Author Topic: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...  (Read 7087 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online EPAIIITopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1165
  • Country: us
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #50 on: January 01, 2024, 09:22:44 am »
OK, semi serious suggestion for charging while driving.

Have TWO batteries. One in the vehicle and one in a trailer. Solar cell array on the trailer charges one battery while the other is used to power the vehicle. Switch back and forth even while moving.

Of course, you could just make the vehicle larger and have everything on/in it.

Or make the vehicle smaller and the trailer larger and have both batteries and the solar array in it.

I made many trips along I-10 in Texas and across to the West Coast. The sun is a beast along that route so this should work like a charm most of the time.



Build a range extender

There is another one now where this guy swapped in a diesel engine... 

I'm pretty sure this is bullshit, and he's just driving around a normal tesla with an engine running in the back doing absolutely nothing useful (except getting youtube views).  They make zero mention of how this engine is putting energy into the car.  It's not mechanically coupled to the wheels.  And they don't have any electronics to boost a generators voltage up to pack voltage (400V) to charge the pack.  I'm pretty sure the Tesla BMS would lose its shit if it detected the battery charging while the vehicle was moving anyway.
You don't need 400V to charge the pack, you only need household 240V.

I agree somewhat about the Tesla computer preventing simultaneous charging and movement, I realise that Tesla hackers have done all sorts of weird system bypasses, so charging whilst moving is not out of the realm of possibilities.
Paul A.  -   SE Texas
And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
You will find that it has discrete steps.
 

Online EPAIIITopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1165
  • Country: us
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #51 on: January 01, 2024, 09:31:25 am »
Electric trains and the street cars I showed above run on steel rails, which are conductors. And those conductive rails cost absolutely nothing extra.
For a rubber wheeled vehicle, you can have the return current returning back to a second overhead wire, though, it obviously presents a challenge in aligning the pantograph with the two wires.




Those old New Orleans electric busses had the panto-graph problem solved over 70 years ago. They just used a pair of shoes with grooves or perhaps rollers in them. The overhead wires just pulled the panto-graph left or right to follow them as the bus ran along. It could be a whole lane over from where the wires were with no problems with the panto-graph tracking properly. It was a rare instance where the panto-graph jumped off the wires.

After watching the video, I have to wonder what's to stop someone in a car from having a panto-graph and stealing free power? Would the police have to ticket free-loaders?

Or would the power just be available for everyone with no charge? Wouldn't that tick off the people who think they are going to become billionaires with electric vehicles. But free power for all would be true socialism instead of the oppressive type that most socialist leaders want to impose, wouldn't it?

Now all we need is a way to get the cars for free too. And f.. the would-be billionaires. There could be some fun in this after all.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2024, 09:45:18 am by EPAIII »
Paul A.  -   SE Texas
And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
You will find that it has discrete steps.
 

Offline jonovid

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1546
  • Country: au
    • JONOVID
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #52 on: January 01, 2024, 09:48:17 am »
wait 1 or 2 hrs for a recharge if you have a diesel generator in the trunk. or call a tow truck. if your still got cell phone coverage or a working CB radio?
 as always be prepared for anything, do not leave home on a long journey without fully charged batteries. go figure.
Hobbyist with a basic knowledge of electronics
 

Online Andy Chee

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1382
  • Country: au
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #53 on: January 01, 2024, 09:53:54 am »
After watching the video, I have to wonder what's to stop someone in a car from having a panto-graph and stealing free power? Would the police have to ticket free-loaders?
It's no stretch of the imagination that they would have number plate recognition cameras along the route to catch people stealing electricity.
 

Offline Smokey

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3046
  • Country: us
  • Not An Expert
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2024, 10:29:12 am »
Build a range extender

There is another one now where this guy swapped in a diesel engine... 

I'm pretty sure this is bullshit, and he's just driving around a normal tesla with an engine running in the back doing absolutely nothing useful (except getting youtube views).  They make zero mention of how this engine is putting energy into the car.  It's not mechanically coupled to the wheels.  And they don't have any electronics to boost a generators voltage up to pack voltage (400V) to charge the pack.  I'm pretty sure the Tesla BMS would lose its shit if it detected the battery charging while the vehicle was moving anyway.
You don't need 400V to charge the pack, you only need household 240V.

I agree somewhat about the Tesla computer preventing simultaneous charging and movement, I realise that Tesla hackers have done all sorts of weird system bypasses, so charging whilst moving is not out of the realm of possibilities.

If your battery is at 400V then you need to make over 400V somehow to charge that battery (yes I know the battery is already fully charged at 400V, but the same holds for 350V, or 300V).  The 240V(AC) from your house gets rectified and boosted/bucked by the internal charger so it charges at the right current.  If that charger refuses to close the charge contactors, like for instance if the vehicle is on or moving, then you can plug whatever you want in but it's not getting into the battery.
Yes, people have done some wacky stuff hacking teslas, but that guy in the video looks and sounds like an idiot.
 

Online Andy Chee

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1382
  • Country: au
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #55 on: January 01, 2024, 10:46:23 am »
Build a range extender
They make zero mention of how this engine is putting energy into the car.  It's not mechanically coupled to the wheels.  And they don't have any electronics to boost a generators voltage up to pack voltage (400V) to charge the pack. 
You don't need 400V to charge the pack, you only need household 240V.

If your battery is at 400V then you need to make over 400V somehow to charge that battery (yes I know the battery is already fully charged at 400V, but the same holds for 350V, or 300V).  The 240V(AC) from your house gets rectified and boosted/bucked by the internal charger so it charges at the right current.  If that charger refuses to close the charge contactors, like for instance if the vehicle is on or moving, then you can plug whatever you want in but it's not getting into the battery.
Yes, people have done some wacky stuff hacking teslas, but that guy in the video looks and sounds like an idiot.
If real, I would've presumed that the generator output 240VAC was connected to the internal charger, NOT directly to the battery pack.
 

Offline Smokey

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3046
  • Country: us
  • Not An Expert
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #56 on: January 01, 2024, 11:04:36 am »
Build a range extender
They make zero mention of how this engine is putting energy into the car.  It's not mechanically coupled to the wheels.  And they don't have any electronics to boost a generators voltage up to pack voltage (400V) to charge the pack. 
You don't need 400V to charge the pack, you only need household 240V.

If your battery is at 400V then you need to make over 400V somehow to charge that battery (yes I know the battery is already fully charged at 400V, but the same holds for 350V, or 300V).  The 240V(AC) from your house gets rectified and boosted/bucked by the internal charger so it charges at the right current.  If that charger refuses to close the charge contactors, like for instance if the vehicle is on or moving, then you can plug whatever you want in but it's not getting into the battery.
Yes, people have done some wacky stuff hacking teslas, but that guy in the video looks and sounds like an idiot.
If real, I would've presumed that the generator output 240VAC was connected to the internal charger, NOT directly to the battery pack.

Yes, I get that. 
https://teslastir.com/can-you-charge-a-tesla-while-driving/
Quote
Can You Charge a Tesla With a Generator While Driving?
No, you cannot charge a Tesla with a generator while driving. As I have mentioned already, the Tesla won't let you shift into Drive mode with a charging cable plugged in.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/drive-off-while-still-plugged-in.10785/

So the best this dude did was park his car and level 1 charge off a generator .... forever.
 

Offline themadhippy

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3266
  • Country: gb
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #57 on: January 01, 2024, 01:44:11 pm »
Ive got it , solar sunroofs, this time next year i'll be a millionaire.
 

Offline jmelson

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2852
  • Country: us
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2024, 04:53:23 pm »
As people discover, petrol stations (mostly) rely on the grid for pumping and/or selling fuel. So either way so either way its supply your own or go without.
We had a tornado in the area some years ago, it took out a BUNCH of power poles.  We had to go up there to help some friends, and noticed a gas station was open, and doing "land office" business.  They had ripped their power panel apart and tied in a gas (or Diesel)  generator to run the pumps and back office systems so people could pay with a card.
Jon
 

Offline .RC.

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 304
  • Country: au
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2024, 04:13:22 am »
A crazy thought, but why not carry a turbo encabulator in the boot and charge the car from that?
 
The following users thanked this post: SiliconWizard

Online EPAIIITopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1165
  • Country: us
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #60 on: January 02, 2024, 10:51:52 am »
You obviously don't have a devious mind. A simple splash of mud takes care of license plate ID. If you get stopped, "Gosh officer, I didn't know that. I will clean it at the next charging station."



After watching the video, I have to wonder what's to stop someone in a car from having a panto-graph and stealing free power? Would the police have to ticket free-loaders?
It's no stretch of the imagination that they would have number plate recognition cameras along the route to catch people stealing electricity.
Paul A.  -   SE Texas
And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
You will find that it has discrete steps.
 

Online EPAIIITopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1165
  • Country: us
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #61 on: January 02, 2024, 10:56:46 am »
Build a range extender

There is another one now where this guy swapped in a diesel engine... 

I'm pretty sure this is bullshit, and he's just driving around a normal tesla with an engine running in the back doing absolutely nothing useful (except getting youtube views).  They make zero mention of how this engine is putting energy into the car.  It's not mechanically coupled to the wheels.  And they don't have any electronics to boost a generators voltage up to pack voltage (400V) to charge the pack.  I'm pretty sure the Tesla BMS would lose its shit if it detected the battery charging while the vehicle was moving anyway.
You don't need 400V to charge the pack, you only need household 240V.

I agree somewhat about the Tesla computer preventing simultaneous charging and movement, I realise that Tesla hackers have done all sorts of weird system bypasses, so charging whilst moving is not out of the realm of possibilities.

If your battery is at 400V then you need to make over 400V somehow to charge that battery (yes I know the battery is already fully charged at 400V, but the same holds for 350V, or 300V).  The 240V(AC) from your house gets rectified and boosted/bucked by the internal charger so it charges at the right current.  If that charger refuses to close the charge contactors, like for instance if the vehicle is on or moving, then you can plug whatever you want in but it's not getting into the battery.
Yes, people have done some wacky stuff hacking teslas, but that guy in the video looks and sounds like an idiot.


Well correct me if I am wrong, but UPS devices have been functioning with pass through mode for decades now. The wall power charges the cells and the cells power an inverter that then powers the equipment, like a computer. If the commercial power fails the inverter and equipment never even sees a blip.

They charge most of the time and power the equipment all of the time. No down time for charging. No reason why a vehicle battery can not operate the same way.
Paul A.  -   SE Texas
And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
You will find that it has discrete steps.
 

Online Andy Chee

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1382
  • Country: au
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #62 on: January 02, 2024, 12:07:57 pm »
You obviously don't have a devious mind. A simple splash of mud takes care of license plate ID. If you get stopped, "Gosh officer, I didn't know that. I will clean it at the next charging station."
You have no idea how authoritarian our police can be!  They will ticket you for having dirty number plates!  Ignorance is no excuse!
 

Online Siwastaja

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9338
  • Country: fi
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #63 on: January 02, 2024, 06:34:42 pm »
There is no fundamental technical problem charging using the on-board AC charger while driving. It is just a rare enough use case with large enough consequences if it doesn't go right that for liability reasons, vehicle manufacturer has to prevent it. Doing it right and safely would be a huge task. If I were to design these vehicles, I would leave a simple-to-find backdoor so that enthusiasts can find it and share how to disable the interlock. (But not too trivial to find, so that the responsibility is clearly on user.)
 

Online Andy Chee

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1382
  • Country: au
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #64 on: January 02, 2024, 07:05:58 pm »
There is no fundamental technical problem charging using the on-board AC charger while driving.
I'd say the problem with charging while driving, is getting a practical amount of charge into the vehicle whilst driving.

For example, a household 2kW Level 1 charger will only add about 10km of range per hour of charging.  An 11kW Level 2 charger would add about 60km of range per hour of charging.  And then there's 100kW Level 3 chargers!

There's a big difference between a 2kW generator and a 3-phase 11kW generator, and attempting to shoehorn the latter into the back of a Tesla would be an entertaining, if pointless engineering challenge!
 
The following users thanked this post: Someone

Offline .RC.

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 304
  • Country: au
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #65 on: January 02, 2024, 08:25:41 pm »
There is no fundamental technical problem charging using the on-board AC charger while driving.

It is not even a new idea.  There are countless videos of ICE cars driving around by women with a fuel filler handpiece and attached hose hanging out the cars fuel tank spout.
 

Offline pickle9000

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2439
  • Country: ca
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #66 on: January 02, 2024, 09:29:30 pm »
There is no fundamental technical problem charging using the on-board AC charger while driving.
I'd say the problem with charging while driving, is getting a practical amount of charge into the vehicle whilst driving.

For example, a household 2kW Level 1 charger will only add about 10km of range per hour of charging.  An 11kW Level 2 charger would add about 60km of range per hour of charging.  And then there's 100kW Level 3 chargers!

There's a big difference between a 2kW generator and a 3-phase 11kW generator, and attempting to shoehorn the latter into the back of a Tesla would be an entertaining, if pointless engineering challenge!

There are savings to be had.  Lets say you design a hybrid electric drive, smallish battery, smallish charger. Compared to a regular ICE, Regen, No transmission, smaller motor to offset the weight of the batteries. In a regular ICE vehicle the power plant has to account for the worst case situation driving up hill loaded.
 

Offline Halcyon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6126
  • Country: au
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #67 on: January 02, 2024, 10:43:31 pm »
Well correct me if I am wrong, but UPS devices have been functioning with pass through mode for decades now. The wall power charges the cells and the cells power an inverter that then powers the equipment, like a computer. If the commercial power fails the inverter and equipment never even sees a blip.

They charge most of the time and power the equipment all of the time. No down time for charging. No reason why a vehicle battery can not operate the same way.

Only the online models operate that way. Most (all?) cheaper and smaller capacity UPSs are generally the line-interactive type. The batteries are only brought into the circuit when mains is out of spec.
 

Offline jonovid

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1546
  • Country: au
    • JONOVID
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #68 on: January 02, 2024, 11:15:01 pm »
smells like business opportunities in selling compact lightweight liquid fuel generators for the trunk of EV's on long interstate journeys.
-profiting from EV range anxiety. a 1 or 2 hr emergency suitcase style of recharge generator with an EV recharge adapter . 
the engineering challenge is in safety removing the gasoline smell from the generator unit when not in use.  :popcorn:
Hobbyist with a basic knowledge of electronics
 

Online Andy Chee

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1382
  • Country: au
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #69 on: January 03, 2024, 03:48:02 am »
There is no fundamental technical problem charging using the on-board AC charger while driving.
I'd say the problem with charging while driving, is getting a practical amount of charge into the vehicle whilst driving.

For example, a household 2kW Level 1 charger will only add about 10km of range per hour of charging.  An 11kW Level 2 charger would add about 60km of range per hour of charging.  And then there's 100kW Level 3 chargers!

There's a big difference between a 2kW generator and a 3-phase 11kW generator, and attempting to shoehorn the latter into the back of a Tesla would be an entertaining, if pointless engineering challenge!

There are savings to be had.  Lets say you design a hybrid electric drive, smallish battery, smallish charger. Compared to a regular ICE, Regen, No transmission, smaller motor to offset the weight of the batteries. In a regular ICE vehicle the power plant has to account for the worst case situation driving up hill loaded.
The savings are imaginary.  The effort and expense spent on re-engineering an existing EV into a series hybrid, would be better spent on purchasing a hybrid vehicle in the first place!

That being said, personal vehicle preference and customisation does come into play here.  If your dream vehicle model only comes in EV version and you really need a hybrid for practical purposes, then a custom conversion could be an option.  After all, there are performance modifications and engine swaps done with ICE all the time, so why not EV and hybrids?
 

Online Siwastaja

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9338
  • Country: fi
Re: If Your Electric Car Runs Out of Power on the Highway ...
« Reply #70 on: January 03, 2024, 08:43:37 am »
I'd say the problem with charging while driving, is getting a practical amount of charge into the vehicle whilst driving.

For example, a household 2kW Level 1 charger will only add about 10km of range per hour of charging.

Well, in summer conditions for a moderately good car driving at say 50km/h, consumption is closer to 100Wh/km than 200, so a 2kW mini genset could sustain nearly 20km/h average speed, if it runs 100% of the time. However, don't forget the contribution of the battery. If you know beforehand that you are not going to make it, and start the generator already at, say, 50% SoC, and start conserving energy for the last two hours of drive on the battery, then you have already charged 40km worth of extra range. So it becomes nearly manageable way to extend the range in unusual conditions - e.g. an unexpected trip to some area with insufficient charging network. This all totally falls apart if you have to stop to charge at that measly 2kW, then your average speed will drop even below that 20km/h.

Of course, this is all unnecessary speculation. Nearly no one would realistically ever do this.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf