Author Topic: I died a little inside today.  (Read 36540 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31246
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #75 on: April 05, 2013, 10:11:13 am »
'Theft by finding'... got to love the Law. That's law in Australia too.
Oh for... wait, did I register here under the name 'google' by mistake?

The "Theft by Finding" law AFAIK has to do with items that have been lost by someone, not items have have been (legally? and clearly) discarded by someone.
Once again, show me someone who has been convicted of legitimate dumpster diving without trespassing.
 

Offline nanofrog

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5448
  • Country: us
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #76 on: April 05, 2013, 10:30:00 am »
'Theft by finding'... got to love the Law. That's law in Australia too.
Oh for... wait, did I register here under the name 'google' by mistake?

The "Theft by Finding" law AFAIK has to do with items that have been lost by someone, not items have have been (legally? and clearly) discarded by someone.
Once again, show me someone who has been convicted of legitimate dumpster diving without trespassing.
From what I gathered from the linked articles, it seems there's a monetary incentive for the local council's (selling working items) as well as the collection companies. Makes more sense to me at any rate, rather than trespassing on government property, making a mess (public nuisance?), or other such nonsense IMHO.

I could *perhaps* see injuries as a liability issue, assuming Oz is as burdened as the US regarding frivolous law suites over the perpetrators own stupidity. But there wasn't any mention of this in either the articles or the comments below.
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31246
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #77 on: April 05, 2013, 10:37:32 am »
From what I gathered from the linked articles, it seems there's a monetary incentive for the local council's (selling working items) as well as the collection companies. Makes more sense to me at any rate, rather than trespassing on government property, making a mess (public nuisance?), or other such nonsense IMHO.

If the local councils are making money or getting a kickback from curbside collection items then that would be quite the scandal...

Quote
I could *perhaps* see injuries as a liability issue, assuming Oz is as burdened as the US regarding frivolous law suites over the perpetrators own stupidity. But there wasn't any mention of this in either the articles or the comments below.

Thankfully it is not.
There was hint of it about a decade back, it threatened to shut down almost the entire adventure industry (due to not being able to get insurance) among others like local councils being sued for tripping on a footpath or whatever, but the government swiftly passed laws that stopped it in it's tracks.
Basically now says that you are responsible for your own stupidity. The party you are trying to sue must have knowingly and wilfully done something they know would cause you harm.
 

Offline nanofrog

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5448
  • Country: us
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #78 on: April 05, 2013, 10:54:08 am »
If the local councils are making money or getting a kickback from curbside collection items then that would be quite the scandal...
"He said councils often recycled kerbside materials or sold it onto other dealers,...", which was a comment from Sen-Constable Beveridge (3rd paragraph from the bottom).
Source: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/man-arrested-for-allegedly-stealing-vaccum-from-mooroolbark-rubbish/story-e6frf7l6-1226025965308)

This is where I interpreted they're making money on it.

As per the frivolous law suites, I'm glad to hear it.  :) I just wish the mess here would be sorted with such swift and definitive action. Unfortunately, there's no indication this will ever happen (too many lawyers here lobbying to keep this, as there's too much money at stake for them).
 

Online aargee

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 750
  • Country: au
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #79 on: April 05, 2013, 10:57:42 am »
We've just moved office, which entails a whole lot of close your eyes and chuck it out. I did a bit of dumpster diving/diverting but the garage is only so big  :-//
The other thing is that we had some severe flooding her a couple of years ago, most houses hauled out their contents to the footpath to be destined for landfill. There was a lot of recoverable stuff, electrical and otherwise, but if you touched anything it was classed as looting! That was quite likely a court appearance if caught.
Not easy, not hard, just need to be incentivised.
 

Offline amyk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6767
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #80 on: April 05, 2013, 11:09:11 am »
I feel so strongly that there should be laws against this sort of destruction... sounds like we need a SPCE -- Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Electronics :D

It's odd that the situation in the East looks like the opposite extreme: equipment, components, etc. get recycled and reused even if they're defective, which is why you see stories about counterfeit/remarked/etc. parts. But I think environmentally and sustainably, that is still far better alternative than destroying perfectly good equipment.

Philosophical question: is it stealing if you're depriving the owner of property that the owner doesn't want? :o
 

Offline nanofrog

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5448
  • Country: us
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #81 on: April 05, 2013, 11:18:22 am »
Philosophical question: is it stealing if you're depriving the owner of property that the owner doesn't want? :o
This is where it gets interesting from how I'm reading the articles though. As I read it, once an item is placed on the curb (public land), ownership is transferred to the local council by the act of setting it down on that land. And since they're apparently selling anything possible out of it, they want that additional income. Hence laws passed making it illegal for someone to walk by and take it.

For some strange reason, I can't help but think of the council equivalent to a 5 y/o on a playground saying "MINE! Hands off!".  :o  :P
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31246
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #82 on: April 05, 2013, 11:49:22 am »
This is where it gets interesting from how I'm reading the articles though. As I read it, once an item is placed on the curb (public land), ownership is transferred to the local council by the act of setting it down on that land. And since they're apparently selling anything possible out of it, they want that additional income. Hence laws passed making it illegal for someone to walk by and take it.

Here in Australia any such "law" would come under local council regulations. And AFAIK, the issue is not that it becomes the councils property (I have yet to see anything that says it does), the law simply exists in order to protect the resident from people rummaging through your regular garbage bins. e.g. going through your recycling bin to steal your identity or whatever, or celebrities garbage etc. So if the resident doesn't press charges, end of story.
And once again, I have yet to hear of anyone in this country ever being convicted for simply taking curbside rubbish. It is in fact a widely practised and socially accepted thing to do.

 

Offline nanofrog

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5448
  • Country: us
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #83 on: April 05, 2013, 12:26:55 pm »
This is where it gets interesting from how I'm reading the articles though. As I read it, once an item is placed on the curb (public land), ownership is transferred to the local council by the act of setting it down on that land. And since they're apparently selling anything possible out of it, they want that additional income. Hence laws passed making it illegal for someone to walk by and take it.

Here in Australia any such "law" would come under local council regulations. And AFAIK, the issue is not that it becomes the councils property (I have yet to see anything that says it does), the law simply exists in order to protect the resident from people rummaging through your regular garbage bins. e.g. going through your recycling bin to steal your identity or whatever, or celebrities garbage etc. So if the resident doesn't press charges, end of story.
And once again, I have yet to hear of anyone in this country ever being convicted for simply taking curbside rubbish. It is in fact a widely practised and socially accepted thing to do.
If it's up to the resident as to press charges or not, why was the man arrested?  :-//

I just don't quite understand where the discrepancy has originated (I can understand making it illegal due to things such as Identity Theft), but the comments made by Beveridge gave me the impression that it wasn't due to injury or identity theft (which do make sense to me), but rather "theft of public property" (how I interpreted the comments). Given the ability for local police officers to arrest without involving the resident, I presume the local statutes have been updated to reflect the new position.  :-\

 

Offline SeanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15379
  • Country: za
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #84 on: April 05, 2013, 03:48:37 pm »
Here if it is on the street you better be fast, or it will vanish ( I once put out a pile of cardboard boxes and left for 10 minutes, gone on return) like smoke. even if it is nailed down it will go, the building next door has had half of the fecade trim stolen this year, as it is copper clad, even with cctv recording it ( medium build, medium height, short dark curly hair and no other distinguishing features). I go shopping at the local dumpsite, you can get quite a nice bit there, providing you are prepared to do the appropriate greasing of palms.
 

Online digsys

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2182
  • Country: au
    • DIGSYS
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #85 on: April 06, 2013, 12:40:42 am »
One "unwritten?" law is firewood removal. You legally chop down a (dangerous) tree then stack it all along the footpath nature strip
or edge of your property. This has always been considered to mean ... take it, it's FREE. It's usually gone quite quickly.
I've NEVER heard of anyone / any council kicking up a stink about that. So what's the difference if it's junk?
Hello <tap> <tap> .. is this thing on?
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31246
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #86 on: April 06, 2013, 02:13:58 am »
I've NEVER heard of anyone / any council kicking up a stink about that. So what's the difference if it's junk?

They don't, it's quite rare to hear that.
What we have in that particular case cited is likely some cop with nothing better to do, citing some "law" that's probably never been tested in court in this aspect, and probably one local council that's had a whinge about it.
Once again, charged != convicted. There are many ifs and buts to this.
What if the original owner of the goods didn't know his goods "became the councils property" and didn't agree to that?
What if the owner intended for the good to become public domain?
Is the council really the legal owner of the goods?
Has the council effectively stolen from and profited from the owners?
That council land is also public land, how does that influence thing?
Many councils have programs that actively encourage recycling and minimisation of rubbish that goes the landfill, so was the guy charged simply doing his bit in good faith to live up to that?
And there are probably half a dozen other aspects to it.
Until a law (esp local council ones) has been tested in court, and precedents set, especially in cases like this that have many aspects to it, they don't mean much.
But newspapers, and cops, and people like to go around citing various things that may or not actually apply.
 

Offline cwalex

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 302
  • Country: au
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #87 on: April 06, 2013, 02:39:03 am »
I've NEVER heard of anyone / any council kicking up a stink about that. So what's the difference if it's junk?

They don't, it's quite rare to hear that.
What we have in that particular case cited is likely some cop with nothing better to do, citing some "law" that's probably never been tested in court in this aspect, and probably one local council that's had a whinge about it.
Once again, charged != convicted. There are many ifs and buts to this.
What if the original owner of the goods didn't know his goods "became the councils property" and didn't agree to that?
What if the owner intended for the good to become public domain?
Is the council really the legal owner of the goods?
Has the council effectively stolen from and profited from the owners?
That council land is also public land, how does that influence thing?
Many councils have programs that actively encourage recycling and minimisation of rubbish that goes the landfill, so was the guy charged simply doing his bit in good faith to live up to that?
And there are probably half a dozen other aspects to it.
Until a law (esp local council ones) has been tested in court, and precedents set, especially in cases like this that have many aspects to it, they don't mean much.
But newspapers, and cops, and people like to go around citing various things that may or not actually apply.

Knocking on your neighbours door and asking if they mind you taking something is the right thing to do and not making a mess on your neighbours verge is also the right thing to do IMO.
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31246
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #88 on: April 06, 2013, 02:52:30 am »
Knocking on your neighbours door and asking if they mind you taking something is the right thing to do and not making a mess on your neighbours verge is also the right thing to do IMO.

Of course, that's part of the etiquette.
Those who make a mess spoil it for everyone, and lead to attempts at silly laws to stop it all.
 

Offline ftransform

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 729
  • Country: 00
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #89 on: April 06, 2013, 03:55:08 am »


dude, just rent a fucking truck and take the whole dumpster.
I don't understand why a complicated machine should ever be destroyed. It can always inspire someone or be used by someone with less capability then the previous owner.
IMO destroying that shit is like burning books, it inhibits the progress of society. Years of peoples lives went into designing and assembling that gear. And now some fucking
bureaucrat is wasting it because of some retarded ass legislation....  >:(
« Last Edit: April 06, 2013, 04:01:49 am by ftransform »
 

Offline tom66

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3646
  • Country: gb
  • Electron Fiddler, FPGA Hacker, Embedded Systems EE
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #90 on: April 06, 2013, 01:57:35 pm »
If a company wants to dispose of electrical equipment, they should get certification ruling it as "disposal ready", i.e. economically worth scrap value only. If they cannot, they must pay a fee or otherwise give it away or sell it.
 

Offline Hypernova

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 654
  • Country: tw
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #91 on: April 06, 2013, 02:57:12 pm »
There probably should be a law that publicly funded institutions must give alum's first dibs on written off equipments and are banned from destroying them. Would mostly cover uni's but it's a start.
 

Offline megahz

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 72
  • Country: us
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #92 on: April 06, 2013, 04:02:22 pm »
Knocking on your neighbours door and asking if they mind you taking something is the right thing to do and not making a mess on your neighbours verge is also the right thing to do IMO.

Of course, that's part of the etiquette.
Those who make a mess spoil it for everyone, and lead to attempts at silly laws to stop it all.
Exactly
 

Offline peterthenovice

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 172
  • Country: us
  • rip the other half out put in a bread board
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #93 on: April 06, 2013, 04:55:13 pm »
somebody needs to give these guys a book on the history of book burning and its results
a craftsman multimeter, bk precsion scope
 

Offline tom66

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3646
  • Country: gb
  • Electron Fiddler, FPGA Hacker, Embedded Systems EE
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #94 on: April 06, 2013, 05:46:40 pm »
Well... I was walking to the shops today and saw a 26" LCD TV next to the bins... got it home (asked them and they said take it, it's faulty) and found it has a bad cap on the PSU... will turn on after warming up. Not bad for free ;). Luckily the council here isn't nuts about people dumping electronics outside their house... but where my dad lives (London) they will fine you for getting the recycling bins mixed up!
 

Offline peterthenovice

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 172
  • Country: us
  • rip the other half out put in a bread board
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #95 on: April 06, 2013, 08:47:33 pm »
Well... I was walking to the shops today and saw a 26" LCD TV next to the bins... got it home (asked them and they said take it, it's faulty) and found it has a bad cap on the PSU... will turn on after warming up. Not bad for free ;). Luckily the council here isn't nuts about people dumping electronics outside their house... but where my dad lives (London) they will fine you for getting the recycling bins mixed up!

sweet deal! ^-^
a craftsman multimeter, bk precsion scope
 

Offline ivan747

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2020
  • Country: us
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #96 on: April 06, 2013, 09:43:38 pm »
Well... I was walking to the shops today and saw a 26" LCD TV next to the bins...

Put one of those in the trash here and it disappears in 30 minutes, like magic!
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31246
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #97 on: April 06, 2013, 09:53:05 pm »
Luckily the council here isn't nuts about people dumping electronics outside their house...

With my local council, if you dump anything on nature strip more than 24 hour before your scheduled pickup they class it as rubbish dumping which carries large fine.
I hate how they changed the collection system to everyone on the street being the same week, to three individual scheduled pickups a year.
So instead of having only a few days a year when the street would be filled with garbage, we now have someone do it every week.
The benefit of the big cleanup was that everyone would know about it, and would go hunting for the junk. Half of it would be gone before the truck got there, and hence inline with the councils policy of everyone (including them) shoulddo everythign they can to recycle and reduce what goes to the tip  ::)
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 12124
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #98 on: April 06, 2013, 10:23:22 pm »
Quote
If the local councils are making money or getting a kickback from curbside collection items then that would be quite the scandal...
Why? If a council makes more from recycling than it costs to collect, that's a benefit to taxpayers.
Failing to minimise collection costs by making money from profitable recylables would be a scandal.
 
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Online digsys

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2182
  • Country: au
    • DIGSYS
Re: I died a little inside today.
« Reply #99 on: April 06, 2013, 11:42:13 pm »
Quote from: mikeselectricstuff
If a council makes more from recycling than it costs to collect, that's a benefit to taxpayers.
Failing to minimise collection costs by making money from profitable recylables would be a scandal.
A while ago, our council introduced the 4 bins system. GREAT ! I thought. Early on, I just missed a recyclable collection,
but since the depot is just up the road, I said to myself .. do the right thing and drop it off.
I put the stuff in my wagon and drove to the depot .. drove around until I found the truck .. where I saw them dumping
the recyclables in the LAND FILL Pile !!!!! FFS !! On enquiry .. "we can't process that much, besides it costs too much"
When I looked into it a bit more, it got worse !! So now I don't ask .. problem FIXED :-)
Hello <tap> <tap> .. is this thing on?
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf