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| If the electrical energy is outside the wires, how is insulation protecting us? |
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| ejeffrey:
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 03, 2022, 06:29:18 pm --- --- Quote from: aetherist on April 03, 2022, 06:26:04 am ---The aether need not be called the luminiferous aether -- the aether gives us everything we see & feel. It is a gravitational aether, it is an electric aether, it is a magnetic aether. It is simply the aether. --- End quote --- Yeah, so it's 42. But I'm curious about what this "theory" brings to the table, apart from saying that it's everywhere and is everything. --- End quote --- I did some internet diving into this particular conspiracy theory. It explains after the fact every microscopic experimental discrepancy, error, or drift with a quantity that can take on any magnitude and direction at any point in time and so while in principle it is testable (per the original Michelson morely experiment aka MMX, since all experiments have errors and uncertainty and there is no lower bound for the aether velocity at your location no experiment can be inconsistent with it. It also claims without justification that you need to do the experiment in specific ways such as in vacuum which makes no difference but reduces the number of people who can practically do the experiment dramatically and those that could largely have better things to do. More complex results such as the operation of GPS or particle accelerators are hand waved away as well explained by aether theory but without any actual quantitative theory that can predict any of them. |
| aetherist:
--- Quote from: ejeffrey on April 03, 2022, 11:23:22 pm --- --- Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 03, 2022, 06:29:18 pm --- --- Quote from: aetherist on April 03, 2022, 06:26:04 am ---The aether need not be called the luminiferous aether -- the aether gives us everything we see & feel. It is a gravitational aether, it is an electric aether, it is a magnetic aether. It is simply the aether. --- End quote --- Yeah, so it's 42. But I'm curious about what this "theory" brings to the table, apart from saying that it's everywhere and is everything. --- End quote --- I did some internet diving into this particular conspiracy theory. It explains after the fact every microscopic experimental discrepancy, error, or drift with a quantity that can take on any magnitude and direction at any point in time and so while in principle it is testable (per the original Michelson morely experiment aka MMX, since all experiments have errors and uncertainty and there is no lower bound for the aether velocity at your location no experiment can be inconsistent with it. It also claims without justification that you need to do the experiment in specific ways such as in vacuum which makes no difference but reduces the number of people who can practically do the experiment dramatically and those that could largely have better things to do. More complex results such as the operation of GPS or particle accelerators are hand waved away as well explained by aether theory but without any actual quantitative theory that can predict any of them. --- End quote --- It is true that a perfectly good MMX can get a null result, if the aetherwind is vertical at that location at that time, koz MMXs are usually done in the horizontal. Likewise, at some locations on Earth (near the equator) the horizontal component of the aetherwind will have its full value, approx 500 km/s. Prof Reg Cahill (Adelaide) was the first to publish the correct calibration for MMXs, & he showed that they had to be in gas mode, ie vacuum mode gave a null result (or very nearly null). I am the world authority on some aspects of spurious signals & noise & error in MMXs. And i can set u straight on any such aspect if u want. GPS proves that STR is wrong. I am not sure whether GPS supports aetherwind (i can't remember). I don’t know of any arguments involving particle accelerators & aether or aetherwind. |
| typoknig:
--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on April 03, 2022, 09:40:39 pm --- --- Quote from: typoknig on April 03, 2022, 05:51:47 am ---If this is true then it just seems the videos are a bit over zealous with their insinuation that all energy is outside the wire. --- End quote --- The video is not insinuating. The energy that is transferred to the load IS outside the wires. If it were inside the wires, it would be dissipated by them. --- End quote --- Ah, a post about the subject of the thread... cool ;) This response though seems to miss the head scratching aspect of my original question; if the "energy" is outside the wire why doesn't it affect us until we touch the bare wire? I'm also assuming when you say "outside the wire" you mean really outside (i.e. outside the insulation) and not just on the outside of the wire (i.e. on its surface). |
| T3sl4co1l:
Well like I said, it does, just you can't notice it. Also that it's mostly outside you, as well as the wire. A wavefront propagating through air, will mostly be reflected off the high dielectric constant of your skin. To microwaves (we're talking ~ps scale risetimes here), you look like the Silver Surfer. Or like a balloon of, well, mostly water. ;D And what's left, that does penetrate, dissipates quickly, absorbed as heat -- no neuronal activation, there's many orders of magnitude not enough charge deposited to activate them. The only thing that does, is either an intense enough beam to cause physical heating (active denial system for example), or an intense enough impulse that, as the charges slowly settle down, you do feel something (a static spark). For wavefronts that change more slowly, the penetration depth is greater of course, but also your body is more blobby, fingers and hands becoming less distinct as the wavelength becomes longer than their dimensions. (It takes ~THz to resolve fingerprints.) Or, for many waves superimposed, the ratio of electric and magnetic fields can become proportionally farther out of whack, and this field strength need not come at any power cost, i.e. it is a reactive effect only. At mains frequency for example, compared to a nanosecond wavefront, there's effectively billions of waves superimposed, most of them cancelling out, and that's why you don't feel anything. Tim |
| TimFox:
Again, a human body can be "shocked" when current flows through it. In a simple situation, the victim's hand touches a wire that has a substantial voltage with respect to ground, and the victim's body is "grounded" elsewhere, possibly by standing in a puddle of water. The current that flows through the body then determines the severity of the shock: a low current is unpleasant and can induce an involuntary muscle reaction, a higher current is lethal because it interferes with proper heart function. For a given voltage, the current depends on the total impedance through the circuit. At DC, with an insulated wire, the insulation of the wire should be extremely large with respect to the resistance through the body. At 60 Hz AC, the capacitance through the insulation might be important. At RF, the displacement current through the capacitance increases. Homework assignment: calculate the insulation impedance at DC and 60 Hz for a simplified model where the insulation is modeled as a coaxial annular cylinder about 10 cm long (approximate width of a hand), with typical dimensions on an AWG12 wire with PVC insulation. For the body resistance, that depends on how wet the skin is, since the resistance of dry skin is much larger than the resistance through the wetter interior of the body (roughly, "normal" saline). |
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