I finally decided on a degree program

[jhalar]

A compulsory Arts and Humanities Elective? 
That's always been a pet peeve of mine. You sign up for a specific specialist course and are forced have to do other stuff. Isn't that what high school is for?

The one arts subject I had to take for my engineering degree at uni (1989) had a 50% pass rate just for turning up to class.
Couldn't believe it at the time, thought there was a catch. Marks from the exam were a bonus.

[etstudent]

Bare in mind that qualifications, in most of the general industry, are only useful for getting your first job. After that, it's what you know and who you know.

Dave.
[/quote]

That's a good thing no? I'm just looking to get an entry level job and prove myself and run with it. By the way this is the program I "might" transfer my credits into: http://www.grantham.edu/online-degree/electronics-engineering-technology/#curriculum Might is in quotations because its a mighty big "might". I don't think I want to go this far, its just too much. I would like to but its just too much.

[Stiege]

That's a good thing no?

Depends on your qualifications and first job!

[etstudent]

I just received my books for the big math portion of the degree program. The first book is a very big general "math for trades" book. I looked through it, and I think I can get through it, I can learn it. The way this school breaks things down makes it easier to learn, to digest. I like this school to be honest, they are different, they do things a bit differently. It fits my style, and personality perfectly to be honest. If i have an questions, I will shoot them out here.

[merlinb]

In Australia, a 3 year engineering course is called a Diploma, Associate Diploma, or Advanced Diploma. We don't use the term "degree" to refer to anything other than a 4 year engineering program. And regardless of the name, that's how it's accepted world wide, an engineering degree is 4 years full time.
There are 3 years "degrees" here, but they are for courses like arts, and I think a few general science ones have it too.

The Sydney Accord recognises 3 years programs at "engineering technologists"
http://www.washingtonaccord.org/sydney/

So yes, unless you have done a 4 year program, the term "degree" not not recognised in the industry.

Yikes, I got worried there for a second- had to look up how it works for the UK. Here virtually all degrees (BEng, BSc, BA...) are three years (my engineering degree is only three years, with honours, IET accredited). Four years is a masters. Fortunately, it appears that we're allowed to do this because we start school earlier than most countries, and we specialise sooner too.

[EEVblog]

Yikes, I got worried there for a second- had to look up how it works for the UK. Here virtually all degrees (BEng, BSc, BA...) are three years (my engineering degree is only three years, with honours, IEEE accredited). Four years is a masters. Fortunately, it appears that we're allowed to do this because we start school earlier than most countries, and we specialise sooner too.

That's unusual, as the UK is a signatory to the Washington Accord, which defines a 4 year degree program AFAIK.

Dave.

[merlinb]

t's unusual, as the UK is a signatory to the Washington Accord, which defines a 4 year degree program AFAIK.

With a three year UK degree (BEng) you can become an Incorporated Engineer, aka Engineering Technologist, aka Engineering Technician. With a four year masters degree you can become a Chartered Engineer. Either way, the qualification is a degree and not diploma. Here a diploma is a level below a degree, but maybe the words are used differently in other countries? (I find America usually likes to do everything in reverse, so maybe there a diploma is better than a degree? And Australia seems to pick and choose between UK and US vernacular...)

[EEVblog]

With a three year UK degree (BEng) you can become an Incorporated Engineer, aka Engineering Technologist, aka Engineering Technician. With a four year masters degree you can become a Chartered Engineer. Either way, the qualification is a degree and not diploma. Here a diploma is a level below a degree, but maybe the words are used differently in other countries? (I find America usually likes to do everything in reverse, so maybe there a diploma is better than a degree? And Australia seems to pick and choose between UK and US vernacular...)

I think it's pretty universal around the world that the word "degree" means the highest graduate level award you can get in graduate engineering. With masters and PhD usually being "post graduate" studies. I've never heard of a diploma being higher than a degree in any country?
That's why it seems very strange with the OP using the word "degree" with what is basically a 2 year technician level course, but that term "associate degree" seems common in the US for community or private colleges, but I thought that only applied to 3 year courses?
I don't think any university would use the term degree to describe a 2 year course? That would be a "certificate" level course here in Oz, the lowest you can get in any field of engineering.
As I mentioned before, in Oz, for engineering, a Certificate is 2 years, Diploma is 3 years (at least one place I know uses the term Associate Degree), and a Degree is 4 years.

Dave.

[Bored@Work]

I think it's pretty universal around the world that the word "degree" means the highest graduate level award you can get in graduate engineering. With masters and PhD usually being "post graduate" studies. I've never heard of a diploma being higher than a degree in any country?

In some European countries the diploma is/was the highest engineering qualification, short of a PhD. For example in France, Austria (not Australia :-) ) or Finland. E.g in Finland they have the wonderful title diplomi-insinööri, and in France the Diplôme d'Ingénieur. In Austria it is the DI - Diplomingenieur.

I wrote "is/was", because with the Bologna process (harmonisation of higher education qualifications in the EU) some of these titles are phased out, replased by the anglo-american Master title. A title traditionally used in Europe for master craftsmen only.

[IanB]

What's happened in the UK is that a standard engineering degree (BSc, BEng) was always three years of study (as it was when I got my BSc), although they had to cram a lot of material into that three years to make it all fit. In my first year we had timetabled lectures, tutorials and labs from 9 to 5 every day of the week, so that all assignments, project write-ups and tutorial study had to be done in evenings and weekends. It was a punishing schedule.

Around the time I was studying, some universities started to offer an MEng degree with four years of study open to the most able students. Originally, this was seen as a "super degree" (not a Masters, just an advanced undergraduate degree).

Then gradually sentiment changed in the engineering world and the MEng started being seen as the regular degree, and the BEng as an inferior degree for weaker students. The professional institutions changed their requirements. Where originally a three year BEng would satisfy the academic requirements for professional registration it was no longer so. Now a four year MEng became the minimum.

In theory, therefore, UK students get six years of study for their MEng degree: two years of foundation study in the sixth form and four years of undergraduate study at university--although there are many complaints (perhaps justified) that the standard of sixth form A-level study has become weaker today. There is less problem solving, fewer open-ended questions and more directed solutions, multiple-choice and continuous assessment.

[Kremmen]

In some European countries the diploma is/was the highest engineering qualification, short of a PhD. For example in France, Austria (not Australia :-) ) or Finland. E.g in Finland they have the wonderful title diplomi-insinööri, and in France the Diplôme d'Ingénieur. In Austria it is the DI - Diplomingenieur.

While it is true that in Finland we carry this title "diploma engineer", you should understand that really, it is a regular degree and not a diploma. It translates directly as  Master of Engineering. Those carrying the title are graduates of a Technical University just like elsewhere. The MEng graduation requires 300 ECTS according to the current European Credit system, and usually takes some 5-6 years to complete.
This title comes from Germany originally. Finland has very long cultural and scientific ties to Germany witnessed e.g. by the fact that almost all of us are followers of Martin Luther, i.e. protestants. In the 19th and early 20th centuries (and today still), Germany was the paragon of technology and engineering so what more natural than to emulate the best.

[Bored@Work]

While it is true that in Finland we carry this title "diploma engineer", you should understand that really, it is a regular degree and not a diploma

That's what I wanted to say. In some countries, having a "diploma" in your title could mean you have the highest, and not the lowest enginering qualification. I remember that in some countries they even call the piece of paper certifying that you have that high qualification "diploma" - meaning these people have a diploma to prove they have a degree ...

It is actually the ECTS point system, a result of the Bologna process, that makes the degrees somewhat comparable in the EU. Not the name or title.

[gregariz]

In theory, therefore, UK students get six years of study for their MEng degree: two years of foundation study in the sixth form and four years of undergraduate study at university--although there are many complaints (perhaps justified) that the standard of sixth form A-level study has become weaker today.

My understanding is that this IS the reason that the BEng/BSc was downgraded to Incorporated status. Most of the world runs a K-12 system of education. The UK A-level pathway is a K-13 system so 1 of those years was said to contribute to the 3 year BSc, essentially making a 4 year degree. That argument was always a little strenuous to make (that a Grammer/Comprehensive could provide year 1 of uni), although in my opinion a 3 year UK BSc is often superior in content to the US 4 year BSEE simply because of the higher technical content that exists because there is no liberal arts requirement. The liberal arts requirements relegate many US programs to second rate simply because it sucks content/technical time. However, studies at Masters and PhD's generally take longer in the US so in general I think US grad programs are on par with grad programs of the rest of the world.

The traditional european 'engineers degree' (Dipl Ing) has long been considered one of the best and is usually regarded as being somewhere between a bachelors and masters degree. This is not to be confused with the US 'engineers degree' (the EE) which is generally done after a Masters and is considered as a practical alternative to a research degree. ie somewhere between a masters and a PhD.

With regards to the US use of the word 'Diploma' my understanding is that its use in the US is that its a common-speech term to identify any piece of paper you get from a school/university/other place of learning. ie people say High School Diploma / College Diploma. It just means high school certificate or university degree. I know of no formal 'diplomas' being offered in anything in the US. The system of of 2 year courses in the US are usually referred to as Associate Degrees. (ie Associates in Science - AS, Associates in Arts - AA). There are no Diploma's of Science/Engineering here. There are also no Graduate Certificates / Graduate Diplomas / postGraduate Certificates / postGraduate Diplomas, except in perhaps a few small cases. Its Masters or nothing. There are many introductory certificates being offered at the Community college level, that people may use as credits towards and Associates Degree.

To the OP: you've been thinking about the courses for a long time. My suggestion was to forget the AS as you already had a basic certificate. Jump straight to the BS and get it out of the way or do it part time while working. I did the stepping stone pathway you seem to be doing and it was a good education but it will mean you will be in school longer because your credits NEVER transfer cleanly. ex. if you spend 1 year doing a certificate and then another 2 years doing a AS you've spent 3 years. You'll need to spend another 2 years at least to jump to a BSEET. Thats 5+ years for a 4 year course generally considered inferior to a 4 year BSEE. By the time you finish the AS you could have been in a place where you need only 1 more year to finish the BSEE.

The other aspect is cost. I hope you don't pay much for the AS. I have a technician who was going to a private university in the US (something like DeVry). It cost a fortune for same piece of paper that he could of gotten at Community college for less than 1/5th the price. He's still paying it off. BTW places like DeVry / Phoenix  etc etc have tragic reputations as Diploma mills. I generally view their courses as significantly inferior to your local State University or Community College. Local Community colleges generally also have good transfer agreements through to the local State University. On top of the the local State Universities also take the same view so admission to graduate programs for people from DeVry or Phoenix can be difficult. States never hire DeVry / Phoenix's to teach anything.