I Hate Batteries

[engrguy42]

Okay, one more reason I hate batteries...

I've got a real nice 10,000 mAh, 5V, Li-ION battery bank that was relatively cheap ($25?). Two USB ports for devices, and one mini-USB for charging.

I don't use it very often, so I'm thinking maybe I can use it on my bench for whatever if I need a quick 5V. So I find a spare USB cable, snip the end, and pull out the + and - wires, do that solder and heat shrink thing and I'm good to go. Cool.

So I plug the wires into my meter and it reads 2.4 volts. WTF? So I charge it, and it turns out it's almost fully charged.

WTF?

So I'm scratching my head and accidentally press a tiny white button on the side, and BAM !!! my meter reads 5.1 volts.

Hell, how am I supposed to know there's an ON/OFF switch?

The battery should have told me "Hey, idiot, turn me on first!! Geesh..."

That's why I hate batteries. 

[magic]

Pro tip: make free energy by connecting the charging port to the output.

[SiliconWizard]

Hell, how am I supposed to know there's an ON/OFF switch?

The battery should have told me "Hey, idiot, turn me on first!! Geesh..."

That's why I hate batteries.

Uh huh. Maybe RTFM? If there isn't any, maybe buy stuff which comes with a manual? I think anything certified (for real) sold in the US or in Europe (and many other parts of the world) should come with a manual. If it doesn't, it's probably not certified. Using non-certified batteries (especially the larger capacities) is not the wisest thing to do.

Anyway, do as magic said.

[engrguy42]

Hell, how am I supposed to know there's an ON/OFF switch?

The battery should have told me "Hey, idiot, turn me on first!! Geesh..."

That's why I hate batteries.

Uh huh. Maybe RTFM? If there isn't any, maybe buy stuff which comes with a manual? I think anything certified (for real) sold in the US or in Europe (and many other parts of the world) should come with a manual. If it doesn't, it's probably not certified. Using non-certified batteries (especially the larger capacities) is not the wisest thing to do.

Anyway, do as magic said.

Umm...are you familiar with the concept of "just joking around"?

Lighten up dude. 

[ocset]

Hi Engrguy42,
Yes I agree with you. Many here have sorted out their “world” of batteries. The problem is that how is the person new to battery worlding  supposed to know which re-chargeable is quality and which isn’t. Also, how is anybody supposed to know which charger is going to keep overcharging batteries, and wear them out, and which charger is going to charge them up just nice….there’s no way of knowing in many cases
And the biggest point of all……..most people who use batteries do not have electronics knowledge…….due to this…they are falling for cheap rubbish batteries and throwing out mega-tons of rubbish re-chargeable batts  all the time….ditto chargers……mega tons of them, going on the scrap heap all the time……and what if your boss won’t invest in a decent charger and just tells you to use his cheapo batts/charger…your stuck with  your diff probe going wonky all the time….at one place, I used to have to buy 4 AA’s every month just so I could use the diff probe…they wouldn’t buy decent rechargeables/chargers.
Our thermal camera got through 4 AA batteries every day!!!....so I disassembled it and soldered a 9V wall wart to it so I could power it off the mains……must admit though,,,it was hell to get inside it…..and there was a booby trap involving a tiny ribbon cable which nearly gets ripped off when you separate the enclosure halves…luckily I  just saw it at the last minute and stopped disassembling….and worked around it…but I very nearly ruined the thermal cam….it was a  “Dong Guan Xintai instrument company HT-04”….great value for money, but no mains adapter and needs one.

*****************_____________________________***********************_______________________***********************____________________

There should also be a proper  [insert your country here] owned Battery company. One which makes chargers and rechargeable batteries.  This is so that people are not constantly buying poor quality rechargeable batteries and having to throw them away prematurely. Also, many battery chargers on the market overcharge batteries leading to the battery’s early wear out..and again needing premature battery disposal. There is no way for a shopper to know if  many chargers on the market (particularly the cheap ones) will overcharge a battery or not. A charger  should preferably stop charging a battery when its fully charged and just put it on trickle charge thereafter…but many chargers just keep overcharging batteries for too long and ruin them (wear them out prematurely). This all leads to lots of environmental damaging waste and in the end, more expense for the shopper.
Also, if a device is battery operated, it should preferably have a connector so that it can be powered from a mains adapter instead. This is more efficient than batteries. This is  because batteries only use a rather small  percentage of the energy used to charge them….and batteries on trickle charge are using up energy whilst  being maintained on endless trickle charge. Also, when you take into account all the energy involved in battery manufacture, then batteries  really are an inefficient way to power things.

[magic]

And the biggest point of all……..most people who use batteries do not have electronics knowledge…….due to this…they are falling for cheap rubbish batteries and throwing out mega-tons of rubbish re-chargeable batts  all the time….ditto chargers……mega tons of them, going on the scrap heap all the time

My parents might be an example of that
I found a bunch of NiMHs in their electronic waste bin which were quite fine except for highish ESR which prevented their fancy "15 minute" charger from working. I wonder if it was the 8A charging current which may have also caused that ESR in the first place?

But that's still nothing. What I hate most is equipment which runs on series connected packs and doesn't cut off or even signal when they enter cell reversal. This and all the nonsense about memory effect on the Internet and you have people damage those packs by running them down to absolute zero.
 

[ogden]

Also, when you take into account all the energy involved in battery manufacture, then batteries  really are an inefficient way to power things.

Bullshit. Batteries are currently most effective/compact way to store electrical energy.

[NiHaoMike]

Bullshit. Batteries are currently most effective/compact way to store electrical energy.

Fuel cells do even better, albeit at a much higher cost...

[ogden]

Bullshit. Batteries are currently most effective/compact way to store electrical energy.

Fuel cells do even better, albeit at a much higher cost...

There is no such thing as more effective but higher cost. Take some time to process it...

[MrMobodies]

I use rechargeables a lot for all sorts of things. I have a couple of old Conrad 2020 chargers. One since 2006 and other in 2012 and they still work except the first needed a new fan.

I had for about 6 years a collection of 2500mah Energizers but they discharged over a couple of weeks, then I had the Ansmann 2850mah in 2012 which were a little better with holding charge and now I am using Eneloops 1900 and so I don't need to charge them as much.

https://www.conrad.com/p/voltcraft-charge-manager-charge-manager-cm2020-10-slot-professional-universal-battery-charger-nicd-nimh-202020

For my lithium batteries I brought a SkyRC MC3000 which can also charge NiMH batteries but I find they get hot at a similar rate to the CM2020'S or maybe there is something I didn't set right.

I was looking around and found a teardown:

https://lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20Charger%20SkyRC%20MC3000%20UK.html

So far I have had no problems with it charging the 18650 cells and I didn't buy the cheapest.
I have been using them in a QD188-ALT powerbank for many years now to occasionally power up lot current 12v appliances and no problems so far.

[BrianHG]

Everything you need to know, with charts and price comparisons...

[ogden]

So far I have had no problems with it charging the 18650 cells and I didn't buy the cheapest.

Unless you buy fake/noname/*fire cells - you are fine. Especially when buy from trustworthy sellers. Main rule of rechargeable cells - buy 1) proven batteries 2) from reliable sources.

[MrMobodies]

I did look around for some genuine Sanyo cells and I couldn't find the one I wanted.
I needed 8 and I found a seller who has been trading for some time and that was in early 2017.

They are NCR18650DB. After last christmas the powerbank went flat when I using it and noticed the batteries have become unbalanced. Two of them measured 2.8v and rest were over 3v. I labelled them up and cycled them to see how much capacity left and I noticed the 2.8v ones were 200mah shorter than the rest but when I first got them they did charge over 3200mah or so.

Edit:

I think I put them in a different order than before they were charged

The 2.8v ones were in series where the they're labelled 4A/4B now in the picture.

[ocset]

    Also, when you take into account all the energy involved in battery manufacture, then batteries  really are an inefficient way to power things.

Bullshit. Batteries are currently most effective/compact way to store electrical energy.

OK thanks...true, but it wasnt  the point..the point was it would be more efficient (overall, all things told, including battery manufacture, trickle charging etc etc) to power things with a mains acdc adapter where possible.

[duckduck]

Fellow battery hater here. Some folks love "cordless" things. I will go out of my way to find corded things. I hate how you have to worry if they are going to work and about when they are going to run out. The voltage testing. The leaking electrolyte in my damn Garmin. Ugh. I've recently dealt with multiple car batteries dying due to age and failed auto electronics. Also we've got a young child at home and they have many battery-powered toys. We buy great bricks of alkaline AA & AAA cells every other time we go to the store. 

I have to thank Jogri for his post in this thread. I've just ordered some rechargeable AAs and AAAs. I forgot that I've already got a nice Powerex charger and I also noticed that my new R/C-vehicle-battery charger will apparently charge any rechargeable battery chemistry. Yes, the ISDT chargers look nice.

Now, I have been softening. I used to love my pneumatic impact wrench (AKA rattle gun) for removing lug nuts, but a cow-orker sold me on cordless. He went Milwaukee 12v and I went Makita 18v. My god, these are handy as hell. I use my Makita impact driver and Makita LED flashlight every single day. A charge lasts months (I bought the big-mama packs) and recharging is quick and painless. I guess I'm totally OK with the Makita 18v system but I still hate AAs and AAAs with a passion.

I didn't realize that Fluke DMMs had low-battery indicators (yes, if anything had one, it would be a Fluke DMM - thanks eevblog forum!). That makes me feel better about the 9V batteries that have been in there for years (I still check them annually for leaking electrolyte).

[GlennSprigg]

Probably 99% of 'AAA' batteries are used in Remote controls!!
Probably 99% of THOSE batteries are SHIT ones that come with the device!
Probably 99% of people have SWAPPED those from other less used Remotes!!
Probably 99% of people have 'AA' batteries as spares, rechargeable or not.
Probably 99% of peoples Rechargeable 'AA's are flat, & can't find the Charger!
 

[paulca]

Can I add to the hate!?

Bought a new car battery a "sealed led acid" from Halfrauds.

Was a little enthusiastic on the way home and it fell over in the boot.  It dumped battery acid all over my carp fishing chair I keep in the boot.

It dried out with a brown stain as I have nothing to soak it up with and bleach to neutralise would do more harm than good.  Hopefully the material doesn't disintegrate.

[duckduck]

Here's a new one to me. The three AA batteries on Jr's electric guitar toy were dying. When you turned up the volume it would go into digital crazy world. I'm familiar with that behavior. So, the new NiMH batteries showed up (in Seattle metro, so Amazon delivers quickly, sometimes shockingly so). I put them in the guitar toy and... nothing at all. I checked the voltage of the new batteries and they were 1.28 V. Fine for NiMH. I checked the old dying batteries and they were 1.35 V. Now, the rechargeables have flatter positive terminals, and I'm not sure if they are making contact with the slightly (~0.5mm) recessed contacts on the toy.  Batteries! I curse thee!

[T3sl4co1l]

It dried out with a brown stain as I have nothing to soak it up with and bleach to neutralise would do more harm than good.  Hopefully the material doesn't disintegrate.

FYI, sulfuric acid does not dry out.  It becomes more concentrated, hastening decomposition and corrosion of everything it touches.

Soak it down with a garden hose, drain it as well as you can, and let it dry.  Don't just soak it up, you will always have residue.  It has to be washed out.  Acid decomposes bleach to chlorine gas, do not use.

After the acid is washed out, bleach can be used to clean fabrics, but more likely any dyes on them have been decomposed (if there's any fabric left as such), leaving a patchy appearance.  If there is staining due to decomposition products (assorted tarry organic compounds), it may eventually wash out with solvents, detergents or bleach.  Corrosion products (rust) can be removed with CLR like products.  Again, rinse or wash thoroughly.

This goes for the boot as well as the chair.

Tim

[ogden]

Here's a new one to me. The three AA batteries on Jr's electric guitar toy were dying. When you turned up the volume it would go into digital crazy world. I'm familiar with that behavior. So, the new NiMH batteries showed up (in Seattle metro, so Amazon delivers quickly, sometimes shockingly so). I put them in the guitar toy and... nothing at all. I checked the voltage of the new batteries and they were 1.28 V. Fine for NiMH. I checked the old dying batteries and they were 1.35 V. Now, the rechargeables have flatter positive terminals, and I'm not sure if they are making contact with the slightly (~0.5mm) recessed contacts on the toy.  Batteries! I curse thee!

Don't blame batteries when your device is crap. AA battery at 1.35V have more than half of remaining capacity. It can be considered empty at voltage below 0.8V.

[rsjsouza]

I have a love/hate relationship with batteries. A few comments on the related thread here.

[duckduck]

Don't blame batteries when your device is crap. AA battery at 1.35V have more than half of remaining capacity. It can be considered empty at voltage below 0.8V.

I agree wholeheartedly. That toy is not what I would would consider "a well-designed electronic device". Perhaps I should expand the scope of this thread to "antipathy towards failure modes unique to batteries and poorly-designed battery-powered devices".

It dumped battery acid all over my carp fishing chair I keep in the boot.

FYI, sulfuric acid does not dry out.  It becomes more concentrated, hastening decomposition and corrosion of everything it touches.

T3sl4co1l makes good points. Also, you can mix sodium bicarbonate (we call it "baking soda" in the US) into some water and rinse the spill with that. That will help neutralize the acid without staining or creating unhealthy fumes.

[tooki]

Batteries are complex. Using them isn't. (I certainly cannot sympathize with the OP's gripes.)

What is hard is charging them optimally. That's what I've been working on (among other things) for a few weeks. NiMH may not catch fire if mishandled, but actually charging them properly is nontrivial. (Li-Ion/LiPo charging is actually simpler in principle, but they're unforgiving of even small mistakes.) Note that the manufacturers no longer recommend trickle charging, or even just slow charge rates, as they make detecting the ΔV too small to detect (if present at all).

If you have an IKEA nearby (or if they deliver cheaply), the IKEA LADDA AA and AAA NiMH batteries are very good. The made in Japan models come out of the only NiMH factory in Japan, which is where some of the famous Eneloops come from.

FYI, IKEA no longer sells the brown, made in China LADDA. They now only have the white, made in Japan eneloop-pro-in-disguise ones!

Ps: I might have to look into the IKEA LADDA , but they compare LADDA to Eneloop Pro ...
Strage as Eneloop Pro is spec'ed for 500 charge cycles , and LADDA for 1500  , Normal Eneloop are speced for 2000 cycles

1500 cycles was for the brown, made in China LADDA, which IMHO probably weren't Eneloops in disguise. They're discontinued now anyway. The white, made in Japan LADDA are 500 cycles, like Eneloop Pro, with exactly the same mAh ratings.

[bluey]

I hate batteries too.

I feel much better having discovered eneloops and better chargers. I am using the temperature sensing Panasonic one that came in the Eneloop kit (ex USA B&H). But some gadgets really don't like the low voltage of Eneloops, especially the Panasonic AC remote control whose LCD is always dim. Since I can't get Eneloop in a 9V size, I have Toshiba 8.4V NiMH (ex Japan). They seem to work fine and aren't a lot more expensive than disposable alkaline.

Battery powered computer mice are a waste of effort - just use a cord because the mouse always works.

Battery powered drills for home use - the cost of the dead battery packs over the years is way more than the cost of the drill. Just say no and plug it in.

Car batteries are easy. They die after 3-8 years. Replace it when it doesn't behave. Nothing you can do will change that, despite what the clever Ctek charger thinks. Bunnings is good for Exide if you have a few days up your sleeve for special order.

Computer internal clock backup batteries are a pain, because nothing will tell you that it's not working and if it's in a laptop, good luck.

Lithium polymer batteries are stupid because they all swell up and die eventually and there's no way to tell how good the one you are getting will be.

Alkaline batteries are stupid because they all leak and will kill whatever you leave them in.

[Raj]

I don't find it too annoying...I have a pack of amazonbasic nimh AA and AAA.I've also got some rechargeable lr2032 My 9v in multi-meters seems to last forever. And I've been modifying whatever I can, to use 18650 instead of any other battery. Also, I've been slowly replacing my wall clocks with PoE DIY clocks (3 out of 11 left). You just need time to convert everything that you can to a system that's most convenient.

Also, I suggest everyone to make their own gadgets whenever possible...I have a flashlight which is chargeable via usb and has cree 3w led
My TV,AC remote is an old Samsung S4 (no mod needed, it has an IR emitter). I've already mentioned clocks. For game controllers, I don't know much, I'm on pc...but my wireless mouse is used 10 hours a day and I recharge it's AA every 3 months