I Hate Batteries

[coppercone2]

when you first realize you are totally surrounded by franken batteries reminds me of the scene from platoon where the perimeter is over run. You start opening things up, counting, doing some math.. the numbers really never come out good. Then you keep finding stuff you forgot about.. then it turns out 3 objects leaked, you don't know how to clean it, get a bunch of repair jobs on your mind and you are stuck inside because of COVID19.

I think its just a panic attack

and its vietnam because those people have snakes everywhere! looks like AT&T. Do a little bit of home repair and it looks like the thing is growing in there infesting the floor because everything is corded. People walking around tangled with wires 2 power tools in the hands that shits crazy!

[bingo600]

The solution is ....
Panasonic Eneloop   

A bit pricey, but they just last

/Bingo

Ps: I might have to look into the IKEA LADDA , but they compare LADDA to Eneloop Pro ...
Strage as Eneloop Pro is spec'ed for 500 charge cycles , and LADDA for 1500  , Normal Eneloop are speced for 2000 cycles

[rrinker]

 Nearly every device I can think of in my house that uses replaceable batteries takes either AA or AAA. I have a flashlight that can use 2x C, but it came with adapters in place which each hold 3x AA in parallel. It's an LED flashlight, so they last fine. AA for the laser in my saw, AAA for the TV remote, at home I don;t use a wireless keyboard or mouse, why bother? I rarely use my old Fluke 8060A which takes a 9V, it needs another shot at repair to make it usable again anyway. My newer ones are AA and AAA. I'm trying to think of something that uses a different size and am coming up blank at the moment.

[magic]

You must have the improved version, as the first time I ran into just this problem, it was with an old UNI-T.(when it wasn't that old).
...

Okay, that's a rather unpleasant story. I'm talking specifically about my UT-30 (succeeded by UT-33 these days). I haven't really tested every damn function under mild undervoltage conditions, but I have never had problems with it unless using it for several days after low battery warning.

The warning appears at about 6V, still giving the good old ICL7106 ±3V rails to work with. I think it would be fine. As an aside, the warning is generated by the 7106 itself which means they use not just a clone but a somewhat improved one.

Speaking of batteries, I have a few 8.4V NiMHs for that sort of devices. No drama: low battery warning shows up, I put the battery in a charger for a few hours, problem solved.

[james_s]

Nearly every device I can think of in my house that uses replaceable batteries takes either AA or AAA. I have a flashlight that can use 2x C, but it came with adapters in place which each hold 3x AA in parallel. It's an LED flashlight, so they last fine. AA for the laser in my saw, AAA for the TV remote, at home I don;t use a wireless keyboard or mouse, why bother? I rarely use my old Fluke 8060A which takes a 9V, it needs another shot at repair to make it usable again anyway. My newer ones are AA and AAA. I'm trying to think of something that uses a different size and am coming up blank at the moment.

I have a vintage Sangean shortwave radio that takes 3 D batteries in addition to two AA batteries. I also have virtual walls for my Roombas that each take a pair of D batteries, and my wireless weather station consoles take C batteries. The virtual walls are the only thing I use real D batteries in, everything else is Eneloop AA's in adapters.

I've even got LSD NiMH "9V" batteries in my smoke alarms, whenever the first one starts to chirp I cycle them all through the charger, works out to about once every 9 months. I don't even remember the last time I bought disposable batteries, they're obsolete IMO.

[rdl]

If you need the 9 volt type for something that goes through them fast (not smoke detectors), I've had very good luck with EBL brand lithium-ion type. They have almost the same capacity as alkaline, whereas NiMH is pretty weak. I have some that have been recharged dozens of times now. I'm sure there's other good brands too. I think I paid about $15 for two batteries and a charger. Money well spent considering the cost of 9 volt alkalines at local stores.

[engrguy42]

Oh yeah, I forgot about smoke alarms. Coincidentally a couple weeks ago I had an annoying chirper and used my last 9V so I have to go out and buy another pack. I've got about 5 smoke alarms around my house. And probably see if I can find a charger too. Not sure I've ever seen rechargeable 9V batteries in the supermarket. Or 9V chargers.

And I also need more C cells for my almost dead flashlight. And see if I can find a C/D charger.

Yeah, piece of cake.... 

[engrguy42]

Okay, so after quite a bit of Amazon research, I've found what seems to be a way to deal with my battery annoyances.

There is a universal battery charger (Chinese mfr named "Bonai" ??) for about $20 that apparently natively charges AA, AAA, C, D, & 9V batteries. And it plugs into the wall 

People seem to like it...it has 917 4-5 star ratings. But it doesn't come with any batteries.

So to get a full stock of rechargeable batteries (AA, AAA, C, D, & 9V) will cost me something like $70 for Energizers. So a total, with taxes and shipping for all of this (batteries plus charger), of over $100.

Now I know the fanboys will scream about not buying Enerloops or whatever, but it seems to me that if you're going to have all rechargeables then why pay more for longer lasting batteries? Just throw them in the charger when they die.

And I saw the "adapter" things that Enerloop provides, whereby you can stick a AA into a C-cell-looking case, thereby only needing to have a stock of AA's. Which seems fine, but why bother when you can get a universal charger? I'm assuming AA's don't have the same amp hour rating as C's? Oh, and the enerloop charger doesn't do 9V batteries either does it?

So now the big question:

Does this PITA, annoying battery situation reach the levels of "okay, this is driving me crazy...I need to go out and spend some $$ to fix this right now", or is it one of those nagging annoyances that only raises its head once every few months or so and doesn't really warrant anything more than an occasional rant?

Hmm....and I'll also probably have to find (or order) someplace to store the batteries. And I was just about to order about $100 worth of parts to finish modifying my power supply.

Damn batteries...   

[Black Phoenix]

Oh yeah, I forgot about smoke alarms. Coincidentally a couple weeks ago I had an annoying chirper and used my last 9V so I have to go out and buy another pack. I've got about 5 smoke alarms around my house. And probably see if I can find a charger too. Not sure I've ever seen rechargeable 9V batteries in the supermarket. Or 9V chargers.

And I also need more C cells for my almost dead flashlight. And see if I can find a C/D charger.

Yeah, piece of cake.... 

Can I help you with your quest?

AA/AAA batteries - https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-BK-3MCCA16FA-eneloop-Pre-Charged-Rechargeable/dp/B07QZKBQ3B/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=panasonic%2Beneloop&qid=1586349039&sr=8-3&th=1
Charger for them - https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-K-KJ75MC64ZA-eneloop-Adapters-Individual/dp/B07MXY3363/ref=sr_1_12?dchild=1&keywords=panasonic+eneloop&qid=1586349783&sr=8-12 (extra batteries/charger and adapters for C/D size)
9V batteries - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VCHYW86/ref=twister_B07VGNBYHH?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

[T3sl4co1l]

Now I know the fanboys will scream about not buying Enerloops or whatever, but it seems to me that if you're going to have all rechargeables then why pay more for longer lasting batteries? Just throw them in the charger when they die.

You seem to be implying a degree of irrationality that isn't there...

Correct option depends on usage pattern.

Large capacity, fast self discharge types are fine for heavy use.  Using a DSLR professionally (or very enthusiastically at least)?  It probably gobbles batteries.  Well, if it doesn't use packs or an internal battery, this is a perfect use for them.

Very light loads, meters, remote controls, smoke detectors, etc.: doesn't matter, they would run out in a month.  Don't bother.  Stick with alkaline, or get eneloops.  FYI, Tenergy is another brand of LSD type cells, also just fine.

Universal chargers (i.e., single cell, almost any size) are fine, yes.  NiMH isn't charged by, well, charge, but by temperature; it heats up when it's done.  The charger either senses that directly, or the (very slight) drop in voltage coincident with it.

You don't really have any way to tell if this is what the charger is doing, until you've got it home and can monitor it as it does its job...

What you definitely don't want, is a dumb charger that sits there cooking the cells.  Charge cycles cause wear, and overcharging kills them many times faster.

It's better, IIRC, to let the HSD cells bleed out if you're not using them, and just top them up as needed.  LSD stay charged long enough that they'll probably stay usefully charged until needed.

Tim

[engrguy42]

Thanks T3sl4co1l, but the only "degree of irrationality" I'm implying is for those who have made up their minds that they can't even comprehend how some can find the whole issue of batteries to be an annoying PITA, and instead have decided that what they personally like or have found useful should apply to the entire universe.

But as you so clearly highlight, this is a very complex topic and depends on a lot of things, including technical stuff that requires a ton of research (if you're willing to go down the detailed technical rabbit holes), personal levels of tolerance, usage patterns, equipment capabilities, and on and on.

As with most things in the universe, there is no "right" answer here, although we humans tend to want to believe otherwise. It depends. The only irrationality I'm implying is for those who can't comprehend that.

Personally, I'm tending towards trying the $20 universal charger and getting some rechargeables. It's a coin toss. I like the idea of having a combination charger that also does 9V batteries for those annoying smoke detectors as well as C cells for my flashlight. But maybe the device is crap. Who knows. There's no right answer.   

[engrguy42]

Anyway, so I just ordered the Bonai universal charger and a handful of 9V and AAA rechargeables. Shoot...I forgot to order the C cells for my flashlight 

Though I guess it will be a while before I find out how well this charger performs. Won't get here until April 30.

[paulca]

Long post but not worth a thread.  Sorry to hijack.

My car wouldn't start.  Chug, Chhhhuuuuug, chu...  click, click.

