Author Topic: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )  (Read 71092 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Kiriakos-GR

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 3525
  • Country: gr
  • User is banned.
    • Honda AX-1 rebuild
I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« on: April 07, 2010, 05:50:29 pm »
Yep I am thinking to buy one Fluke 87 ...  ( lots of digits on the screen )

And I found several versions of it ...

The First one called  "  Fluke 87 "  Made at 1996 - 1998 .

Then , its another version called as "  Fluke 87 III  "  (provably third generation )

And another one called as "  Fluke 87 V  "    ( The Latin " V " = fifth generation )

Can you in light me ..   about the deferences  between the three versions ?

Does it worth today , to buy the oldest first release ?

Thanks ..
« Last Edit: June 08, 2010, 11:34:09 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29240
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2010, 10:46:52 pm »
I don't remember when the original Fluke 87 came in, but I thought it was a bit earlier than 96?
The original took the market by storm, and is what cemented it as probably the #1 general use industrial meter.

I don't ever remember seeing an 87-II anywhere, although I guess maybe there was one at one point, at least internally at Fluke?

The 87-III was the next major update. It improved the accuracy from 0.1% to 0.05%, but it defaulted to AC instead of DC for current (annoying IMO). It also added a removable battery door, and the ability to switch back and forth from 4.5 digit mode without turning off the meter.

The 87-IV does exist, but it was like the 180 series. I figure Fluke knew they made a mistake by calling it an 87, so they spun off into the 180 series.

The 87-V added temperature measurement and low pass filter.

That's from memory anyway!

Dave.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 3525
  • Country: gr
  • User is banned.
    • Honda AX-1 rebuild
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2010, 11:05:32 pm »
Thanks Dave , about the "date of birth "  ;D  about  the " 87 V " ,
found from the FLUKE book , that was made :

May 2004 Rev. 1, 8/04
2004 Fluke Corporation, All rights reserved.
All product names are trademarks of their respective companies.

So its all ready  6 years old !!  :D

So from your reply , I can conclude , that I will have to stay away from the  87 III line .

Does this  Fluke 80 family , suffers from display issues , found some stories about display ghosting ,
and repair kits about it ... are they so sensitive ?  

And as last , what worries me , or bothers me , are to get the one with the faster  refreshing times ,
display and calculations ..  
Does all  act with the same speed ?  
Even the first 87  until the latest  87 V  ..
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 11:11:10 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 3525
  • Country: gr
  • User is banned.
    • Honda AX-1 rebuild
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2010, 03:48:22 pm »
Dave ... I got it ..  http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270555009910

Not cheaply , but hell its an sparkling one .

Now I have new , questions   ;D

Is the full manual of it, available on PDF ?
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29240
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2010, 09:31:24 pm »
I've never seen the display issue myself, but you can buy repair kits on ebay to solve it, so I guess at least some people have the problem.

Fluke have most of their manuals online just google "fluke manuals".
I believe all the models have the same update speed.

Dave.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 3525
  • Country: gr
  • User is banned.
    • Honda AX-1 rebuild
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2010, 10:42:08 pm »
It looks that the called repair kit ,  its just the ( elastic carbon contacts strip ) .

So the called damage, could possibly happen, only if the instrument gets exposed to extreme heat ,
that could possibly cause disinformation of the soft strip,  with side-effects ,
loss of tension = poor contact , between LCD + PCB.
The sellers  recommend the fix , for the first 87 line ... (1996) 

About the documents , I found them ... but I had some hard times ,  I was finding old revisions of them.
Finally found truly fresh material ..  (2005 - 2008 ) on the Canadian site  ;) 

http://ca.fluke.com/Fluke/caen/support/manuals/default.htm

Best ever document, this one ..
http://assets.fluke.com/manuals/8xv_____cmeng0104.pdf




 

Offline switcher

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 75
  • Country: gb
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2010, 09:15:56 pm »
The 80 series were introduced in the mid 80s IIRC.
the original 87 manual is dated 1988 on the fluke website.
Here is a good write up covering the different types:-

http://reviews.ebay.com/Fluke-Meters-80-Type-Models-and-Series_W0QQugidZ10000000007491382
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 3525
  • Country: gr
  • User is banned.
    • Honda AX-1 rebuild
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2010, 12:31:54 am »
Woa ... amazing link   ;)  Thumps Up ...

I do not know, if I have the right to make comments about it here.

Any way , in all this pile of info, they are usable tips.
But there is also and some  " bloat"  in it , or better expressed " misinformation " ,
like about getting instruments on ebay , from the " right hands" , or " worthy " or " expert sellers".

I feel 1000 times better , by knowing that I got my Fluke , from an young Deejay who lives in a small place in Honolulu , and his main interest are playing music .

Than getting one covered with grease , or other hazardous deposits , found only in heavy industry .
And who knows how many times , it had be dropped down ( even accidentally) .

And about " expert sellers" ... they are the first ones that they can " cook " an heavily damaged multimeter , to look as shiny , and internally to be like hell .

Any way , I will stop here , getting out of topic , its not my hobby .  :)

  


  

      
 

« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 12:41:45 am by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 3525
  • Country: gr
  • User is banned.
    • Honda AX-1 rebuild
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2010, 12:40:23 pm »
Finally found some pictures of the Add-ons , when it comes boxed ..  

Dave .... stop laughing  man ..  ;D  ;D  ;D

Yes its just the  " Getting started "  ... tight asses   ;D  LOL

I watched your recent review about the wireless one ,  and your reactions , of screaming  ... why ! why ! why !  ....  ;)
    
So for any one who gets the instrument , with out the book, there is no real loss ..



.
.
.  PS: If you like the picture , save it on your computer too , imageshack its an unstable service,
uploaded pictures , could be lost .. or some times it does ..

Dave , we should have the option to upload directly on the forum server...
Or valuable information and pictures , are in danger over the time .
I know that an small cost involved for the service , but I like to believe ,
that all of us , we could help if needed ..  ;)   
« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 12:49:07 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 3525
  • Country: gr
  • User is banned.
    • Honda AX-1 rebuild
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2010, 07:30:10 pm »
Its my hobby , or personal tactic  , for everything that I get – Buy , to collect in advance any information that circulates ,
about it .

So , I did the same about the Fluke 87-5  , and I constructed  one F.A.Q. made by an technician , for the technicians.
Now if the word   “ F.A.Q.” sounds too much , call it as “unofficial Tips” list .  


1) Deference’s between  the 87V  (5 Generation )

The 87V has a switchable low pass ac filter for those trying to measure the output of an adjustable speed motor drive, the 87-III does not.

The 87V has a type K temperature mode and includes the 80BK beaded thermocouple probe, the 87-III does not.

The 87V can measure capacitors to 10,000uF, the 87-III can only measure to 5uF.

87: 5uF maximum
87 III: 5uF maximum
87 V: 9,999 uF maximum or 9.99mF

The default A/D converter on the 87V is 6000 counts, the 87-III is only 4000 counts. Both are switchable to 20,000 counts.

The 87V's has a CAT IV 600V safety rating, the 87-III does not.

The 87V has a smoothing mode, the 87-III does not.

The 87V's new holster (model H80M) has the necessary locking slots to work with Tool Pack and Locking Pack accessories, the 87-III does not but you can use the new holster with it to get that capability.

Otherwise the 87V and 87-III have the same ranges and functions and physical size.


2) The story about the “ 87-4 “
In 1999, the 87-4 was introduced as new a model that combine the features of the 87-3 and the 8060A meters. The 89-4 is the same as the 87-4 with the addition of the logging capabilities. The 87-4 and 89-4 were never considered to be the same meter as the 87-3 witch is now the 87-5. They just happen to share a similar model number. About two years later the 87-4 and 89-4 were updated and re-branded as the 187 and 189.
The 87-IV and the 89-IV had a Pulse width measure range that only when down to 50.000 msec.

3) Function Tip ..  enable - disable high impedance .
To enable the high impedance mode for the 87-3 or 87-5 press and hold the Hz button during power-up. The input impedance is changed from 10 Megohms to >4,000 Megohms. This function is useful to measure mili-volts on very low energy circuits where a very high input impedance is needed.

4) Repair TIP  damaged  multimeter by  high power RF  
Sign of damage , LCD on  - meter does not respond to selector changes.
Look to find an fusible resistor of 1 K Ohm , replace it with equal type .

5)   Display repair  part 1
Sign of damage : No back light ..
Cause :   Bad transistor that turns on the light, it is right before the light socket.
Cure :Its replaceable with a standard transistor, you could try  2n3906 or a 2n3904 .
One of the two will do the trick 100% .

6)   Display repair  part 2
Sign of damage : Faulty display – Ghosting – numbers fades
Cause : Between the display and the PCB , there is elastomeric pads ,
at the connection point between  elastomeric pads and PCB , there is soft signs of oxidation.
Cure :

a* Remove the screws on the back.

b* Disconnect the battery

c* Be careful and remove the outer LCD cover (clipped on)

d* Gently pull off the LCD portion (it sits on the possibly oxidized connections that you'll soon clean with alcohol)

e* Pull off the bottom white LCD backing still in the meter (connected by 2 pins on the left)

f* Clean all the circular button connections and the pins below the LCD in the skinny slots top and bottom for the LCD about roughly 40 pins.

g* Cleaning solutions .. denatured alcohol  or  glass cleaner ( as less drastic solution ) ,
anything powerful  could  shorten the life of the elastomeric pads .

k* Use tweezers to remove the old Pink elastomers if they stay down in the slot(s) to avoid any 'skin oil' deposits being left....they usually stick to the bottom of the glass in most cases, which makes it easier.

The elastomeric kit is available from Fluke, and the part number is 627494. This is not the display upgrade kit (model DR80). Replacing the elastomeric connectors will correct the problem.

Most problems was show up when your meter has an Pink colored elastomeric pad ,
Fluke found that this pads was causing issues , upgraded the material with new type grey color this time.
If your meter are an old  one, and uses the  Pink one , its best to upgrade it , with the latest Grey  elastomeric.
The ones with the Grey  elastomeric, do not suffer so far from the above issue .

7)   Does my meter need to be calibrated?
 If you short the test leads together, does the meter read zero volts (or at least very close to zero)?
If yes , you are ok .

8 )    Do you repair your own tools ?  
If yes,  you worth to have ,  the complete schematic of the Fluke 87  & PCB layout &,
part list =  full PDF file :    83_85_87smeng0500.pdf  (11.850 KB)

http://assets.fluke.com/manuals/83_85_87smeng0500.pdf


9)   Fluke special Fuses …

a)  Type 10,3X38 FLU11(11A) -Volt  Rating  1KV- Breaking point 17000A ( recently Fluke updated the specs to 20000A)
b)  Type 10,3X35  DMM 44/100= 440mA -  Volt  Rating  1KV- Breaking point 10000A  

Tip :  Its from the few times , that I will advice too " call Fluke ", so to get them , or the nearest representative !!
At the begging of  2009 ,  there was a battle between the  Fuse manufactures like  Bussman & LittleFuse ,
and they had triple the prices , of the same fuses , when they get sell in the open market !!

Fluke , has its own stock , and keeps the pricing almost low , because they making money, from their products,
and not mainly from the fuses !!    

EU Pricing  11A  ( 8.50 – 12 EUR ) VAT included
EU Pricing  440mA  ( 5.32 – 11 EUR ) VAT included

Be aware about  similar fuses from SIBA brand , looks identical in specs ,
but they have Breaking point 30000A .
Check the page called as  URZ 23
http://www.sibafuses.com/pdf/urz.pdf

I am not aware if they can be used , but they are the closest in specs , from any other solution worldwide.


If you have, any similar tips , just add them .. and help this Tips list to grow .

Thanks ..    
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 08:28:37 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2010, 01:17:25 am »
Here's my page for the service manual of the original 83,5, 7 series.  It was for my 85 bought in late early 1990s.  You'll see this series is as old as 1989.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 03:33:09 pm by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 3525
  • Country: gr
  • User is banned.
    • Honda AX-1 rebuild
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2010, 02:12:24 am »
Now that I finally got my 87-5 , noticed few details , thats its good to be known.

When I power it up ,  I get an fast boot screen as { F87 }

Well, I am a bit lost in here , is it a firmware version? .. or model version ?
In the alphabet the " F " stands for the number " 6 ".

I am not worry if the instrument are genuine ,  only older face plates , from 87 III ,
could possibly masquerading one old 87, to look as 87III .. ( theoretically speaking) 

One quirk that I dislike :
At High Resolution mode ...  at 20V (end of the high resolution road )
The meter correctly show as { 19.999 } above that drops to { 20.10 },that is logical.
In order to show again the high Resolution , it does not need to lower the voltage to less than 20 again , but to drop it down to 16.80 ... then it shows again High resolution .   
( My DC PSU has an 30 turns potentiometer on it ... I have to do 3-4  complete rotations to drop it that low !! )
.
.


Another  quirk that I found , are the clear plastic on the  display ,
its so shiny that causes  reflections  " glare " , even with the indoor lighting. 
( An not shinny LCD protector film , could be the answer ) 

The holster , with the extended rear ( foot - leg - support point ) , does not look to be well designed ,
it causes the feeling that the instrument will fall - flip , by an accidental sock , or even by pooling the test leads  in your direction.
( I am working on a solution about it , I had not made my mind yet )
.
.


Other than that looks solid ..
.


I had test and the  "high impedance" function ...
I could measure the standard impedance at about 11Mohm ,
but for the high one , I could not do it , as my other DMM stops at 200Mohm.   


 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29240
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2010, 03:26:33 am »


Oooo, I like the vernier dial on that supply!

Dave.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 3525
  • Country: gr
  • User is banned.
    • Honda AX-1 rebuild
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2010, 10:48:43 am »
This specific dial its like 38 years old..   :)
found it last year , when we updated some machinery in my work, actually I save it, from becoming scrap.

The PSU its model of 90s , It belongs to the over 1000$ price range.

I had recently replace the volts pot with a Burns 10 turns (3540S-1-103).
http://datasheet.octopart.com/3540S-1-103-Bourns-datasheet-9381.pdf   

Close up , for the younger ones , to see how it looks like.
What it does as part , are to count the rotations , the smaller handle gives more resolution in movement,
and the top right ( lever) .. works as lock , so to not be turned accidentally, or by vibrations.

Lets see if the attachments tool works..  ;)
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2010, 05:23:47 pm »
I still use this type of PS, dual tracking.  I brought them back from the Pacific when I lived there, most mid range tools are Japanese, mine is a Trio, I think that's a brand used by Kenwood in the 1980s.


This specific dial its like 38 years old..   :)
found it last year , when we updated some machinery in my work, actually I save it, from becoming scrap.

The PSU its model of 90s , It belongs to the over 1000$ price range.

I had recently replace the volts pot with a Burns 10 turns (3540S-1-103).
http://datasheet.octopart.com/3540S-1-103-Bourns-datasheet-9381.pdf   

Close up , for the younger ones , to see how it looks like.
What it does as part , are to count the rotations , the smaller handle gives more resolution in movement,
and the top right ( lever) .. works as lock , so to not be turned accidentally, or by vibrations.

Lets see if the attachments tool works..  ;)
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 3525
  • Country: gr
  • User is banned.
    • Honda AX-1 rebuild
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2010, 01:01:55 pm »
I am very happy today , my 87V passed the test of one voltage calibrator with success.   ;D
I was just a bit worried , because I got it as used, and so there was a little doubt puzzling me.

The installation that the test took place are "restricted", so I will not say anything more about it.

I will just say what happened, and one picture special made for public view.  

The " calibrator " was one air-tight device , with 5 or 6  selectors , its selector had a scale of 0-9.
And by setting the proper combination on the rotary knobs , you where getting the specific output.
It needs to heat up , in one specific temperature ( probably has an internal heater) , takes about 3 minutes to get ready.
The output of it, was only 11V to zero ..  ( if it helps, I could also describe it, as one PLL synthesizer that produces voltage instead of RF )

The Fluke 87 are above it ..in the picture.

Under the "calibrator"  Its a rack-able  Fluke DVM with resolution as {12.00000} = 12V

At the right side its another "old" hand-held Fluke DMM , its recognizable  :) , next to it , its an Metex DMM , no auto range .

The test was quick  5-7 minutes ( do not ask why ) ..  :)

The Fluke 87-5 got tested  at 7V  and 5V and 5mV & 1mV.

At the volts scale , it proved to be off set at the last digit ( high resolution ) like "Minus 1"
When the voltage had set as  {5.00035} confirmed by the rack-able  Fluke ,
the 87-5 was indicating {4.999} ,
The old Fluke and the Metex was measuring as {5.0} they are low resolution.
Both remain accurate in all tests , by acting alike.   

At the mini-volts  was totally accurate , no matter the setting, was fantastic there.
We had test it, at 1mV and 5mV ,  and all the digits was an perfect {1.000}1mV and {5.000}5mV    
        
From today, I can trust it 100% or 99.99999%   ;D


  ( I took the picture at the end of the task and after, so any readings pictured has no true value )
« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 01:11:24 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 
The following users thanked this post: Marco1971

Offline Excavatoree

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 836
  • Country: us
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2010, 05:16:19 pm »
Woa ... amazing link   ;)  Thumps Up ...

I do not know, if I have the right to make comments about it here.

Any way , in all this pile of info, they are usable tips.
But there is also and some  " bloat"  in it , or better expressed " misinformation " ,
like about getting instruments on ebay , from the " right hands" , or " worthy " or " expert sellers".

I feel 1000 times better , by knowing that I got my Fluke , from an young Deejay who lives in a small place in Honolulu , and his main interest are playing music .

Than getting one covered with grease , or other hazardous deposits , found only in heavy industry .
And who knows how many times , it had be dropped down ( even accidentally) .

And about " expert sellers" ... they are the first ones that they can " cook " an heavily damaged multimeter , to look as shiny , and internally to be like hell .

Any way , I will stop here , getting out of topic , its not my hobby .  :)



Hello!  First, I apologize for the off-topic nature of this post.

Thanks for your comments.  I've heard almost no feedback about my E-bay reviews, and it's good to see someone has thought about them.

I'm interested in a few of your comments:

First,  I never used the term "worthy" sellers at all.  I never meant to imply that some sellers are "worthy" and some are not.    I meant that sellers differ, and the type of seller will affect whether or not you want to bid on a meter, and what you should pay.   Your DJ seller, for example, is a good one to buy from.  Yes, some meters are beat to crap, and some change hands in pawn shops, etc, and are sold by folks who know nothing about them.  Those are the meters you take a risk buying.  Now, if you want parts, or a "fixer upper" you will be looking at sellers differently than a student who needs a fully-checked out, guaranteed meter.  

I may need to clarify what I call an "expert seller."  There are some "so called expert sellers" that will do as you say - rip someone off.  The ones I recommend (I don't give names for two reasons - one: It looks like I'm colluding with them and not being objective and two:  There are probably expert sellers I don't know about.  The sellers I call "expert" would never sell a pretty, but fried inside meter.  The would have checked it with their calibrators (or a meter of suitably higher accuracy) and will guarantee that it's good.  In my guide, I try to help folks identify the seller's knowledge, so buyers can be informed.  I've seen an "expert" purposely mislead someone - but using common sense when reading their ad will identify these - no knowledge of electronics is required at all.   (obviously, I can't mention this seller's name, either)

I never meant to say that you should only buy from "expert seller."  As you found, you can get a very good meter from someone who may not be a "meter expert."   

Again, I'm sorry if this is "off topic" but I was happy to see a link to my guide.  I welcome any comments, suggestions, criticism, etc. etc.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2010, 05:32:18 pm by Excavatoree »
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2010, 07:25:32 pm »
Wow, that old Fluke is still alive and working?  That model is over 30y old!

It looks like an 8060A, my 'dream' DMM, I could never afford back then.


« Last Edit: April 23, 2010, 08:08:37 pm by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 3525
  • Country: gr
  • User is banned.
    • Honda AX-1 rebuild
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2010, 07:54:05 pm »
Quote
Hello!

Thanks for your comments.  I've heard almost no feedback about my E-bay reviews, and it's good to see someone has thought about them.

I'm interested in a few of your comments:

First,  I never used the term "worthy" sellers at all.  I never meant to imply that some sellers are "worthy" and some are not.    I meant that sellers differ, and the type of seller will affect whether or not you want to bid on a meter, and why you should pay.   Your DJ seller, for example, is a good one to buy from.  Yes, some meters are beat to crap, and some change hands in pawn shops, etc, and are sold by folks who know nothing about them.  Those are the meters you take a risk buying.  Now, if you want parts, or a "fixer upper" you will be looking at sellers differently than a student who needs a fully-checked out, guaranteed meter.

I may need to clarify what I call an "expert seller."  There are some "so called expert sellers" that will do as you say - rip someone off.  The ones I recommend (I don't give names for two reasons - one: It looks like I'm colluding with them and not being objective and two:  There are probably expert sellers I don't know about.  The sellers I call "expert" would never sell a pretty, but fried inside meter.  The would have checked it with their calibrators (or a meter of suitably higher accuracy) and will guarantee that it's good.  

Perhaps I do need to clarify that buying from a person like your DJ is a good thing to do.

Sorry if this is "off topic" but I was happy to see a link to my guide.  I welcome any comments, suggestions, criticism, etc. etc.

Hello  @Excavatoree  and welcome.  
Your first reply here are right on target , as confirmation , about the matters that I had "nag" about.

The DJ seller, represents in my way of thinking, the "reliable" home user , who got something out of his waters (overkill product for his needs ) , and just needs to cash back.
But to be honest, its a matter of how careful you are in a personal level, as shopper.

1) I found that he was an DJ by looking the return policy and his profile.

2) I found that he was an Real DJ , as he was buying lots of CD's ( Feedback history)

3) He had High resolution pictures.

4) Good feedback.

5) I had even use Google maps , and his address , and the satellite landed on a Villa  :D in Honolulu.

So as total ,  its not just one word or many, that could lead someone to have an successful "transaction".
Its more complex than that.
Even so, by my own opinion ,  you came close to the 70%  of correct buying tips,
and I like to congratulate you, even for that percentage.  :)

To All :

Generally on Ebay , some people "sellers" , they use several tactics , to gain trust ,
the most ridicules expression that I had spot,  was like  "comes from smoke free home" .
You could live in a low-end neighborhood , with 50 factories next door ,
and because you do not smoke a cigarette , the merchandise are smoke free,
and free of any contamination .

Any way , the used ones , always contain some sort of risk, its up to the buyers "talent or education or expertness ", to get the one who will be called as " safe bet ".

By the knowledge that I got until today , and have recorded it here,
about the specific Fluke 87 models  ....

They are specific reasons , to not buy anything older than the 87-5 .
1) The elastomer pad (soft contacts)  on the display , are an official flaw .. ( will you ever buy something with an flaw ? )

2) Any older than the 87-5 has missing specs ,  why someone to pay even the half price,
for something like that ..

3) Fluke has "silently" ( you have to search their white papers to find out)  update the rating of the Fuses ...  from 17KA breaking point to 20KA ... This theoretically , can cause the older Fuses to blow easier than the New ones....
Why no one on eBay or elsewhere , points out such details ??
For such expensive Fuses ,  as Buyer I demand to know such details.

Does anyone knows,  that on the Genuine cables of the 87-5  are stamped with an production Date possibly of the DMM it self  ?
So possibly ... if you get an DMM with out cables " as Is " , its an deliberately made move, so to loose track of the production date ?  or worst ... to not have an proof of the condition of the environment that the DMM was "living at"  .

For all those reasons , that I consider them as serious ones, I recommend nothing less than the 87-5 .
Fluke did the smart move to not officially recall all this products , so any expense as repair , goes to the poor one who will buy from ebay , an completely out of warranty product, because Fluke like so.  
And I am also poor , but only in my pocket .. Thanks God.   :D


Edit:
@saturation congrats for your DMM  :) ,  We have many of those in the place that I work,
recently one needed an new display,
and we found it on ebay ...   ;D
About accurate , it is one of the trusted ones.. Well done.

Ebay could easily turn from bless to curse , this is all that I am trying to point out.  ;)

 
« Last Edit: April 23, 2010, 10:42:38 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

alm

  • Guest
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2010, 09:36:48 pm »
2) Any older than the 87-5 has missing specs ,  why someone to pay even the half price,
for something like that ..
I don't understand. A quick search on the Fluke website showed me the user manual for the original 87, which seems to contain full specifications.

3) Fluke has "silently" ( you have to search their white papers to find out)  update the rating of the Fuses ...  from 17KA breaking point to 20KA ... This theoretically , can cause the older Fuses to blow easier than the New ones....
Why no one on eBay or elsewhere , points out such details ??
For such expensive Fuses ,  as Buyer I demand to know such details.
I'm sure this is the maximum interrupt rating, not the current at which it will blow (can't imagine a 17kA fuse in a non-industrial setting). 20kA fuses are slightly safer if you're dealing with CAT IV stuff. I don't see why the 17kA fuses would blow easier.

Does anyone knows,  that on the Genuine cables of the 87-5  are stamped with an production Date possibly of the DMM it self  ?
So possibly ... if you get an DMM with out cables " as Is " , its an deliberately made move, so to loose track of the production date ?  or worst ... to not have an proof of the condition of the environment that the DMM was "living at"  .
Or, more likely, they got damaged or lost. The 87V is offered in various kits with different sets of leads. The Fluke leads that I have on my bench (TL-71) don't have any visible date stamp.

For all those reasons , that I consider them as serious ones, I recommend nothing less than the 87-5 .
Fluke did the smart move to not officially recall all this products , so any expense as repair , goes to the poor one who will buy from ebay , an completely out of warranty product, because Fluke like so.  
In my opinion it depends on the price. A 87V is obviously newer and better, but I wouldn't mind an older 87/87-3 if it was cheap enough and working. The extra features of the 87V like higher CAT ratings and low-pass filter are fairly useless for non-industrial use.

I'm sure only a part of the units does exhibit this flaw, and it's not a safety issue, so I don't see why they'd have to issue a recall. It might be nice to extend warranty coverage for this issue, but it's quite possible that they did.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 3525
  • Country: gr
  • User is banned.
    • Honda AX-1 rebuild
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2010, 10:28:27 pm »
Quote
I don't understand. A quick search on the Fluke website showed me the user manual for the original 87, which seems to contain full specifications.

If you look today , for an Fluke 87 , the only official marketed are the 87-5 ..
So you will read the today specs ... and with those in mind you will decide getting one.
If you do not do your homework properly , you will end up with an older one , with lower specs .
Simple as that !!

Quote
I'm sure this is the maximum interrupt rating, not the current at which it will blow (can't imagine a 17kA fuse in a non-industrial setting). 20kA fuses are slightly safer if you're dealing with CAT IV stuff. I don't see why the 17kA fuses would blow easier.

Right now we have as marketed  Fuses, the  two types as 11A and the 440mA ..
The  11 Amperes one updated ... But externally remained the same !!
I had read somewhere that one small "b" added , as extra description about the change,
but its just words.

Quote
Or, more likely, they got damaged or lost. The 87V is offered in various kits with different sets of leads. The Fluke leads that I have on my bench (TL-71) don't have any visible date stamp.

The retail basic version , is what most people gets ... lets keep it simple.

Quote
In my opinion it depends on the price. A 87V is obviously newer and better, but I wouldn't mind an older 87/87-3 if it was cheap enough and working. The extra features of the 87V like higher CAT ratings and low-pass filter are fairly useless for non-industrial use.

I'm sure only a part of the units does exhibit this flaw, and it's not a safety issue, so I don't see why they'd have to issue a recall. It might be nice to extend warranty coverage for this issue, but it's quite possible that they did.

If thats the case , get an New Fluke 83 , why bother looking the 87 ?

About recall , they did nothing , and even from respect to their customers, they should had one,
and replace the known bad part , free of charge and to all customers , with or with out warranty.

They would had less reasons to worry about pissed off customers , or half knowledgeable Greeks to bark for their products ,  not to mention about their locked forum,  that they do not accepting your registration,  so to have control against the pissed off customers .. aka " fluke community  spamers " .

If any Fluke , likes to become an friendly trusted brand, its up their hand to change all those irritating tactics.
At list from the Taiwanese brands , I was aware of what to expect as warranty and after sales service.
From Fluke , I was probably be more optimistic than usual , that why I am acting that way.
I feel pain , and I act that way , because even if I got it as used , I was hopping, that I will get some respect with it , from the manufacturer.
They do not grasp , that the people who are involved with electronics repairs , are equal to them.
They probably believe that they are above all , and they acting like Gods or something !!    >:(  

At list the 87-5 its an successful product, and this fact works as an pill , That calms me down ,
and I start smiling again.  ;)  


edit:  local link, about the 87-5 accessories.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=359.0
« Last Edit: April 23, 2010, 11:11:55 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline switcher

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 75
  • Country: gb
 
The following users thanked this post: Marco1971

Offline switcher

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 75
  • Country: gb
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2010, 06:47:39 pm »
Wow, that old Fluke is still alive and working?  That model is over 30y old!

It looks like an 8060A, my 'dream' DMM, I could never afford back then.




I remember when these were in the RS catalogue, they were nearly £500-
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 3525
  • Country: gr
  • User is banned.
    • Honda AX-1 rebuild
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2010, 10:43:41 pm »
Horses mouth:-

Straight from the horse's mouth

Meaning

From the highest authority.

Origin


In horse racing circles tips on which horse is a likely winner circulate amongst punters. The most trusted authorities are considered to be those in closest touch with the recent form of the horse, i.e. stable lads, trainers etc. The notional 'from the horse's mouth' is supposed to indicate one step better than even that inner circle, i.e. the horse itself.

It is a 20th century phrase. The earliest printed version I can find of it is from the USA and clearly indicates the horseracing context - in the Syracuse Herald, May 1913:

    "I got a tip yesterday, and if it wasn't straight from the horse's mouth it was jolly well the next thing to it."


Kiriakos speaking : I am the rider ..   :)  

And when the horse says :  Fluke must balance the cost of holding an oversize parts inventory against the need to invest in developing new and better tools .

It translates ... profits to them, loss for you ...
The consumer always pays for the R&D ,  but you have to build first something so to get payed ... And not by getting money in advance by cutting as corners,
the best interest of your all ready customers !!  who had honor you with their trust !!  
 
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 10:49:56 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11938
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: I need to know the History of FLUKE 87 ( 1998 - 2010 )
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2010, 12:08:33 am »
Another very practical and useful improvement between the original and the III is the backlight was changed from a green LED to white, and is way brighter.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf