General > General Technical Chat

I have the feeling that the whole trade war starts from a pile of nonsense.

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maginnovision:

--- Quote from: blueskull on May 27, 2019, 05:19:11 am ---
--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on May 27, 2019, 05:09:43 am ---<bullshit snipped to keep sanity>

--- End quote ---

I would quit discussion with you, because I've already expressed whatever I needed to express, and I've already earned enough Chinese social credit points for that.

--- End quote ---

This might be off topic, but how DOES the social credit work. I've read a couple articles but I have no idea what's true or if any of it is complete.

technix:

--- Quote from: maginnovision on May 27, 2019, 05:27:05 am ---This might be off topic, but how DOES the social credit work. I've read a couple articles but I have no idea what's true or if any of it is complete.

--- End quote ---
Basically a state-run version of Equifax under People's Back of China. There are some private sector collaborators like Alibaba but they are under close monitoring.

windsmurf:

--- Quote from: technix on May 27, 2019, 05:30:35 am ---
--- Quote from: maginnovision on May 27, 2019, 05:27:05 am ---This might be off topic, but how DOES the social credit work. I've read a couple articles but I have no idea what's true or if any of it is complete.

--- End quote ---
Basically a state-run version of Equifax under People's Back of China. There are some private sector collaborators like Alibaba but they are under close monitoring.

--- End quote ---

Do sellers run people's social credit score when customers want to purchase a car, for example?  Who adds data to it, and who gets to see it?  Can one appeal something in their social score?

kaz911:


I do think that China needs a slap on the wrist. There are so many things going on from China government that are, at least to soft westerners, very morally corrupt (according to the Western moral compass)

1. Cheap huge loans to countries for infrastructure and prestige projects in 2nd/3rd world countries. Very organised by China - give loans that China knows the receiving country cant pay back ever - secured against the country’s mining rights etc. Build it all with Chinese workers - many of whom are then left behind when construction is done. Some African countries now have a quite large “left over” population of Chinese construction workers that China did not want back.  So in effect China rules a lot of countries by “Debt Default”

2. Stealing of Western IP - still happens all the time. Very organised. How many arrests have there been just this year? How many western company representatives have been arrested in China for industrial spying? So if China does all the base research themselves how come there are so many industrial spies caught (which is probably a minuscule amount compared to what goes through undetected) - so a big help here would be if China would respect and sign up for Worldwide IP protection regulations.

3. Chinese education policy - Chinese government rewards citizens for going abroad, get (highly) educated and work. But citizens have to return to China when requested. Returning to China and setting up a business then gets a good bucket of Chinese Government funds for the western educated Chinese citizen.  It is very very organised - and Citizens gets a choice of educations they can do to get the financial support. It is very smart way of getting top education for your citizens and transfer knowledge to China.

It is much more detailed than what I write but I have plenty of local friends from China who when drunk :) talks a lot.... Most of them actually like their lives in the UK and are worried about the day they will get “recalled” and have to uproot their current life. But they signed up for it - so they have no choice.

The 3 items mention are just examples of how planned and smart the Chinese government is. The plans are clearly long term (many decades - not years)

But if the west do not realize or start reacting to it - then most of the current “1st world” western world will be 3rd world within 20-40 years.
 
——-

And regarding big Chinese Telco supplier  - they are as crooked as they come. Normal modus operandi for telco offerings is the big Western companies quote - said Chinese Telco then bribes someone for a copy of the tenders - and post an offer that is exactly 50% less than the current lowest provider.  They would even sell HP Telco switches for 50% of what price HP could offer direct. HP’s answer was there was they thought there wore subsidies from somewhere.

And Said Telco actively copy western telco devices - so good copies that you in some cases can run same firmware on either device (I have setup a few MVNO’s and the amount of pressure Chinese Telco puts on you to get access to see “western providers” solutions are incredible) - so in the last MVNO I setup we terminated all contact with the said telco supplier - despite being a lot cheaper.

—-

I’m not taking any sides on the argument - i’m a realist. China is smart and thinks further ahead than most western countries are currently capable of. And that capacity for planning needs respect - But the western world needs to start to take action to survive.

So we can either adopt the Chinese moral compass or try to level the playing field in some other way. Adopting a different moral compass is not easy.

And right now Trump is trying to level the playing field in one area. But as any business person would do - you if you opposition is very far to the right - your demands should be equally far to the left. And then one can hope that negations will end up with a trade deal somewhere in the middle.

Europe is currently just to soft and idealistic to realise what is going on. 

soldar:
That western countries would dictate any moral issues is just plain laughable.  It is merely propaganda for home use but has no weight whatsoever anywhere else. The western powers who raped and looted half the world talking about morality? Don't make me laugh!

America is in no position to preach to China about anything. Any American claims about wanting what is best for the Chinese people ring very hollow.  Similarly to the Anglo-American intervention in Iran/Iraq/Afghanistan, their interventions in China have left a bad aftertaste there and I can understand why.

For a couple centuries western powers invaded China and imposed their unequal treaties. Travel in China and you will find memorial markers "here on such date British troops fired and killed X many Chinese".

Mark Twain protested against the Americans invading and occupying China and the Philippines.

When WWII happened China was mired in a long running civil war but both sides united to fight the Japanese.  The Communists were the stronger side but America was helping the Kuomingtang and did not want the Japanese surrendering to the Communists so they stalled while they could help the Kuomingtang troops take over parts that were in possession of the Communists.

After the Japanese were defeated and expelled the civil war continued with America on the Kuomingtang's side. The Kuomingtang was defeated in the mainland and retreated to Taiwan with all the loot they could take.

American intervention in China prolongued the civil war.

The "Taiwan problem" is entirely of American creation. If it were not for America Taiwan today would be a province of China.

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