EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: Falcon69 on September 16, 2014, 10:46:17 pm
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I'm tired of ordering from eBay. I order, mostly because I don't know anywhere else to get some items.
So, I order a new power supply, 100w 12V for outdoor use. It was suppose to be RAINPROOF. They sent me the non-rainproof model. Now, after spending several days arguing with them, they sent me an email asking for me to return the item, and they'll refund my money, except, I am responsible for the charges to mail the item back.
WTF!!!!
It was their mistake, why should I pay for the shipping to send back? That's a bunch of BS. Now, the shipping costs nearly what I had paid for the item.
I could understand if I had ordered the item, and simply just decided I didn't want it. Then I can understand being responsible for the shipping to return the item. but in this case, they sent me the wrong item to begin with. An item I did not order.
So, now the only recourse I have is to leave a negative feedback. Like that does any good. I guess next step would be to contact the credit card company have the charges reversed. But would that be dishonest, since I would still have the item? Doesn't make sense to ship it back, when shipping will nearly be what I paid for it.
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Just recently bought an LVDS cable for a laptop from eBay... I was sent the glass panel, not a cable.
Now I have to ship it back at my own cost. I mean, it's only $4 and it did say in the listing buyer pays return shipping, but I think these issues are a matter of principle. I make sure to pay return shipping on items that were faulty or my error in the first place.
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Just recently bought an LVDS cable for a laptop from eBay... I was sent the glass panel, not a cable.
Now I have to ship it back at my own cost. I mean, it's only $4 and it did say in the listing buyer pays return shipping, but I think these issues are a matter of principle. I make sure to pay return shipping on items that were faulty or my error in the first place.
Fold it neatly and put it into the smallest letter you can find?
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Yes, I sent a photo to prove they sent the wrong item. They still insist on me paying the return shipping, and that it conforms with eBay's policy rules. Their words, not mine.
So, it is eBay's fault as well.
That is a F'd up policy. I get no item, and I'm out the cost of shipping? Makes no sense.
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If you paid using PayPal, initiate a claim there right now. That will get you a better result. I've been in the same situation a couple of times and escalating to a PayPal dispute solved it.
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If you paid using PayPal, initiate a claim there right now. That will get you a better result. I've been in the same situation a couple of times and escalating to a PayPal dispute solved it.
+1
You have limited time so make sure to do it before it's too late.
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That is why I sent in a picture of the item received, as well, I sent them a copy of the picture on their ad to confirm. they clearly don't match and no way serves the same purpose (outdoor vs. indoor)
I'm sure sellers deal alot with false claims, but in my case, it is legitimate.
I am just frustrated with the lack of intelligence at these places when picking orders. No sense of quality control or double checking order.
I am in dispute with another as well. I ordered 6 led flood lights, they sent 3. And the 3 they sent are not as pictured, although, i can modify them to work.
How does someone look at an order, and see the number 3 instead of 6? This particular order came from China. Are they THAT stupid over there? My 5 year old nephew can distinguish between 3 items vs. 6 items.
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If you do send back, use a mail that can show receipt of your item. I sent back with picture of the item dropping into the letter box so to save postage, as I could not take the seller words that they going to pay returned postage. And sellet also agreed to the mode of postage . Ended up the seller disputed that she did not get it, and paypal and ebay sticked to their f...up policy than the messages exchange. I decided not to waste more time to fight ebay or papal. The best thing that happened was I learned to buy direct from China than through the traders on ebay.
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Went to PayPal.
When i goto details on the transaction, it is only giving me the option to open a case via eBay. Which I've done.
I can't find anywhere on PayPal how to open a dispute against the seller.
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Call your credit card company, dispute the payment, and start a dispute with paypal too. You paid for a rainproof power supply, and never received it. Its as simple as that. Doesnt matter if it was the wrong item, non rain-proof power supply, block of lead, bag of dog shit, a pound of silver, all equally useless. Maybe if the seller doesnt have his money, he'd be more inclined to pay return shipping.
You did pay with your credit card and not let paypal have your bank account info, right? :P
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But the mistake was theirs to begin with. If the correct item was sent, there would be no reason to go through any of this.
Why should I be out the shipping charges? That's just throwing money out the window for THEIR mistake.
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Call your credit card company, dispute the payment, and start a dispute with paypal too. You paid for a rainproof power supply, and never received it. Its as simple as that. Doesnt matter if it was the wrong item, non rain-proof power supply, block of lead, bag of dog shit, a pound of silver, all equally useless. Maybe if the seller doesnt have his money, he'd be more inclined to pay return shipping.
You did pay with your credit card and not let paypal have your bank account info, right? :P
I can't see the credit card company or PP for that matter doing anything here. The vendor has asked for the item to be returned. The listing as I understand it required that your return the item at your expense. You refuse to do that. That's where the credit card company will tell you to that they can't take the matter any further.
If I'm wrong I'd certainly like to know.
Depends on consumer protection laws etc... locally. I have zero confidence in paypal (hence my previous comment). However I'd have full confidence that AmEx (who I use for online purchasing, because of stuff like this) would have my back. Ive gotten refunds on an electric shaver what was broken out of the box despite the merchant having it marked as all sales final because it was a store closing sale. The store provided the receipt. I came back with "The receipt is for a working shaver, the boxer didnt contain one" and got my cash back.
Credit card companies have laws, contracts, and internal policies to follow. Not ebay auction listings. If they tell paypal to get stuffed or just eat it themselves, I dont know. I'd be sure to put emphasis on the fact that you never received the item you paid for.
Failing that, I'd be tempted to ship some random items from around the house back instead of the power supply, then demand the seller pays return shipping on them. :p
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When I go to details on the transaction, it is only giving me the option to open a case via eBay. Which I've done.
I have a case that I'm negotiating with the seller at present. If I go into the PayPal transaction there is a link to the "Resolution Centre". I completed the first few steps to see what happened and got to the part about claiming a refund. Not sure why yours doesn't have the same.
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I found it, but, when I click it to dispute, it comes back and says that I already have the case open in eBay regarding it.
Ya, I will call the credit card company tomorrow about it, if I don't hear back from the seller. I'll be damned if I'm going to be out ANY money, and not have the item I paid for. i.e. shipping costs to return.
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When I go to details on the transaction, it is only giving me the option to open a case via eBay. Which I've done.
I have a case that I'm negotiating with the seller at present. If I go into the PayPal transaction there is a link to the "Resolution Centre". I completed the first few steps to see what happened and got to the part about claiming a refund. Not sure why yours doesn't have the same.
Because you are in Australia and the OP is in the US. The dispute systems are different.
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Ya, I will call the credit card company tomorrow about it, if I don't hear back from the seller. I'll be damned if I'm going to be out ANY money, and not have the item I paid for. i.e. shipping costs to return.
If you escalate the case to eBay and complain about having to pay the return shipping, they will often (but not always) pay it.
Do not call the credit card company to initiate a chargeback - always do it in writing.
Be aware that if you do a chargeback against PayPal, they will probably close your account.
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But the mistake was theirs to begin with. If the correct item was sent, there would be no reason to go through any of this.
Why should I be out the shipping charges? That's just throwing money out the window for THEIR mistake.
Odd this should come up, as I've run into this same situation with the last two eBay purchases I've made this past couple of weeks. Both cases were the result of substitutions made by the sellers without any prior notification/agreement (didn't match description & photos).
Fortunately, one has been solved (didn't have to pay return shipping), and it currently looks like this will be the case with the other as well (just shipped it out today).
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But the mistake was theirs to begin with. If the correct item was sent, there would be no reason to go through any of this.
Why should I be out the shipping charges? That's just throwing money out the window for THEIR mistake.
If your package was without tracking its best to claim that it never arrived. |O
I have already some experience with ebay:
- lost couple of shipments
- got 1 fake coin instead of high power flashlight
- one shipment returned back to china because local post office never send me the notification (got tracking number from seller later on that shows the package returned from local post office)
- major cock-up with wire wrap fro UK seller. Countless wasted hours with illiterate ebay/paypal customer support ( I bet they work with 5 cent per support case!)
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Ya, I will call the credit card company tomorrow about it, if I don't hear back from the seller. I'll be damned if I'm going to be out ANY money, and not have the item I paid for. i.e. shipping costs to return.
If you escalate the case to eBay and complain about having to pay the return shipping, they will often (but not always) pay it.
Do not call the credit card company to initiate a chargeback - always do it in writing.
Be aware that if you do a chargeback against PayPal, they will probably close your account.
I've found if I use the magic "eBay money back guarantee" words in my dispute, I've got a refund right away. Dont accept (them) sending the thing again, as it will take longer than the dispute, and maybe nothing will arrive. If it doesnt work, or not the same item or it doesnt arrive in like 6 weeks: press them until you get your money+ sipping back. Do not agree for anything less. It is simple as that.
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Interesting
doing alittle more research on eBay. This is what I found
Per eBay's policy.
When an item doesn't match the listing description
The cost of return shipping is the seller's responsibility. For return of items with a total cost of $750 or more, we require signature confirmation.
The seller pays for any customs charges on the returned item.
In some instances, we may not require that an item be returned to the seller. In these situations, we refund the buyer and may seek reimbursement from the seller, for example if:
The seller chooses not to accept a return request or provide a return shipping label.
So, it looks like I am NOT responsible for the shipping, however, i'm not sure how to go about it. I read that eBay is suppose to make out the shipping label for me and they charge the seller for it, but I can't figure that out yet, and I doubt they pay for delivery confirmation/tracking.
It also looks like that if the seller refuses to give a prepaid shipping label, eBay will require them to give refund, without the items shipped back. Am I reading this wrong?
I am all fair, but If they refuse to send a prepaid shipping label, then I am not returning the item. I refuse to be out any extra money because their mistake.
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Hmm, also found this in the seller's section.
Who pays for return shipping with hassle-free returns?
If your policy indicates that you pay for return shipping, then you will be charged for return shipping. Otherwise, the responsibility for return shipping charge is determined by the reason the buyer chooses when requesting a return. If your buyer indicates they are returning an item because they changed their mind, they are responsible for return shipping. However, if the buyer requests a return because there’s a problem with the item or the item is not as described, then you will be responsible for return shipping
So, it looks like that regardless of what the SELLER's policy is, in this situation, it's null and void.
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I guess you don't Hate eBay afterall ;)
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I hate the process that is now (got the stuff on Friday) , well, in process. It took my 5 minutes to order the stuff, but taking several days to get refunded. It's a slow process and shouldn't be that way.
When you buy something from the store that turns out defective, you return to the store, you get refund right then and there if you provide the receipt and are returning it in a timely manner.
But, with eBay, it's a different story. I needed the item last weekend so I can install my LED's. Now, it looks like, that I won't have it for this weekend either. If I order again, I'll have to come up with additional money (while I wait for refund) and then wait another week to two weeks for delivery. Is I crappy process. I just wish I knew where to purchase this crap locally, if there is a place. I rather spend a few dollars more to get locally, then go through this BS with eBay sellers.
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yeah, when stuff goes wrong on ebay/aliexpress some sellers don't care about fixing their mistakes.
However, i look at it like this... Since i'm paying like 30% of the retail price for stuff, it doesn't matter if every 1 in 10 orders get stuffed up, i'm still way ahead :)
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Hmm, also found this in the seller's section.
Who pays for return shipping with hassle-free returns?
If your policy indicates that you pay for return shipping, then you will be charged for return shipping. Otherwise, the responsibility for return shipping charge is determined by the reason the buyer chooses when requesting a return. If your buyer indicates they are returning an item because they changed their mind, they are responsible for return shipping. However, if the buyer requests a return because there’s a problem with the item or the item is not as described, then you will be responsible for return shipping
So, it looks like that regardless of what the SELLER's policy is, in this situation, it's null and void.
Ebay changed all this recently - I don't know about the US but in Europe it's simply in line with online selling regulations. In fact ebay is in the process of moving to managing the whole returns process for sellers.
Of course this is ebay engaging in self-preservation because sellers such as the one Falcon69 is dealing with are exactly why "ebay"1 has a poor reputation for customer service.
As a seller I'm not at all fond of this - I try to deal with returns fairly and always pay for the return if there has been a problem (thankfully not too many) but the loss of control of the process is irritating. Also there has to be at least some temptation for buyers to simply put "not as described" when they had, in fact, just changed their minds.
1] Quotes, as I know it's the individual sellers. As it happens ebay itself doesn't have that great a reputation for customer service either.
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exactly grumpydoc
I just copied and pasted directly from eBay site a few minutes ago.
They are moving toward hassle-free return policies.
However, in this particular incident with this seller, they simply said they would issue a refund, and gave mailing address, but no option to print a shipping label. I clicked the link, and I was to manually enter the shipping tracking number and all.
however, under eBay's hassle-free return policy, eBay was suppose to provide a link to print the shipping label, and that link was not present, which tells me that the buyer is trying to opt out of eBay's policy and get me to buy the shipping label. According to eBay's policy, if I do buy the shipping label myself, The seller is not responsible for return shipping costs. That I can agree with, as a disgruntled buyer (which I haven't quite gotten to yet) can send a huge package full of bricks that way 1000 pounds, just to screw over the seller who is required to pay for shipping costs.
