Author Topic: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE  (Read 36229 times)

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Online nuclearcat

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2018, 06:46:02 am »
If you think being white is a privilege in an Asian dominant country, you are wrong in the first place.
Thats exactly my point. But Naomi, seems think different way.

Quote
As for the "laowai" thing, it's not always an insult, and it's almost always not an insult. This is just like "gaijin" in Japanese -- traditionally used as a xenophobic word, but in modern society, just a neutral word.
Foreigners living China for a long time or moved permanently to China usually refer to themselves as "laowai", and it's not offensive at all. It's just a racial joke.
As a Chinese living in America, I also do this kind of racial jokes on myself, such as when I come to a meeting late, I always say I came on colored people's time, or when I f*ed things up, I always say I chinked. I don't consider this insulting at all.
The most popular Chinese channel on YouTube is called "laowhy86", by a South African.
I know laowai is not insult by itself, but context where and how it was used in talks of people around me (in China), who thought i wont know translation - was not pleasant, extremely racist.

 

Online blueskull

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #51 on: April 04, 2018, 06:52:37 am »
I know laowai is not insult by itself, but context where and how it was used in talks of people around me (in China), who thought i wont know translation - was not pleasant, extremely racist.

Sorry hear about that, and yes, xenophobic people in China do exist, in massive quantity.
And yes, there were several news about foreigners getting roughed up in metro for no reason in China.
Generally the lower social status one has, the more xenophobic one is.
Also, the older the age is, the more xenophobic one is.

College educated young Chinese people usually don't do that shit.
As for the old guys (50+), well, some in China even have Chairman Mao's photo hung on their walls. What level of global thinking can you expect?
 

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #52 on: April 04, 2018, 06:53:28 am »
Perhaps a "pool service" might be the solution. For example, if viewer A sends $50 in Bitcoin to Naomi and viewer B sends $100 in Paypal to Dave, what actually happens is that Naomi gets $50 in Paypal and Dave gets $50 in Paypal and $50 in Bitcoin. Actually, it could be done P2P by makers who want to support other makers, with some transparency system in place to prevent cheating.
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Online blueskull

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #53 on: April 04, 2018, 06:56:31 am »
If you think being white is a privilege in an Asian dominant country, you are wrong in the first place.
Thats exactly my point. But Naomi, seems think different way.

Sorry for misunderstanding you on that one.
Just to say, from a few PMs long ago from a forum member (who I won't disclose until he discloses himself), I learned that Naomi has a tendency of applying for political asylum, so I can infer she could be a "banana" looking for Exodus to the West. Who knows.
 

Offline firewalker

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #54 on: April 04, 2018, 07:10:37 am »
I read the interview. There is a part mentioning something:


«Wu told me she didn’t want to discuss her marital status, but before publishing the piece, I followed up with her. I hoped to discuss the Reddit conspiracy theory that claimed someone she’s in a relationship with was behind her work. Wu has spent significant energy proving these conspiracy theories false, and shutting down this harassment has inspired other women who have faced similar treatment online.

“Do you actually have time to hop on Skype to go over the Reddit conspiracy theory?” I wrote. “It would be really helpful [to] address these allegations. I saw that video where you say you're [name redacted’s] wife—and I'd like to discuss the unfairness of assuming a woman receives help, just because her partner works/worked in a similar industry. If you don't want to discuss this at all, I understand and won't push. I think the Reddit conspiracy theory is vicious, but since this profile is long and comprehensive, I'd love to highlight your opinions about prototype bias, gender expectations, and racism as they relate to the rumor. Let me know how that sounds, and what you're comfortable with.”

At the same time Wu responded to me, she started tweeting about VICE. Over the next several weeks, Wu publicly shopped our correspondence to journalists and tagged me, my former colleague, my editor, and VICE in dozens of tweets; her followers sent me many more.

In emails, Wu accused me of blackmailing her and writing a “hit piece.” Without having seen the story, she wrote that if I published the article under my byline, VICE “will throw you to the wolves.”

“If you don’t believe me, I’ll direct my tweets to your name- see if they come help under the VICE brand or make an excuse why they should stay out of it so they can blame you later for acting alone and cut you loose- with a reputation written where it can never be erased as the female journalist who signal-boosts harassment campaigns against women in tech,” she wrote.

Wu asked to see a draft of the story prior to publication, which we declined to do as it is against our editorial policy. She took issue with other standard editorial protocols, such as when a fact-checker reached out to other sources for this piece.

“We just need whatever article you vomit out to determine in just how many ways you violated basic journalistic ethics,” Wu wrote in an email to my editor.»
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 

Online nuclearcat

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #55 on: April 04, 2018, 07:27:16 am »
I know laowai is not insult by itself, but context where and how it was used in talks of people around me (in China), who thought i wont know translation - was not pleasant, extremely racist.

Sorry hear about that, and yes, xenophobic people in China do exist, in massive quantity.
And yes, there were several news about foreigners getting roughed up in metro for no reason in China.
Generally the lower social status one has, the more xenophobic one is.
Also, the older the age is, the more xenophobic one is.

College educated young Chinese people usually don't do that shit.
As for the old guys (50+), well, some in China even have Chairman Mao's photo hung on their walls. What level of global thinking can you expect?
Unfortunately it exist in my country as well(Russia) and probably in many other "monocultural" areas. Exactly as you said, just different photo on wall.

Relatively recent laws in Russia, i believe will uproot racism much faster than everywhere, and i'm already seeing very positive changes.
But how it is relevant to subject, that this law works without bringing privileges to some particular race/minorities, it is generic - just forbid to discriminate any person by gender, race, religion, etc. Doesnt matter, in minority you are or majority, and if someone like Naomi tweet about white men privilege on makers event, without having real proof it is _premeditated racial discrimination_ - will backfire to person who tweeted, that is in fact he/she is racist, by law. And i believe it should be like this.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 07:38:47 am by nuclearcat »
 

Offline digsys

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #56 on: April 04, 2018, 09:09:01 am »
UH OH !! Another disgruntled "social media" (youtube this time) pretty girl, fights back against "censorship / bad press" ! Nasim Najafi Aghdam
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Offline edy

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #57 on: April 04, 2018, 11:57:25 am »
I have only heard of Naomi from a previous EEVBlog thread and watched a video or two... but I even mentioned previously that I felt awkward and uncomfortable (as a heterosexual married male) to look at it for any "electronic" learning content. It was NSFW for sure. While I'm not one to judge and think she can do anything she wants, if we are to be realistic here (not idealistic), you must admit that her fashion choices probably did contribute to her popularity more so than the electronic education aspects of her videos.

Who is to say that someone at VICE had a "bone to pick" with her and either (a) didn't believe she knew much about electronics, and (b) she was just a puppet or "camera candy" with someone else behind the scenes helping her, and (c) knowing that sex sells articles... baited her into this mess and she unfortunately showed she was naive and took it. She should NOT have given any personal details or home tours (forget NDA and all that stuff) to a stranger, period... and shrugged it off. And it would probably be better not to have tried to fight with VICE online. I'm sure she has other rumours and criticisms online as I'm sure she has been getting already. Why react now? And does she really need a Patreon account? How many other places are there where she can ask for money (like PayPal Donate and so on)?

Naomi will find a way to get over this, I doubt she has such a thin skin, and the VICE article if anything may have given her a larger audience. I doubt her existing fan-base cares and she can use other platforms to get money so in the end I wonder if it actually did impact her much except she learned not to deal with interviews the same anymore (many of which have their own agendas and bias before even starting).
« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 12:01:10 pm by edy »
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Offline G7PSK

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #58 on: April 04, 2018, 02:36:53 pm »
Couldn't you get that in a written contract/NDA before agreeing to the interview?
Sure, if your dealing with a respectful journalist it might not be necessary, but VICE is known to expose what they can.

Why the heck would you need a contract for an interview?

Because, "any thing you say may be taken down twisted around and used against you"
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #59 on: April 04, 2018, 02:59:21 pm »
Because, "any thing you say may be taken down twisted around and used against you"
Then don't give an interview. If people want to frame you, they'll find a way to do so anyway.
 

Offline edy

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #60 on: April 04, 2018, 03:30:21 pm »
Because, "any thing you say may be taken down twisted around and used against you"
Then don't give an interview. If people want to frame you, they'll find a way to do so anyway.


True... These journalists are going to have an "angle" and VICE wants an informative but also entertaining piece on science and technology innovation in China. They obviously picked Naomi because she is different due in part to her "features" and large fan-base with millions of YouTube hits. Naomi knows it, she has made a living from it and her reaction to this seems a bit hypocritical.

I'm assuming this is the article in question?:

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/3kjqdb/naomi-wu-sexy-cyborg-profile-shenzhen-maker-scene

She is quoted as saying in the article:

Quote
Wu’s appearance is attention-grabbing. And it’s something she has parlayed into advocacy for better representation of women in technology. “A lot of people do clickbait,” Wu tells me. “I do too. I don’t put it in the title. I put it in the pictures.”

I read the article and I don't see what the fuss is about. I think Naomi should defend herself about this Reddit conspiracy theory about her not being a real maker, or having her husband do everything for her, or that she is all fake, etc... Which people will always accuse someone of when they see someone successful who doesn't fit the image they believe. But rather than take the high-brow approach she got embroiled with VICE in a downward spiral. At the bottom of the article linked above it seems to be just that.

I don't know what got under her skin so badly but it seems she didn't think that it would have any repercussions, otherwise I am confident she wouldn't have "doxxed" as you call it and got kicked off Patreon. Like I said, this is 1 day news and then tomorrow she's back to doing whatever it is she does and getting PayPal Donate or some other medium to fund her activities. And upon reading the VICE article it doesn't sound as bad as initially led to believe by her reaction either.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 03:46:09 pm by edy »
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #61 on: April 04, 2018, 03:58:02 pm »
Because, "any thing you say may be taken down twisted around and used against you"
Then don't give an interview. If people want to frame you, they'll find a way to do so anyway.
TBH, people will try to frame you either if you concede an interview or not but, if you do, be prepared to deal with anything that is put out with strong arguments in your favour. 

I heard that some popular Youtube commentators here in the US do not participate in interviews without signed contracts anymore - one of them disallows any form of editing to prevent things to be taken out of context.
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Offline metrologist

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #62 on: April 04, 2018, 08:06:26 pm »
I'm in a position to actually do those things and try and replicate that if I so desire, but I choose not to.

How about giving your Brymen meter the same field test you gave the Fluke?  :popcorn:
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #63 on: April 05, 2018, 01:34:11 am »
Wu’s appearance is attention-grabbing. And it’s something she has parlayed into advocacy for better representation of women in technology. “A lot of people do clickbait,” Wu tells me. “I do too. I don’t put it in the title. I put it in the pictures.”

With this drawbacks, I guess bikini mode is coming ?

With this trend and market for "this kind of" video segment, I'm guessing its just the matter time, that sort of nude soldering/desoldering paid video blogs are about to surface.

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #64 on: April 05, 2018, 01:47:49 am »
I have only heard of Naomi from a previous EEVBlog thread and watched a video or two... but I even mentioned previously that I felt awkward and uncomfortable (as a heterosexual married male) to look at it for any "electronic" learning content. It was NSFW for sure. While I'm not one to judge and think she can do anything she wants, if we are to be realistic here (not idealistic), you must admit that her fashion choices probably did contribute to her popularity more so than the electronic education aspects of her videos.
Of course it is not realistic to expect expert level electronics knowledge from an artist who merely dabbles in electronics. In fact, artists often do get criticism from engineers - and then the engineers expect the artists to be nice!

Some of the outfits are a bit showing off, but I doubt she wants to be another Joanne Chiang. Showing off is not unusual in art - check out some music videos by rook&nomie (a band Micah Elizabeth Scott did some technical work for). Also interesting to note is at least twice, what would normally be a NSFW outfit was allowed for a company tour because the company apparently realized they would get great advertising out of it.
Quote
And does she really need a Patreon account? How many other places are there where she can ask for money (like PayPal Donate and so on)?
Paypal is the last link between her and (part of) my mining cluster. Basically, I get to experience the fun of mining, show my other friends that I use technology for good, and contribute something to the community other than increased mining difficulty. Oh, and I finally ended the "green competition" between my friend Allie Moore and I because I used solar to power my mining setup.
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Online blueskull

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #65 on: April 05, 2018, 01:50:41 am »
because I used solar to power my mining setup.

I use free energy to mine, unfortunately it only works during the winter.
 
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Offline Ampera

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #66 on: April 05, 2018, 01:52:52 am »
I'd use a drill and some explosives to mine, but that's just me.
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Offline ez24

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #67 on: April 05, 2018, 01:57:00 am »
I had a similar experience as Naomi.  When I was 13 I won a national prize (an encyclopedia) and the local paper wanted to interview me.  I had no sense to say no.  The article made front page news on New Years day with my picture.  I was scared and embarrassed shitless because I was homeless.  :-//  Nothing happened.

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #68 on: April 05, 2018, 02:08:55 am »
I heard that some popular Youtube commentators here in the US do not participate in interviews without signed contracts anymore - one of them disallows any form of editing to prevent things to be taken out of context.

Popular youtube commentators get more views that mainstream media channels, they don't need the interviews.
Reminds me of the whole PewDiePie nazi thing that started the whole adpocolypse. The Wall Street Journal who instigated the whole thing offered to let him write an article for them explaining his side of the story. He just laughed at them, he doesn't need their platform to defend himself, his platform is 10 times bigger. Which of course is why they hate him, they are dying and he's growing bigger than they ever were.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 03:06:44 am by EEVblog »
 

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #69 on: April 05, 2018, 02:31:02 am »
because I used solar to power my mining setup.

I use free energy to mine, unfortunately it only works during the winter.
I did mine earnhoney with my Sandy Bridge E on unusually cold days even though it was not particularly profitable because the "waste" heat wasn't wasteful at those times. Now it won't even make unity (and the cold weather is pretty much all gone from my area until much later in the year), but if heat is desired, it will still easily outdo a heat pump after accounting for mining revenue. There's something nice about heating your room with something that makes your best friend happy, and if I give away all of the mined coins (as I just did, after conversion of course), it still costs exactly the same as using a resistive heater.
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Offline Ampera

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #70 on: April 05, 2018, 02:31:52 am »
That brings into light an interesting conversation about traditional media as a whole.

Regardless of what major traditional media outlet you visit, I will bet you every step of the way they are getting paid to tell you stuff that their benefactors want you to hear. Getting a story's details wrong isn't illegal (and never should be), but bending the truth is a great tool to get people to believe something you want them to.

Dave is completely correct as to PewDiePie's size being why they hate them, but I do not believe that says everything. I believe they hate him because they can't control him. They hate him because they do not have the power to publish bullshit that everybody will believe. The death of one abused power, however, will likely lead to another one. Regardless of how, people with money want to get a lot of people on their side to make even more money.

I think it's alright to trust most media sites to give you SOME facts, but to never trust them to give you an opinion. No man alive is innocent of that. Even still, god knows how many times mainstream televised media was caught pushing bullshit about things like video games, online personalities, and I believe the reason why everybody is so piss scared of the alt-right. After all, if the media is afraid of it, then why shouldn't you?
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Offline amyk

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #71 on: April 05, 2018, 02:36:37 am »
From VICE article:
Quote
She took issue with other standard editorial protocols, such as when a fact-checker reached out to other sources for this piece.
:o That raises a red flag... and I'm not talking about China's! Is she scared they'll find out something she doesn't want others to know? If anything, it's only going to give that "conspiracy theory" more credibility.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #72 on: April 05, 2018, 02:38:51 am »
That brings into light an interesting conversation about traditional media as a whole.

Regardless of what major traditional media outlet you visit, I will bet you every step of the way they are getting paid to tell you stuff that their benefactors want you to hear. Getting a story's details wrong isn't illegal (and never should be), but bending the truth is a great tool to get people to believe something you want them to.

Dave is completely correct as to PewDiePie's size being why they hate them, but I do not believe that says everything. I believe they hate him because they can't control him. They hate him because they do not have the power to publish bullshit that everybody will believe. The death of one abused power, however, will likely lead to another one. Regardless of how, people with money want to get a lot of people on their side to make even more money.

I think it's alright to trust most media sites to give you SOME facts, but to never trust them to give you an opinion. No man alive is innocent of that. Even still, god knows how many times mainstream televised media was caught pushing bullshit about things like video games, online personalities, and I believe the reason why everybody is so piss scared of the alt-right. After all, if the media is afraid of it, then why shouldn't you?
It's probably much simpler than that. Whatever information gets interpreted, is coloured by who interprets. I don't think news outlets always sing the song of whoever pays them for the sake of it. The selection is probably already made in the hiring process and subsequently through company dynamics and culture. Don't underestimate what group dynamics will do to people, especially if they're already so inclined. Add to that the willingness of people to lie to themselves when that is in their own interest and you have much of what we see.
 

Offline Ampera

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #73 on: April 05, 2018, 02:43:23 am »
I am inclined to agree with you. We are in a soup of human philosophy that few if anybody can swim through.

As a person with an opinion, who occasionally enjoys debating other people with it, I tend to not only engage in outrage, but enjoy it. It forms my strongest opinions, but also binds me to some of my strongest friends.

I tend to have a lot of time on my hands for various reasons, and much of that I use to just think about the world as it works, and form opinions on it. I tend to use other people as a validity check on my own thoughts to attempt to improve my view on the world.

Either way, at the end of the day, VICE is still a sack of shit, both parties seem guilty of something here, and life moves on.
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Offline IanB

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Re: Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE
« Reply #74 on: April 05, 2018, 02:54:20 am »
Dave is completely correct as to PewDiePie's size being why they hate them

I've heard of PewDiePie, but that is the limit of my interest. Beyond knowing the name, PewDiePie is irrelevant to me.

And that is maybe the point with Naomi Wu. She might have somehow been personally upset, but the reality is that nobody else particularly cares one way or another about who she is or what she gets up to. People need to get over themselves. Nobody is really that important.

Storm in a teacup comes to mind. Just ignore things, let it pass, and get on with your life. It probably takes a certain amount of life experience to reach that understanding, and that is the burden the young have to bear. They act unwisely and can't shrug off the consequences. As a result they bring suffering upon themselves.
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