I jumped it with my marine battery off the solar panel.  First question.  Why did the car struggle to start, even with a fresh off the charger, fully charged 100Ah marine battery claiming 900 cranking amps?

My guess.   2 meters of jump leads and crusty oxidized terminals, causing enough voltage drop that over 200Amps they were unable to keep the voltage up.

Second question.  Why did the battery go flat?

Social distancing I have been in the house, working from home for "I don't know anymore Wilson, how long has it been?", "A month", said the ball, eyeing him carefully, 'Don't want your human going nuts after all.', he thought.

4 weeks with only a trip to the shop each week.

60Ah starter battery that's 3 years old, has done regular 1 hour commute and a bunch of "social, domestic, leisure and pleasure" driving.  Must have well over 2000 cycles on it with most around 10% depth of discharge.  One or two longer sit up periods a year with DOD maybe 30-40%.

So it's done it's time, never been properly flattened.  Now stand it up for a week, go to the shop, stand it for a week... repeat.

If the battery can't really start a car below 50% charge level, say, 30Ah divided by a week of 168 hours is around 185mA to drain it 50% in a week.  ~2 Watts.

A modern car won't draw that, so it didn't die in a week, it took 4 weeks. 

Why didn't driving it charge it?
Start versus running charge.  The crank current can spike to 400amps (unmeasured for my particular car), but using 300Amps for 3 seconds we get 900 amp seconds.  Higher on a cold engine than a warm one.
Assuming, the charge current of the running engine is 4 amps.  900 amp seconds divided by 4 amps equals 225 seconds. (COBOL version)
Add in some inefficiencies and call it 5 minutes.

Assuming your battery is low and the charge phase will be "bulk" as soon as the engine is started.  1 start requires 5 minutes of running to charge it.  A 10 minute drive to the shop to try and charge the battery and a 5 minute drive back.  Gives use 15 minutes of charge and 10 minutes of draw.  5 minutes charge is only 300 amp seconds a third of a start.

So over each week the start, stop, start, stop trip to the shop did very little to charge the battery and the slow continious draw of less than 0.5W drained the battery to where it could no longer crank a cold engine.

[engrguy42]

BTW, attached is an image of the universal charger I ordered, and its from a company named Bonai, but it appears there's also an older (?) maybe rebranded version by EBL. I checked youtube for reviews and I only found a couple for either of those, neither of which has any detail.

I'm kinda surprised nobody here has mentioned it and it doesn't appear to be too popular at least in youtube terms. Though as I said, Amazon shows over 900 positive ratings between 4-5 stars.

Seems to me that having the ability to natively charge and discharge AAA, AA, C, D, and 9V batteries is somewhat unique (and very useful, IMO) based on what I've seen.

Anyone know anything about these? Seems certain that spec-wise they're about what you'd expect for many Chinese rebranded, low end devices, and I'm sure the spec monkeys would immediately balk at them (y'know, off by 0.354 femto amps at 305 degrees C    ), but I'm expecting for most users they're probably fairly useful.

[magic]

Does it have proper charge termination or just a dumb timer?

(The latter might still be better than some very old chargers where you were the only timer )

[engrguy42]

Does it have proper charge termination or just a dumb timer?

(The latter might still be better than some very old chargers where you were the only timer )

Well, if I translated correctly... 

Sounds like there are charge status indicator LCD's for each of the 4 batteries, plus an auto shutoff that goes into trickle charge when each is fully charged. And some sort of over-charge protection. As well as overtemperature (60C+), overvoltage, and overcurrent protection.

Of course the devil is in the details...

[rdl]

That charger should be worth a try, but be cautious placing too much trust in reviews on Amazon. Not only are many "fabricated", but there will be some (many) that are not even for the exact item in the listing.

Also keep in mind what I said about NiMH 9-volts. If you have a high drain device you won't be happy with their low capacity.

[james_s]

The charger I have is a LaCrosse BC-900, I bought it probably 10 years ago so I'm not sure if this is still the best option but I've been happy with it.

Eneloop cells are excellent, I also have some Fujitsu and some of the Japan-made Amazon branded ones, I haven't had any trouble with any of them.

There aren't any 9V Eneloop as far as I know but I have a bunch of EBL ones that have been good.

Avoid cheap junk, there are a LOT of low cost random Chinese batteries out there that don't perform as advertised.

[PeteH]

Just imagine having a device where the batteries are non removable... Oh wait a sec

[engrguy42]

Just imagine having a device where the batteries are non removable... Oh wait a sec

 

[Rick Law]

What I would love to see is a standard moving towards lithium ion. 18650 and similar cells.  Maybe have one the size of an AAA but not quite same size, and then 18650 for larger devices. 

Or another thing would be for devices to be designed around the voltage of rechargeable alkaline replacements instead of non rechargeable.  The lower voltage of Ni-MH compared to alkaline usually means the device won't perform or last as long as it will hit the low voltage cut off sooner.  Especially devices that need 4+ in series as the voltage drop adds up.  I try to use rechargeables where I can though.  There are places I found where they just don't work, like Wii remotes.  Would be interesting to see if you could retro fit lithium ion in those. Not sure what the voltage tolerance is though.  A single lithium cell is going to be a little bit more voltage than two alkalines and it might not like that and it might let the magic smoke out.

They do make rechargeable LiIon smaller than 18650 but larger than AAA: the AA size 14500 Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries.

Too bad no one makes a AA size "pass through case" - like the AAA to AA adapter, but instead of having an AAA holder, it just connect through.  With that, for situation where 2xAA NiMH is used in series, one can use a real 14500 LiIon with a "pass through case".  The voltage is a bit higher, but good for things that can take it.  I replaced the 2x D Cell with a single 18650 for my emergency radio.  I love it - it can take the extra volt and the radio is much louder.

The charger I have is a LaCrosse BC-900, I bought it probably 10 years ago so I'm not sure if this is still the best option but I've been happy with it.

Eneloop cells are excellent, I also have some Fujitsu and some of the Japan-made Amazon branded ones, I haven't had any trouble with any of them.

There aren't any 9V Eneloop as far as I know but I have a bunch of EBL ones that have been good.

Avoid cheap junk, there are a LOT of low cost random Chinese batteries out there that don't perform as advertised.

The Chinese made TEnergy Centura (LSD) is not a bad replacement for Eneloop's.  A lot cheaper but performs very well.  They came out just around when Eneloop switched from 1st Gen to 2nd Gen.  Interestingly, the AA sized Centura was the first to hit the market and it had specs almost exactly like Eneloop 1st Gen and performs accordingly.

I was an Eneloop-only user until I was "forced" into Centura.  Eneloop's are AA sized only.  I needed 9V for my DMM, so I ventured into Centura-land.  I like it so much I started using their AA's and AAA's as well.  I saved my Eneloop as critical or emergency only.  Centura AA, AAA, 9V are my "regular" battery.  Good thing about Centura's 9V is 7-cells instead of the typical 6-cells, so it has a nominal voltage of 8.4v whereas 6 cell "9v battery" ones (7.2v) are no where near 9v.

Except for the 9V Centura, I too use a LaCross (model BC-700) NiMH recharger for my NiMH.   I use Opus (model BC-3400) which does LiIon and NiMH.  Interesting: apart from the size difference (for the larger 18650), the LaCross and Opus LCD display, buttons, and software look and work exactly the same with just some very very minor differences.  I think they probably OEM from the same guy - and I think they are good chargers.  I depend on them, both of them.

[james_s]

I had several kinds of Tenergy cells early on and they were all junk, not one of them lived up to the capacity claims, they didn't hold a charge nearly as long in storage and most of the ones I had have since failed. They may well have improved greatly since then but once bitten twice shy.

[Rick Law]

I had several kinds of Tenergy cells early on and they were all junk, not one of them lived up to the capacity claims, they didn't hold a charge nearly as long in storage and most of the ones I had have since failed. They may well have improved greatly since then but once bitten twice shy.

They must have improved.  My Centura cells have been excellent - may be there are fake T-Energy cells out there too???

I should run some random tests to see if quality changed - between when I formed my opinion vs my latest Centura purchases.

[james_s]

Well it was probably 8 years ago when I last bought some, it's entirely possible that they've gotten good, and yes it's also possible that there are fakes floating around.

[Rick Law]

Whenever I purchase the AA/AAA, I regularly tested every cell using the charge-test function on the LaCross BC700 before first use.  Of the >dozens of 4 pack cells (AA/AAA combined), All of them meet their posted capacity with one exception.  One AAA missed by a very small margin (790 instead of 800mAH).  I recall that particular one since that was the first miss for my Centuras.  After using the "refresh" with the LaCross, it came back to above 800mAH, 807mAH if memory serves.  With 9V, I don't have the convenience of a charger like BC700 and have to use DMM logger.  I do it on some but not every new cells.

The first time I purchased my 9V Centura, I tested the L of the LSD and see how well it held charge.  When I first purchased Centura AA/AAA, I also tested the L in the LSD - not every cell but randomly selected a pack from the shipment.  I compared the voltage and capacity (1,3, and 6) months later and even at 6 months, they were near nominal.  I don't have my notes anymore, but my recollection was the AA Centura was holding voltage as well as my (Gen1) AA Eneloops.

The last round of test of new purchase was Feb 2016 (I wrote that on the package wrapper), so it was a while ago.  Things do change.  Even the same brand can-food I got now is not the same as the same darn thing 5 years ago.

I should redo the test after I get my work bench cleaned up.