Author Topic: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!  (Read 10338 times)

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Online xrunner

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So the story is, I got an Agilent 54622D off Ebay, got it the other day and it works fine. I took the front panel off to do some cleaning and to treat the UV damaged brown plastic of the 3.5" floppy, and I noticed the knobs. See the knob at the left in the pic? It's the only original knob (for this model). I didn't realize it until I took off the front cover. Then I did some research and discovered that all the knobs but that one are the next gen knobs that Keysight uses on models like DSOX2002A. I don't have a clue who or why somebody would change the knobs out, and where they would have gotten them. The old knobs I think had a coating that went gooey from how that one knob looks. I like the newer knobs so I thought I'd see if I could order one more from Keysight.

I found the little matching knob on Keysight's parts site for $1.99. I thought (stupidly)  |O should be easy enough to order that. The story is though - the HELL I had to go through to order it. Pure bureaucratic nonsense.

So I found the knob which was orderable for $1.99. Cool I thought. I'll just create an account like so many other stores such as Target or what have you and I'll be on my way. Well I get to the part where it asks you your company name - not an optional field. So WTF am I supposed to do there? I didn't have a clue so I called Keysight and got a nice young man. I asked him if I had to be with a company to order a knob or any parts. He said no just use your name in the company field and it will all be OK". I said fine thanks bye.

The account was seemingly created and it said to wait for a "confirmation" email. I got that in a few minutes and it said to click on the link and wait for "approval" which could take 24 hours. Huh? Does Target wait for "approval". Is my money possibly not wanted by this company?  :-// I just want to buy a little plastic knob. Is all this really necessary? Whatever.

In a few more minutes I get back this email -

Quote
Thank you for registering with the Parts Online Store system.

Access to the Parts Online Store system requires that the email address used for registration be your company email address. We request this to help protect user privacy and insure that order information for your company remains confidential. It does not appear that your email address in your registration matches your company name therefore we are unable to finalize your registration.

User login: (my email was here)
Company: (my name was here)

Please register again using an email address from your company. Or, respond to this email with information that the email address you registered with is actually your company email address at which time we will re-evaluate your registration.  Alternatively, you can submit Feedback  if you would like more detail or believe there has been a mistake.

Sincerely,

Keysight Technologies

So I called the guy back and told him it didn't work. He was a little confused. I said what characters are in a company email address anyway? How does your computer know what a "company" email address is anyway? How does it know that my email address is not a company email address? I asked if I could just order the damn thing over the phone. He said OK and we completed the order over the phone.

The fun isn't over. Oh no.

Then I got this later in the day -

Quote
Dear (my name),

Thank you for choosing Keysight Technologies, the world’s premier test and measurement company. We are not able to complete your transaction until we receive the tax status for PO#(my name)/VISA.

IF YOUR ORDER IS TAXABLE:
You can reply to this email directly to accept all applicable taxes, or you can submit a change order to Keysight stating that the order should be taxed.

IF YOUR ORDER IS TAX EXEMPT:
Please reply to this email stating your tax exemption status and provide a valid Tax Exemption Certificate. Alternatively, you may also submit a change order to Keysight reflecting the correct tax status along with a valid Tax Exemption Certificate.

Single Use Tax Exemptions are acceptable, but require the single use exemption information (permit number, tax status, etc) to be clearly displayed on your Purchase Order.

blah blah blah it goes on and on I'll spare you the rest ...

At this point I'm so friggin pissed at this process I called back again and got another person. I said why is it sending me, an individual, this email? He said the system "probably" didn't know I was an individual. I said I just talked to a guy that completed my order over the phone - he clearly knew I was an individual. I did try to complete a registration process that has no clue that individuals can buy your products and buy parts they might need because it asks for a company name. If you sell to individuals, as I guess you do since the guy just sold me a plastic knob and I'm an individual, you know, they could ASK on that page if the person is an individual, you know, in an extra field ... ask the damn question in your registration! Gah!

But, what is the deal with email addresses anyway? What reason do they have to need to determine that my email address is NOT my company email address? Why does it have to match anything in particular? For that matter, why can't me, a person with money to spend, buy from you, a product that you sell - this knob for $1.99? I buy, you sell, and everybody goes home happy? Why the nightmarish ordering system registration process? He said he had heard of it being a problem for individuals and he "understood".

This folks is plain old Big Company bureaucracy for no good reason. We're talking about a $1.99 plastic knob ...  :wtf:

Supposedly it's on order now to arrive in 7 - 10 days because it's not in the U.S. at this time.

Hahahahahahaha ... Somebody get me a shot of whiskey.
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Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2017, 07:40:54 pm »
No whiskey here, X but I have some Grey Goose in the freezer :-+
"Heaven has been described as the place that once you get there all the dogs you ever loved run up to greet you."
 
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Online xrunner

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2017, 07:49:12 pm »
No whiskey here, X but I have some Grey Goose in the freezer :-+

Thanks!

You know, if the IT person that designed that registration process didn't want individuals to register, they could have just said this right there -

Keysight does not sell to individuals

Then, the poor slobs like me who wanted to buy plastic knobs would have been stopped before they got all flustered.

I need to PM Daniel from Keysight and link him this thread ...  :popcorn:
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Online jpanhalt

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2017, 07:56:30 pm »
It probably cost Keysight $20 to process your $2 order.   Plus the telephone calls and disparaging remarks.   Now, maybe you know why companies do not like to deal with individuals.  Liability is a big one in the US.

John
 
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Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2017, 08:00:02 pm »
Maybe PM Keysight_Daniel - maybe he'd send you one for free  ;)
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Online xrunner

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2017, 08:01:31 pm »
It probably cost Keysight $20 to process your $2 order.   Plus the telephone calls and disparaging remarks.   Now, maybe you know why companies do not like to deal with individuals.  Liability is a big one in the US.

John

 :palm:
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Offline steve30

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2017, 08:18:22 pm »
It probably cost Keysight $20 to process your $2 order.   Plus the telephone calls and disparaging remarks.   Now, maybe you know why companies do not like to deal with individuals.  Liability is a big one in the US.

John

It may have cost them $20 to process such an order, but then, a big business might have wanted to order a knob for a broken scope, or a self employed repairman/small shop might have wanted to order a replacement knob for a broken scope. How would they tell the difference?
 
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Offline IanB

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2017, 08:24:31 pm »
It probably cost Keysight $20 to process your $2 order.   Plus the telephone calls and disparaging remarks.   Now, maybe you know why companies do not like to deal with individuals.  Liability is a big one in the US.

It wouldn't cost them $20 to process such an order if they didn't have such a ridiculous amount of red tape surrounding the order process. All they had to do was take the credit card details, pop the part in a padded envelope and mail it. For such a low value part they  should really have just sent it for free as a goodwill gesture.
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Offline hendorog

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2017, 09:08:05 pm »
This has been discussed here before:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/what's-the-skinny-on-purchasing-parts-from-keysight/msg1136105/#msg1136105
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/can't-order-parts-online-from-keysight/msg680088/#msg680088

It's a classic corporate stuff-up. Don't blame the software people, this one is management.

Maybe the solution is to fake them out? Imply that you are ordering something very expensive, then cancel the order and order the knobs instead  >:D

 
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Online Kjelt

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2017, 09:48:48 pm »
Keysight should just sent you the knob, end of story.
Here is my story and a good example for other companies:

My Delta powersupply knob of the potentiometer was broken.
I sent them an email if I could buy such a knob with a picture.
They sent me an email back: " unfortunately that knob is obsolete, but we will sent you two new ones so you can replace them both." Two days later I received them free of charge. I thanked them and asked why not to sent a bill. They said that creating an account and sending a bill would cost them more then just sending two knobs.
That is how you treat your customers right and think cleverly about the consequences of any action.
 
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Online xrunner

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2017, 10:11:26 pm »
Now, maybe you know why companies do not like to deal with individuals.  Liability is a big one in the US.

John

Really?

Quote
companies do not like to deal with individuals

Wow. I swear just the other day I went into a big company - Wal Mart, and it seemed like they enjoyed dealing with me as an individual. Maybe they were just being nice long enough to get me outta the store? But there were a lot of other individuals in there, at least that's what it looked like. But I could be wrong - maybe they were all with companies.  :-//

I don't know, maybe I should test them out, you know buy a Payday candy bar and see if they sell me just that. What would they do, give me a lecture on how much it cost to stock little items. Perhaps put a minimum order amount like $20 worth of candy before I can buy it? I could even try that on their web store. I bet I can buy a minimum of what ever thing I want, as long as I pay to have it shipped. I bet I can. Because you know, it's already in the warehouse, so if I pay for it (which they make a profit on) and pay for the shipping, it's all good.

I go into companies all the time though and it sure seems like they want me there and appreciate my business as an individual. Car dealerships, grocery stores, tool stores, gas stations, hobby shops, banks, brick & mortar and online. I could go on but as far as I can tell (and they could be fooling me) they all seem to like dealing with individuals.

Quote
companies do not like to deal with individuals

Hmm. Matter of fact, (even being the lowly slime that I am - an individual) I've even dealt with major test equipment companies directly, such as Rigol, as an individual, and they even seemed to appreciate it. Matter of fact, Rigol made me a really good deal on a newer function generator because they had certain design flaws in the model I had. This dealing with them directly as an individual person - you know - a customer. Go figure.

Quote
companies do not like to deal with individuals

So, I think that's a very interesting statement. It's a good thing companies do deal with individuals, because we'd all probably starve to death otherwise.  :phew:
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Online jpanhalt

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2017, 10:12:41 pm »
 :palm:
 

Online TK

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2017, 10:51:38 pm »
The knob you want to replace is the intensity grading control, I think it is different from the other knobs.  All the other knobs connect directly to the rotary encoder or pot shaft, this knob connects to a plastic shaft that is 4-5 inches long, very delicate and when you remove the knob, the whole knob-shaft assembly comes off. 

I think that is why the previous owner changed all the knobs but the one on the left.
 

Online xrunner

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2017, 10:56:55 pm »
The knob you want to replace is the intensity grading control, I think it is different from the other knobs.  All the other knobs connect directly to the rotary encoder or pot shaft, this knob connects to a plastic shaft that is 4-5 inches long, very delicate and when you remove the knob, the whole knob-shaft assembly comes off. 

I think that is why the previous owner changed all the knobs but the one on the left.

No, that's incorrect. I've already tried swapping knobs on that shaft. The new knobs work just peachy keen. But thank you for your concern.

:palm:

Well, what are you waiting for jpanhalt? Go ahead and give us the long version of it all. Please explain to us why

"companies do not like to deal with individuals"

I'm dying to know the full story. What was that old quote from some tabloid? Oh it was "Enquiring minds want to know"
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Online jpanhalt

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2017, 11:03:39 pm »


:palm:

Well, what are you waiting for jpanhalt? Go ahead and give us the long version of it all. Please explain to us why

"companies do not like to deal with individuals"

I'm dying to know the full story. What was that old quote from some tabloid? Oh it was "Enquiring minds want to know"

I was just quoting your previous response.   I thought the meaning would be clear, at least to you.

Frankly, you are out of touch when you equate a Walmart customer to an corporate customer.  Corporate customers do not behave in such a childish manner as your response to Keysight.  From my perspective and based only on what you wrote, Keysight bent over backwards to satisfy you, and you responded by initiating this hate thread.   Next time, get your knobs at Walmart.

John
 

Online rdl

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2017, 11:08:51 pm »
It seems like a company such as Keysight would have a sizable inventory of replacement parts and probably moves a fairly large number them per year. You'd think they would have a less clunky system in place to deal with it.
 

Offline JoeN

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2017, 11:20:26 pm »
I still love Keysight.  I know this can happen.  I've had the same thing happen with appliance companies and gun companies and other manufacturers when you need a part because something broke on you and you are a fixit yourself type person.  This problem is not unique to Keysight, far from it.
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Online xrunner

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2017, 11:22:36 pm »
I was just quoting your previous response.   I thought the meaning would be clear, at least to you

After my response I explained why Keysight's parts ordering process was broken, overly bureaucratic, and illogical very clearly. It's obvious to anyone but you it seems.

Quote
Frankly, you are out of touch when you equate a Walmart customer to an corporate customer.  Corporate customers do not behave in such a childish manner as your response to Keysight.  From my perspective and based only on what you wrote, Keysight bent over backwards to satisfy you, and you responded by initiating this hate thread.   Next time, get your knobs at Walmart.

John

Not accepted I'm afraid. Keysight will sell you or I a multi-thousand dollar piece of gear with no problem. One oscilloscope. One DMM. One spectrum analyzer. To one individual.

