General > General Technical Chat
I have the feeling that the whole trade war starts from a pile of nonsense.
apis:
--- Quote from: Marco on May 29, 2019, 04:25:42 pm ---Nah, international law is a joke where weaklings pretend to be able to lay claim to the owners of power based on arbitrary rules which are only ever as relevant as those with power choose to make them.
--- End quote ---
Just like any law.
soldar:
--- Quote from: technix on May 29, 2019, 05:25:28 pm ---
--- Quote from: Marco on May 29, 2019, 04:25:42 pm ---The independence is 100% defacto, China's control 100% symbolic.
--- End quote ---
Taipei knows very well that mainland has nukes, and since the no first use doctrine is rescinded they understand that should they misbehave they will be nuked.
--- End quote ---
That is not going to happen unless things go very wrong.
However much freedom, control and sovereignty Taiwan has is not decided by Taiwan in the least, it is decided by America and China. If tomorrow China and America agreed that America will pull out of the region then Taiwan's position changes dramatically and there is nothing Taiwan can do. Taiwan is as free as China and America will allow. Sort of like I can do whatever I want... because my wife lets me.
soldar:
--- Quote from: Marco on May 29, 2019, 04:25:42 pm ---Nah, international law is a joke where weaklings pretend to be able to lay claim to the owners of power based on arbitrary rules which are only ever as relevant as those with power choose to make them.
--- End quote ---
Weaklings like Taiwan lay claim to arbitrary rules which are only ever as relevant as those with power, in this case China and America, choose to make them.
You got the idea exactly.
technix:
--- Quote from: soldar on May 29, 2019, 05:50:02 pm ---That is not going to happen unless things go very wrong.
--- End quote ---
That is what nuclear threat means - you fear nukes coming your way, although unless you behave badly it won't come, yet again you are not sure what does "very badly" mean. China can interpret whatever it feels like as "things went very wrong" and given the TBH fairly vague bottom lines laid out in the Anti-Secession Law that is also a pre-authorization of war the intention of a nuclear threat is pretty clear.
--- Quote from: apis on May 29, 2019, 05:35:08 pm ---Just like any law.
--- End quote ---
Law is as teethed as whoever enforcing it. Hence it is a power balance here between China and US, with Taiwan being nothing more than a pawn really. Once again this is a conflict at potential superpower/UNSC permanent members level, few other entities outside US, China, Russia and EU have a meaningful voice in this.
Back to trade war. NYT published an article br Kevin Rudd on this. (also attached is a PDF, for ones that is hit with the paywall.) Kevin Rudd was PM of Australia, who also speaks fluent Chinese.
apis:
--- Quote from: soldar on May 29, 2019, 05:29:57 pm ---This is simply not so and in reality everybody believes true democracy is the system that gives the result they want. It is futile to want to reduce good government to a mathematical process.
--- End quote ---
Everyone who knows anything agrees that democracy isn't a silver bullet. Churchill said the following in the House of Commons, 11 November 1947:
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time..."
--- Quote from: soldar on May 29, 2019, 05:29:57 pm ---The UK system of first past the post is completely different and yields different results than a system like in Spain where each province elects several representatives.
--- End quote ---
The UK voting system is among the worst that exist and it gives results that very poorly reflects the popular vote. The US have inherited bad aspects of that system unfortunately, but it's difficult to change since it doesn't benefit the existing dominating parties.
--- Quote from: soldar on May 29, 2019, 05:29:57 pm ---The notion that we elect politicians to do what we want is totally false even though they sell us that falsehood.
--- End quote ---
That's not how it works, there are different candidates (parties) that say what they want to do, like build a wall or provide free healthcare, and then people vote for the one they like, if they don't deliver people might try something else next election. Of course, it requires the people to be not complete nitwits and have a clue about what is going on, which is why most countries also have free independent press and public service.
--- Quote from: soldar on May 29, 2019, 05:29:57 pm ---Other countries have different systems. In Afghanistan if you have a problem or concern you talk to your family's elder who will talk to the local leader and may be, if the issue deserves it, the matter will go further up. No voting needed. Each one trusts his family, his clan, his tribe and things get worked out that way. For them voting in western-style elections is meaningless.
--- End quote ---
Maybe you should look a bit closer into the history of Afghanistan, it's a tragedy. Their attempt at democracy was crushed by Soviet and US interference.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Afghanistan#Contemporary_era_(1973%E2%80%93present)
--- Quote from: soldar on May 29, 2019, 05:29:57 pm ---Today we can think that was a bad system but each noble lord was governing in his territory and his people looked to him for protection, not to the king.
--- End quote ---
It's called Feudalism.
The Vikings are believed to have had large gatherings every eight year, if there were repeated years of famine they would sacrifice the old king to the gods and pick a new one. It's probably mostly a fable like much national history writing. Truth is usually less important than giving people a sense of national identity for political propaganda reasons.
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