But in this situation, it sounds like the seller is trying to screw me over on the shipping costs, hoping that I don't know about eBay's return policies, which, in all fairness, I didn't until I did alittle more research.
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Buy from Amazon then and pay somewhere in the middle with a good return policy.
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I gave up being nice to ebay sellers. Now I just open a case immediately and as if by magic, it always gets sorted and if not, ebay just refund!
Job done.
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I gave up being nice to ebay sellers. Now I just open a case immediately and as if by magic, it always gets sorted and if not, ebay just refund!
I have gone much the same way, once they start messing around.
BTW: I believe on eBay UK (and prob Europe) the rules have just changed that the seller pays the P&P on wrong/faulty returns. This brings eBay into line with standard EU customer protections laws.
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I'm tired of ordering from eBay. I order, mostly because I don't know anywhere else to get some items.
So, I order a new power supply, 100w 12V for outdoor use. It was suppose to be RAINPROOF. They sent me the non-rainproof model. Now, after spending several days arguing with them, they sent me an email asking for me to return the item, and they'll refund my money, except, I am responsible for the charges to mail the item back.
Just open a Paypal claim and be done with it.
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I'm tired of ordering from eBay. I order, mostly because I don't know anywhere else to get some items.
Vote with your feet (and your money). Don't order from them. It is that easy.
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You get what you pay for. Lose $50 here or there, that's all part of the game these days.
I bought a high powered torch from China - it's LED wattage rating was fraudulent and it died within a couple of months. Of course when the feedback time on eBay had passed, I had no comeback. I am not complaining - I took the risk and I have no-one to blame but myself for being a cheap-arse trying to exploit workers in a third world country for my own gain, like most of us do but won't admit to.
If we and our politicians were all a lot more nationalistic and loyal, quality electronics manufacturing would be commonplace in our own countries, products would be built with nationalism and pride of workmanship, and the sellers would be decent companies that can be trusted with after sales service.
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a cheap-arse
High cost of lowp rices.
trying to exploit workers in a third world country for my own gain, like most of us do but won't admit to.
Spot on.
If we and our politicians were all a lot more nationalistic and loyal, quality electronics manufacturing would be commonplace in our own countries, products would be built with nationalism and pride of workmanship, and the sellers would be decent companies that can be trusted with after sales service.
Politicians are the least of the problems here. It is the consumers, you, me and our neighbors, who aren't willing to pay for good quality and services, who aren't willing to work hard and compete smart, who aren't willing to be financially prudent, etc..
It is us who drove the race to the bottom.
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More like labor unions and pensions.
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I gave up being nice to ebay sellers. Now I just open a case immediately and as if by magic, it always gets sorted and if not, ebay just refund!
Job done.
+1
Last seller dragged me beyond the complain deadline. Everything was documented in the ebay messaging but it does not help once the deadline passes. It was a seller that I used before and wanted to keep good relationship. I am now buying directly from his source for less money and fast DHL shipping. Lesson learned.
Ebay can be a very sleazy place, compare to let's say Amazon, but vast majority of my transactions go smooth.
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Last seller dragged me beyond the complain deadline.
I have had companies do this with warranty returns. Colorado Memory Systems comes to mind.
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I'm tired of ordering from eBay. I order, mostly because I don't know anywhere else to get some items.
So, I order a new power supply, 100w 12V for outdoor use. It was suppose to be RAINPROOF. They sent me the non-rainproof model. Now, after spending several days arguing with them, they sent me an email asking for me to return the item, and they'll refund my money, except, I am responsible for the charges to mail the item back.
WTF!!!!
It was their mistake, why should I pay for the shipping to send back? That's a bunch of BS. Now, the shipping costs nearly what I had paid for the item.
I could understand if I had ordered the item, and simply just decided I didn't want it. Then I can understand being responsible for the shipping to return the item. but in this case, they sent me the wrong item to begin with. An item I did not order.
So, now the only recourse I have is to leave a negative feedback. Like that does any good. I guess next step would be to contact the credit card company have the charges reversed. But would that be dishonest, since I would still have the item? Doesn't make sense to ship it back, when shipping will nearly be what I paid for it.
If the seller doesn't agree to refund shipping on incorrect items, why should they pay the shipping back?
I agree that doing so is the "right" thing to do, but the terms of sale are laid out by eBay and/or the seller before you buy. Why should the seller pay for something they have said they won't pay for because the buyer didn't read the auction terms?
I'm not saying you're wrong to feel they should cover return shipping - but eBay is (to quote Obi Wan) "a wretched hive of scum and villainy" (mostly talking about buyers - not you, just in general)... so I can totally understand sellers making their terms and sticking by them.
And filing a chargeback would likely be illegal - read the terms you agreed to when you purchased the item (presumably) using PayPal.
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Call your credit card company, dispute the payment, and start a dispute with paypal too. You paid for a rainproof power supply, and never received it. Its as simple as that. Doesnt matter if it was the wrong item, non rain-proof power supply, block of lead, bag of dog shit, a pound of silver, all equally useless. Maybe if the seller doesnt have his money, he'd be more inclined to pay return shipping.
You did pay with your credit card and not let paypal have your bank account info, right? :P
This is horrendously bad advice.
First, per almost all credit card agreements, you are to work with the vendor to resolve the problem first.
Second, claiming you never got something (or thinking that because you didn't get what you paid for that you haven't received something) is fraud, end of story.
Third, once you initiate a dispute, the vendor pays a fee - typically $25 - and it will take them months to get their money. As a vendor, the millisecond someone initiates a dispute, they get everything "by the book" and nothing more at all. Typically we will get the item back and then we cancel the order. I have zero interest in fighting CC companies to get paid nor do I care about the customer's business any more, I just want the item back.
Fourth, all credit card companies have a limit on how often you can dispute charges. If you are disputing too much stuff, you're likely to get cut off by the CC company. The dispute process is not and never was meant to be the first course of action for customers who have an issue with a vendor, it has always been intended as the last resort.
Always remember - when you pay with a credit card, it is the VENDOR who takes all the risk, not the cardholder.
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Ya, I know C666
I'm trying all i can, but it seems the vendors are stalling until the the time limit runs out.
I just left negative feedback for both those vendors.
One quit contacting me completely, the other keeps trying to make me pay for the shipping label to send the item back. Under eBay's policy, if I PAY for the shipping label myself (instead of the seller initiating one through eBay and emailing me it), then the seller does not have to return the shipping costs to me.
So, I left negative feedback, I'm tired of trying to work things out. Now I'll just let eBay deal with it. At this point, I think I just lost my money, wasn't much, under $100 for all items, but still sucks. That's a days full wage for me.
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Oh, and C666
Just FYI, I never disputed the fact I didn't receive an item. Except in the case where I only received 3 of the 6 LED's I ordered. I am disputing the fact that the items I received, were not the ones I ordered.
In eBay's dispute process, I selected, 'The item received does not match seller's description'.
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Ya, I know C666
I'm trying all i can, but it seems the vendors are stalling until the the time limit runs out.
I just left negative feedback for both those vendors.
One quit contacting me completely, the other keeps trying to make me pay for the shipping label to send the item back. Under eBay's policy, if I PAY for the shipping label myself (instead of the seller initiating one through eBay and emailing me it), then the seller does not have to return the shipping costs to me.
So, I left negative feedback, I'm tired of trying to work things out. Now I'll just let eBay deal with it. At this point, I think I just lost my money, wasn't much, under $100 for all items, but still sucks. That's a days full wage for me.
I am sorry to hear it didn't work out. I don't think you are being unreasonable to think a vendor should pay return shipping if they made a mistake on sending the wrong item, I'm just saying that eBay has some policies that most buyers don't realize until it's too late.
The reality these days is that buyers shop pretty much entirely on price, and as bad as people think eBay is as a buyer, it is 100 times worse for the seller... so there isn't that much incentive to jump through hoops when sellers are barely making any money on the sale.
Regarding receipt of the item, sorry if I wasn't clear - I was referring to the guys who said it is easier to claim non-receipt or to call your CC company and claim you didn't get your item (leaving out the fact that you got something - just the wrong thing).
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Oh, and C666
Just FYI, I never disputed the fact I didn't receive an item. Except in the case where I only received 3 of the 6 LED's I ordered. I am disputing the fact that the items I received, were not the ones I ordered.
In eBay's dispute process, I selected, 'The item received does not match seller's description'.
One area where eBay has screwed sellers is that even selecting "I want to contact the seller" sometimes automatically opens up a dispute. I've had buyers "open disputes" when they really just wanted to ask me a question. Those disputes count against me, and if you get enough, you can get booted from eBay. eBay's onerous policies became so bad and so burdensome to comply with that I stopped caring about being "Top Rated".
eBay is a really difficult place to sell, on both sides... although I've had almost all good luck as a buyer (I'm also very patient in dealing with sellers having been one for so long and seeing so much... I can tell when a seller is just being an asshole).
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Sadly though, it happens alot. I can't tell you how many times UPS/Fedex/USPS has just left a package on my front door.
Just recently, my roomate ordered $5k worth of parts from NewEgg. UPS just left the boxes on the front door. Each BIG box said NEWEGG all over them. Now, If we hadn't been home, you think those would have lasted long on the front porch?
Yet, when the seller's all look at the tracking, they say, well, sorry, it was delivered according to our tracking info. And they say you are SOL.
Alot of the seller's nowadays just look at the tracking and delivery confirmation. If it says it was delivered, it was delivered, regardless of the fact that it was just left on the porch, and a chance that a passerby grabbed it.
If I did in fact receive something, personally in my hands and physically, I won't lie and say I DIDN'T receive it. But, regardless of what the tracking says, if it was left on my porch and someone stole it, I'm not going to say that I got it when I didn't.
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... I can tell when a seller is just being an asshole).
Like when they stop communicating with you or when it seems they are obviously trying to skate around policies to get away with not refunding the buyer?
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First, per almost all credit card agreements, you are to work with the vendor to resolve the problem first.
He did, tried to return the item they didn't want the wrong item back bad enough to do anything about it.
Second, claiming you never got something (or thinking that because you didn't get what you paid for that you haven't received something) is fraud, end of story.
Its not claiming, its a fact. You pay for xyz item in stated condition. If you dont have xyz item in stated condition in your possession from the vendor, have you received the item? When do you say that you never received the item that you ordered? When it similar but still completely useless for your purpose? When its a brick in a box and useless for your purpose? When its a empty box, and useless for a purpose? When its an empty box and has been mangled in shipping, and useless for your purpose?
Thinking like this makes ideas like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniScribe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniScribe) seem like a good idea.
when after failing to procure short-term financing, the company executives decided to embark upon a fraudulent course of action to bring in the financing unwittingly from their customers. As each unit sold was tracked via serial numbers and also sat uninspected for some weeks inside warehouses in Singapore awaiting use in production, the decision was made to ship pieces of masonry inside the boxes that would normally contain hard drives. After receiving payment, MiniScribe then planned to issue a recall of all the affected serial numbers and then ship actual hard drive units as replacements, using the money received to meet financial obligations in the short term.
at least they were probably going to pay for return shipping ;)
I just want the item back.
apparently not this vendor
Fourth, all credit card companies have a limit on how often you can dispute charges. If you are disputing too much stuff, you're likely to get cut off by the CC company.
Why I dont mess around with stuff on ebay usually. Personally I'd have purchased a meanwell power supply from Jameco, and had the product I wanted in my hands exactly as described, and they'd have my money in their bank account. Also exactly as described.
Ship the wrong item to a gov't agency placing an order for something, demand they pay return shipping, and see if you end up with your money or your item back ;)
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To date I have not had any problems from e bay sellers on returns. The few times I have either not received or received the wrong or a broken item the seller has either just sent a refund or another product no questions asked even the sellers in China in fact the Chinese one are the best at this, a refund by return of email reporting the problem seem the norm. I even had a bench power supply that did not work on arrival and they sent a refund and told me to bin the item as it turned out it was an easy fix the power transistor was open circuit. :-+
To the most part it is not worth the Chinese sellers asking for the item to be returned as the postage costs back to china is so high especially for heavy or bulky items.
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Sadly though, it happens alot. I can't tell you how many times UPS/Fedex/USPS has just left a package on my front door.
I'll try to dig out the best 'you were out' card I've ever had.
"Parcel left in recycling bin"
WTF thank goodness it wasn't bin day!
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Ya, I know C666
I'm trying all i can, but it seems the vendors are stalling until the the time limit runs out.
I just left negative feedback for both those vendors.
One quit contacting me completely, the other keeps trying to make me pay for the shipping label to send the item back. Under eBay's policy, if I PAY for the shipping label myself (instead of the seller initiating one through eBay and emailing me it), then the seller does not have to return the shipping costs to me.
So, I left negative feedback, I'm tired of trying to work things out. Now I'll just let eBay deal with it. At this point, I think I just lost my money, wasn't much, under $100 for all items, but still sucks. That's a days full wage for me.
You have NOT lost your money, you just need to go through the process! You only just opened the dispute. These things do take time unfortunately.
ebay allows the seller a few days to resolve the issue with you before getting involved. Three days after you opened the dispute, you can escalate the case to ebay. Summarize the issue when you contact them, tell them the item is not as described, and that the seller wants you to pay return shipping, which is not in line with ebay's policy as you understand it. ebay can see all the messages that you have exchanged with the seller using their message system (a good reason to only use it, not e-mail). They will no doubt side with you, then contact the seller, and you will get your money back fairly quickly. Based on what it costs the seller to pay for the return shipping vs the cost of the item, they may either pay it or just absorb the loss.
You were not wrong in leaving negative feedback, but perhaps a bit hasty. I always give the seller ample opportunity to resolve the issue before leaving negative feedback.
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eBay deleted the negative feedback. They said the seller agreed to accept the return. I called them and they said they overlooked the policy about the item was wrong in the first place, but since the feedback was retracted, there's nothing they can do about it now with their current system. So, The seller will not be receiving ANY feedback from me now. I can't leave any now.
So, with no threat of a negative feedback, they won't pay up now. What incentive do they have to do so? Pay, or not pay, It doesn't matter to them, as they have no bad feedback.
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dispute with paypal.
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eBay deleted the negative feedback. They said the seller agreed to accept the return. I called them and they said they overlooked the policy about the item was wrong in the first place, but since the feedback was retracted, there's nothing they can do about it now with their current system. So, The seller will not be receiving ANY feedback from me now. I can't leave any now.
So, with no threat of a negative feedback, they won't pay up now. What incentive do they have to do so? Pay, or not pay, It doesn't matter to them, as they have no bad feedback.
It is not so simple. ebay has your back. If the seller won't pay up, then ebay will give you your refund, an ebay will go after the seller for reimbursement. That is part of eBay's guarantee. Put some faith the system. If the seller does not cooperate, then their seller's rating (which you can't see) will be negatively impacted, and this increases the fees that they pay to ebay. They don't want that.
dispute with paypal.
This is no longer possible since a case is already opened with ebay. Paypal and ebay disputes are mutually exclusive.
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... I can tell when a seller is just being an asshole).
Like when they stop communicating with you or when it seems they are obviously trying to skate around policies to get away with not refunding the buyer?
eBay is very strict with sellers, so I am not sure what "skate around policies" means. Buyers are responsible for return shipping on items, unless the seller states differently in the auction, or agrees to cover return shipping. I get that most people don't read the fine print, but eBay is a difficult place to sell items on and it's imperative that all these things be clear to sellers up-front.
The price buyers pay to be able to return items at will as SNAD is that they pay return shipping. It's unfair when someone like yourself gets caught up in that net for an item that was legitimately different than what you expected, but again - that's the price buyers pay. If one doesn't like the terms, one is free to buy elsewhere.
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He did, tried to return the item they didn't want the wrong item back bad enough to do anything about it.
Incorrect. eBay TOS are to return the item (at buyers expense) for a refund.
Its not claiming, its a fact. You pay for xyz item in stated condition. If you dont have xyz item in stated condition in your possession from the vendor, have you received the item? When do you say that you never received the item that you ordered? When it similar but still completely useless for your purpose? When its a brick in a box and useless for your purpose? When its a empty box, and useless for a purpose? When its an empty box and has been mangled in shipping, and useless for your purpose?
Claiming you didn't receive something when the truth is that you received something but it wasn't what you expected is fraudulent. There are different 'codes' for why you are filing a dispute. Item not as claimed is different than not received.
apparently not this vendor
Sure they do, they've apparently agreed to take it back per eBay TOS.
Why I dont mess around with stuff on ebay usually. Personally I'd have purchased a meanwell power supply from Jameco, and had the product I wanted in my hands exactly as described, and they'd have my money in their bank account. Also exactly as described.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I hate to sound cold to the OP but "you get what you pay for" really is true. There are often threads on this site about people who've been shafted by eBay - usually from Chinese sellers. When I buy LED's buy the kilogram at a flea market in Shenzhen, I don't expect them all to work or even assume any of them work, or that they are fit for any particular purpose. It sucks when things don't work out, but again... you get what you pay for.
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You might want to read this
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/return-process.html#shipping-charges (http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/return-process.html#shipping-charges)
and
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/return-process.html#refunds (http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/return-process.html#refunds)
btw:
With these rules, ebay allows for non-compliancy with the european laws for consumer protection when the seller is a company.
European buyers protection laws clearly state that all costs must always be reimbursed if the item does not have the properties the buyer could reasonably expect.
The buyer, just like the seller, always has the burdon of proof for a shipment.
European laws also state the selling company must state their address. (This way the consumer can make sure if he is protected by european law.)
But ebay doesn't seem to give a damn about enforcing these european laws upon the sellers.
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You might want to read this
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/return-process.html#shipping-charges (http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/return-process.html#shipping-charges)
and
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/return-process.html#refunds (http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/return-process.html#refunds)
btw:
With these rules, ebay allows for non-compliancy with the european laws for consumer protection when the seller is a company.
European buyers protection laws clearly state that all costs must always be reimbursed if the item does not have the properties the buyer could reasonably expect.
The buyer, just like the seller, always has the burdon of proof for a shipment.
European laws also state the selling company must state their address. (This way the consumer can make sure if he is protected by european law.)
But ebay doesn't seem to give a damn about enforcing these european laws upon the sellers.
That is for the "eBay Hassle Free Returns" program, which is something a seller can choose to opt in or out of. On some auction listings, you will see "Hassle Free Return".
The standard eBay return policy is listed here:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/item-not-as-described.html (http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/item-not-as-described.html)
It says "We require buyers to pay the cost of return shipping, unless you and the buyer have come to a different agreement."
The buyer can ask the seller to pay return shipping, but the seller is not obligated to do so. I have heard of eBay skirting that policy and making sellers pay (by taking it from their account) in some cases, but it's rare and even "oops, we shipped the wrong item" are usually not covered.
The
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eBay deleted the negative feedback. They said the seller agreed to accept the return. I called them and they said they overlooked the policy about the item was wrong in the first place, but since the feedback was retracted, there's nothing they can do about it now with their current system. So, The seller will not be receiving ANY feedback from me now. I can't leave any now.
So, with no threat of a negative feedback, they won't pay up now. What incentive do they have to do so? Pay, or not pay, It doesn't matter to them, as they have no bad feedback.
I sympathize with you, but (and I know you don't want to hear this), you were at fault in how you handled this.
eBay deleted the negative because it was unwarranted. You probably said something like "shipped wrong item and wont pay return shipping" or whatever. And the seller called eBay and pointed out the feedback was factually untrue. In those cases, the feedback gets removed. I've had feedback removed for similar reasons.
I think they were just blowing smoke up your ass when they said they mistakenly removed the feedback - the seller support group is a different group than the people you talk to when you call in.
There really isn't any easy way around it... the buyer is responsible for return shipping, even if the item is not as described. I realize that sucks and seems unfair, but that's how eBay works. Lesson learned though (hopefully) to always check into the terms of sale, especially when - if something goes wrong - rectifying the problem will be onerous.
How heavy is the item in question and how much would it cost to ship it back? US Postal Priority would be $5.25 if it will fit in the small flat rate box.
You can still get your money back - you just need to ship it back to the seller (at your expense). It's not really fair to the seller that he should have to pay for return shipping because you weren't aware of the policy.
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The buyer can ask the seller to pay return shipping, but the seller is not obligated to do so. I have heard of eBay skirting that policy and making sellers pay (by taking it from their account) in some cases, but it's rare and even "oops, we shipped the wrong item" are usually not covered.
I agree.
And that's exactly why I think ebay should not not even be allowed to operate as a selling platform in Europe, because they don't enforce companies (who use their platform) to state where they are located.
I seem to have missed that the buyer did not use "hassle free returns".
But ebay should rename that policy to "lets make returns even more complex".
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Their ad clearly states ebay money back guarantee, and under that, it states that policy, because the item was WRONG by the seller's mistake, they are responsible for shipping.
When you goto the ad, click on learn more for the ebay money back guarantee, and view entire policy, it clearly states under
When an item doesn't match the listing description
If a buyer receives an item that doesn't match the listing description, the buyer needs to request a return from My eBay. The seller should address the buyer's concern and offer a solution, such as accepting a return, offering a replacement or refund.
If the buyer doesn't receive a response or solution, or returns the item but doesn't receive a refund or replacement from the seller, the buyer can ask us to step in and help.
If asked to step in and help, we review the item description and any other information about the item that the buyer and seller provide. If we can't determine that the item matches the listing description, if the seller has already offered a return, or the seller's stated return window and policy applies, we may ask the buyer to return the item to the seller.
When an item doesn't match the listing description
If a buyer receives an item that doesn't match the listing description, the buyer needs to request a return from My eBay. The seller should address the buyer's concern and offer a solution, such as accepting a return, offering a replacement or refund.
If the buyer doesn't receive a response or solution, or returns the item but doesn't receive a refund or replacement from the seller, the buyer can ask us to step in and help.
If asked to step in and help, we review the item description and any other information about the item that the buyer and seller provide. If we can't determine that the item matches the listing description, if the seller has already offered a return, or the seller's stated return window and policy applies, we may ask the buyer to return the item to the seller
When an item is returned to the seller
The buyer must return the item in the same condition in which it was received.
The seller is required to accept the return at the same location specified in the listing.
The cost of return shipping is the seller's responsibility. For return of items with a total cost of $750 or more, we require signature confirmation.
The seller pays for any customs charges on the returned item.
Either we generate a return shipping label or the seller can provide a label. We add the cost of an eBay-generated label to the seller's monthly eBay invoice.
When a return shipping label is made available to the buyer and/or the buyer chooses to purchase a separate label, the buyer won't be refunded by eBay for the cost of the label.
After confirming that the item was returned to the seller, we refund the full cost of the item and original shipping via PayPal. We require the seller to reimburse us for the amount. When the buyer arranges shipping or picks up the item, we may not refund the cost of original shipping or pickup.
It also says that a seller MUST provide a shipping label. The policy also states that if I make my own shipping label, then they seller doesn't have to reimburse me for it. And THAT is what the seller's is 'skating' around. Trying to get me to pay for it, so they don't have to. They are dragging this out. Everytime they respond to my response, it seems eBay is shifting their 'STEP IN' policy forward. They said 3 days, this dispute was openened on the 13th (granted, a Sunday), but it is now the end of Thursday, almost 5 days awaynow.
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Let hope alibaba can bring taobao to the USA and Europe. From my 10+ years with ebay, and 1 or 2 years with Taobao, I can say Taobao system is a few generations ahead of ebay. Ebay basically do not change much. Taobao system is all advantageous to buyer, and sellers who keep their ratings high shall be rewarded by future sale. Those who cannot get 100%, get almost no sale. If there is a mistake been made, genuine sellers shall bend over backwards to make it right, and normally buyers are over compensated. It is almost as good if not better than Amazon. Ebay was having the Chinese market all itself and had to retreat completely after just after a few year Taobao appeared. Ebay is being too short sighted in protecting their revenue of ONE bad sale, over ONE good customer. Again and again and again.
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Ebay was having the Chinese market all itself and had to retreat completely after just after a few year Taobao appeared.
You may want to research that timeline a little bit more.
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Their ad clearly states ebay money back guarantee, and under that, it states that policy, because the item was WRONG by the seller's mistake, they are responsible for shipping.
When you goto the ad, click on learn more for the ebay money back guarantee, and view entire policy, it clearly states under
When an item doesn't match the listing description
If a buyer receives an item that doesn't match the listing description, the buyer needs to request a return from My eBay. The seller should address the buyer's concern and offer a solution, such as accepting a return, offering a replacement or refund.
If the buyer doesn't receive a response or solution, or returns the item but doesn't receive a refund or replacement from the seller, the buyer can ask us to step in and help.
If asked to step in and help, we review the item description and any other information about the item that the buyer and seller provide. If we can't determine that the item matches the listing description, if the seller has already offered a return, or the seller's stated return window and policy applies, we may ask the buyer to return the item to the seller.
When an item doesn't match the listing description
If a buyer receives an item that doesn't match the listing description, the buyer needs to request a return from My eBay. The seller should address the buyer's concern and offer a solution, such as accepting a return, offering a replacement or refund.
If the buyer doesn't receive a response or solution, or returns the item but doesn't receive a refund or replacement from the seller, the buyer can ask us to step in and help.
If asked to step in and help, we review the item description and any other information about the item that the buyer and seller provide. If we can't determine that the item matches the listing description, if the seller has already offered a return, or the seller's stated return window and policy applies, we may ask the buyer to return the item to the seller
When an item is returned to the seller
The buyer must return the item in the same condition in which it was received.
The seller is required to accept the return at the same location specified in the listing.
The cost of return shipping is the seller's responsibility. For return of items with a total cost of $750 or more, we require signature confirmation.
The seller pays for any customs charges on the returned item.
Either we generate a return shipping label or the seller can provide a label. We add the cost of an eBay-generated label to the seller's monthly eBay invoice.
When a return shipping label is made available to the buyer and/or the buyer chooses to purchase a separate label, the buyer won't be refunded by eBay for the cost of the label.
After confirming that the item was returned to the seller, we refund the full cost of the item and original shipping via PayPal. We require the seller to reimburse us for the amount. When the buyer arranges shipping or picks up the item, we may not refund the cost of original shipping or pickup.
It also says that a seller MUST provide a shipping label. The policy also states that if I make my own shipping label, then they seller doesn't have to reimburse me for it. And THAT is what the seller's is 'skating' around. Trying to get me to pay for it, so they don't have to. They are dragging this out. Everytime they respond to my response, it seems eBay is shifting their 'STEP IN' policy forward. They said 3 days, this dispute was openened on the 13th (granted, a Sunday), but it is now the end of Thursday, almost 5 days awaynow.
What is the link to the item in question?
The return policy above is part of the "eBay Managed Returns" program, which sellers can opt into or out of. Are you getting that text specifically from the item page for the item you bought or another page? If another page, it may not apply to your specific purchase.
eBay's standard return policy is what I listed... here:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html)
sellers are not obligated to pay buyers return shipping costs unless they agree to.
If you are in fact reading the text directly from the item page, you'll notice it doesn't state that the seller MUST provide a return shipping label. It simply says the return shipping costs are the responsibility of the seller. It also says this comes about if you and the seller are unable to come to a resolution and you ask eBay to step in. You should be able to escalate the dispute after 3 days. It doesn't say you won't be reimbursed for a shipping label if you buy it, it simply says that if one was made available to you but you chose not to use it, that you won't be reimbursed.
What is the weight of the item, and where did you purchase it from? It seems strange that it would cost as much to send it back as you paid for it. You don't need to send it back via express, USPS First Class would work.
If you follow the rules and process as written, you should be able to get your refund. But expecting something outside of the stated policy is unfair to the seller and bound to lead to disappointment.
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I had a China seller (Dec 2013) that also shipped the wrong items, I opened a dispute.
The seller agreed they sent the wrong items, and said they would pay return shipping.
Where I screwed up, was I sent this without escalating to eBay first. So the cost with tracking, the USPS wanted $110 to return the $101 items to China. So I opted to save the seller money by doing the cheapest return to China at $26. It had a customs number, which you can't track (what good is filling out the form).
The items never arrived (says the seller), and I was out all my money.
My mistake was not escalating the case to eBay. I know better now. When I did try to escalate, eBay closed the dispute for not following their rules.
And read the fine print eBay does not cover the return shipping outside of the continental USA. I got this from eBay with a phone call about their closing the dispute.
I now never purchase from China. Only in country sellers.
Also look at your credit card statement, do you ever see a foreign bank transfer fee, which VISA rounds up to the full dollar? I've gotten this from border companies (Washington state and New York State) that transfer money to Canada, so it's not just a China bank fee. I've complained to PayPal and they are totally unaware of this fee. So much for them protecting my card from fraudulent charges. I've never seen any auction that states anything about a transfer fee.
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I'm tired of ordering from eBay. I order, mostly because I don't know anywhere else to get some items.
So, I order a new power supply, 100w 12V for outdoor use. It was suppose to be RAINPROOF. They sent me the non-rainproof model. Now, after spending several days arguing with them, they sent me an email asking for me to return the item, and they'll refund my money, except, I am responsible for the charges to mail the item back.
WTF!!!!
It was their mistake, why should I pay for the shipping to send back? That's a bunch of BS. Now, the shipping costs nearly what I had paid for the item.
I could understand if I had ordered the item, and simply just decided I didn't want it. Then I can understand being responsible for the shipping to return the item. but in this case, they sent me the wrong item to begin with. An item I did not order.
So, now the only recourse I have is to leave a negative feedback. Like that does any good. I guess next step would be to contact the credit card company have the charges reversed. But would that be dishonest, since I would still have the item? Doesn't make sense to ship it back, when shipping will nearly be what I paid for it.
I haven't read the rest of the thread but in case no one has told you this yet: Go read E-bay's rules! They clearly state that the seller of a defective or wrong item is responsible and has to refund the seller's purchase price AND what they paid for shipping AND that includes return shipping! In fact just in the last couple of weeks, E-bay sent out a new seller's agreement to reinforce that rule. If the seller is be difficult, just file a complaint with E-bay/PayPal and let them deal with them.
FWIW, reversing the credit card charges would NOT be dishonest! Cases like this are exactly why the federal credit card laws specifically allow you to dispute charges.
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a cheap-arse
High cost of lowp rices.
trying to exploit workers in a third world country for my own gain, like most of us do but won't admit to.
Spot on.
If we and our politicians were all a lot more nationalistic and loyal, quality electronics manufacturing would be commonplace in our own countries, products would be built with nationalism and pride of workmanship, and the sellers would be decent companies that can be trusted with after sales service.
Politicians are the least of the problems here. It is the consumers, you, me and our neighbors, who aren't willing to pay for good quality and services, who aren't willing to work hard and compete smart, who aren't willing to be financially prudent, etc..
It is us who drove the race to the bottom.
On the other hand, we are creating jobs for the poor and lining the pockets of face savers. But that is not our interest. How many person who made their shirt in a Bangladeshi sweatshop or most of the crap sold on eBay.
I think very high import taxes of all assembled electronics products would be a good idea. Electronics manufacturing and test equipment exempt.
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I think very high import taxes of all assembled electronics products would be a good idea. Electronics manufacturing and test equipment exempt.
If you are an aussie you need to realize that Australia is China's bitch.
Without the sales of raw materials to china (which are available elsewhere in the world) your economy is screwed.
Do you really want to hack off the people who are making your rich?
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eBay Customer Support has refunded you through PayPal and the case is closed. Sep 19, 2014 at 11:51 AM
Refund information:
We've initiated a refund of $19.95 back to the PayPal funding source that you used to purchase the item. Please allow 48 hours for the refund to process.
Final decision:
The case has been closed in your favor.
eBay Customer Support comments:
"You have been issued a courtesy refund by eBay."
This item was covered for your purchase price plus original shipping. Learn more about Shopping - opens in a new window or tab
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You have escalated the case to eBay Customer Support. Sep 19, 2014 at 8:50 AM
Your message to eBay Customer Support:
"I have asked them numerous times, according to eBay's policy, to send me a shipping label. They keep insisting on me to purchase the shipping label myself to return the items. Under eBay's money back guarantee policy, the seller is responsible for paying for shipping and getting a shipping label to the buyer when the item sent is not as described or is the wrong item. They sent the wrong item, see pictures and ad. "
So, because the company skated around the shipping label thing, trying to get me to pay for it which eBay's money back guarantee said the seller was to pay for it.......eBay issued me a full refund. The company has lost the right to get their item back and the money taken back from them for the purchase and given back to me.
I am still willing to ship the item back to them if they print and email me a prepaid shipping label, but I doubt they will.
All they had to do was do that in the first place and all would have been fine.
I still can't leave negative feedback, and that upsets me what eBay did on that.
Still one more bad seller to deal with. The one that pretty much hasn't communicated with me is still under investigation from eBay.
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Good to hear you got your money back!
It is interesting though that ebay itself seems to be inconsistent in its stated policies. The two links that Corporate666 provided seem to say the exact opposite of each other:
The text at http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html) (aimed at buyers) states, in the section "When an item doesn't match the listing description":
When an item is returned to the seller
-The buyer must return the item in the same condition in which it was received.
-The seller is required to accept the return at the same location specified in the listing.
-The cost of return shipping is the seller's responsibility. For return of items with a total cost of $750 or more, we require signature confirmation.
... as others have stated before. And this is for the Ebay Money Back Guarantee, which I don't think sellers can opt in or out of.
Yet, in the other link http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/item-not-as-described.html (http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/item-not-as-described.html) (aimed at sellers), in the section "Issue a refund" it states:
Buyers need to return an item if they want a refund:
- We ask the buyer to ship the item to you—with tracking information—within 7 days.
- We require buyers to pay the cost of return shipping, unless you and the buyer have come to a different agreement.
So, the link for the buyers says, "oh don't worry, the seller has to pay", while the link for sellers says "the buyer must pay for return shipping if they want a refund from you".
Curious!
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The link for the sellers is eBay probably assuming that the seller has delivered a properly described item to the buyer, and not the wrong one. In that case, the buyer simply changed his or her mind, and just didn't want it anymore. In that case I agree with, the buyer SHOULD pay the shipping to return.
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The link for the sellers is eBay probably assuming that the seller has delivered a properly described item to the buyer, and not the wrong one. In that case, the buyer simply changed his or her mind, and just didn't want it anymore. In that case I agree with, the buyer SHOULD pay the shipping to return.
Me too, if the item the buyer got is as described, and s/he changes their mind, they should pay for the return item. However, even the seller link deals specifically with "Responding to a case when the item doesn't match the listing description". That's why I say ebay is giving contradictory info to sellers and buyers.
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They also do that because alot of people search by 'Price low to High' and that puts them in the front of all the others. I hate when they do that
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They also do that because alot of people search by 'Price low to High' and that puts them in the front of all the others. I hate when they do that
Not true. The price search is price + shipping, so putting shipping cost separate does nothing to improve one's listings. It's also not about customs fees, as most places want you to list price and shipping, and/or the total price falls below most countries exemption limits anyway.
Sellers do it because buyers would rather "pay less" for the item. They feel like they somehow got a better deal.
I have an item I sell hundreds of per month. I have them listed for $9.99 + $5 shipping and for $14.99. The $9.99+$5 shipping listing outsells the other one by about 5 to 1. Same description, same pictures, same category.
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ya, i just checked, you are right, they do the sorting including shipping.
That's so stupid that people do that. But it does make sense what wilfred said.
In my case, I'd get full refund plus shipping, but let's say:
The item was $17 plus $23 shipping, the same item from someone else was $40 with free shipping.
If I had bought from the first, then changed my mind and simply didn't want the item, I would be out the $23.00 for the item, plus the shipping to return. But if I had chosen the second, I would only be out the return shipping.
From a Seller's standpoint, I can see this as added revenue for people who return items.
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They also do that because alot of people search by 'Price low to High' and that puts them in the front of all the others. I hate when they do that
Not true. The price search is price + shipping,
NOT TRUE (for all). Ebay Australia ALWAYS defaults to 'Price: lowest first'. I always have to select 'Price + Postage: lowest first' and it pisses me off no end. Complaints/suggestions to ebay AU to enable a facility where I can make my preferred sorting method the default have fallen on deaf ears.
Please try not to be the sterotypical parochial american that assumes the world does the same as you.
To the OP, if you have been prevented from giving the neg these vendors deserve, perhaps you should at least name and shame them here for us to know to treat them appropriately?
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I don't know what the rules are on this forum for talking trash about a business. That's why I've held off on mentioning any names.
I really want to though, just because how they were trying to be deceiving on the shipping thing. That's dishonest.
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I think very high import taxes of all assembled electronics products would be a good idea. Electronics manufacturing and test equipment exempt.
If you are an aussie you need to realize that Australia is China's bitch.
Without the sales of raw materials to china (which are available elsewhere in the world) your economy is screwed.
Do you really want to hack off the people who are making your rich?
For all I care the mining boom can go bust. Hopefully our housing bubble will crash as well, and the greedy housing scalpers will lose their money. For the first time in decades young Australians might finally be able to afford their first home. Bring it on. Forcing greedy multinationals like Apple and Google to pay their fair share of taxes will help improve the income of the government and benefit the people.
An economic jolt might just make our politician goons wake up that technology (eg: electronics and IT) and manufacturing is where real economic and social benefits are, not digging up dirt and selling it to third world countries.
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For all I care the mining boom can go bust. Hopefully our housing bubble will crash as well, and the greedy housing scalpers will lose their money. For the first time in decades young Australians might finally be able to afford their first home. Bring it on. Forcing greedy multinationals like Apple and Google to pay their fair share of taxes will help improve the income of the government and benefit the people.
An economic jolt might just make our politician goons wake up that technology (eg: electronics and IT) and manufacturing is where real economic and social benefits are, not digging up dirt and selling it to third world countries.
Our housing bubble went bust and it did affect the greedy housing scalpers but to their benefit. It did hurt your average citizen that got caught in the middle.
Most houses in foreclosure when up for grabs in auctions, but only people that had the money to pay the full thing got them, so it doesn't help the young.
As for google and apple, well there are tax havens out there and why wouldn't take advantage of that? a billion here or there is just a drop in the bucket. Sounds like a lot for a person but if you multiply it by the population its really not that much.
I bet there is more tax evasion from the combined population than corporation, although it seems it's easier for them.
Let's say I buy an apartment complex and I make 10 times more than what I spend on paying the loans and my family's cost of living. I could pay taxes on the extra 90% (of course I'm exaggerating) but I could take that money and invest it to my realstate business so it's all spent and not taxable plus it helps me grow my business.
And by growing my business I have to employ people so I'm creating jobs and all of the surplus income keeps on feeding the machine.
Somehow I don't see a problem with that at all.
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Some people would argue that this is morally wrong, but when i get sent the wrong item (of low value) or that the quality of the item was grossly misrepresented by the listing/price (i.e. listing shows stock picture and asks OEM price, but the item turns up obviously counterfeit), I wait 30 days and claim the item did not arrive. If the item is not tracked, Paypal will always rule in favor of the buyer.
Probably the most border line case was when i bought a replacement LCD display for a smartphone at near-OEM price ($100). The seller claimed that it was OEM quality, money back guarantee etc. When it arrived, it looked alright physically but upon installing the display it was very washed out and even a non-techy user would spot it as being non-OEM.
Investigating the feedback of the seller, i found other buyers complaining about this exact model display. The seller sent the display via slow shipping (took a month to arrive) and was tracked within the sellers country but not Australia. I figured that the display probably only cost the seller $10-20 max, it would cost me $15 to send it back and i would probably damage it attempting to remove it from the phone so I claimed that it did not arrive. Paypal ruled in my favour because the seller could not prove that the item arrived at my door, even though they could prove that they sent it.
If i get sent the wrong item, but it is of significant value, i figure how useful it is to me or how much i can sell it for and try to bargain a partial refund with the seller. This way we aren't wasting shipping costs both ways.
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I got an email back on the other seller, the one that sent 3/6 LED flood lights, and the 3 they did send, were wrong.
EbAY said return ALL the items for a full refund, at my expense. This is eBay mind you, not the seller, they quit communicating with me.
Now, two things here....
I can't send them ALL back because 3 of them never arrived.
Second, there was an eBay money back guarantee, which, again, means if the item was NOT as described, I get my money back and return shipping is responsibility of the seller. Well, I just looked it up, without the custom charges, to send these 3 items back would be over $50 just for the shipping. The lights were 12.99 each. Do the math, not worth it, and on top of it, eBay wont refund the money because I wont be sending all 6 back. *shrug*
I called eBay today, the lady said that since it was escalated, and eBay ruled, in my favor, that the case will be closed and that I should return the items, upon which, I get the refund, IF all 6 items are returned.. When I explained I only received 3/6, and they were wrong, how can I send all 6 back? She said she couldn't help me, and that the decision was made already. I told her, asked her, where is the tracking info for the 2nd box, as stated in the communication with the seller, that the ere was a second shipment. The eBay customer rep said she couldn't find the tracking info for the second box and that the seller confirmed it was sent. She still said she couldn't do anything about the decision. I was to return all 6 items to get any refund.
Now what do I do? Looks like I'm out $78 for the cost of the Lights. If I send them back, that's another $50+ and I still wont get my refund, because I cant possibly send all 6 of them back.
Any idea or help would be appreciated. To me, $78 is alot of money. I ordered these for my mom's deck, and I'm responsible for making it right with her. It wasn't her fault, it was mine for ordering them from this seller. :(
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Some people would argue that this is morally wrong, [.........] Paypal ruled in my favour because the seller could not prove that the item arrived at my door, even though they could prove that they sent it.
So, two wrongs make a right and it's OK to engage in fraudulent activity (misrepresenting the problem to paypal) if it means you get what you want.
You paid a low price and got a poor quality product - big surprise. Perhaps you should have checked the feedback more carefully before purchase.
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I always check the feedback before ordering, but no more. If they don't have 100% exactly, I aint ordering. The ones with 100% and high feedback, tells me they help their customers. I thought having a 95% was good enough, I am wrong. :(
I am with TMM on this, They stated it was OEM, it surely was not, and is impossible to know for the average consumer until they install it and turn their phone on. Then it is too late, because 9 times out of 10, trying to remove it after it's been stuck on with that sticky crap, you're gonna crack it.
I am betting that the seller knows this, and he's getting away with selling the NON-OEM stuff, because once it has cracked, there's no way of telling really if it was or was not OEM....for the average consumer. And if TMM paid near-OEM price as he claims for it, it surely was NOT the cheapest on eBay then. He probably bought from the seller, because the seller DID state it was OEM, while the other cheaper ones did not. At least that's what I would have done.
Is it dishonest to wait 30 days, then say never got it? Well, yes and no. He ordered an OEM item. Was it? No, so technically, he never got it. I say its a fine line, but if he had told them, and it broke trying to remove from his phone, he wouldn't have gotten the refund anyway, IF he would have gotten it to begin with if he returned it having never installed it. He would have to prove it was non-OEM, and my experience with eBay, they would have probably sided with the seller on that one. I'm sure it matched the sellers picture in the ad.
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Well, I just looked it up, without the custom charges, to send these 3 items back would be over $50 just for the shipping. The lights were 12.99 each. [....]
Now what do I do? Looks like I'm out $78 for the cost of the Lights. If I send them back, that's another $50+ and I still wont get my refund, because I cant possibly send all 6 of them back.
Any idea or help would be appreciated. To me, $78 is alot of money. I ordered these for my mom's deck, and I'm responsible for making it right with her. It wasn't her fault, it was mine for ordering them from this seller. :(
Not sure what you mean "without the custom charges" - if you're sending back internationally the recipient pays any customs charges, not the sender.
Not sure what to advise - in this sort of situation you can see why some people bend the truth or just send a nicely wrapped brick back - I don't think that's what you should do (see my last post) but I can understand the frustration.
If you paid with a credit card you could claim that way (there's a time limit, usually three months to do so).
You could walk away poorer but wiser as to the risks of buying from overseas (esp China) vendors on ebay.
You could send the three back and hope the seller gives you a refund. But if you originally paid $78 and if it is going to cost $50 to send them back (research the cheapest option) then your net refund is only $28 - are the ones you have worth that - maybe reselling locally would get you just as much.
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I always check the feedback before ordering, but no more. If they don't have 100% exactly, I aint ordering. The ones with 100% and high feedback, tells me they help their customers. I thought having a 95% was good enough, I am wrong
95% is actually pretty poor but even with 100% feedback you need to read through, make sure the feedback was actually for the type of product you are buying - one popular scam on ebay was to build up good feedback selling cheap items, then switch to more expensive items and either deliver crud or not deliver at all then disappear with the money.
Another scam is/was to hack an account with good feedback, load it up with items and, again, disappear with the money.
Even without scams some vendors sell a wide range of goods, just shifting boxes without much specialist knowledge. Such vendors might not care too much about quality.
They stated it was OEM, it surely was not, and is impossible to know for the average
You always have to ask, if something is cheap why is that? Even if just 10 or 20% cheaper than elsewhere. Sometimes that's just canny purchasing but more often than not it isn't.
They might have genuinely been OEM displays but ones which had failed quality control. Quite often it seems that such parts are not destroyed but sold off cheaply and ebay is then a very common channel to offload them to end users.
ebay is slowly cleaning up its act but you still have to be careful, especially when buying from the Far East.
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Point out to eBay that under EU rules the seller has to pay return postage when the mistake is theirs. Also mention that the next step is Small Claims Court against them for failing to offer the claimed protection.
For items over £100 credit card Section 75 claims are a nice way to bypass PayPal and eBay. For bank transfers you can ask for a reversal. For anything expensive it's best to open a "faulty goods" case just before the 60 day limit, even if there is no fault. That extends the "warranty" to 90 days and you can always close it.
Amazon had the same problem for things not sold by them. Fortunately they are better at enforcing the free returns for faulty items rule.
Good advice if you are in the UK or EU but Falcon69 is in the US where, consumer protection does not seem to be quite as reliable.
I left "take them to court" out of the equation because I think the seller is non-US which would make legal action expensive and difficult.
If the seller is US based I suspect that he would be able to pursue a claim through the courts but the cost of doing so would probably still not be small. I have no idea whether there is anything akin to the Small Claims procedure in the US - for non-UK members this is a fast-tracked, cheap, minimal administration/legalese (most claimants represent themselves) service offered by the county courts for claims of up to £10,000
Although the fees are not all that much - £25 for lodging a claim up to £300 on-line (with a sliding scale for larger claims) you still have to a) be able to afford it up front and b) risk not getting it back.
If the item was bought using a credit card then the most effective would be to dispute the charge with the card issuer and get a charge-back initiated.
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dispute with paypal.
This is no longer possible since a case is already opened with ebay. Paypal and ebay disputes are mutually exclusive.
How can a company A that uses a company B for payment stop a consumer from disputing with both? That might even be illegal even if the owner of the two companies is the same these are two independent companies. One for the auction and one for the payment. If you would buy an item with Christies and pay for it with Mastercard you think Christies could stop you from going to Mastercard? I would just call Paypal and explain them the situation and go public (blog) with this BS.
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For all I care the mining boom can go bust. Hopefully our housing bubble will crash as well, and the greedy housing scalpers will lose their money. For the first time in decades young Australians might finally be able to afford their first home. Bring it on. Forcing greedy multinationals like Apple and Google to pay their fair share of taxes will help improve the income of the government and benefit the people.
An economic jolt might just make our politician goons wake up that technology (eg: electronics and IT) and manufacturing is where real economic and social benefits are, not digging up dirt and selling it to third world countries.
Our housing bubble went bust and it did affect the greedy housing scalpers but to their benefit. It did hurt your average citizen that got caught in the middle...
And by growing my business I have to employ people so I'm creating jobs and all of the surplus income keeps on feeding the machine.
Somehow I don't see a problem with that at all.
Too much wealth in the hands of few people stifles economic activity. Sharing the wealth to some extent creates economic activity.
As an illustration, let's assume a billionaire only buys four pair of jeans per year because he only needs four pairs per year. Let's assume the tax rate on that billionaire is lifted to a fair level that moves 1,000 struggling people out of poverty into the middle class (financially). They each buy four pairs of jeans per year. The difference is four pairs manufactured compare to 4,000 pairs manufactured.
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As an illustration, let's assume a billionaire only buys four pair of jeans per year because he only needs four pairs per year. Let's assume the tax rate on that billionaire is lifted to a fair level that moves 1,000 struggling people out of poverty into the middle class (financially). They each buy four pairs of jeans per year. The difference is four pairs manufactured compare to 4,000 pairs manufactured.
That is only true if you assume that unless the billionaire's wealth is redistributed it is stuffed into his matress or in some other way removed from the economy.
In practice most billionaires are rather more active, economically, than that.
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Yes, but once you hit peak consumption (due to natural resource limits) there is nothing left for the billionaires to invest in except for more efficient production and rent generating assets ... the former eliminates jobs the latter accelerates wealth inequality. Trickle down only works in growing economies, without growth it all comes tumbling up the pyramid (without increasing redistribution).
Even if you put blame on government for the current economic growth having come to a stand still you'll have to admit, consumption growth can not continue indefinitely ... yet per worker productivity can.
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Point out to eBay that under EU rules the seller has to pay return postage when the mistake is theirs. Also mention that the next step is Small Claims Court against them for failing to offer the claimed protection.
For items over £100 credit card Section 75 claims are a nice way to bypass PayPal and eBay. For bank transfers you can ask for a reversal. For anything expensive it's best to open a "faulty goods" case just before the 60 day limit, even if there is no fault. That extends the "warranty" to 90 days and you can always close it.
Amazon had the same problem for things not sold by them. Fortunately they are better at enforcing the free returns for faulty items rule.
I thought those rules only apply for EU sellers to EU buyers. So if the seller is outside of the EU they don't have to follow those rules.
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That is only true if you assume that unless the billionaire's wealth is redistributed it is stuffed into his matress or in some other way removed from the economy.
In practice most billionaires are rather more active, economically, than that.
I doubt it, most of them are basically money collectors, wanting to earn more and more to do a "who has the largest" comparison game against other billionaires.
If there was a law that one person could only have max. 250 million $ in their name and the rest would be taxed 100% unless the person spent it self on charity or other causes, then there would be some interesting new developments in this world. Only a few have grasped the meaning of "what is the point of making more money than you can ever spent because you can not take it with you after you die", for instance Bill Gates, now that is IMO a fine example of someone who has done a lot of good with his wealth and life.
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I doubt it, most of them are basically money collectors, wanting to earn more and more to do a "who has the largest" comparison game against other billionaires.
Indeed, but in order to collect even more squillions they have to do something with the money - even just leaving it in the bank means the bank will use it to finance other stuff.
Not that I disagree with the notion that past a few 10's of millions I can't really see the point in accumulating personal wealth.
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Not that I disagree with the notion that past a few 10's of millions I can't really see the point in accumulating personal wealth.
Then send me your test gear for free :)
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Not that I disagree with the notion that past a few 10's of millions I can't really see the point in accumulating personal wealth.
Then send me your test gear for free :)
I'm some way off a personal wealth of 10's of millions - in fact by at least three orders of magnitude so I'm firmly in the "accumulation" phase.
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Let's assume the tax rate on that billionaire is lifted to a fair level that moves 1,000 struggling people out of poverty into the middle class (financially).
Assuming that you are not in the bottom 10% in EU or North America, you are the richest top 10% in the world, and the richest 0.01% of all humanity who has ever walked the surface of this planet.
What truly disgusts me about today's redistributionsts is that they are all immensely interested in redistributing the wealth from the super rich (=people richer than those redistributionists) to themselves. There is never any thoughts whatsoever on redistributing the wealth from those redistributionists to the less fortunate in their own neighborhood, or in Africa, Asia, or any other poorer countries / regions, in spite of that fact that those redistributionists themselves are beyond filthy rich by the standards of those poor countries.
Never!
Piketty made millions selling his book advocating income inequality. You never hear him talking about how he would redistribute his wealth;
Warren made almost a million per 9 months preaching how evil it is to be unfairly rich. You never hear her talking about redistributing her wealth;
Buffet made a name for attacking other companies legally minimizing their tax liabilities. Yet, he staunchly defended his own companies minimizing their tax liabilities, calling it otherwise stupid and failure to fulfill their fiduciary responsibilities to their shareholders.
And those redistributionists still wonder why anyone is looking at them with apathy?
:)
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What truly disgusts me about today's redistributionsts is that they are all immensely interested in redistributing the wealth from the super rich (=people richer than those redistributionists) to themselves. There is never any thoughts whatsoever on redistributing the wealth from those redistributionists to the less fortunate in their own neighborhood, or in Africa, Asia, or any other poorer countries / regions, in spite of that fact that those redistributionists themselves are beyond filthy rich by the standards of those poor countries.
Nice strawman fallacy you've constructed there.
Capitalism certainly benefits society in certain fields. With appropriate regulation.
But we don't live in that world anymore. We now have Corporatism.
If you aren't the fictional (but legal) person known as a 'corporation' then you're nothing.
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Let's assume the tax rate on that billionaire is lifted to a fair level that moves 1,000 struggling people out of poverty into the middle class (financially).
Assuming that you are not in the bottom 10% in EU or North America, you are the richest top 10% in the world, and the richest 0.01% of all humanity who has ever walked the surface of this planet.
What truly disgusts me about today's redistributionsts is that they are all immensely interested in redistributing the wealth from the super rich (=people richer than those redistributionists) to themselves. There is never any thoughts whatsoever on redistributing the wealth from those redistributionists to the less fortunate in their own neighborhood, or in Africa, Asia, or any other poorer countries / regions, in spite of that fact that those redistributionists themselves are beyond filthy rich by the standards of those poor countries.
Never!
Wrong. A number of people I know believe in fairness and social justice. Nothing about getting money from the greedy rich to line their own pockets. They earn every cent get and pay more than their fair share in taxes, unlike the many legal housing investment tax dodgers. They also send a portion of their income to charities here and in poorer countries. Not all redistributionists are greedy hypocrites as you seem to point out.
However...
The average politician here owns 2.66 houses. It is one reason why these politicians are addicted to policies that keep housing prices excessively high and why they have done nothing about housing affordability for young Australian first home buyers. http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/08/aussie-politicians-300m-property-portfolio/ (http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/08/aussie-politicians-300m-property-portfolio/). The honest young worker is forced to pay rent - all to the benefit of the politicians' own pockets.
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How'd this get turned into a political economic thread?
eBay's decision on the other seller was to return said items. I only received 3/6 Shipping to China is just over $50. the items were 12.99 each. do the math. This is so wrong. I'm really upset with eBay. They failed to live up to their money back guarantee.
I called Paypal this morning, they said this is an eBay problem, and nothing they can do about it. They suggested I file a dispute with my credit card company.
It seems, if you have a HIGH sell number, high volume you sell on eBay, the more chance that ebay will not honor a buyers request for money back guarantee. I guess eBay is afraid of losing the business from the high volume seller. The other seller, that eBay finally did honor in my favor and refunded my money, has a very low volume in sales. But this other seller, eBay did not honor the money back guarantee, in fact, they fail to notice that I repeatedly said I only received 3 of the 6 SAME items I ordered from the same seller. I selected 6 as quantity when I pressed BUY IT NOW.
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Some useful info for anyone in the UK...
From 13 June 2014 the Consumer Contracts Regulations, which implement the Consumer Rights Directive in UK law, come into effect.
The regulations apply to items bought online, at a distance, or away from a trader's premises (for example, at home or at work).
They replace the Distance Selling Regulations and Doorstep Selling Regulations. They also make it an obligation for traders to give consumers certain information.
A summary about who pays for the delivery cost.
Refunding the cost of delivery The trader has to refund the basic delivery cost of getting the goods to you in the first place, so if you opted for enhanced service eg guaranteed next day, it only has to refund the basic cost.
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A summary about who pays for the delivery cost....
That covers refund of the original delivery - not who pays for the goods to be returned to the vendor.
AFAIK the rules under CCR are the same as DSR, i.e for a "change of mind" return you can require the customer to pay the return cost but only if you told them that at the time of purchase.
We aren't talking about a change of mind return though.
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A summary about who pays for the delivery cost....
That covers refund of the original delivery - not who pays for the goods to be returned to the vendor.
AFAIK the rules under CCR are the same as DSR, i.e for a "change of mind" return you can require the customer to pay the return cost but only if you told them that at the time of purchase.
We aren't talking about a change of mind return though.
The original poster stated that... "It was suppose to be RAINPROOF. They sent me the non-rainproof model." so in the UK, the seller failed to take "reasonable care"; so - in which case they are responsible for any additional delivery fees (next day delivery or not) BUT unfortunately I've no idea what the regulations are in the states, might be worth looking for a similar clause.
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The original poster stated that... "It was suppose to be RAINPROOF. They sent me the non-rainproof model." so in the UK, the seller failed to take "reasonable care"; so - in which case they are responsible for any additional delivery fees (next day delivery or not) BUT unfortunately I've no idea what the regulations are in the states, might be worth looking for a similar clause.
Exactly.
You quoted a bit of the regs to do with "change of mind" returns and we're talking about return due to faults/not as described.
We're also (as it happens) now talking, or also talking, about a 2nd order of 6 LED flood lights only half of which turned up and they were the wrong ones anyway.
Finally the discussion is also around who pays the shipping back to the vendor in this case and what ebay's policy is on the matter.
It looks as though Falcon69 has been caught in the fine print between circumstances when ebay make the vendor pay the return postage and when they do not. He also seems to have been hit with a demand by ebay that he return all 6 when only three are in his posession. I think he's struggling even more than usual because he's in the US and the vendor isn't (China, I presume, but confess not to have read every word in the thread).
I don't recall whether you paid by credit card - if you did your best recourse is now to dispute the charge with the CC company.
If not then you might be stuck unless anyone else has any ideas as to how to make ebay see sense.
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The original poster stated that... "It was suppose to be RAINPROOF. They sent me the non-rainproof model." so in the UK, the seller failed to take "reasonable care"; so - in which case they are responsible for any additional delivery fees (next day delivery or not) BUT unfortunately I've no idea what the regulations are in the states, might be worth looking for a similar clause.
Exactly.
You quoted a bit of the regs to do with "change of mind" returns and we're talking about return due to faults/not as described.
We're also (as it happens) now talking, or also talking, about a 2nd order of 6 LED flood lights only half of which turned up and they were the wrong ones anyway.
Finally the discussion is also around who pays the shipping back to the vendor in this case and what ebay's policy is on the matter.
It looks as though Falcon69 has been caught in the fine print between circumstances when ebay make the vendor pay the return postage and when they do not. He also seems to have been hit with a demand by ebay that he return all 6 when only three are in his posession. I think he's struggling even more than usual because he's in the US and the vendor isn't (China, I presume, but confess not to have read every word in the thread).
I don't recall whether you paid by credit card - if you did your best recourse is now to dispute the charge with the CC company.
If not then you might be stuck unless anyone else has any ideas as to how to make ebay see sense.
no; it's from the (UK) Supply of Goods and Services Act.
13 Implied term about care and skill.
In a contract for the supply of a service where the supplier is acting in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the supplier will carry out the service with reasonable care and skill.
Basically if the seller is a (uk) business you are covered; they HAVE to refund you completely including the postage from you to them.
I've got my full money back on lots of occasions - even when they have argued specifying their t&c's. The terms and conditions of any business (ebay included) are worthless IF they contradict your legal rights as a consumer in your country.
BUT, if it's a private seller - you're screwed! ;-)
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Basically if the seller is a (uk) business you are covered; they HAVE to refund you completely including the postage from you to them.
The same goes for every european country.
Welcome to the official Toys "R" Us eBay store. Toys "R" Us, Inc. is the world's leading dedicated toy and juvenile products retailer, offering a differentiated shopping experience through its family of brands. It currently sells merchandise in more than 1,560 stores, including 845 Toys "R" Us® and Babies "R" Us® stores in the United States, and more than 510 international stores and 200 licensed stores in 33 countries and jurisdictions.
This worthless piece of text comes from the Toys "R" Us webstore on ebay.
The problem is that ebay does not make it mandatory for sellers to state clearly from where they are selling.
The terms and conditions of any business (ebay included) are worthless IF they contradict your legal rights as a consumer in your country.
How am I (or ebay for that matter) ever going to figure out what my right really are if I don't know where the seller is located?
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no; it's from the (UK) Supply of Goods and Services Act.
Well, you quoted passages to do with the Consumer Contracts Regulations which are about consumers rights to cancel and refund of the original delivery charge.
Supply of Goods and Services Act is older legislation (1982) so is not specific to online transactions. It still applies but CCR gives additional rights.
CCR also applies if the goods are faulty and helps give some additional rights (but Sales of Goods and Supply of Goods and Services are also in scope).
I'm not saying anything you have said is wrong but that you need to match the legislation you are quoting to the issue at hand.
You are quoting stuff which is about right to cancel where the goods are not faulty or not as described. We're talking about Falcon69's rights when the goods were faulty (or rather not as described).
If he were in the UK, yes, he would have the right of a refund and, yes, the supplier would have to pay the return costs for the goods as well as the original delivery charges. I'm not disagreeing with you here.
13 Implied term about care and skill.
In a contract for the supply of a service where the supplier is acting in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the supplier will carry out the service with reasonable care and skill.
Basically if the seller is a (uk) business you are covered; they HAVE to refund you completely including the postage from you to them.
Yes, but the paragraph you quote does not support your subsequent assertion even though both are valid individually.
The quote about care and skill means that if someone is offering a service as a business there is a greater implied level of skill than someone not carrying out a business. If you employ a brickie to build a wall you expect it to be done neatly and not fall down a week later - and if it does then the required level of skill has not been demonstrated.. If you pay your mate who's handy with a trowel a few quid and the wall is wonky and falls over then that's just the way things are.
It sets up the basis for a claim for a refund because the required skill and care was not present; it doesn't have anything to say about delivery charges.
I've got my full money back on lots of occasions - even when they have argued specifying their t&c's. The terms and conditions of any business (ebay included) are worthless IF they contradict your legal rights as a consumer in your country.
Yes you're right here and so have I, including repairs for goods beyond their stated warranty period.
BUT, if it's a private seller - you're screwed! ;-)
Nope, if it's an online sale private sellers have to meet the same standards these days. CCR also applies to auctions which the DSR did not.
Actually I take that back. Having re-checked, private sellers are still exempt from the regulations - although "as described" still applies. CCR does apply to auctions now though.
How'd this get turned into a political economic thread?
Shift happens (http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/10000/5000/100/15107/15107.strip.gif), as they say :)
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I called Paypal this morning, they said this is an eBay problem, and nothing they can do about it. They suggested I file a dispute with my credit card company.
I know that upthread Corporate666 complained about buyers who are quick to open credit-card disputes, but if the customer is honest and the seller is a crook, the FIRST thing the customer should do is open the dispute with the credit issuer, and then he should open the dispute with eBay and PayPal.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, "you get what you pay for," but we're supposed to allow the crooks to operate unhindered? Nope. Let the credit card issuers do their job. They're on the side of the consumer in these cases.
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I know that upthread Corporate666 complained about buyers who are quick to open credit-card disputes, but if the customer is honest and the seller is a crook, the FIRST thing the customer should do is open the dispute with the credit issuer, and then he should open the dispute with eBay and PayPal.
Only if you don't care if PayPal closes your account :(
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I know that upthread Corporate666 complained about buyers who are quick to open credit-card disputes, but if the customer is honest and the seller is a crook, the FIRST thing the customer should do is open the dispute with the credit issuer, and then he should open the dispute with eBay and PayPal.
Only if you don't care if PayPal closes your account :(
They won't. PayPal literally told him to do it.
PayPal processes such a large volume of transactions that they don't have to use a credit card processor/gateway. They *are* the processor and deal directly with AMEX/MC/Visa.
As such they handle chargebacks internally. This means they will take the money out of the seller's account, once the buyer issues a chargeback through their bank/CC provider.
I've had to do a number of chargebacks over the years. PayPal has no problem with it.
Sent from my Smartphone
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no; it's from the (UK) Supply of Goods and Services Act.
Well, you quoted passages to do with the Consumer Contracts Regulations which are about consumers rights to cancel and refund of the original delivery charge.
Supply of Goods and Services Act is older legislation (1982) so is not specific to online transactions. It still applies but CCR gives additional rights.
CCR also applies if the goods are faulty and helps give some additional rights (but Sales of Goods and Supply of Goods and Services are also in scope).
I'm not saying anything you have said is wrong but that you need to match the legislation you are quoting to the issue at hand.
You are quoting stuff which is about right to cancel where the goods are not faulty or not as described. We're talking about Falcon69's rights when the goods were faulty (or rather not as described).
If he were in the UK, yes, he would have the right of a refund and, yes, the supplier would have to pay the return costs for the goods as well as the original delivery charges. I'm not disagreeing with you here.
13 Implied term about care and skill.
In a contract for the supply of a service where the supplier is acting in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the supplier will carry out the service with reasonable care and skill.
Basically if the seller is a (uk) business you are covered; they HAVE to refund you completely including the postage from you to them.
Yes, but the paragraph you quote does not support your subsequent assertion even though both are valid individually.
The quote about care and skill means that if someone is offering a service as a business there is a greater implied level of skill than someone not carrying out a business. If you employ a brickie to build a wall you expect it to be done neatly and not fall down a week later - and if it does then the required level of skill has not been demonstrated.. If you pay your mate who's handy with a trowel a few quid and the wall is wonky and falls over then that's just the way things are.
It sets up the basis for a claim for a refund because the required skill and care was not present; it doesn't have anything to say about delivery charges.
I've got my full money back on lots of occasions - even when they have argued specifying their t&c's. The terms and conditions of any business (ebay included) are worthless IF they contradict your legal rights as a consumer in your country.
Yes you're right here and so have I, including repairs for goods beyond their stated warranty period.
BUT, if it's a private seller - you're screwed! ;-)
Nope, if it's an online sale private sellers have to meet the same standards these days. CCR also applies to auctions which the DSR did not.
How'd this get turned into a political economic thread?
Shift happens (http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/10000/5000/100/15107/15107.strip.gif), as they say :)
Sorry but the only law a private seller falls under is those relating to the legal right to sell the goods in the first place. see autotrader.co.uk disputes with a private seller. http://www.autotrader.co.uk/advice/2010/09/buying/returning-a-car (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/advice/2010/09/buying/returning-a-car)
also I don't agree with your definition of "reasonable care" and to what it covers; I once got a nice bit of money back for a friend from a large car insurance company even though it was my friends fault for putting the wrong fuel in their car; and considering it was in the t&c as not covered by the policy; I think i did ok! ;-)
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Sorry but the only law a private seller falls under is those relating to the legal right to sell the goods in the first place. see autotrader.co.uk disputes with a private seller. http://www.autotrader.co.uk/advice/2010/09/buying/returning-a-car (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/advice/2010/09/buying/returning-a-car)
The actual sale for a car is usually face-to-face hence different rules apply.
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Sorry but the only law a private seller falls under is those relating to the legal right to sell the goods in the first place. see autotrader.co.uk disputes with a private seller. http://www.autotrader.co.uk/advice/2010/09/buying/returning-a-car (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/advice/2010/09/buying/returning-a-car)
The actual sale for a car is usually face-to-face hence different rules apply.
That's the problem rules are not law! ;-)
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I know that upthread Corporate666 complained about buyers who are quick to open credit-card disputes, but if the customer is honest and the seller is a crook, the FIRST thing the customer should do is open the dispute with the credit issuer, and then he should open the dispute with eBay and PayPal.
Only if you don't care if PayPal closes your account :(
They won't. PayPal literally told him to do it.
PayPal processes such a large volume of transactions that they don't have to use a credit card processor/gateway. They *are* the processor and deal directly with AMEX/MC/Visa.
As such they handle chargebacks internally. This means they will take the money out of the seller's account, once the buyer issues a chargeback through their bank/CC provider.
I've had to do a number of chargebacks over the years. PayPal has no problem with it.
You are mixing up 2 different situations. In the case of the OP, where supposedly PayPal told him to do a chargeback, it makes sense to go ahead (although the verbal assurance of a PayPal CSR wouldn't stop PayPal from closing his account if they felt like it). That is different from following the advice of Bassman59 to open a simultaneous chargeback and eBay/PayPal dispute. PayPal considers this to be double-dipping.
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Sorry but the only law a private seller falls under is those relating to the legal right to sell the goods in the first place.
Yes, apologies - you are correct - not sure where I picked up that particular bit of misinformation but I'd become certain that one change the CCR introduced was that all online transactions came under its remit.
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Only if you don't care if PayPal closes your account :(
You don't need a PayPal account to buy at eBay. I closed mine long time ago when they asked for my bank account information.
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Only if you don't care if PayPal closes your account :(
You don't need a PayPal account to buy at eBay. I closed mine long time ago when they asked for my bank account information.
The context of what I said was doing a chargeback of a PayPal payment funded by a credit card. If you don't have a PayPal account, obviously it's not relevant to you.
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When I called PayPal and talked to the lady, I asked her what to do next. She said to get in contact with the credit card company and open a dispute. When I told her that I heard somewhere that if I did that, that PayPal would ban my account from use. She said, in her words while laughing, 'No, PayPal doesn't do that for charge-backs. We handle charge-backs all the time'. So the statement someone said that PayPal handles their own charge-backs in house with credit cards seems valid here, as that is what the Customer Service Rep for PayPal said to me.
I have contacted the credit card company today. No word yet. Still very upset how eBay handled this situation, yet, with the low sell volume of the other seller who did not honor my purchase, eBay came through and refunded my money.
I seriously think that eBay gives leeway of the rules/policy to their sellers that deal in high volume sells.
FYI, yes, the company for the LED lights are from China. I will be purchasing some new ones from the US tomorrow, at twice the cost! :*( I'm going to try and avoid international sells from now on. This headache just isn't worth it.
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How sure are you that the US company is not just a China drop shipper?
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The new one I order from? I hope not. But the shipping estimate of arrival is like 2 weeks less, and the fact that they say in the ad that they are located (for example, Sacramento, CA) mans I should have an easier time of making a claim on THEM if they do not deliver the product I order.
You are right though, chances are, they probably are a drop shipper, and I doubt there's anyway to know that. I doubt if I eMail them, they'll tell me.
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...chase, eBay came through and refunded my money.
May be worth changing the thread title...
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Someone should crowd source to sue Ebay !!!
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I know that upthread Corporate666 complained about buyers who are quick to open credit-card disputes, but if the customer is honest and the seller is a crook, the FIRST thing the customer should do is open the dispute with the credit issuer, and then he should open the dispute with eBay and PayPal.
Only if you don't care if PayPal closes your account :(
I have been the victim of a vendor who ran out the clock for eBay/Paypal restitution.
(I know better now).
But I got ALL my money back because I instituted a chargeback via my C/C (much longer time limits).
Paypal did nothing to my account. (They have in the past frequently asked for me to associate my paypal account with something other than a credit card - I wonder why? - but their automated emails have dried up).
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Still very upset how eBay handled this situation,
The credit card companies have immense power over eBay. When you deal with eBay/paypal directly, they are dealing with one powerless individual; When you deal with eBay/paypal through your credit card company, they are dealing with a giant.
In cases like that, I would just call my credit card company and put that charge in dispute. After that, paypal has to take care of you - which is easy for them as they hold onto vendor money for much longer a period of time.
PS: don't worry about hurting the feelings of those vendors. They are in the business of taking that. If they cannot, they should get out.
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PS: don't worry about hurting the feelings of those vendors. They are in the business of taking that. If they cannot, they should get out.
+1
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UPDATE:
I initiated a chargeback through the Credit Card company.
I sent in all evidence. They reviewed it and gave the money back to me. Paypal Reviewed it all, and charged me for the item again and closed the case. The credit card company said case is closed also, and will not re-reverse the charges again.
So, I am out the 3 LED lights, of which I had ordered 6, and the 3 that were sent, were wrong. $77.94 I am out and nothing to show for it. I am seriously thinking of closing my PayPal account, and eBay account. There is no protection for the Buyer it seems. A company that has thousands of deals a month with eBay, will (it seems) always win the favor of eBay vs. it's buyers.
The old saying goes, a single person can't fight a big company and expect to win. In this case, it seems true.
Really upset. REALLY UPSET.
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That's a pain but it doesn't mean all eBay sellers are like that.
I've returned an item before and don't have any problems.
You need to move on. Blacklist the seller and be more suspicious: if it's too good to be true, it probably is!
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UPDATE:
A company that has thousands of deals a month with eBay, will (it seems) always win the favor of eBay vs. it's buyers.
The old saying goes, a single person can't fight a big company and expect to win. In this case, it seems true.
Really upset. REALLY UPSET.
Please do the community a favour and provide the name of the vendor (ebay ID).
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I sent in all evidence. They reviewed it and gave the money back to me. Paypal Reviewed it all, and charged me for the item again and closed the case. The credit card company said case is closed also, and will not re-reverse the charges again.
Well, at least now you know: After successfully getting a chargeback on a Paypal charge, rip up your credit card and report it lost/stolen, so they can't just charge you again. Because Paypal are scumbags.
Oh, and you'll probably have to kiss your Paypal account goodbye too.
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The credit card company said case is closed also, and will not re-reverse the charges again.
Surely it is a new charge which you dispute again.
Sounds pretty shady to me
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Paypal ... charged me for the item again
Presumably you didn't authorize that charge. If so, it is a far easier case to dispute that charge with your credit card company - I would call it a fraud -> as in someone charged your card without your authorization.
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That is why I sent in a picture of the item received, as well, I sent them a copy of the picture on their ad to confirm. they clearly don't match and no way serves the same purpose (outdoor vs. indoor)
I'm sure sellers deal alot with false claims, but in my case, it is legitimate.
I am just frustrated with the lack of intelligence at these places when picking orders. No sense of quality control or double checking order.
I am in dispute with another as well. I ordered 6 led flood lights, they sent 3. And the 3 they sent are not as pictured, although, i can modify them to work.
How does someone look at an order, and see the number 3 instead of 6? This particular order came from China. Are they THAT stupid over there? My 5 year old nephew can distinguish between 3 items vs. 6 items.
It generally pays to shop with a seller that truly understands their products.
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UPDATE:
I initiated a chargeback through the Credit Card company.
I sent in all evidence. They reviewed it and gave the money back to me. Paypal Reviewed it all, and charged me for the item again and closed the case. The credit card company said case is closed also, and will not re-reverse the charges again.
So, I am out the 3 LED lights, of which I had ordered 6, and the 3 that were sent, were wrong. $77.94 I am out and nothing to show for it. I am seriously thinking of closing my PayPal account, and eBay account. There is no protection for the Buyer it seems. A company that has thousands of deals a month with eBay, will (it seems) always win the favor of eBay vs. it's buyers.
The old saying goes, a single person can't fight a big company and expect to win. In this case, it seems true.
Really upset. REALLY UPSET.
The way ebay operates, is they push all responsibility to the seller. The buyer and seller battle it out until one of them gives up. They truly don't care. Others have noticed the same when dealing with the whole Pittney-Bowes World Shipping Program. My best advice if you continue to use ebay, is to only deal with a select few sellers who you can trust. (ie: no running to ebay for cheap China crap)
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I'm not sure how you went about matter but my experience as a seller is that "the customer is always right" and unless I have overwhelming evidence of wrong doing I end up out of pocket and it has happened.
For example, ebay allow buyers to open a non received case if the item does not show up on time so if after 2 days for first class royal mail or 4 days for second class royal mail I can be facing hassle. Royal mail in the mean time in their terms and conditions say that they reserve the right to take 15 days on top of the "delivery aim time" to deliver and that is that. ebay on the other hand want the case resolved in 8 days and even I can see that it is unreasonable to make a customer wait longer than that, yet I invariably end up stuck in the middle as it has taken 10 days for a package to travel just 7 miles up the road! so do I assume it is lost and refund/replace or do I enforce the royal mail terms which the buyer has indirectly signed up to. How can ebay operate in contravention with other prevailing terms and conditions ? It's a mess that the seller are left to deal with and pay the price for. I have told them that they are non complying and they don't care, they told me to just charge more to "insure" myself against the losses, so my buyers have to pay the price.
Buying from another country can be tricky, different ebay rules apply, maybe paypal has a firmer grip internationally. dealing with china ? well good luck! we know what the chinese think of honesty...........
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I buy a few bits and bobs from China using eBay and Aliexpress.
Had a wrong item sent and the buyer quickly replaced it with the correct one after I sent him a photo.
Rarely I loose stuff or it has been VERY slow to arrive, normally small packages.
I normally bulk up packages with more stuff I might need from the same seller to reduce the risk of getting lost in the mail.
I can say my experiences with the Chinese have been excellent, cheap product not always perfect, but if you raise your dissatisfaction with them they will sharpen up their act.
But the worst Ebay crook I've encountered was a Aussie.
He never sent the goods. Excuses, excuses.....
After several emails back and forth, all with hollow promises, I opened a dispute, copied & pasted all the emails to eBay and got all monies returned.
You just have to open a case before the allowed time expires.
Another US sellers goods never arrived and he sent another set no charge. :-+
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I had an Irish buyer claiming I missed stuff out in the package, I sent him the bits and then he started telling me that I had sent him stuff I don't even have in stock! Them I sold an inflatable to an Irish lady who didn't pay and then contacted me asking why it had not arrived. I asked he to provide a detail of the transaction so I could track it down as i had not been getting all of my payment notifications from paypal, I never got a reply, on checking I found it had not been paid for. Had to chase a scotish guy for payment and then he claimed good never arrived and asked for a refund rather than replacement (I'm not foking stupid!). Got an item returned from an english address as "name not known" then got the guy chasing for his stuff. So i had to send it AGAIN at my cost.
Plenty of crooked buyers out there but sellers have to give the benefit of the doubt and take the cost. I do have a growing list of buyers who are blocked from purchasing from me. I don't see why other genuine buyers should have to pay the costs and I'm in it to make some money if that is not too much to ask.
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I don't think the race/country of the seller has much to do with it, it's down to if they are a commercial seller or not. Individuals don't care about a bit of negative feedback and will happily screw you out of a few quid. The commercial guys can't take many hits before their account is suspended.
I'm talking overall quality of products. The chinese will sell anything no matter how bad it is. you will generally get what you pay for but they are willing to go down to such a poor level of quality as they try to outdo each other for sales that we end up screwed. Unfortunately most people only care about price. I am always happy to pay what something is worth and get good quality. most people thought only care for the here and now and feel better than everyone else if they get "a better deal". We humans must be the most stupid race to ever live in the universe!
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Things that irritate me as a seller:
1. Buyers who don't bother to actually read the description in the listing.
This happens far too often! I had a guy overseas buy a DVD boxed set. I clearly pointed out in the ad in bold and in coloured text that the discs were Region 4 and suitable for playing only in Australia or on multi-region players. He had a whinge when he realised his machine wouldn't play the discs and also requested that I cancel the transaction after I had already sent out the item. I've also had several people message me asking me questions about things that are already explained in the listing.
2. International buyers who pay for shipping via sea mail then complain about the delivery times.
Again, I make it 100% clear that by default, I send stuff out via sea mail which can have a delivery time of up to 3 months depending on the buyers location. I've found most people just want the cheapest shipment, especially for large or heavy items and don't care about the delivery time. I also give buyers the option of air mail if they want delivery within 10 days, but they need to tell me as my crystal ball is in for recalibration. Again, all in bold and coloured text. I couldn't make it more obvious.
3. Buyers who don't update their address details in eBay and Paypal.
This happened a few months ago. A buyer changed his address on eBay but neglected to do so on Paypal. I ship stuff out via the address from their Paypal account (as seller protection only applies if you address the item as per the buyers Paypal details). I spent a lot of my time on the phone to Australia Post trying to intercept the parcel then have it redirected. (Aust. Post were actually very helpful and I managed to catch it before it went out for delivery to the wrong address).
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I have had similar problems. i sent stuff to israel a few years ago and the guy screwed me down on shipping as he didn't want to pay more than my estimate which did not take israel into account. The guy was an absolute pain. I sent via land/sea and then they had one of these little wars they have every few years, and next i know he is whinging and whining it had not arrived. I explained in a very direct manner that he got as good shipping as he wanted to pay for and hadn't he noticed that wars generally slow down mail if not stop it, if not obliterate it. Luckily it arrived a week later and he was happy.
In my early days as a business seller some idiot put different addresses on paypal and ebay and then made a claim, luckily as it was clearly his fault they decided neither of us was at fault and gave him his money back but did not take it off me. They have done that a number of times as they are shit scared people stop using ebay (as if!), I guess that is why fees are so extortionate now as we all have to subsidise asshole buyers.
Had a problem selling a cheap mobile phone that "looked" like an iphone and got a case opened because it was too small (didn't look at the picture very well), again ebay gave the stupid woman her 20 quid back and spared me but of course I pay for all of that in my fees, 10% to ebay and for items under £10 5% to paypal, and the bastards won't even pay tax in this country.
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I don't think the race/country of the seller has much to do with it, it's down to if they are a commercial seller or not.
Yes, of course. I didn't mean for what I said to sound that way. My bad. :-//
I still think that people should be wary of where and who they're buying things from. Lots of scumbags out there.
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you will generally get what you pay for but they are willing to go down to such a poor level of quality as they try to outdo each other for sales that we end up screwed.
If you only want to pay €1 for a pack of 10 light bulbs, including shipping from China... Well, you didn't get screwed, you got what you paid for.
Well quite, although the morality of offering such junk is questionable. It is clear it serves no purpose so why sell it.
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Don't blame the Chinese for selling (and making) something people want to buy. If the Chinese suddenly decided to stop making crap then the next most enterprising and efficient country would start.
Blame the stupid people who buy it. Only if THEY stop buying it will it stop getting made.
Nobody actually wants to buy rubbish, the problem is on both sides, people want cheap and the chinese will give cheap without caring that the products are useless. It's time everything imported lasted at least 2 years of the chinese get a fine for disposing of it.
When I can buy a CFL for £8 that was no better than one I'd have bought for £1 clearly there is still a problem for joe blogs to know what he is buying and so we go back to a previous comment that you need 4 degrees to buy a simple item of consumer goods
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Here's the thing about eBay: for some vendors it is the very best way to reach cost-conscious consumers.
However, the phrase that keeps returning to my mind, over and over again, each time I read about a bad eBay purchase is "caveat emptor" or "buyer beware."
If you really want to get guarantees about things, ask some local physical store owner you know to buy the thing for you, mark it up and sell it to you. Do this all the time, every ebay purchase. The store owner will add markup and in the 1 in 20 times you get something back that you didn't order, or don't want, you've built up a rapport with the local guy and the local guy will cover you. He'll backflip in order to keep you happy, and he'll order another, eat the shipping and fight the eBay vendor for you.
This is EXACTLY what they do with every other product the have for sale in their store, and it will be second nature to them. Buy from a reseller, mark up, and stock on shelves, except from you, they only do special orders from a website, and you pay markup on something you could order yourself in case there is a problem with the order.
Now, think of all the money you're going to spend paying that local storefront owner in profit just to sell you something you could have purchased yourself, then realize, that even though you get the wrong part once in a while, that you're still ahead of the game when buying cheap stuff on ebay.
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All electrical items, except things like light bulbs that are consumable, have to last at least two years in the EU. It varies from country to country but 2 years is the EU minimum. So if any product, from China or otherwise, fails before then it should be replaced or refunded.
Of course, the responsibility for that lies with the vendor. eBay should enforce refunding of return postage costs. The problem is that stuff on eBay comes with a 30 day warranty only, after which they don't care and it's up to you to take the vendor to Small Claims Court. So basically by choosing to buy direct from sellers in China on eBay you are creating a situation where your legal rights are almost impossible to enforce.
It's your choice to do that. If you want better protection you can pay a little more and buy from a UK or EU seller. If you are too cheap to do that, you must accept that your rights are likely to be unenforceable. The only other option is banning all such imports, because clearly trying to issue fines is never going to work.
It gets worse. ebay cannot be dealt with in the UK as they are not uk registered. They would probably only be persued for blatant law breaking. Hence they can overrule any other companies terms and tell you what your terms have to be.
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I'd rather be a buyer than a seller on ebay given their rules and by last count ebay tells me I've sold $12,685.82 worth of stuff (almost all small sales). Except for a couple hundred dollars now and then, I've spent all of that on ebay buying more crap (mostly from China). I can't really think of a bad experience with all those transactions.
Getting back to the OP's first post. That package seems about the right size for Priority Mail which is insured automatically for $50. Of course I believe technically the seller will get the $50.
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All electrical items, except things like light bulbs that are consumable, have to last at least two years in the EU. It varies from country to country but 2 years is the EU minimum. So if any product, from China or otherwise, fails before then it should be replaced or refunded.
Of course, the responsibility for that lies with the vendor. eBay should enforce refunding of return postage costs. The problem is that stuff on eBay comes with a 30 day warranty only, after which they don't care and it's up to you to take the vendor to Small Claims Court. So basically by choosing to buy direct from sellers in China on eBay you are creating a situation where your legal rights are almost impossible to enforce.
It's your choice to do that. If you want better protection you can pay a little more and buy from a UK or EU seller. If you are too cheap to do that, you must accept that your rights are likely to be unenforceable. The only other option is banning all such imports, because clearly trying to issue fines is never going to work.
You can't expect EU rules to apply to a non-EU (e.g. Asian) seller, just because you are in the EU. It would seem to me (but IANAL) that legally you are the importer, so it is your responsibility to play by EU rules, not the place you are importing from. If your item breaks within the 2 year period, you go after the importer. But that's you.
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All electrical items, except things like light bulbs that are consumable, have to last at least two years in the EU. It varies from country to country but 2 years is the EU minimum. So if any product, from China or otherwise, fails before then it should be replaced or refunded.
Of course, the responsibility for that lies with the vendor. eBay should enforce refunding of return postage costs. The problem is that stuff on eBay comes with a 30 day warranty only, after which they don't care and it's up to you to take the vendor to Small Claims Court. So basically by choosing to buy direct from sellers in China on eBay you are creating a situation where your legal rights are almost impossible to enforce.
It's your choice to do that. If you want better protection you can pay a little more and buy from a UK or EU seller. If you are too cheap to do that, you must accept that your rights are likely to be unenforceable. The only other option is banning all such imports, because clearly trying to issue fines is never going to work.
You can't expect EU rules to apply to a non-EU (e.g. Asian) seller, just because you are in the EU. It would seem to me (but IANAL) that legally you are the importer, so it is your responsibility to play by EU rules, not the place you are importing from. If your item breaks within the 2 year period, you go after the importer. But that's you.
The goods should be CE marked to be sold in the EU, it is the responsability of the manufacturer to ensure they comply, if the manufacturer does not state compliance then the next person in the chain who may be the importer is resonsible. responsibility carry's on down the chain until the last person who sells the item. Of course CE marks are often just marks.
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I rather ebay leave it alone, it will be bad for the rest of the world since it will increase the price of items.
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You automatically have to comply to your countries own rules and regulations, that is why the return period has increased from 7 days to 14 days on ebay, not their idea they got it handed
You can't expect EU rules to apply to a non-EU (e.g. Asian) seller, just because you are in the EU. It would seem to me (but IANAL) that legally you are the importer, so it is your responsibility to play by EU rules, not the place you are importing from. If your item breaks within the 2 year period, you go after the importer. But that's you.
Correct, you are considered an importer. For clarification I didn't mean enforce any legal requirement, I just meant that eBay should make it policy to require sellers to pay return postage. EU sellers are already required to by law, and eBay should make it their rule that all sellers are.
to them.
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I just meant that eBay should make it policy to require sellers to pay return postage. EU sellers are already required to by law, and eBay should make it their rule that all sellers are.
I would already be happy if ebay would require all sellers at least to state the country they are conducting their business from.
That way I could at least determine what my rights as a buyer really are.
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seller should be paying return postage if the item is faulty. If you change your mind which your allowed to do in 14 days the buyer pays the return postage.
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The rules they have to comply are not always dictated by policy, there are laws behind it all, and the trade rules between countries are well defined for quite a while.
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DANGEROUS FAIRY LIGHTS SEIZED BY NORTHAMPTONSHIRE TRADING STANDARDS
Northamptonshire County Council’s Trading Standards team has seized several sets of fairy lights from an internet seller after tests proved that they failed to meet safety standards.
Trading Standards officers found that a number of the lights had been returned to the seller after having caught fire or melted in the buyers’ homes.
A toy train set has also been recovered by the council’s Trading Standards team from a stall at Kettering market which has wheels and carriages that can be easily detached and pose a choking hazard to young children.
Trading Standards staff are now asking Christmas shoppers to be cautious when buying toys and decorations.
Cllr André González de Savage, county council cabinet member for strategic infrastructure, economic growth and public protection, said: “While we don’t want to spoil anyone’s festive cheer, these incidents demonstrate that shoppers should take care when buying Christmas toys and decorations to make sure that they are safe and fit for purpose.
“It can be easy at this time of year to be tempted by cheap offers, but you need to be sure if you’re buying children’s toys that they comply with safety regulations and that Christmas decorations do not pose a fire hazard.”
Northamptonshire Trading Standards has the following safety advice:
Make sure toys are labelled with a CE mark and the name and address of the manufacturer or importer.
With toys, look for small parts that could come off and pose a choking risk to children.
Fairy lights should also carry a CE mark and should include clear instructions for use.
Check fairy lights before use for shoddy or poor construction that may result in a risk of fire.
Many Christmas decorations and novelty items can appear to be toys and will appeal to children, but they may not be suitable for young children to play with.
Consumers can report items that do not conform to safety standards to Trading Standards by calling Citizens Advice Consumer Service on 03454 04 05 06.