General > General Technical Chat
I have the feeling that the whole trade war starts from a pile of nonsense.
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apis:

--- Quote from: soldar on May 27, 2019, 01:36:31 pm ---
--- Quote from: apis on May 27, 2019, 11:48:54 am --- "The west" is a not a good term. It's like saying "the east" when talking about China. Similarly, talking about Europe is like talking about America, Asia or Africa, it's huge places composed of many very different countries.

--- End quote ---
I disagree. It is a very useful term when discussing European cultures (and their descendants) with respect to China. The fact that they are different in some ways is not relevant when we are discussing precisely the aspects they share.

--- End quote ---
It's an oversimplification. It's like clumping together China, Mongolia, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Laos and so on. Or why not the Chinese Communist Party and the Nationalist Party of China. Of "western" countries it's only the US that want conflict with Iran. Similarly most western countries were against the Irak war (with some notable exceptions), and it has caused nothing but problems for Europe. Germany started WW2 but not exactly together with "the west" against China, that would be a bisarre interpretation, it was Germany, Italy and Japan against the rest of the world. As everyone knows the US joined the war when they were attacked by the Japanese. Trump is starting trade wars with everyone; Canada, Mexico, the EU, and now China. It's not "the west" that is starting a trade war with "the east". It's Trump against the World.

The notion you should split Eurasia into Europe and Asia is also silly, it's basically a christian idea that divides the continent between christians and non-christians but there have always been a mix of culture and trade across the continent. Remember the silk road? Similarly, northern Africa is culturally and historically closer to Europe than Africa south of the Sahara (because the Sahara is a much bigger obstacle than the Mediterranean), but today we have this mental division because of the difference of religion.

We even learn Chinese in school these days (as third language after Swedish and English). 你好,我来自瑞典. ^-^
soldar:
I have quite an interest in history and have read quite a bit about history of China and I was just reading something and it struck me that I had never really known something which I now have read about and find interesting.

When the communists took over the Kuomingtang retreated to the islands of Hainan and Taiwan. But the island of Hainan was taken by the communists a few months later in 1950.

I have been to Hainan a couple of times and for me it is like the Florida of China but I had never given any thought as to how it had been taken by the communists during (after) the war.  And why the communists chose to fight for Hainan but not for Taiwan. Probably the Kuomingtang (and America) felt they could not defend Hainan but could better defend Taiwan.

I wonder if the communists could have taken Taiwan if they had set themselves to it.

Hainan, for those who are too young to remember, was where an American spy plane collided with a Chinese plane and was forced to land in the capital, Haikou where the Americans were forced to eat Chinese food for several days until the were finally freed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident

Correction. Even though my thoughts were correct I got my names mixed up. The capital, Haikou, in in the north of the island. I was thinking of Sanya in the south. The American airplane landed in Lingshui military air base, near Sanya.

Sorry for the digression but I have fond memories of Hainan.
magic:

--- Quote from: technix on May 26, 2019, 08:47:58 pm ---Actually a better way to reduce consumption is to increase the interest rate on savings, so people will pull money out of leisure purchase and save up instead, and the increase to loan interests will reduce the willingness of people to go into debt for leisure items. US have some of the world's lowest savings interest rate and you need to fix that.

--- End quote ---
Maybe they have low interest rates but it seems to me like it's just kicking the can down the road: people save in order to buy something, and now they will have more money to spend. So either inflation or market growth and more consumption. Perhaps another war to force some African country to accept the excess USD for their oil ;)
Basically, it looks like you say there is a problem because US produces too much USD and you want to solve it by producing more USD.


--- Quote from: soldar on May 26, 2019, 08:53:27 pm ---European nations are not happy at all about this. Because America is again messing in this part of the world and it will be Europe who will pay a high price.

--- End quote ---
If you are speaking of migration, speak for yourself. Germany says they need a quarter million immigrants per year for half of this century to meet their economic growth targets.
I guess France and UK ought to be happy too. In fact, it was France that rushed to overthrow Muammar Gaddafi before NATO and USA, even though he threatened that his regime is the last thing preventing massive undocumented migration from Africa to Europe. Clearly that didn't stop them.


--- Quote from: kaz911 on May 27, 2019, 09:13:04 am ---The 3 items mention are just examples of how planned and smart the Chinese government is. The plans are clearly long term (many decades - not years)

I’m not taking any sides on the argument - i’m a realist. China is smart and thinks further ahead than most western countries are currently capable of. And that capacity for planning needs respect - But the western world needs to start to take action to survive.

--- End quote ---
Western democracy is completely retarded, voters have no clue what's going on in the world and get distracted by bullshit nonissues, politicians only look forward to the next election and the only agents with any long term strategy are companies, think tanks, lobbying groups, millionaires and secret services, all of which obviously operate in confidentiality and don't coordinate with each other.


--- Quote from: soldar on May 27, 2019, 09:33:18 am ---That western countries would dictate any moral issues is just plain laughable.
--- End quote ---
That Western countries would build dependence on communist regimes is laughable.


--- Quote from: soldar on May 27, 2019, 09:33:18 am ---When WWII happened China was mired in a long running civil war but both sides united to fight the Japanese.  The Communists were the stronger side but America was helping the Kuomingtang and did not want the Japanese surrendering to the Communists so they stalled while they could help the Kuomingtang troops take over parts that were in possession of the Communists.

After the Japanese were defeated and expelled the civil war continued with America on the Kuomingtang's side. The Kuomingtang was defeated in the mainland and retreated to Taiwan with all the loot they could take.

American intervention in China prolongued the civil war.

The "Taiwan problem" is entirely of American creation. If it were not for America Taiwan today would be a province of China.

--- End quote ---
They only thing they did wrong was losing this war.
And of course communists too were supported by various shady interests from the Soviet Union and US.
Communism in China killed more people in time of peace than the civil war and world war 2 combined. Probably set their industry back a few decades too because why not. Same happened in Eastern Europe, Cambodia and likely everywhere communism was attempted. Communists should be nuked from the orbit wherever they appear.
I don't think there is a "Taiwan problem". Taiwan seem to be happy with their independence and more developed than mainland China.


--- Quote from: technix on May 27, 2019, 10:54:00 am ---It is not whether the west that can make long term plans, it is whether the west can stick to a plan after it is made across political shifts. Take Obamacare for an example, the second Republicans took power they start to dismantle it. With this kind of political aggression in place, why bother with long term plans when they ain't gonna stick after an election?

--- End quote ---
This is democracy in action.
As is well known, democracy is a system where two men and one woman strangled on a desert island can hold a legally binding vote over legalization of rape.
Or a system where whoever gets 60% seats in the parliament enjoys total power for four years and pushes reforms rejected by 40% of society not expecting the balance to flip later.
Democrats in America got so used to success that under Obama they weren't even trying to maintain any consensus. They were so confident that they themselves reduced the vote threshold for Supreme Court confirmations so that it doesn't hold their progress back, of course we know the outcome.
America is actually a highly entertaining country if you live somewhere where their politics don't have that much influence on your land.
You guys should be striving for independence from US and thank Trump for warning you.
And live under no illusion that the EU is any different. The leadership is exactly equally "democratic" and arrogant. The EU is heading for a disaster.
apis:

--- Quote from: magic on May 27, 2019, 03:35:06 pm ---This is democracy in action.
As is well known, democracy is a system where two men and one woman strangled on a desert island can hold a legally binding vote over legalization of rape.
--- End quote ---
Which is still better than one man deciding to legalise rape all by himself. As is well known, democ­ra­cy is the worst form of Gov­ern­ment except for all those oth­er forms that have been tried from time to time.

Poland just haven't had democracy for very long. If you couldn't live in Poland, which country of your neighbours would you prefer to live in, Belarus or Germany? Or maybe Saudi Arabia where their lovely "strong man" leader sends his team of hitmen to murder people he dislike and mail him their body-parts in separate packages?
BravoV:
CNN just posted a "opinionated" column by a professor from Columbia University, which I think reflect the true current situation.  :-+

-> China is not the source of our economic problems -- corporate greed is
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