Just like Wal Mart will sell an individual one candy bar or one quart of milk. There is no difference whatsoever in the fundamental transaction. So, my complaint and explanation is hardly "childish". You still haven't explained why

"companies do not like to deal with individuals"

And no, I won't get my Keysight knobs at Wal Mart because they do not make them or sell them. Keysight is the company that does, and they do sell to individuals individual knobs if you make a phone call (which apparently you don't like individuals doing). The issue is that their registration and further process of ordering for an individual is broken and illogical.

But I'll be here if you care to muster a response to your statement -

"companies do not like to deal with individuals"

It's very interesting your attitude in this. I have to wonder what motivates your disgust towards individuals that need to deal with companies that they need to buy from. I guess we'll never know. :(
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2017, 01:02:54 am »
@henrodog: Thanks for looking up and posting those threads. I was about to do the same until I saw your post.

@xrunner: At least this time the part you needed was available for sale (unlike the VFD you needed last year). I and others have felt your pain (and posted about it) when trying to get parts from HPAK. However, still others have had very good results. It depends on many factors, only a few of which I've figured out thus far.

As you can see from some of my experiences, below, the process can vary quite a bit:

1. DMM repair/replace (under warranty): Long process and lots of back and forth via phone and emails to explain and convince Keysight what the problem was as they apparently hadn't encountered it before. After RMA was approved, I had to pay out of pocket to ship the DMM back to them. Only then was a replacement issued.

2. DMM repair/replace (not under warranty): Known problem. Quick and easy process. Submitted form online and received replacement. No out of pocket costs. No fuss. :-+

3. Parts for several power supplies (not under warranty): Known problem covered by an old Agilent service note. Since no process existed for ordering/tracking/handling the parts replacement from the service note, it took many follow ups via phone and email over the course of several months to get it resolved. Eventually, I got the parts shipped to me. No out of pocket costs. Bonus: Keysight offered to send an engineer to do the replacement on site for me. 8) I opted out as it was an easy DIY task.
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Offline TheSteve

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2017, 01:08:33 am »
Ordering parts from Canada is easy - it is telephone only though. The only catch is you gotta spend 100 bucks. So while it is a pain in the US it would have hurt more if that knob had been 100 bucks...
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Offline Someone

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2017, 01:45:28 am »
Not accepted I'm afraid. Keysight will sell you or I a multi-thousand dollar piece of gear with no problem. One oscilloscope. One DMM. One spectrum analyzer. To one individual.
A lot of the "small" sales like that will go through a distributor, not directly. Your distributor should be able to order parts easily for you as they are already setup and routinely order shipments. Or be happy you're in the US and offered direct access to the parts sales unlike the rest of the world.
 

Online rdl

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2017, 01:51:37 am »
Ordering parts from Canada is easy - it is telephone only though. The only catch is you gotta spend 100 bucks. So while it is a pain in the US it would have hurt more if that knob had been 100 bucks...

That's normally not so hard to do. They wanted almost $15 apiece for replacement binding posts to fix my E3610A (thanks, but no). I'm actually surprised this knob was only $1.99
 

Offline hendorog

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2017, 01:55:01 am »
Not accepted I'm afraid. Keysight will sell you or I a multi-thousand dollar piece of gear with no problem. One oscilloscope. One DMM. One spectrum analyzer. To one individual.
A lot of the "small" sales like that will go through a distributor, not directly. Your distributor should be able to order parts easily for you as they are already setup and routinely order shipments. Or be happy you're in the US and offered direct access to the parts sales unlike the rest of the world.

Which means you get to chuck the price listed by Keysight out the window and brace yourself for a wallet thrashing from the distributor.

 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2017, 02:06:12 am »
They wanted almost $15 apiece for replacement binding posts to fix my E3610A (thanks, but no). I'm actually surprised this knob was only $1.99

Yeah, some of the parts are really pricey. Anecdotally, it appears that age and/or scarcity has a lot to do with it. It's as if the parts accumulate rent while in the warehouse. ^-^
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Offline blueskull

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Re: I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2017, 02:15:57 am »
Definitely ask Daniel. When I discovered my scope's logic pod has cracked plastic out of box, he sent me an older version of that logic pod for free, and that's a $755 part!
Also, as I shared this story a few times, KS actually fixed my previous MSOX3104A without knowing it's in warranty (it was in warranty, but their database discrepancy missed my warranty info due to it's a prime refurb unit. They didn't know it's in warranty until they fixed it and called me for shipping cost payment. They waived the shipping fee after they pulled its warranty record, of course).
 


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