Author Topic: Illegal to order from Chinese fabs, export control?  (Read 3851 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Gregg

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1156
  • Country: us
Re: Illegal to order from Chinese fabs, export control?
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2022, 12:53:00 am »
If the package arrived via US Postal Service and depending on how it was addressed, you may be able to remind the brain dead enforcer of self made rules that it is a federal offense to tamper with the mail. 
It is an endemic problem with security 'professionals' that they are often incapable or too lazy to hold a real job.  And nobody is watching the watchers.
 

Offline bdunham7

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8175
  • Country: us
Re: Illegal to order from Chinese fabs, export control?
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2022, 01:21:29 am »
If the package arrived via US Postal Service and depending on how it was addressed, you may be able to remind the brain dead enforcer of self made rules that it is a federal offense to tamper with the mail. 

You guys making this claim are just entirely wrong about the law regarding mail.  The only exception would be if it were addressed to the individual and sent by restricted certified mail, in which case the postman would be at fault for tendering the package to anyone but the named individual.  I'm sure that didn't happen here, so once the package is delivered to the address or institution, it isn't US Mail anymore and the university policies, local laws and such would be the only regulations that would apply.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline LaserSteve

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1354
  • Country: us
Re: Illegal to order from Chinese fabs, export control?
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2022, 06:55:40 pm »
I work at a research university.  Unless the money was Government Funded Research  with restrictions, or you sent an ITAR restricted file to China, then what did you do wrong?.  If your research was sensitive or higher you would have been briefed by your Prof or a Designated Information Security Officer.   You'd also know you made a mistake, as the training would have been thorough. 


If another Prof in the department was doing ITAR or Secure research and the compliance officer nailed you for it, that should have been briefed to your PI, but not you.

Take this problem to your PI, and let him/her/it take it to the department head or similar position.  Odds are your Research Dean or VP of Research needs to know about this as well.

Did you have them stuff the parts, program the chips,  or send any supporting documentation on the project?  (Yes/No)

Well above your paygrade.   That and someone is an Idiot, Improperly Briefed,  Control Freak or Newbie.

 If you did not send restricted data, then how are your boards fruit of a poisonous  tree? 

Leave US Customs out of the discussion. They do not check EVERYTHING that comes in for compliance.  They have target lists, and I'm pretty sure "custom pcb" is not one of them.   There is a concept in justice called Mens Rea, versus Actus Reus.  It is difficult but not impossible to violate the law if you had no intent of doing so.

If this person
seized   or opened your package without your PI present  and is a non-scientist, for a variety of reasons that needs to be addressed too.  Especially if photosensitive, ESD sensitive, a chemical, flammable, oxidizer or acid,  biohazard,  fragile, frail, temperature sensitive, or hazmat.   Make sure your PI understands that.  My university has lost some expensive samples to that problem.  We also have the periodic problem of "You can't do that, leading  to expensive alternatives"  A good research leadership team will take a few days and nip that in the bud.

I'd love to know if the rules have changed in the past year....  For the record I'm not a lawyer.   

Steve



« Last Edit: April 25, 2022, 07:24:10 pm by LaserSteve »
"When in doubt, check the Byte order of the Communications Protocol, By Hand, On an Oscilloscope"

Quote from a co-inventor of the PLC, whom i had the honor of working with recently.
 

Offline m98

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 634
  • Country: de
Re: Illegal to order from Chinese fabs, export control?
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2022, 09:05:52 am »
Universities with security officers intercepting your mail? The US sounds more dystopian with every new fact you learn...
 

Offline cdev

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • !
  • Posts: 7350
  • Country: 00
Re: Illegal to order from Chinese fabs, export control?
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2022, 12:04:47 pm »
Is it illegal to order PCBs from cheap Chinese PCB houses now? Or not?
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline LaserSteve

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1354
  • Country: us
Re: Illegal to order from Chinese fabs, export control?
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2022, 02:38:50 pm »
Post 9-11 and Post Anthrax Incident lots of  universities, corporations, and government agencies went prudent on incoming mail until larger shippers got their act together on inspection..

I'm aware of a situation where five gallon pails of a drug precursor were ordered on a campus for five years. A secretary was ordering it for her boyfriend and having it delivered to various graduate students without their knowledge.   One day a graduate student received a pail before she could intercept it. Grad student knew what it was, was propely  enraged over the order of  a fairly dangerous"scheduled" chemical  in his/her name, and reported it.   Big embarrassment for one of the most recognized colleges in the field of study.  How she got around the hazmat reporting requirements, I do not know.

So in our case the  check is matching the package to the purchase order. If something is suspicious Health and Safety gets called or the PI goes to receiving. Otherwise nothing is said.

What often happens is a sales person clicks on the wrong on-campus  address and ships a package. We often receive chemicals or parts addressed to our department that we did not order, or do not know which group the package was intended for.  One of my duties as a technician is to open or identify poorly shipped containers and get them to the proper recipient.  Often even the purchase order will not have a name on it. So I end up contacting the vendor for purchase data.

If your an undergraduate on our campus you can order "edible undies" delivered to your dorm and nothing will be said. But if your paid staff and it is a business matter, your package may legally checked without consent. That is true in most of the world.

 It may sound dystopian, but in reality shipments  rarely are opened. Truck after truck delivers daily to our loading dock. There simply is not time to open and check every box.

Steve
« Last Edit: April 26, 2022, 02:53:27 pm by LaserSteve »
"When in doubt, check the Byte order of the Communications Protocol, By Hand, On an Oscilloscope"

Quote from a co-inventor of the PLC, whom i had the honor of working with recently.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15797
  • Country: fr
Re: Illegal to order from Chinese fabs, export control?
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2022, 06:05:45 pm »
Not sure I got whether it was a purely personal order here from the OP, or whether it was an order placed for some university project. Two different things already.

If the former, then I'd suggest never having any personal mail sent to the organization you work at, whether it be a private company or a public institution. They all have policies for this. The previous company I worked at had a policy of OPENING any letter you received as an employee, which were all recorded in a file. But packages were not opened. That was in the company's internal regulations, so you were supposed to know it once you got employed.

So, we commonly had personal packages delivered at the workplace out of convenience, and the company tolerated it (although they were telling us to avoid large packages.)
But at some other places, internal regulations may have various policies and you're supposed to follow them.
 

Offline boB

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 341
  • Country: us
    • my work www
Re: Illegal to order from Chinese fabs, export control?
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2022, 08:46:30 pm »
Is it illegal to order PCBs from cheap Chinese PCB houses now? Or not?

No.  Not in the US or North America.   

Now, there might be tariffs paid when they entered the country...

The security guy has some kind of a complex and is totally full of shit.

If he were correct, then you would probably have to confiscate his radio, his cell phone and possibly any electronics he has on his person because they or their PCBs most likely came from China.

Geeesh !  What kind of stupidity is this country heading for ?!!?!?

boB
« Last Edit: April 26, 2022, 08:48:44 pm by boB »
K7IQ
 

Offline cdev

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • !
  • Posts: 7350
  • Country: 00
Re: Illegal to order from Chinese fabs, export control?
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2022, 09:36:00 pm »
That's what it seemed like it was to me too.  Since when is offering low prices illegal?

"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf