Author Topic: I have the feeling that the whole trade war starts from a pile of nonsense.  (Read 19968 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Echo88

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 572
  • Country: de
I hope this thread gets closed due to political stuff and blueskull leaves as fast as possible to China, so he can witness the evil US dictator from the greener side of the fence, where he continues to say "I dont need free speech, because i have nothing to say.".
 
The following users thanked this post: SkyMaster

Offline blueskull

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 12433
  • Country: cn
  • Power Electronics Guy
I hope this thread gets closed due to political stuff and blueskull leaves as fast as possible to China

Like me or not, I will be hanging around for quite a while. To my knowledge, this forum is not blocked by GFW.

So you will have to coexist with me here, regardless you like me or not. Or you can vote on your feet.

I bet you also don't want Merkel to buy oil from Putin. Watch out, because Putin might be watching on you, with advanced pattern recognition technology from China.
 
The following users thanked this post: Ysjoelfir

Offline windsmurf

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 643
  • Country: us
...As to advancing the country?  Well, just about every new invention on the planet starts in the US...

I'm no fan of China, especially its current human rights record.   But I also dislike misinformation. So for the record...
https://www.quora.com/What-country-has-contributed-the-most-inventions
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 07:50:26 am by windsmurf »
 

Offline soldar

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2608
  • Country: es
I hope this thread gets closed due to political stuff and blueskull leaves as fast as possible to China, so he can witness the evil US dictator from the greener side of the fence, where he continues to say "I dont need free speech, because i have nothing to say.".

There is no need for personal attacks. You can make your point or disagree with the points others have made without needing to be rude to others here. Let's try to keep it civil. Please.
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 
The following users thanked this post: Ysjoelfir

Offline 2N3055

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2113
  • Country: hr
I hope this thread gets closed due to political stuff and blueskull leaves as fast as possible to China, so he can witness the evil US dictator from the greener side of the fence, where he continues to say "I dont need free speech, because i have nothing to say.".

Free speech doesn't matter when you are brainwashed to know only one truth.
USA is slipping into anti-democracy at breakneck speed, and while you might be able to say anything, you can't change anything. So end result is same as China..
Except Chinese realize they can't change the system so they don't even bother. In USA people naively think their (public) opinion shapes country's destiny. It does not, in many ways less than in China.

Also USA put dozens of people on the Moon 50 years ago.  Except they didn't.
USA paid for it but it was German and other scientists that spearheaded  the project. As well as atomic bomb. Aside Feynman, most of non immigrants on the project were management, military, security, etc.  It was literally carried on the shoulders of scientist that fled to USA from Nazis. As is most of the science in USA since, carried by immigrants, and Americans are mostly management. Not all and always, of course, but statistically significantly so.

People from USA are always confusing what is made by USA and what is owned by USA.
In normal circumstances, it is working fine. You let rest of the world create people that excel at science through first dozen of years of education, and then you pick smartest and brightest and offer them better pay and promise of bright future to leave their homes and come to USA.
Than you integrate them in academia and finish their education by virtue of advanced projects and money USA has and their poor countries didn't.
And that worked well for very long time.

Americans wants to be lawyers and stock traders, or reality show celebrities.. They don't like hard work learning advanced math if they are going to be paid less than people in sales and marketing. It's capitalism, see, it just bad business. Goal is to maximise profit. STEM is not it.

At his moment in USA, about 80% of graduate students in STEM related studies are not US citizens...
And USA is making it clear that they are not welcome to stay..

I'm not saying that they are not happy with how much are they paid.
I'm saying that many of them are starting to feel like those scientist that fled Europe in the 1930-es......

And then, on top of that, is that, back home, things got better, much better. So they go home, instead of staying where they are not welcome.

Will America collapse because of that? No. But it will seriously hamper its ability to stay competitive in this game.
And problem is that today USA is not on a forefront of many things.
Problem is that you cannot live on old fame. 50 years ago NASA put a man on the moon. Today, they would have problem doing what Chinese did.
USA capabilities degraded, and China made up for a technology gap. So did many other players.
It is not USA/USSR game anymore. There is China and India. Europe recovered from WWII and is not needing USA to meddle in their affairs.
Even NATO is questionable.
Is it a great alliance of free world to protect Europe from Red Menace, or is it an instrument of blackmail that Orange Menace is using to force his former partners to do his bidding, and blackmail them to buy USA weapons to fill somebody's pockets.?

So yeah, it's not black and white, or easy.

That is why globalization happened.

We need each other. We need for Russian Federation to play nice with Europe. We don't want WW3. We need for USA to obey international laws and not to bully other nations because they will nuke them otherwise. Because, if USA behaves that way, what is next? SEALs dressed as Mexican army will attack USA border post and than they invade Poland ?
 
The following users thanked this post: blueskull, technix, Ysjoelfir, JPortici, JxR

Offline soldar

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2608
  • Country: es
I am alarmed by the rise of nationalisms everywhere. Have we not learned anything from history?

Ignorant mobs are easily excited against imaginary enemies.  It is quite easy to inflame passions against internal minorities or against external imaginary threats. At first everything seems to go fine and leaders bask in glory. Then, predictably, things start turning south.

When I was a kid America was the voice of reason preaching stability while communist countries were preaching all the crazy things and trying to upset the apple cart. I never imagined I would see the day when China would be the balanced voice of reason and stability while America has taken leave of her senses and is the one rocking the boat and creating instability.

America lead the world not so much with military strength but with a moral standing which lead most free countries to side with her. Now that is gone and it is pretty much America alone facing the world. How anyone can think America can prevail is beyond me. If things continue down this path things cannot end well.

We would do well to follow policies of cooperation rather than confrontation.
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 
The following users thanked this post: Bassman59, thm_w, Vgkid, blueskull, technix, 2N3055, Jacon, windsmurf, JxR

Offline windsmurf

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 643
  • Country: us
...Ignorant mobs are easily excited against imaginary enemies.  It is quite easy to inflame passions against internal minorities or against external imaginary threats....

Soon dictionaries will just put up a picture of Trump for the word "Demagogue", and everyone will understand the meaning of the word.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/demagogue

Next up - war with Iran... a calculated move to boost up his approval ratings.  Starting a war always improve Presidential approval ratings, and he's counting on it.
 

Online paulca

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1983
  • Country: gb
"What could possibly go wrong?"
Current Open Projects:  3 Channel Audio mixer with DAC, BT, pre-amps and h/phone amp, WS281x LED controller Version 2 5V/5A w/Atmega328, FY6600 Power supply, 5A DC Load (Still!)
 

Offline orion242

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 742
  • Country: us
No mention of the forced technology transfers here which IMO are a bigger aspect than just the trade deficit.

America lead the world not so much with military strength but with a moral standing which lead most free countries to side with her. Now that is gone

Guess long as our interests align with what’s publicly thought as “moral”.  Not sure Saddam & his imaginary nuclear weapons, Muammar Gadhafi, or the handful of American citizens that had a hellfire dropped on them would agree.


« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 11:51:08 am by orion242 »
 

Offline technix

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3219
  • Country: cn
  • From Shanghai With Love
    • My Untitled Blog
No mention of the forced technology transfers here which IMO are a bigger aspect than just the trade deficit.
If you think technology transfer is too high a price tag for you, you could have just rejected the deal in the first place. It is pure capitalist bargaining, you took the deal without calming your heads first, and and you are just having buyer’s regret. Nobody is forcing you to take the deal in the first place.

There is a reason why there is no 250km/h rated bullet trains in China based on Siemens technology. Technology transfer have always been part of the deal when China Railways bought their trains, and Siemens rejected it when the first round of negotiations happened. You can reject the deal too if you don’t agree to the terms.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 12:11:36 pm by technix »
 

Offline orion242

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 742
  • Country: us
It is pure capitalist bargaining, you took the deal without calming your heads first, and and you are just having buyer’s regret.

Good point.  If these companies don't like it, go elsewhere or quit crying.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3314
  • Country: us
Persistent large trade deficits cannot persist.  Eventually the money runs out and something changes.  So what is being argued about is how that change occurs.

One approach has been indirectly mentioned already on this thread.  You do nothing, and the old empire dies, crashing into poverty.  Horrible for the crashing country, and not really pretty for the former big exporters.  Even if it isn't a dominant market the loss of sales hurts.  Tariffs are another approach.  The 1930s proved that they aren't infallible as a solution, but they have worked in other places and times.  Can make for a softer landing.

In any case it will require the US in general to get hungrier, willing to work harder.  Is 25% harder the right answer?  In spite of the millions of experts willing to speak on the subject, no one knows.

 

Offline rstofer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6547
  • Country: us
It is pure capitalist bargaining, you took the deal without calming your heads first, and and you are just having buyer’s regret.

Good point.  If these companies don't like it, go elsewhere or quit crying.

In effect, that's what we're doing.  If we raise the tariffs high enough, other players will enter the market.  The tariffs don't help the US as much as they create a more profitable environment for second tier players.  If products from China are priced higher, maybe similar products from Viet Nam become more attractive for buyer and manufacturer.

It's true that a high percentage of graduate students are here on a student visa.  Here's the problem I have with that:  Why should we spend taxpayer money, my money, to give foreign students access to PUBLIC universities in preference to our own citizens.  I paid for that university (not literally) and I expect my offspring to get preferential treatment.  That doesn't happen because my offspring pay a lower rate and the universities want more money.  In my view, we shouldn't admit any foreign students until all capable citizens have been accommodated.  As to PRIVATE institutions, well, they can do whatever they want, as long as they don't take federal money to do it.

I'm thinking here about the University of California system.  UC Berkeley, UCLA, or any of the other Cal State or UC campuses.  The taxpayers own those universities and their offspring should get preference.  Stanford and Cal-Tech can do what they want but they do receive a lot of federal funding so maybe there ought to be limits there as well.

So why is it that the US is a target for students?  It's clear from this thread that we are woefully inadequate and yet students keep coming.  Why don't they go to their own universities where their studies will be much more advanced?  I would think universities in the UK would be more attractive.  In a choice between UCLA and Oxford, I would pick Oxford every time.

Trump has tightened up on student visas and particularly the problem of overstaying the visa.  Undergraduate degree holders don't bring much to the dance but post-graduate students need a path to remain in the country.  There are at least 3 such paths but two of them are pretty well known:  The H1B Visa and the ever popular Green Card.  Heck, I had a Green Card when I worked in Singapore.  Stapled to the back of my passport!  Still have it...

There has been some tightening on H1B visas because the companies employing such workers were substantially underpaying them and dragging down wages for the natives.  There have been some prosecutions but not nearly enough.  But you can see why the natives don't want the H1Bs dragging wages down.

I don't know much about the Green Card process but it would seem to me that if the process is begun early enough, there should be a seamless transition.  Much of it depends on the employer doing their part and this is difficult considering that the student is probably not allowed to work on a Student Visa.  It's complicated...

Were it me, I would be heading to every university in the world and slurping up all the STEM post-grads I could find.

We are starting to talk about 'points based' immigration.  We assign a certain score for various attributes (education, age, skills, etc) and if a candidate passes the threshold, they are admitted.  Australia has done this for a very long time.  I looked at their score sheet one time back around '86.  Even with my MS degree, I couldn't make the cut.   So far, it's just talk.  And it's going nowhere as long as we have a flood of illegal immigrants coming over our southern border.

As to taking the deal:  Well, now we want to renegotiate the deal.  Things have changed and we don't like the old deal.  We want to make some changes.  Both sides need to give and take and there is no motivation on the part of the Chinese to give anything.  Why should they?  They can simply wait out the next 6 years and see what happens next.  The long game works for China.  The US messed up when they granted Most Favored Nation status back in the '90s.  We wouldn't be in this mess had we not done that.  Clinton...

Apparently we were able to renegotiate NAFTA to Trump's satisfaction.  A new deal has been signed by the parties but not approved by Congress.  It's dead in the water as a treaty until it is approved and that's not likely given the current state of Congress.
 

Offline rstofer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6547
  • Country: us
One approach has been indirectly mentioned already on this thread.  You do nothing, and the old empire dies, crashing into poverty.  Horrible for the crashing country, and not really pretty for the former big exporters.  Even if it isn't a dominant market the loss of sales hurts.  Tariffs are another approach.  The 1930s proved that they aren't infallible as a solution, but they have worked in other places and times.  Can make for a softer landing.

If China thinks the new dominant market is the EU, good luck.  Their economy is healthy as long as the US is healthy.  No country is an island and if we crash, as we did in 2008, we tend to take a lot of other countries along for the ride.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Recession_in_Europe

I read an article a couple of years ago where a small town in Finland was going bankrupt because they had invested in US Mortgage Backed Securities.  Somehow you don't imagine a quaint village in Finland being a victim of our housing crisis but there you have it.

As to scrapping NATO and letting the new and improved EU Army handle things, well, that works for me!  Of course you need to think of the new and improved EU Army as the newly reconstituted German Army but that's just a scary detail.

And how is it that the EU charges 10% tariff on US auto imports and we only charge 2.5% on German cars?  That doesn't seem fair as in Fair Trade.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/05/24/news/car-auto-tariffs-us-germany-japan-toyota-volkswagen/index.html

 

Online Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8105
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
If China thinks the new dominant market is the EU, good luck.  Their economy is healthy as long as the US is healthy.  No country is an island and if we crash, as we did in 2008, we tend to take a lot of other countries along for the ride.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Recession_in_Europe

I read an article a couple of years ago where a small town in Finland was going bankrupt because they had invested in US Mortgage Backed Securities.  Somehow you don't imagine a quaint village in Finland being a victim of our housing crisis but there you have it.

As to scrapping NATO and letting the new and improved EU Army handle things, well, that works for me!  Of course you need to think of the new and improved EU Army as the newly reconstituted German Army but that's just a scary detail.

And how is it that the EU charges 10% tariff on US auto imports and we only charge 2.5% on German cars?  That doesn't seem fair as in Fair Trade.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/05/24/news/car-auto-tariffs-us-germany-japan-toyota-volkswagen/index.html
The EU is China's largest trading partner. One could argue globalization means we all go down if one hurts badly. The US would suffer greatly if either the EU or China runs into serious issues as well, especially considering how much of the US is in Chinese hands.
 

Offline rstofer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6547
  • Country: us
The EU is China's largest trading partner. One could argue globalization means we all go down if one hurts badly. The US would suffer greatly if either the EU or China runs into serious issues as well, especially considering how much of the US is in Chinese hands.

We had a similar situation with Japan coming here and buying up all kinds of real estate including some premier golf courses.  They got their collective asses handed to them when things slumped.  You don't hear much about Japan any more.  Are they still in business?

And, yes, all the countries are tied together but there are two classes of countries and the effects can be different.  There are net buyers like the US and net sellers like everybody else.  When the net buyers can't buy, net sellers see their markets disappear.  Other net sellers can't help because, well, they are net sellers, not buyers.

Whether you believe in trickle up or trickle down, it's buyers that build the economy.  Consumer Confidence is a seriously important statistic and it is at record highs right now.  That may change if we get very many more days like today.

 

Offline soldar

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2608
  • Country: es
Exactly, the economies of countries are more intertwined than they have ever been and changes should be negotiated, agreed by all and implemented in cooperative ways.

NAFTA has been renegotiated
https://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/articles/26188/who-won-in-the-nafta-renegotiation-a-preliminary-assessment
and it seems it was good for all but Trump is not content with that, he does not want cooperation, he wants triumph and defeat for the other side and that is how he presents it. It is nonsense but his base buys it and that is dangerous. 

It is the same with China. He does not seek fair relations, he seeks to humiliate China. He cannot achieve that but whatever he gets he will present it that way and his base will eat it up whole.

Trump lives in an alternative reality where he is Superman.

China can afford to play a long game which Trump cannot. His time is very limited.

America would be better served by policies of stability and international cooperation. Instead Trump thrives in creating chaos and instability.
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 

Offline soldar

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2608
  • Country: es
And, yes, all the countries are tied together but there are two classes of countries and the effects can be different.  There are net buyers like the US and net sellers like everybody else.  When the net buyers can't buy, net sellers see their markets disappear.  Other net sellers can't help because, well, they are net sellers, not buyers.

It must be good to be able to make up your own reality and live in it.
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 
The following users thanked this post: thm_w

Offline 2N3055

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2113
  • Country: hr
@Rstofer
Whoa, so much wrong in single post.

If you raise tariffs enough, there will be 100 million people in USA that will barely survive, because they are already at the edge of poverty. But those that are well off don't care about that.. Let's play stupid games with China.

It is not high number of graduate students. It is 80% of STEM graduate students, meaning USA citizens are in minority. And no, it is not because they pay them so little. It is because their knowledge is such that those coming from USA school system cannot compete well with them.
And they come because school system in USA is not really good, up to graduate level. On graduate level, USA universities are excellent and have good integration with industry and do very advanced projects and have great budgets. So yeah at that education level, it is top notch.

Taxpayers don't own crap. Taxpayers pay a due (tax) for services rendered to them by state. Public services are rendered to public, valued by utility to public good. So if it serves public to let genius Chinese girl/boy study in USA because they will invent new processor, or reactor or whatever, and that will enhance public good of USA citizens, than yeah, they will give them seat instead of some USA born kid.
Sorry, it is how it works.
It isn't fair, but I thought Americans hate socialism. Which is what you are proposing, equality at all cost. You (and myself too) are living  in capitalism, meaning results at all cost.
We don't care for people, only results. If you are not good enough, your problem. No mercy.

Many moons ago I lived in USA for 4 years. On H1B. Met many nice people, made friends. Had great time. Good times.
But I was not underpaid. If anything, in my consulting agency, my recruiter constantly reminded me not to say anybody how much I make. Most of the time I made much more than people I worked for on projects. And I'm talking NYC... Yes, I was that good at what I was doing.

And no, you didn't need to go around the world recruiting students. They were coming to USA, on their own and at their own expense. All you had to do was to pick the brightest ones and tell them they can come. It worked great. For everybody. They got their learning opportunity, you got premium research, and got to keep both research and continuity of greatest universities in the world and technology.

But now, even before they start considering where to go, USA is now sending the message over all available media that these dirty foreigners are not welcomed and that even if they come, they will be treated as scum.
So they might even go to Oxford rather than UCLA. Or some of universities in Germany or elsewhere in Europe. It is already happening.

And did you really just said :"You don't hear much about Japan any more.  Are they still in business?"

That is just disrespectful on so many levels to such a great country, great people and long time strategic USA partner.
Which is a great example of how USA treats their friends and partners nowadays...
Disrespectful and with great arrogance.
Such a shame for a once great and proud country..
 

Offline rstofer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6547
  • Country: us
America would be better served by policies of stability and international cooperation.


At a net loss of $335B per year in trade imbalance?  I don't think so.  Fair trade would probably have a much smaller imbalance.  Maybe $1B, give or take.

Quote
The U.S. goods and services trade deficit with China was $335.4 billion in 2017. China is currently our largest goods trading partner with $635.4 billion in total (two way) goods trade during 2017. Goods exports totaled $129.9 billion; goods imports totaled $505.5 billion.

There are two ways to balance the equation:  Tariffs, which nobody wants, or rebalancing the buy/sell ratio.  We should buy less and China should buy more.  Or we can wait 6 years and see what happens next.


 

Offline rstofer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6547
  • Country: us
And did you really just said :"You don't hear much about Japan any more.  Are they still in business?"

That is just disrespectful on so many levels to such a great country, great people and long time strategic USA partner.
Which is a great example of how USA treats their friends and partners nowadays...
Disrespectful and with great arrogance.
Such a shame for a once great and proud country..

No disrespect intended.  They were a big topic of discussion back in the '60s and '70s maybe even into the '80s.  I haven't read an article about Japan in 10 years or more.  They no longer make headlines and that's a good thing.  Yes, they are a huge player in automotive and electronics but, for whatever reason, the US doesn't seem to have trade issues with Japan.  They sit back quietly and make lots of money.  They really do have the quality control thing nailed.  Their products are excellent.

Maybe the reason for the lack of press is that their GDP is shrinking (short term) and essentially flat for 25 years.

https://tradingeconomics.com/japan/gdp

With a negative short term interest rate, you would expect to see a lot of growth.  It isn't happening.  They may have hit a logistics limit.

But they have quality control nailed!
 
The following users thanked this post: 2N3055

Offline rstofer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6547
  • Country: us
Taxpayers don't own crap. Taxpayers pay a due (tax) for services rendered to them by state. Public services are rendered to public, valued by utility to public good. So if it serves public to let genius Chinese girl/boy study in USA because they will invent new processor, or reactor or whatever, and that will enhance public good of USA citizens, than yeah, they will give them seat instead of some USA born kid.
Sorry, it is how it works.

Not really!  Taxpayers are voters and when they get pissed off, things change.  Do you suppose that if the issue of foreign students plugging up our universities became a popular issue that it wouldn't change overnight?  Foreign students can't vote and legislators take care of voters first and foremost.  Their reelection depends on it.

If you want to see an example of 'change', you don't need to look far!  Those pesky voters...
 

Offline 2N3055

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2113
  • Country: hr
Taxpayers don't own crap. Taxpayers pay a due (tax) for services rendered to them by state. Public services are rendered to public, valued by utility to public good. So if it serves public to let genius Chinese girl/boy study in USA because they will invent new processor, or reactor or whatever, and that will enhance public good of USA citizens, than yeah, they will give them seat instead of some USA born kid.
Sorry, it is how it works.

Not really!  Taxpayers are voters and when they get pissed off, things change.  Do you suppose that if the issue of foreign students plugging up our universities became a popular issue that it wouldn't change overnight?  Foreign students can't vote and legislators take care of voters first and foremost.  Their reelection depends on it.

If you want to see an example of 'change', you don't need to look far!  Those pesky voters...

Voters are simply repeating what they are being served by propaganda. Only minority of people think rationally, and most of others are not qualified to make important decisions about welfare of their community. They mean well, but make wrong conclusions /decisions based on partial or wrong data. They can be easily manipulated.
Don't make a mistake to think other people are rational if you are..
 

Offline rstofer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6547
  • Country: us
Voters are simply repeating what they are being served by propaganda. Only minority of people think rationally, and most of others are not qualified to make important decisions about welfare of their community. They mean well, but make wrong conclusions /decisions based on partial or wrong data. They can be easily manipulated.
Don't make a mistake to think other people are rational if you are..

Voters ALWAYS vote in their own self-interest.  I have never in my life voted for a Democrat and I've been voting for more than 50 years - higher taxes and increased welfare spending are not in my own self-interest.

I think data is over-rated.  People vote with their heart and gut, not their analytical brain.  That's both the beauty and difficulty of allowing people to vote on how they will be governed.  We don't really have an elite group making unrestricted decisions about how things are going to go.  If the voters don't like something, they can change it.  Assuming enough voters agree.  Yes, mainstream media (the propaganda machine) influences elections.  It's a problem.

Despite the efforts of the media, Trump STILL got elected.  People are smarter than talking news anchors think.
 

Online MT

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1167
  • Country: fo
Why should Trump care? Trump represents the basket of deplorable, not the elites.
Those international elite business people got benefits from setting up shops IN China, not shipping TO China.
Trump's blue collar supporters only care about their OWN jobs, not how much money the capitalists in this country make abroad.
Weeeell, yet he surrounds himselfs with neoconservativeliberals and other globalist elite crocks. It dont bother you China is a Technocracy land?

Despite the efforts of the media, Trump STILL got elected.  People are smarter than talking news anchors think.
Trump didnt come to power by the people but by the Electoral College, US citizens barely makes a recommendation
on whom to become president,the deplorabels are already throw under the bus without knowing it.

People may disslike Trump for all kind of right issues but on the geopolitical theater he's one of few counterweights against the Globalist Technocrats. Trump became the monkey wrench thrown into Technocrats totalitarian machinery against his own will. The lefti, progressives even Marxist next to be eaten alive by the Technocrats, yet they have no idea they are on the list, they think they are part of their inner circle.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 06:31:01 pm by MT »
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf