I have the feeling that the whole trade war starts from a pile of nonsense.

[windsmurf]

The problem is with those who hire illegal immigrants.  If we started to lock up those who hire them, then the problem will disappear, since there wouldn't be any jobs for them here.

I know a Chinese restaurant owner, who has a friend who was also a Chinese restaurant owner. That guy hired a Mexican illegal worker, provided him with shelter and food, but then was raided by immigration service.

What he didn't know is the illegal immigrant has a long rap sheet, and he unknowingly accepted a guy with a few felonies on his head.

Still, he was charged for knowingly sheltering felonies, because illegal immigration is a felony. All other felonies that he was not aware of were also counted towards his sheltering.

Combined with other offenses raised around the illegal immigrant worker, such as OSHS violation, tax violation and food safety violation, he was punched hard.

He was sentenced 17 years, his son sentenced 6 years, and his wife sentenced 3 years, plus his $600k saving and his shop were forfeited.

And FYI, the family who ran the Chinese restaurant were naturalized for decades.

I'm speculating here, but I'm sure he was easy pickings for some politician who wanted PR creds for "being tough on illegal immigration" while letting the large illegal employers (mostly in agriculture) that do the "proper lobbying" slide...

Speaking of lobbying, the biggest issue in our government is lobbying, which is nothing more than legalized bribery.  It really needs to be stopped, but neither D nor R want to give up the infusion of $.   https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/index.php

[technix]

I was referring to the US in this case. In a democracy the people need to be well informed and be able to have a good and honest public discussion, or else they will not be able to make a good choice during election (隔山买老牛). For a functioning democracy you need many more components than a free election. For example you need the rule of law, good education system, freedom to organise a new political party and free press/speech (and other things). I think that is why the Arab Spring failed in many countries, you can't simply introduce free elections over night and expect to have a functioning democracy.

While US have good rule of law and freedom of speech, some other components are certainly missing or compromised. The two-party system is not going to change under the generally first-past-the-post voting system since people will vote tactically. As of education it is severely undermined by worsening underfunded public education, high quality education increasing in prices, and certain talking heads campaining against any form of systematic education.

I can see democracy backslipping from a mile away and the election in 2016 certainly shows it.

[windsmurf]

The problem is with those who hire illegal immigrants.

Here is a burden of proof problem: how are you sure whoever you are going to hire is not an illegal immigrant, in face of all the privacy laws and potential forgery? Is there a central registration where employers can search for an applicant and find out his/her immigration status?

An employer should be safe from prosecution if they did their due diligence in good faith.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/legal-pitfalls-hiring-undocumented-immigrants.html

What If You Didn’t Know Your Employee’s Papers Were No Good?
Employers are required to confirm the work authorization of every new hire at the time of hire, using Form I-9 for the purpose. You are not, however, expected to be an expert on the documents that establish work authorization.

In fact, an employer can be penalized for discrimination for checking documents too zealously or insisting on a particular document, such as a green card. The way the rules put it, you should accept documents from the I-9 lists that “reasonably appear on their face to be genuine and to relate to the person presenting them.”

[technix]

Speaking of lobbying, the biggest issue in our government is lobbying, which is nothing more than legalized bribery.  It really needs to be stopped, but neither D nor R want to give up the infusion of $.   https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/index.php

You may want to look up an organization called Justice Democrats, who are politicians that sternly refuses any money from lobbying or PAC's backed by megacorporations. I am not aware of any Republican equivalent of this organization.

[windsmurf]

Speaking of lobbying, the biggest issue in our government is lobbying, which is nothing more than legalized bribery.  It really needs to be stopped, but neither D nor R want to give up the infusion of $.   https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/index.php

You may want to look up an organization called Justice Democrats, who are politicians that sternly refuses any money from lobbying or PAC's backed by megacorporations. I am not aware of any Republican equivalent of this organization.

Yes I've contributed to Ro Khanna, and I watch TYT fairly frequently 

[technix]

Yes I've contributed to Ro Khanna, and I watch TYT fairly frequently 

I actually stopped watching TYT contents - while it is factually sound it is a bit too biased towards the left. While I am a left-winger I want to try understand why right-winger do certain things.

[windsmurf]

I actually stopped watching TYT contents - while it is factually sound it is a bit too biased towards the left. While I am a left-winger I want to try understand why right-winger do certain things.

Yeah they sometimes go on a tirade which I dislike, especially Ana. 
One show I watch religiously is Rachel Maddow.  Lots of factual info and usually good interviews.
I do read Reason.com and wsj.com for some balance. 

[technix]

I don't think that solves the problems of productivity and wages.  One of the reasons that the US is at something of a disadvantage in the world market is our standard of living.  The other is wages although that is related.  The median electronics engineer in Silicon Valley earns $125k and the median in Shanghai is $20k.  We need to be 6 times as productive to complete if the playing field is completely level.  That's tough to do!  Not impossible, but tough!

Now why is Americans so wasteful though? Life in Shanghai has just as high a standard as in New York, yet I can get away with a lower wage, a higher cost of living and still build up some savings, meanwhile an average American have to live almost always in debt.

Yeah they sometimes go on a tirade which I dislike, especially Ana. 
One show I watch religiously is Rachel Maddow.  Lots of factual info and usually good interviews.
I do read Reason.com and wsj.com for some balance. 

Too bad there is less and less right-wing news media that is still factually uptight. Even the major one Fox is becoming more and more like a propaganda machine than a news media.

[maginnovision]

I actually stopped watching TYT contents - while it is factually sound it is a bit too biased towards the left. While I am a left-winger I want to try understand why right-winger do certain things.

Yeah they sometimes go on a tirade which I dislike, especially Ana. 
One show I watch religiously is Rachel Maddow.  Lots of factual info and usually good interviews.
I do read Reason.com and wsj.com for some balance.

Is she still telling you about Russia? It's good that someone still watches her though. TYT are horribly biased and backtrack anytime they catch any flak(not apologize, don't admit wrong-doing, just backtrack or pretend it never happened). As for Justice Democrats... Saikat Chakrabarti is literally the guy he's supposed to not be.

I love the commercial fireworks displays.  Many times the best place to see the display is on the water, either in the Delta (a long way east of San Francisco) or in the Alameda estuary (just across SF Bay from San Francisco).  Another choice spot was the top of any building near Marriot's Great America (theme park) in Santa Clara.  Disneyland has a show every night during the summer and on weekends during the winter.  This is a really big show!

My first encounters were at the beaches of San Diego.  They would always have a huge program.  Lots of Navy retirees around San Diego.

I don't like the residential stuff and I have considered getting a prescription for a sedative for my dogs.  Fireworks are really hard on them.

I've always gone to my grandpa house for the 4th. He lives on a hill across from the Rose Bowl and they have a pretty good show every year. Since I've had kids I hate fireworks though, at least once I get home. They don't seem to stop for weeks.

[technix]

Is she still telling you about Russia? It's good that someone still watches her though. TYT are horribly biased and backtrack anytime they catch any flak(not apologize, don't admit wrong-doing, just backtrack or pretend it never happened).

To be honest I wish the US would get to the bottom of the Russian interference problem. There are Russian interference in both 2016 US presidential elections and Brexit referendum, who knows what Putin can do with the less-than-transparent internal selection process of China and DAMN we neighbor Russia.

As for Justice Democrats... Saikat Chakrabarti is literally the guy he's supposed to not be.

Every organization have one black sheep or two. I am referring to folks like AOC, Rashida Tlaib, Ayanna Pressley and maybe Ro Khanna here though.

I've always gone to my grandpa house for the 4th. He lives on a hill across from the Rose Bowl and they have a pretty good show every year. Since I've had kids I hate fireworks though, at least once I get home. They don't seem to stop for weeks.

Ooh since 2016 or so Shanghai has a city-wide fireworks ban in effect - no fireworks allowed inside the ring road S20 and discouraged outside the ring road.

[soldar]

You do not know what real fireworks are until you have been to a "mascleta" in Valencia. You can feel the buildings shake. Unless you have been bombarded in a war zone you have not experienced anything like it.

A video cannot transmit the power of the explosions but here goes:

[rstofer]

The problem is with those who hire illegal immigrants.

Here is a burden of proof problem: how are you sure whoever you are going to hire is not an illegal immigrant, in face of all the privacy laws and potential forgery? Is there a central registration where employers can search for an applicant and find out his/her immigration status?

It is not mandated (yet) but, yes, there is a system:  eVerify

https://www.e-verify.gov/

At the moment it is voluntary but if an employer uses it, they are off the hook for employing illegal immigrants.  Should they choose to not use it, they can be prosecuted if they are found to be employing illegal immigrants.

For some reason, Congress is unwilling to require eVerify in other than Federal contracts.

[rstofer]

Why do you say that?

It's essentially apartheid.

I don't see it that way.  Where apartheid exists, both parties are legal residents or citizens of the country.  In the situation being discussed, the worker is not a legal resident or citizen of the host country.  They're just a temporary worker with a particular skillset.

When I worked under a Green Card in Singapore, there was no expectation that I would learn Mandarin or apply for Permanent Residency.  I came to the country, did my work and went home.  I was just a worker with a particular skillset and it was never intended by either party that I would remain in the country.  I was fine with that. 

The penalties for overstaying my visa were severe.  Changi Prison is not a place I wanted to visit.

[rstofer]

To be honest I wish the US would get to the bottom of the Russian interference problem. There are Russian interference in both 2016 US presidential elections and Brexit referendum, who knows what Putin can do with the less-than-transparent internal selection process of China and DAMN we neighbor Russia.

It is my understanding that Russia's interference was accomplished by starting fake news stories on the various social media sites.  Low information voters may indeed believe everything they read on Twitter or Facebook.  I subscribe to neither.

The issue is whether it made a difference and it obviously did because the 'anointed one' didn't get elected.  You can see why there must have been massive intrusion because no way in the world all those red states would have voted red if it weren't for the Russkies and their propaganda machine.

It's not clear to me how to separate the propaganda on social media sites from the propaganda on mainstream media.

Everybody needs a boogeyman!  Especially when the 'anointed one' didn't win.  She was a 'slam dunk', you know!

Trump won on a platform of putting people back to work, reducing taxes, controlling immigration and squaring up trading.  Two out of 4 isn't bad and he's making headway on trade.  Immigration control isn't going to happen.

[SkyMaster]

IBTL 

 

[technix]

It is my understanding that Russia's interference was accomplished by starting fake news stories on the various social media sites.  Low information voters may indeed believe everything they read on Twitter or Facebook.  I subscribe to neither.

In China the effective voter base is much smaller. Most of the 1.4B people don't really have an effective vote, there are about 2.3k people that may have a meaningful vote at national level, and the actual decision is made likely by a group of 17 or so. You need mass media when targeting 300M people, but you don't need that when targeting 20. That is why I say I kind of wish US went to the bottom to that, as that method scaled down can be in effect.

Trump won on a platform of putting people back to work, reducing taxes, controlling immigration and squaring up trading.  Two out of 4 isn't bad and he's making headway on trade.  Immigration control isn't going to happen.

Putting people to work: seems working but can be questionable in some places. Reducing taxes: uber-rich only, middle class and lower actually saw a tax increase if you crunch through the numbers. Controlling immigration: what a spectacular disaster it is, earning ire even from EU. Squaring up trade: I have my doubts how much Trumpism the rest of the world can take.

[Mr. Scram]

It may pay to take a look at regimes which "put people to work" historically and how that developed short and long term. Many enjoyed at least a temporary popularity because people saw things improve on their end.

[rstofer]

It is my understanding that Russia's interference was accomplished by starting fake news stories on the various social media sites.  Low information voters may indeed believe everything they read on Twitter or Facebook.  I subscribe to neither.

In China the effective voter base is much smaller. Most of the 1.4B people don't really have an effective vote, there are about 2.3k people that may have a meaningful vote at national level, and the actual decision is made likely by a group of 17 or so. You need mass media when targeting 300M people, but you don't need that when targeting 20. That is why I say I kind of wish US went to the bottom to that, as that method scaled down can be in effect.

In Singapore, voting is mandatory and failing to do so results in a monetary fine and suspension of voting rights for some period of time.  Reinstatement is not automatic, there's a bit of 'mea culpa' involved.  They're serious about voting!  Why?  Because it promotes stability in the government because people tend to vote for the one they know - the incumbent.  Nevertheless, it's a good clean system.  Did I mention how much I admire Singapore?

If you take the position to believe nothing you hear (or read in any media, social of mainstream) and only half of what you see, you won't be far off.  Then there is the old TV serious 'House'.  One thing that Dr. House kept saying:  "Everybody lies!".  To which I add "with no exceptions!".

Back to trade:  The US needs to get its accounts more balanced.  We can't keep exporting money forever.  And we need to beef up those industries that are important to national defense.  Steel, aluminum, chips and such are all critical.  We don't need to be competitive, tariffs or government contracts will fix that, but we do need to be self-sufficient.  At least in terms of defense materials.  We simply can't be dependent on other countries for our own defense.

[magic]

For some reason, Congress is unwilling to require eVerify in other than Federal contracts.

You mean, you are surprised it's not mandatory on every hire in the private sector? Why would you want to be tracked like cattle by the gov?
OTOH, I grew up thinking that America is a country of law and one wouldn't be able to stay there illegally for long. I was shocked to learn the truth a few years ago and I'm still not sure how the whole fiasco was even allowed to happen and who thought it could possibly be a good idea.

earning ire even from EU

Even from the EU? EU is the most leftist institution in the world other than a few of its member states

[vk6zgo]

It is my understanding that Russia's interference was accomplished by starting fake news stories on the various social media sites.  Low information voters may indeed believe everything they read on Twitter or Facebook.  I subscribe to neither.

In China the effective voter base is much smaller. Most of the 1.4B people don't really have an effective vote, there are about 2.3k people that may have a meaningful vote at national level, and the actual decision is made likely by a group of 17 or so. You need mass media when targeting 300M people, but you don't need that when targeting 20. That is why I say I kind of wish US went to the bottom to that, as that method scaled down can be in effect.

In Singapore, voting is mandatory and failing to do so results in a monetary fine and suspension of voting rights for some period of time.  Reinstatement is not automatic, there's a bit of 'mea culpa' involved.  They're serious about voting!  Why?  Because it promotes stability in the government because people tend to vote for the one they know - the incumbent.  Nevertheless, it's a good clean system.  Did I mention how much I admire Singapore?

If you take the position to believe nothing you hear (or read in any media, social of mainstream) and only half of what you see, you won't be far off.  Then there is the old TV serious 'House'.  One thing that Dr. House kept saying:  "Everybody lies!".  To which I add "with no exceptions!".

Back to trade:  The US needs to get its accounts more balanced.  We can't keep exporting money forever.  And we need to beef up those industries that are important to national defense.  Steel, aluminum, chips and such are all critical.  We don't need to be competitive, tariffs or government contracts will fix that, but we do need to be self-sufficient.  At least in terms of defense materials.  We simply can't be dependent on other countries for our own defense.

Voting is compulsory in Australia, too, but the fines are quite small, & your voting rights aren't suspended.

I do not share your admiration of Singapore, probably due to the number of "Captains of Industry" from this country which visit that country, are given the "conducted tour" & come back to Oz, bleating about how we ought to do the things they do, ignoring the radical differences between a tiny island "City State" & a Nation encompassing a whole continent, with a Federal system of Government.

[Marco]

I don't see it that way.  Where apartheid exists, both parties are legal residents or citizens of the country.  In the situation being discussed, the worker is not a legal resident or citizen of the host country.  They're just a temporary worker with a particular skillset.

If you spend half the year inside a country for decades on end I don't think temporary quite covers what you are.

Let Mexico properly leverage its pool of low wage workers, without stealing them for yourself for as long as is convenient and using them up in physical labour with none of the old age benefits you give to your citizens, or let them immigrate.

[james_s]

Why should Trump care? Trump represents the basket of deplorable, not the elites.

Those international elite business people got benefits from setting up shops IN China, not shipping TO China.

Trump's blue collar supporters only care about their OWN jobs, not how much money the capitalists in this country make abroad.

Ignoring the politics, Trump is a textbook narcissist, a sociopath and a pathological liar, these traits are not even up for debate, they are blatantly obvious facts. He says whatever he thinks people want to hear, one does not have to dig hard to find examples of him flat out making stuff up on the spot, or saying completely contradictory things on two different occasions. Even when I agree with something he does I find it embarrassing that someone so crude, crass and self serving has a position as the spokesman for my entire nation. From my perspective somewhere near the center, it seems that people who like him believe in him the same way some believe in a religious deity. To them he can do no wrong and any opposing politician can do no right. When an obvious fault or lie is brought up they will engage in mental gymnastics to justify the behavior or deflect, in ways that only a hardcore conspiracy theorist can compete. Some are quick to jump to the conclusion that all of his supporters are a bunch of racist redneck boobs but personally I tend to view them as victims of a scam. They fell for his con hook line and sinker.

Trump is a fraud, he's a con man, a fake. He's nowhere near as wealthy as he claims, if he were then he would be flaunting it and happy to share his tax returns. Especially since he demanded Obama release his, then promised he would release his own if elected, but then look at the extremes he has taken to keep them under wraps. What is he so keen to hide? There is no other reason than they will show the world that he is a fake. Yes he has an impressive array of assets, but assets are not wealth. My neighborhood is full of people in fancy houses driving fancy cars who are mortgaged to the hilt living far beyond their means and Trump is the same sort on a different scale., I'd bet on it. Now if he does decide to release his tax records like he promised to do and it proves otherwise then I'll change my tune, but so far I'm still waiting.



Now regarding tariffs, in a way I think they are a good idea although not without risks. I don't have any problem at all with China, they are simply producing the goods we ask for and being competitive in price. The problem is that we've become addicted to cheap toys here. Goods are absolutely absurdly cheap, and because everything is so much cheaper people here can't make a living selling or servicing these goods. All this non-essential stuff is so cheap that it makes essential things like land, housing, food and stuff that cannot be outsourced to cheaper places seem much more expensive in comparison. It's not sustainable, we are going to have to get used to paying a lot more for stuff and having a lot less of it, the way it was up into the 90s.

[apis]

Even from the EU? EU is the most leftist institution in the world other than a few of its member states

That's a joke right?

There's been a right-wing majority in the EU parliament and the council as long as I can remember and it's usually conservative christian democrats that pull the strings, like Angela Merkel from the conservative CDU (Christian Democratic Union) or the President of the European Commission; Jean-Claude Junker from the conservative CSV (Christian Social People's Party) or the President of the European Council; your countryman Donald Tusk from the liberal/conservative PO (Platforma Obywatelska).

[Marco]

Right wing mostly refers to nationalists nowadays, not neoliberals. By extension, left wing are internationalist ... which the EU obviously are going to be dominated by.

[apis]

Right wing mostly refers to nationalists nowadays, not neoliberals.

No it doesn't. Conservatives are still right-wing, and I'm not sure even Tusk can be called neoliberal (and neolibs are right wing too). The right wing populists are usually called far right. Calling EU (and conservatives) leftist is just plain objectively untrue.