Author Topic: I have the feeling that the whole trade war starts from a pile of nonsense.  (Read 89715 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 18118
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
BBC News aired a story on 29th May about rare earth minerals being China's trump card, maybe.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-48366074



It's ok, they are needed for wind turbines and cars and Trump does not like either.
 
The following users thanked this post: chris_leyson

Offline apis

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1667
  • Country: se
  • Hobbyist
The idea was that trump would get to see it. If it's a mere 20m off the ground in a place he is not going to visit it's original intention is pointless.
He has probably seen the blimp in the "fake news" at least, even if they wanted him to see it live.
 

Offline apis

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1667
  • Country: se
  • Hobbyist
I'm starting to wonder if Trump is starting all these trade wars (Mexico, China, Japan, Europe, Canada) just to get re-elected. It's popular with his supporters no doubt and they might feel that they need to keep Trump or they will surely loose.
 

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 18118
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
I have no idea, he has an ideology, it resonates with people. It all depends on what effect it has and who gets blamed for those effects. Afterr a political ideology is like a religeon, people will have faith at all costs.
 

Offline Bud

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7275
  • Country: ca
All you need to know about what is in D.Trump mind was read/listen his book "Think big and kick ass". Anyone who did that would be able to understand him inside out. I guess not many are familiar with the book.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 18118
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
Unfortunately I only have time to read for engineering.
 

Offline windsmurf

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • !
  • Posts: 625
  • Country: us
I have no idea, he has an ideology, it resonates with people. It all depends on what effect it has and who gets blamed for those effects. Afterr a political ideology is like a religeon, people will have faith at all costs.

Trump has no ideology... he changes his tune whenever it suits his purpose; a true demagogue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Donald_Trump
 
The following users thanked this post: TheNewLab

Offline magic

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7453
  • Country: pl
Imagine that somebody sat for hours and compiled that list :scared:

I don't get it. I Half of what he says are memes or random ideas he just throws around to see how people react. I never believed he will build that goddamn wall.
 

Offline windsmurf

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • !
  • Posts: 625
  • Country: us
Imagine that somebody sat for hours and compiled that list :scared:

I don't get it. I Half of what he says are memes or random ideas he just throws around to see how people react. I never believed he will build that goddamn wall.

Wikipedia is a community-managed encyclopedia... ordinary people contribute to the articles in Wikipedia.  Even you can go in and edit or add information to any of the articles. 

If you like debates, I recommend Intelligence Squared debate series.  Here's a recent one arguing the statement: "The Republican Party Should Not Re-Nominate Trump."
Its debate is between two groups of conservative Republicans split on this statement.
https://youtu.be/cAbMyUfeGPg
 
The following users thanked this post: TheNewLab

Offline technixTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3508
  • Country: cn
  • From Shanghai With Love
    • My Untitled Blog
Here is a piece of immigration policy news, likely have an impact on the trade issue too: Extreme social media scrutiny for US visa applicants came in force.
 

Online Miti

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1405
  • Country: ca
Here is a piece of immigration policy news, likely have an impact on the trade issue too: Extreme social media scrutiny for US visa applicants came in force.

Well, it was just a matter of time for this to happen. Social media is the biggest intelligence agency that ever existed. I quote Edward Snowden:
"Businesses that make money by collecting and selling detailed records of private lives were once plainly described as 'surveillance companies. Their rebranding as 'social media' is the most successful deception since the Department of War became the Department of Defense."

Whoever falls for that deception deserves his fate. The problem is that fakebook collects information even from non members and that bothers me and should bother everyone. But emails? If I open someone's letter, I commit a federal offence. If they open my emails, and google does open all our emails, that's fine. Mail, email and phone conversations should be private, at least in the past were expected to be private.
What shitty times we live!
Fear does not stop death, it stops life.
 

Offline apis

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1667
  • Country: se
  • Hobbyist
I Half of what he says are memes or random ideas he just throws around to see how people react. I never believed he will build that goddamn wall.
Populism in other words.

I didn't think so either but he has tried hard to build that wall but the Democrats have stopped him so far. I don't think he cares if it it makes sense or not as long as he gets re-elected and can get through the tax cuts and other reforms (tariffs?) that help his finances. It also looks like it's important for him to hear his fans cheer for him (narcissist) so he tries to please them. Trump's ideology seems to be "do what benefits Trump".

Not sure but maybe he's currently putting on a show for his re-election campaign, after that he will end the trade wars and point out some of the battles he won but failing to realise (or not caring that) he lost the war. Or he will continue and force the world into a global economic depression. It's hard to tell, Trump is Trump. :-\
 

Offline apis

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1667
  • Country: se
  • Hobbyist
Whoever falls for that deception deserves his fate.
No

The problem is that fakebook collects information even from non members and that bothers me and should bother everyone. But emails? If I open someone's letter, I commit a federal offence. If they open my emails, and google does open all our emails, that's fine. Mail, email and phone conversations should be private, at least in the past were expected to be private.
What shitty times we live!
People don't care because they have enormous trust in secret government organisations for some reason, yet they always mistrust their politicians.  ???

Of course, if you could trust the government surveillance wouldn't be a problem, but you can't trust the government so it is.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 02:10:36 pm by apis »
 

Online Miti

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1405
  • Country: ca
People don't care because they have enormous trust in secret government organisations for some reason, yet they always mistrust their politicians.  ???
Of course, if you could trust the government surveillance wouldn't be a problem, but you can't trust the government so it is.

Why do you think we keep people poorly educated and indoctrinated? That makes them gullible.  ;D
Fear does not stop death, it stops life.
 

Offline soldar

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3595
  • Country: es
Why do you think we keep people poorly educated and indoctrinated? That makes them gullible.  ;D


Who is this "we" that keeps the people poorly educated? Because it seems to me the people themselves do a pretty good job of that by themselves. Most people are lazy thinkers who prefer cheap entertainment and garbage TV than study and improving themselves. Nobody is stopping them but themselves.
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 18118
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
Why do you think we keep people poorly educated and indoctrinated? That makes them gullible.  ;D


Who is this "we" that keeps the people poorly educated? Because it seems to me the people themselves do a pretty good job of that by themselves. Most people are lazy thinkers who prefer cheap entertainment and garbage TV than study and improving themselves. Nobody is stopping them but themselves.

True, but it is a vicious cycle that self perpetuates. Personally I would eliminate child benefits and increase minimum wages. If you want kids you chose to have kids, not because you will get a government hand out. People who can be bothered to get a job and earn enough will tend to be better parents. I cringe when I see parents rebutting their children for asking questions because they are too lazy or thick to answer and promote an interest in their children.
 

Offline apis

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1667
  • Country: se
  • Hobbyist
It's also that there's not always time. If you don't have a lot of money you have to spend more time working, and you might have family and kids to care for. So might not be much time left for learning. Everyone might not be able to learn so easily either, you have to find information and digest it yourself. That said, a lot of people are just not interested.
 

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 18118
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
Well in this country as fast as women got more wages and the idea that women can work too the cost of living overtook wages. I find it unconceivable that couples have to both work full time just to mae ends meet. But this is all part of keep them down and ignorant. David Cameron made it clear:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-resents-poor-prime-4358539
 

Offline apis

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1667
  • Country: se
  • Hobbyist
It's a zero sum game, if people get more money prices go up, also known as inflation. They measure this against commodity goods like bread. I.e. if someone a 1000 years ago had money equal to 1 loaf of bread every day, and someone today also has money enough to buy 1 loaf per day, the idea is that they were equally "rich". (The difference of course is the amount of work that was required to produce the loafs of bread). Sweden has an inflation goal of 2%, i.e. the cost of bread go up 2% every year. If your salary doesn't also go up 2% every year you are getting poorer (in this somewhat arbitrary sense).

I just realised I wish I knew more economics. People on this forum probably know a lot about electronics and other engineering topics, but how much do we know about other subjects? We don't have time to learn everything either, there is just too much to learn and too little time in a life.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 05:59:00 pm by apis »
 

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 18118
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
It's a zero sum game, if people get more money prices go up, also known as inflation. They measure this against commodity goods like bread. I.e. if someone a 1000 years ago had money equal to 1 loaf of bread every day, and someone today also has money enough to buy 1 loaf per day, the idea is that they were equally "rich". (The difference of course is the amount of work that was required to produce the loafs of bread). Sweden has an inflation goal of 2%, i.e. the cost of bread go up 2% every year. If your salary doesn't also go up 2% every year you are getting poorer (in this somewhat arbitrary sense).

Worker cost is not the only contributor to prices. We live in a society geared towards churning out as much "stuff" as possible, to make as much profit as possible only to encourage the consumer to throw away what they just bought to buy another thing no better than the last. We see a gradual deteoriation in the quality of goods. People do not understand the buy cheap buy twice.

In the UK we have families requiring housing benefits becasue despite working full time they cannot afford rent. We also have astronomical rents. My house has doubled in value in 8 years. My mortgage (loan for the house) costs me each month 1 half of what rent is. We had the financial crash and our central bank decided that to stimulate the economy they should lower interest rates. So mortgages became cheap and peoples money in the bank was not making interest. So every man and his dog went out and bought a second house as an investment becasue they could double their money. So the prices of houses shot up and so did rents.

So many families can ill afford their rent and will never be able to save for the deposit to buy a house. So once if you were clever you bought a house at a sensible price, you had a certain amount of interest to pay but you could afford the overall price. If you were smart you paid some extra each month and because of thu interest rate it made a massive difference reducing interest costs over decades. But now while paying the same money each month your capital value is high and your interest is low so no matter what you pay extra it hardly makes a difference. I stopped overpaying my mortgage with its 2% interest and invested at 8.5%. My saved money will rack up interest faster in savings than it would reduce interest in my loan allowing me to pay off even earlier later.

So the financial policy in the reccession did nothing for the poor, it made them poorer and not one politician or banker lost out. So yea in this climate try having children and having the time to bring them up properly and wonder why there is ignorance.
 

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 18118
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
And of course you can argue that the benefits paid to workers are not benefits for the worker but their employer that can now pay them less and make more profit while only paying 20% of that in tax so their keep 80% of the savings.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5569
  • Country: us
It isn't a zero sum game.  Wealth is created, things like new farmland in the Netherlands, buildings that last more than one lifetime and the like.  As a result people today are in some sense far wealthier than they were in the past.  In developed societies virtually everyone has indoor plumbing and climate controlled living conditions, things that didn't used to be available to even the fabulously wealthy.

But it has some similarities to a zero sum game since total wealth changes slowly, and large short term gains by one group mean taking it away from another.  The real problem is that it is really, really complex.  And our understanding of economics might be compared to Faraday's understanding of electromagnetic theory.  We have some strong empirical relationships, but no theory of everything.

This complexity and ignorance is made clear with the example of woman joining the work force.  A simplistic view is that income (and perceived wealth) will double.  But various factors (like the hidden cost of child care, housework and food preparation that wasn't acknowledged when woman only worked in the home, and the real but maybe not admitted costs of working like clothing and another car) make that change far, far smaller.  Add new necessities like cell phones, computers and the like along with health care and education costs rising at rates far higher than general inflation and the whole benefit just evaporates.
 
The following users thanked this post: apis

Online Miti

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1405
  • Country: ca
Why do you think we keep people poorly educated and indoctrinated? That makes them gullible.  ;D


Who is this "we" that keeps the people poorly educated? Because it seems to me the people themselves do a pretty good job of that by themselves. Most people are lazy thinkers who prefer cheap entertainment and garbage TV than study and improving themselves. Nobody is stopping them but themselves.

"We" the western education system. Just go on youtube and see people on the street asked where the Panama canal is.

I read a very interesting thing somewhere and I quote:
"Hard times create strong people, strong people create good times, good times create dumb people, dumb people create hard times." And the cycle goes forever.
Fear does not stop death, it stops life.
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23099
  • Country: gb
Rubbish.

Let's not confuse general knowledge with the ability to create, construct, design and improve. The Western education system produces a hell of a lot of people who can do the latter. I know a few people who know where the Panama canal is and the precise dimensions and a million other facts yet would fatally stab themselves somewhere with a butter knife trying to assemble a simple flat-pack furniture item.

There's always dumbasses. There's always intelligent people. The fight. Unfortunately intelligence doesn't mean that the people are good. That's where it falls down.
 

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 18118
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics

But it has some similarities to a zero sum game since total wealth changes slowly, and large short term gains by one group mean taking it away from another.  The real problem is that it is really, really complex.  And our understanding of economics might be compared to Faraday's understanding of electromagnetic theory.  We have some strong empirical relationships, but no theory of everything.


Yes your right. However you value stuff what counts is inequality. We have individuals that have a ridicolous amounts of money. it has got to the point were after your on a few million the amount no longer matters to you personally it's just a badge and gives you a ranking in the worlds wealthy. Every time i hear the name jeff besos it is immediately precedded or followed by "richest man in the world". He makes news simply because he is n.1. But if he had half the money would he actually be any worse off? would any of them? These people can't even spend the interest their money makes fast enough.

The rich and politicians are very good at blaming the poor. This drives what we call the middle and lower middle class that will go with the hate because they fear so much loosing that little foothold and putting them back into the working class because this class thing is bollocks. All class means is "we don't like to talk about money so we call how much you have/earn, class". If we can't actually talk about money we can't sort the social and economic problems out.

i have to laugh when i hear about how hard the better paid work. How hard you work has nothing to do with how well paid you are.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf