Author Topic: [solved] [little rant] eBay seller charges +20 USD because he has to pay rent  (Read 5545 times)

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Offline SilverSolder

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I know people that run eBay businesses.   Let's just say that buyers can also get quite "creative" with how they act...

Bottom line, scammers are scammers and they like the anonymity of the on-line world.

But the eBay protections work...


...speaking of which, I get to test it now!  I bought a Bluetooth keyboard described as "used" and it was delivered today.  Turns out it doesn't work on some of the letters, but only if SHIFT is pressed! ...   and this is AFTER I stupidly left positive feedback, complicating things further!

So, any bets on how that will turn out?   I will write the seller tomorrow and tell him the bad news.  Let's see how he plays it...

If the protections work, why would you be concerned? 

I never leave positive feedback because you only have 60 days to do so and that it is a one shot deal.  Once positive is left it can't be changed if the unit craps out.  Often I haven't received an item until 45 days have gone by. 

If it weren't for the credit card protections I would never use Ebay and the like.  Never. 

Why not write them now?  Ebay is a 24 hour deal and the sooner you report it, the better.

My real complaint with eBay is that they don't care about fraud.  I bought 18 gauge zip wire from a Maryland company and though it looked skinny, but didn't give it much thought.  Then I was using the entire 50 ft roll to charge a battery at 2 amps and noticed a significant voltage drop, so I measured it with micrometers.  It read 3 wire sizes below what it was marked, 21 ga.!  On top of that the insulation has the company's name and gauge embossed!!!  It's hard to imagine they would be getting undersized wire with the company name on it and not know. 

It was too late to do anything about that purchase, so I bought some 16 gauge later on.  Without realizing this was the same company!  (seems they are the low price seller of this type of wire on eBay)  So when it came I immediately checked and it was also 3 sizes too small, 19 ga instead of 16.  i filed a dispute with eBay and the guy wants me to mail it back on my dime!  So I used the credit card to get a refund. 

At this point I'm ready to target the guy.  I looked up the MD web site and if I wanted to get enough evidence and claim I'm a MD resident, I could get them to take action against the guy.  Thinking I might do that I bought 14 ga wire which measured as 17 ga and got a refund the same way.  Then  12 ga wire which was 15 ga with the same result.  The problem was I willing to put some time into it, but not willing to let the guy have my money so I could claim being defrauded. 

Oh well.  I now have enough free wire to trip over and I know where to get more if I need it.  I just have to calibrate the gauge appropriately.

I'm usually pretty careful about testing before leaving feedback.   I know a lot of eBay sellers are small businesses and/or one man bands, I don't mind giving them feedback since it helps them rise in the ranks. 

In this case, I only checked the lower case letters, looking for non-functioning keys...  unfortunately, it has a problem when SHIFT is pressed, LOL!   Some keys don't work in SHIFT mode...   what a weird fault. 
 

Offline SilverSolder

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The conclusion to my faulty keyboard:

1) I messaged the seller "Working with the keyboard, I found it has a problem with some keys not working for CAPITAL letters only...  weird, never seen that before. I don't think there is anything wrong with my device, because I have the exact same keyboard already and it works fine.  How do you want to handle?"

2) Seller responded "I will issue a full refund, please throw it away"

3) Refund was issued 2 minutes after the message.

4) I messaged the seller "Thank you for the quick turnaround and for how you handled this."


Simple and pleasant e-commerce on eBay!
 

Offline MrMobodies

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I did, but there are hidden rules. For instance, where is it written they can DELETE a negative feedback because a seller has some privilege? Where?

I ordered a "BRAND NEW" Genuine Thinkpad keyboard with manufacturer's warranty a couple of years ago Couldn't find any "used" ones so I ordered one of them and when it turned up with marks all over it and the letters were just poor quality reprints and a mixture of other keys from different keyboards judging by the texture and varying colours and the warranty was fake it was just one they put over the original sticker. Not happy with the appearance and some foreign keys I sent it back and left bad feedback for being dishonest and wasting my time.

The feedback got removed, I was told the reason is, the seller complied with all Ebay policies and arranged and paid for returns and a refund unless they refused to do so and Ebay has to step in to resolve the matter then the feedback stays.

But then there is that defamation form thing that some sellers use to force ebay remove feedback when they feel like it
 

Online DiTBho

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I did, but there are hidden rules. For instance, where is it written they can DELETE a negative feedback because a seller has some privilege? Where?

I ordered a "BRAND NEW" Genuine Thinkpad keyboard with manufacturer's warranty a couple of years ago Couldn't find any "used" ones so I ordered one of them and when it turned up with marks all over it and the letters were just poor quality reprints and a mixture of other keys from different keyboards judging by the texture and varying colours and the warranty was fake it was just one they put over the original sticker. Not happy with the appearance and some foreign keys I sent it back and left bad feedback for being dishonest and wasting my time.

The feedback got removed, I was told the reason is, the seller complied with all Ebay policies and arranged and paid for returns and a refund unless they refused to do so and Ebay has to step in to resolve the matter then the feedback stays.

But then there is that defamation form thing that some sellers use to force ebay remove feedback when they feel like it

Precisely! To say it in other words, they protect their business not their sellers not their customers.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2021, 12:43:50 am by DiTBho »
 

Online DiTBho

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Return policy details
Seller does not offer returns.

Quote
Send the item back

When your return request is accepted, you’ll receive a return shipping label from either the seller or eBay, or you’ll be asked to purchase one directly from a carrier. Who covers the shipping costs depends on why you're returning it. Find more information about return shipping.

You’ll also receive a date by which you should ship the item back. You can find this date in the details of your return request which will be sent to your Messages with the subject "Send the item back". If you don't ship the return by that date, we may close the request and you will not receive a refund.

When you send your item back make sure a tracking number is added to your return request to avoid delays or issues in the refund process. If you use an eBay return label, tracking details are automatically uploaded. If you're using a non-eBay label, the seller may have added the number for you. If not, you should manually add tracking details to the return.

Keep in mind that the condition of the item you send back to the seller is important, so repack it carefully. If you return the item used, damaged, missing parts, or damaged during return shipping because it wasn't packaged correctly, sellers may deduct from your refund to cover the loss in the item's value. For more information, see our Condition of returned items policy.

Quote
Types of statements that are prohibited by law (Europe + UK)
Any statement which could have the effect of causing the average person to believe that they have less or no consumer rights to pursue a justified claim against a trader is void and may amount to a criminal offence under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. Below, you will find a list of the typical restrictive statements which may not be used:

No refunds.
No sale goods exchanged or money refunded.
Sold as seen and inspected.
No refunds or exchanges without a receipt.
Time limits for reporting defects e.g. defects not notified within 14 days of receipt cannot be accepted.
If the delivery note is signed then no claims for damages/faulty goods can be made thereafter.
We are not liable for any consequential losses, even if we were made aware of your circumstances.
Notices of this type are not acceptable and cannot be made compliant by including the statement 'your statutory rights are not affected'. Most consumers are not fully aware of their consumer rights therefore this disclaimer is ineffective.

Further information on your rights where you encounter restrictive statements.

Quote
What if you change your mind?

Consumer Contracts Regulations
The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Payments) Regulations 2013 apply to sales made by a seller acting in the course of business to a consumer which have been concluded at a distance. In other words, where there is no face to face contact between the seller and the consumer. This would cover sales over the internet.

The Consumer Contracts Regulations apply only to certain purchased items.

Under the Consumer Contracts Regulations a business seller has to refund the price of an item (and original delivery charges) if the consumer changes their mind within 14 calendar days of when they receive the returned item or proof that the return has been posted.

Consumers have a minimum of 14 calendar days from the day after the item is received to let sellers know they’d like to return the item for a refund. Sellers can set a longer returns timeframe if they choose. Consumers then have an additional 14 calendar days from when they let sellers know they want to return the item, to actually return it, or provide proof of the return. Legally, sellers will have to refund the original delivery charges as well, to the value of the cheapest postage option. Sellers can specify a returns timeframe and who pays for return postage when they create their returns policy.

Sellers must inform their customers of their right to withdraw from the contract within the 14 day cooling-off period. If sellers do not provide this information, consumers have up to 12 months to return an item for a refund.

You can read more about online and distance selling for businesses on the UK Government website.
 

Online DiTBho

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hi there =)
wow, what an very interesting object you listed. It's rather hard to find in Europe.
I don't understand if you are a private seller or a company; in order to avoid misunderstandings, may I ask you to clarify? I am considering the customs fees, which may vary of +10% in this case, I am tempted to click on "buy it now", but first I have to estimate the full money it will cost.

Let me know
Thanks

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We are a small business.

 :palm:

Why the palm-face? What's wrong?

Well, again ... so this man is a small one-man business but on eBay this dude isn't respecting the simplest rule ever: if you are a small business, you should have to write your company's name and your company's phone number and/or you should have to declare that YOU are not a private!

It should be clear and idiot-proof written!

When Americans will understand they should set to a fairly rigid compliance? Especially on customs forms?! Especially when they don't declare anything except an unique voice "the customer paid X" (what is the value of the item? what is the cost of shipping and handling? is the seller a private? ... no information, just "the customer paid X money") and the agent at the customs, since he/she have to process several parcels per day then he/she is tempted to apply the highest fees?

It seems to them that it doesn't matter that I, the buyer, waste time (to explain things on the phone/via emails) and money this way !!!

Did the latest four US sellers I bought from understand it? It doesn't look so! eBay UK checks for this fairly rigid compliance and enforces sellers to respect it for overseas business, whereas with eBay com that's the 5th times I know this dude is not a private only because I wrote him a PM to ask him directly.

-> I think at this point it is best to always ask everything even twice before buying

eBay com looks rather different. When you read "covered by protection program" it can get cancelled if the seller writes "no return accepted" which is against European law but it's somehow OK for them, and when you don't read "I am a company" in an auction it may someone who is not even a private, and again it's somehow OK for them.

Overseas business done this way is a bit problematic  :-//
 

Offline wraper

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When Americans will understand they should set to a fairly rigid compliance? Especially on customs forms?! Especially when they don't declare anything except an unique voice "the customer paid X" (what is the value of the item? what is the cost of shipping and handling? is the seller a private? ... no information, just "the customer paid X money") and the agent at the customs, since he/she have to process several parcels per day then he/she is tempted to apply the highest fees?
Buying from private or business results in exactly the same taxes. I do not excuse any other shenanigans in customs declaration.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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[...]
It seems to them that it doesn't matter that I, the buyer, waste time (to explain things on the phone/via emails) and money this way !!!
[...]


Maybe we should avoid electing governments that make life so hard?

Things don't need to be this complicated...
 
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Online DiTBho

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Buying from private or business results in exactly the same taxes.

No they are not even close!

Buying from private or business results in not the same in UK and in Europe. First of all, there is a different value from which you have to pay fees, second, and most importantly, there are also different responsibilities therefore different cost, not mentioning that if you declare "private" and you are a "company" there is also a fine to pay like the fine I had to pay for the mistake done by the seller when I imported a second-hand laptop from the us.

Let me say, that story was so damn annoying, I wasted 5 weeks of my times in total, two days at the phone and ~ 100 euro for the fine I paid and for what? I had to return the laptop in the US because it was also the wrong laptop!

I suggest you to read the customs documentation to avoid to commit these mistakes, as well as I suggest sellers to correctly prepare the customs documentation and consider it as a form of respect for the customer!
 

Offline wraper

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Buying from private or business results in not the same in UK and in Europe.
Tax is the same, any tax threshold is the same. VAT free threshold is different only if it's declared as a gift.
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First of all, there is a different value from which you have to pay fees
Goods value is the same regardless of who ships it. In what miraculous vary value suddenly changes depending on who ships it, except when it's falsely declared?
 

Online DiTBho

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I do not excuse any other shenanigans in customs declaration.

In the US as well as in Europe this can be considered a crime if the agent thinks you are trying to "evade the customs" since "private" and "customs" are subjected to two different customs tables and restrictions, and if they catch you and you find someone who is not understanding at all your case, it could end up much worse than the small fine I paid, and you will have to hire a lawyer.

It's not the perfect solution, however, considering the above, I do find the "eBay Global Shipping Program" a good solution with the customs because there is not the seller but rather the mail depot company " Pitney Bowes" to prepare the customs documentation for you.

Guys at Pitney Bowes are expert, so they prepare the right documentation with the right terms and details, and they assume the legal protection in case the seller did a malicious mistake.


Difference with them:
  • you cannot have combined shipping. You order two items? You pay two postage!
  • as you know in many countries customs controls are something like "one package is checked every ten" if it's a private deal, so without Pitney Bowes it could be better because you could pay nothing thanks to the good luck, while when you import via Pitney Bowes you always pay customs.

I do prefer to always pay, but to always have the right customs documentation  :D
 

Online DiTBho

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Tax is the same, any tax threshold is the same. VAT free threshold is different only if it's declared as a

NO! Jesus, NO! Read the documentation!
 

Offline wraper

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Tax is the same, any tax threshold is the same. VAT free threshold is different only if it's declared as a

NO! Jesus, NO! Read the documentation!
I did read the documentation. Please point to the documentation which says so if you are so sure.
Quote
It's not the perfect solution, however, considering the above, I do find the "eBay Global Shipping Program" a good solution with the customs because there is not the seller but rather the mail depot company " Pitney Bowes" to prepare the customs documentation for you.
Seller doesn't deal with anything when using GSP. Just ships it to their location and they do everything needed to deliver it, including repackaging.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2021, 05:19:24 pm by wraper »
 

Online DiTBho

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Goods value is the same regardless of who ships it. In what miraculous vary value suddenly changes depending on who ships it, except when it's falsely declared?

simple algorithm:  if(Business)  { apply table_A } else { apply table_B }
apply table_A != apply table_B
 

Offline wraper

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Goods value is the same regardless of who ships it. In what miraculous vary value suddenly changes depending on who ships it, except when it's falsely declared?

simple algorithm:  if(Business)  { apply table_A } else { apply table_B }
apply table_A != apply table_B
Please show that table instead of writing algorithms with no information.
 

Online DiTBho

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Google is your friend.
I am out.
 

Offline wraper

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Google is your friend.
Google is my friend and it does not find anything like that.
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I am out.
Nice emotional statement to get out when you have no facts to support your claim, and do not want to admit it.
 

Offline coppercone2

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[little rant] eBay buyer denies +20 USD to help me pay my rent
 

Offline Stray Electron

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When Americans will understand they should set to a fairly rigid compliance? Especially on customs forms?! Especially when they don't declare anything except an unique voice "the customer paid X" (what is the value of the item? what is the cost of shipping and handling? is the seller a private? ... no information, just "the customer paid X money") and the agent at the customs, since he/she have to process several parcels per day then he/she is tempted to apply the highest fees?

It seems to them that it doesn't matter that I, the buyer, waste time (to explain things on the phone/via emails) and money this way !!!

Did the latest four US sellers I bought from understand it? It doesn't look so! eBay UK checks for this fairly rigid compliance and enforces sellers to respect it for overseas business, whereas with eBay com that's the 5th times I know this dude is not a private only because I wrote him a PM to ask him directly.

-> I think at this point it is best to always ask everything even twice before buying

eBay com looks rather different. When you read "covered by protection program" it can get cancelled if the seller writes "no return accepted" which is against European law but it's somehow OK for them, and when you don't read "I am a company" in an auction it may someone who is not even a private, and again it's somehow OK for them.

Overseas business done this way is a bit problematic  :-//

   WTH?  Why are you trying to blame this on the Americans???  In your own words, it's your country that applies a different customs tax rate. 

   On E-bay in the US, the seller only puts the name and address of the buyer, the value of the item and a two or three word description of the item(s), and his name and the date on the customs form and then checks a box to say if the item is a gift, a sample or merchandise, etc and NOTHING else. There is nothing about whether the seller OR the buyer is a private person or a business.

   See the bottom form (CN22) here https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2009/pb22269/html/updt1_008.htm  This is directly from the U.S. Government's Postal Service website.

     In fact, for about the last 15 years when you ship through Ebay, Ebay even prints all of the details for the seller and the seller can NOT change the value or any of the other information. And to be very blunt about it; NO! the seller can't change the form to say that that the item is a gift!

    Yes, I've shipped several thousand times overseas myself.

   I can't say how your country operates with regard to customs but your posts sound absolutely delusional.

   If you're unhappy about how the customs operates in your country or about how much they charge; then you need to take that up with your own government and stop trying to blame E-bay, or it's sellers or "the Americans"!  The Americans did take action when the British tried to impose the Stamp Act in this country.  Some of my own ancestors lived in North Carolina at the time and there were many people that couldn't even get legally married or to buy or sell their own land or baptize their children due to the rapacious taxes charged by Royal Governor Tryon.  The tax for even a simple document amounted to over a year's income and the citizen had to make an 8o plus mile trip each way to the then state capital to pay the tax in person and in cash, something that few people on the frontier had.
 


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