General > General Technical Chat

I have the feeling that the whole trade war starts from a pile of nonsense.

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technix:

--- Quote from: apis on May 29, 2019, 09:44:24 pm ---Well, being lap dogs is a problem for all small countries. :-[

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To some extent they have to, either that or huddle together to form a union of some sort that can pull its own weight, for example EU, for example ASEAN.


--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on May 29, 2019, 11:16:33 pm ---Democracy is not about the power to vote. It's about distrusting the rulers.

--- End quote ---
This sentiment creates fracture within a country, separating people into two classes bitterly against each other.


--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on May 29, 2019, 11:16:33 pm ---The Obamacare was cancelled because those who voted for Trump didn't trust the other party.

--- End quote ---
Partisanship is blinding. This defeats the purpose of democracy where every citizen is supposed to vote in at least their own good.


--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on May 29, 2019, 11:16:33 pm ---And that's the beauty of democracy. The leaders are always in check.

--- End quote ---
This requires the leader to be honest, at least be forced to be honest. With a leader that can lie without regard, few checks and balances would still work.


--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on May 29, 2019, 11:16:33 pm ---Democracy is a political system with a feedback loop.

--- End quote ---
If only the feedback loop is connected somewhere.


--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on May 29, 2019, 11:16:33 pm ---"Hell is other people" (Sartre). When the US interfered radically, for the benefit of China, in the "internal process" of Japan, by throwing a bomb in their heads, yay! Now that you invited this monster to your turf, dang!

--- End quote ---
Two problems:
1) It was Kuomingtang's time, and I am not sure how they feel about US intervening. If Taiwan's current behavior is anything to go by, they likely don't mind it.
2) It was at total war as part of World War II, so different rules apply.


--- Quote from: magic on May 29, 2019, 11:23:29 pm ---At the same time, it will be interesting to watch because if China reduces censorship on the Internet, there will surely be people trying to spread Westernism inside.
I'm speaking from experience, lots of idiotic ideas from the West are finding their way into Poland, from assorted SJWism to holocaust denial. I wasn't used to seeing it before 2010.
My main hope these days is that Westerners will finally hit the wall and find it impossible to pretend they really believe what they preach, at least some of them.

--- End quote ---
The censorship is ineffective at best if you have the know-how. There is actually little incentive for CCP to patch it, since it forms a nice knowledge barrier to information - highly educated people are allowed free information since they are more likely to talk than rebel, and less educated people are a lot less likely to be riled up and riot.

As of Westernism and SJWism, CCP is listening in and implementing what they think are good ideas, for example non-political charitable NGO's, for example feminism.

I have the feeling that US lacked a sense of real danger due to its geography. To the north there is a solid ally, to the south there is nobody that has a military that can actually do anything to it, and to the east and west there are vast oceans blocking access. On the other hand within the Old World EU and Russia share a border, Russia and China also share a border, making things a lot more delicate to deal with since opposing ground forces can just roll over and fight.

apis:

--- Quote from: soldar on May 29, 2019, 10:28:47 pm ---I lived those years and statistics are out there for everyone to see but I get young people trying to explain to me how bad the Franco years were.  After Franco's death Spain has never again had the GDP growth or the low unemployment of those years. Not even close.

--- End quote ---
I don't know that much about the modern history of Spain so I can't tell if that is true. I do know that in many places after the war, there was a period of soberness and rebuilding that led to an economic boom. Especially in countries that were neutral during the war like Spain and Sweden. Sweden also did very well during those years, while we had democracy, so maybe the problem isn't democracy but something else.

Crime statistics (and statistics in general), are not easy to compare. Numbers are easy to compare of course but they often mean very different things. The number of convictions isn't the same as the number of crimes and criminals. Low crime rates might be because the police wasn't very efficient, high rates might be because the laws have changed and become stricter or because more people are caught, and there might be creative counting involved to make things look better for political reasons. After "mee too" there have been a dramatic increase in sex crime around the world, or is it maybe that more people are reporting the crimes and more people are getting convicted? In Sweden the laws have also become much stricter recently, more things are considered rape and the amount of evidence needed to be convicted for rape is continually being lowered, so the number of rape convictions go up but the actual raping (in the original sense) is decreasing.


--- Quote from: magic on May 29, 2019, 11:23:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: apis on May 28, 2019, 03:29:18 pm ---the dictator only cares about making himself and his family rich.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure if I could name one dictator who did it for the money.

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Well, they want power, etc etc. Money is ultimately just means to an end, it gives you power to do as you like and if you're king you have the ultimate power. I'll admit it's an oversimplification, but look around, what about Belarus, what about the Kings of Saudi Arabia and others in the middle east (Saddam Hussein), or North Korea. Someone mentioned the Vatican so how about the popes? What about Mugabe or His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular. Some say Putin might be among the richest in the world.


--- Quote from: magic on May 29, 2019, 11:23:29 pm ---Maybe in some minor 3rd world countries? :-//

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Maybe having brutal greedy dictators has something to do with being 3rd world countries?


--- Quote from: magic on May 29, 2019, 11:23:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: Hitler ---What was impossible to understand was the boundless hatred they expressed against their own fellow-citizens, how they disparaged their own nation, mocked at its greatness, reviled its history and dragged the names of its most illustrious men in the gutter.
--- End quote ---
That rings quite true, particularly when I look at Westerners. Go figure.


--- Quote from: Marco on May 29, 2019, 04:25:42 pm ---Nah, international law is a joke where weaklings pretend to be able to lay claim to the owners of power based on arbitrary rules which are only ever as relevant as those with power choose to make them. True sovereignty is about having the power to control your land, literally. Homegrown power and the power of allies.
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I approve. I will add that as long as Americans have more guns than citizens and some balls to use or threaten to use them when appropriate, they are sovereign people. And the US does seem to be more stable than any country in Europe, even despite being somewhat democratic.

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Like you just did you mean? Especially the authoritarian far right in Europe keep whining and complaining about western culture and how much they hate it. They keep mocking western institutions and ideals. All nationalists I've ever heard build their rhetorics around the idea that their countries and western culture are rotten and decadent.


--- Quote from: magic on May 29, 2019, 11:23:29 pm ---I'm speaking from experience, lots of idiotic ideas from the West are finding their way into Poland, from assorted SJWism to holocaust denial. I wasn't used to seeing it before 2010.

--- End quote ---
It almost sound like you believe Poland isn't and has always been part of the west, Europe and western culture?  ???

magic:
Eastern Europe was isolated behind the Iron Curtain when the West ran amok with all that critical theory and postmodernist mumbo-jumbo and "questioned" away all their common sense.
When we were part of the West, nobody was saying that diversity is a strength, quite the contrary.

technix:
Here is some theory I have heard in China: the purpose of this trade war is to achieve at least one of the following:
1) Force an economical regression of no less than 50%, preferably 75% or more.
2) Fracture China into several states, that is deeply at war with each other. EU-style confederation is not an option.
The goal of this is to guarantee no competition to US in any way.

BravoV:

--- Quote from: technix on May 31, 2019, 05:12:42 am ---Here is some theory I have heard in China: the purpose of this trade war is to achieve at least one of the following:
1) Force an economical regression of no less than 50%, preferably 75% or more.
2) Fracture China into several states, that is deeply at war with each other. EU-style confederation is not an option.
The goal of this is to guarantee no competition to US in any way.

--- End quote ---

Looking at the ways the orange face dude managed the international relationship affairs as he is just good at bluffing, I would say China should do just few stunts, say like sinking one or two or the whole fleet of the big US military ships when crossing Taiwan strait.

That will send a crystal clear message.

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