are both kinds at the same time.. (racemic) non-polar discharges.

Look around for ESD reduction products that are patented and look up the patents. . The kinds of ionizers that are used in electronics manufacturing and cost an arm and a leg are what you should try building for your own use.. (I'm not suggesting you violate anybody's IP. )

. What I am thinking is that no kind of ionizer seems like it would cost that much to make. ...yourself.

I had a bad experience decades ago that messed up my health badly and I think a negative ionizer made it worse.

This situation benefited greatly from work that was done gratis by two labs and a number of very nice people who tried to help us sort it out. It would not have been horrid as it was were it not for very irresponsible real estate rental managers who viewed tenants as having stayed too long if they paid rent on time and simply lived responsibly in apartments. What they wanted is constant churn, so the resents kept rising along with the going rate.  All of the tenants in that building were. All had decent jobs, were quiet, didnt damage things.

They wanted churn.

Rents at the time was rising into the stratosphere in one of the most outrageous housing situations in the world. 20% a year was not unusual in apartments that were not under rent stabilization laws. . I lived in that apartment for basically a decade, always paid rent on time.

The problem was an infestation with toxic mold in the building. This was not only irritating to your eyes and nose , it was literally toxic.
As mentioned negative charges pull tiny dust particles out of the air and they are attracted to the walls and wherever the ionizer is located (nearby walls) especially to anything thats grounded, like wires and the inside of electronics. Well in the apartment I used to live in's attic there was a lot of toxic black mold. It emits toxic satratoxin h, around the 60th most toxic thing known.

Anyway, the ionizer makes the tiny particles of this toxin (and it is a real toxin, produced by a mold to kill off all other living things, in proportion to the humidity level. Its not imaginary. It can kill. Its officially a bioweapon.)

The mold produces this toxin as part of a polysaccharide matrix. a greasy sugar like crystalline coating on the outside of its spores. Most of the toxin ends up in microscopic particles in the air. The smaller the particles, the more toxic they are to you. And the more influenced they are by negative ions. (they are positively charged, especially if you are near the ocean.

They are powerfully attracted to hair. cables of all kinds, electronics, and generally anything that they encounter while floating around in the air.
It turned out they were present in large quantities on my large collection of cables of all kinds. I attempted to clean them off using a dilute ammonia solution and damp rages and thick rubber gloves. But after answering a phone call on my cell phone I accidentally put one of the rubber gloves I was wearing (the kinds that lab workers wear, not the thin nitrile gloves. inside out getting that stuff on my hand. In around three or four minutes the hand just started to hurt. A lot. I took it off and washed my hand and the glove off with soap and water. Within the next coupe of minutes my hand turned bright scarlet red and started to feel swollen.

I'll never make that mistake again. Anyway, this is only the one electronics related episode of many bizarre things that happened then. Just a few days after this happened, we decided to move out of this apartment. We were told by the two labs that were helping us that we had to move for good because they would never be able to clean up up adequately without tearing the building down to studs which we knew they would NEVER do. To them we were the problem for complaining. We moved into a tiny, unbelievably expensive studio and then knowing we could never afford an adequate place to live and tired of the housing wars, out of the area. 


I would advise not humidifying because of the aforementioned experience. Humidity=mold which is potentially very unhealthy. It might be one of the least healthy things you encounter in life.

« Last Edit: March 27, 2021, 10:57:56 pm by cdev »
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Offline Nusa

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Re: I constantly getting shocks from electrostatic charge - what can i do ?
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2021, 11:08:12 pm »
Humidity=mold

That is no more true than water = drowning or heat = fire. EXCESSIVE humidity is one of several requirements for mold to grow.

Some humidity is required for comfort. In winter climates, often the natural humidity is below the comfort level.

The subject of this thread was humidity levels low enough to cause static issues, so much as you love your anecdote, it does not apply to this situation.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: I constantly getting shocks from electrostatic charge - what can i do ?
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2021, 12:34:59 am »
Humidity=mold toxicity


I sho0uld have made my assertion a little bit clearer.. This is not well known but some sets of conditions are almost guaranteed to create toxic molds that can persistfor hndreds of years and are almost impossible to clean away.

- theres an exponential relationship between toxin production and well cavity relative humidity. . Very high humidity is the only environment the sick building problem occurs under (usually in closed wall compartments, when water wicks up through gypsum wallboard. inside those wall cavities the humidity approaches 100% The toxin production is metabolically expensive for mold so it wont do it unless it sees it as necessary. It becomes an arms race for survival between molds and we are the collateral damage.

>That is no more true than water = drowning or heat = fire. EXCESSIVE humidity is one of several requirements for mold to grow.

You got it.. That and the presence of a suitable medium for it to grow on cellulose (paper) and gypsum wallboard is ideal mold food.

>Some humidity is required for comfort. In winter climates, often the natural humidity is below the comfort level.

The subject of this thread was humidity levels low enough to cause static issues, so much as you love your anecdote, it does not apply to this situation.
[/quote]

Yes, but there is a kind of ionizer that neutralizes static charges, its unreasonably expensive so not being used. There is a possibility for a useful aid to makers, perhaps there.

The information a previous poster posted (thet negative ions neutralize ESD was wrong.. As I understand it, its a different kind of ionizer.

Whats more the negative ions attract possibly dangerous dusts.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2021, 12:46:46 am by cdev »
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