Author Topic: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!  (Read 5347 times)

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Offline mendip_discovery

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Re: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2023, 09:53:33 pm »
The entire point of a PROPER bicycle is to provide exercise. "E-bikes" are as pointless as they seem, and a nice little earner for HMRC to fool the gullible and trend-followers.

Lol, you must live out on the fens. Here on the Mendips it's a nice way to cope with some of the hills. Not that I have an electric thing. I prefer a 1961 Matchless G3L for pottering around on.

I agree that eBikes should have regulations. Could you imagine it being ok for someone to have a Mugen Honda and ride the cycle paths through towns for it's a 173mph bike.



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Offline Psi

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Re: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2023, 10:37:36 pm »
The entire point of a PROPER bicycle is to provide exercise. "E-bikes" are as pointless as they seem, and a nice little earner for HMRC to fool the gullible and trend-followers.

Na, exercise is only 1 of the reasons to use a bicycle.

From a practical viewpoint
- To get from point A to point B faster than walking, to make the trip easier, to avoid traffic jams and to save the high parking costs if you took the car.

From an entertainment view point
- To have fun riding through areas of interest or nature.

From a health view point
- To burn energy and get exercise. Or just get some fresh air.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2023, 10:41:40 pm by Psi »
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2023, 01:00:44 am »
You forgot
- To arrive wherever wet and bedraggled.

From a financial view point
- To be always worried the bike (or parts thereof) won't be where you left it.
 

Offline Buriedcode

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Re: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2023, 01:36:03 am »
The entire point of a PROPER bicycle is to provide exercise. "E-bikes" are as pointless as they seem, and a nice little earner for HMRC to fool the gullible and trend-followers.

It's a mode of transport for those who cannot afford a car, or do not have access to public transport (or can't afford it) and if you've ever had a job that requires riding 10+ miles a day I'm sure you'd be grateful for some "power" to ease some of the gradients.  Also, the congestion charge in London stings if you have regular work there.

For the weathly and/or middle classes, in the 'burbs, sure it's also a form of exercise, but most people in the world don't live in such situations.  Claiming the only point of a bicycle is for exercise is pretty narrow minded.
 
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Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2023, 06:10:46 am »
A fool and his money are soon parted. Did his $6K Made-In-China e-bike conform to the FCC regulations? What about EN-15194? Obviously not. What about EN-62133?

The bloke behind me almost burned his house down with an illegal battery charger he imported from China. Two houses were burned down in the past few months in Melbourne - one caused by an e-Scooters being recharged, the other by a power tool battery pack being recharged. One woman was electrocuted and died in Sydney from an Li-Ion illegal battery charger.

I just bought a genuine 4Ah battery and charger from a reputable dealer for my Ryobi One tools ($A 119), made by Ryobi with the RCM mark of compliance on their product (made in China, but by a highly reputable Japanese company). I could have paid $24 of the price for an illegal Chinese knockoff on eBay, but I figure my house to worth more than the savings. Despite the eBay merchant saying they are compatible with Ryobi, they NOT actually compatible. For a start, they do not have the safety approvals; not even the RCM mark and are sold illegally, and the majority of them have their Ah capacity below what they state.

I am sure the same problem exists in other countries.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2023, 12:18:47 pm by VK3DRB »
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2023, 08:13:59 am »
You forgot
- To arrive wherever wet and bedraggled.

From a financial view point
- To be always worried the bike (or parts thereof) won't be where you left it.

Those are reasons not to use a bike, so they dont belong in my list of reasons to use one.
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Offline jonovid

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Re: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2023, 10:28:42 am »
The entire point of a PROPER bicycle is to provide exercise. "E-bikes" are as pointless as they seem, and a nice little earner for HMRC to fool the gullible and trend-followers.

Na, exercise is only 1 of the reasons to use a bicycle.

From a practical viewpoint
- To get from point A to point B faster than walking, to make the trip easier, to avoid traffic jams and to save the high parking costs if you took the car.

From an entertainment view point
- To have fun riding through areas of interest or nature.

From a health view point
- To burn energy and get exercise. Or just get some fresh air.

e-bike are affordable mode of transport as dedicated motorcycles have long become expensive with increasing government regulation.
as bicycle is too slow for the non-athletic seeking a mode of transport.  so the basic e-bike fills the gap.
Hobbyist with a basic knowledge of electronics
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2023, 11:00:48 am »
You forgot
- To arrive wherever wet and bedraggled.

From a financial view point
- To be always worried the bike (or parts thereof) won't be where you left it.

Those are reasons not to use a bike, so they dont belong in my list of reasons to use one.

Picky  8)
 

Offline tszaboo

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Re: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2023, 12:44:22 pm »
The entire point of a PROPER bicycle is to provide exercise. "E-bikes" are as pointless as they seem, and a nice little earner for HMRC to fool the gullible and trend-followers.
Did you ever encounter this term called "motorbike"?
 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2023, 12:36:53 am »
The entire point of a PROPER bicycle is to provide exercise. "E-bikes" are as pointless as they seem, and a nice little earner for HMRC to fool the gullible and trend-followers.

Na, exercise is only 1 of the reasons to use a bicycle.

From a practical viewpoint
- To get from point A to point B faster than walking, to make the trip easier, to avoid traffic jams and to save the high parking costs if you took the car.

From an entertainment view point
- To have fun riding through areas of interest or nature.

From a health view point
- To burn energy and get exercise. Or just get some fresh air.

e-bike are affordable mode of transport as dedicated motorcycles have long become expensive with increasing government regulation.
as bicycle is too slow for the non-athletic seeking a mode of transport.  so the basic e-bike fills the gap.

Another reason for an eBike... to get fit.

I had an eBike about 12 years ago (early adopter) and used it three or four times a week to travel 13km each way to work because I was unfit but wanted to get fit. However over a period of several months, I pedalled more and more; and I got fit - very fit. In the end I hardly used the motor on the eBike at all even for a very steep hill. My calves legs were like tenpins. The added weight of the eBike actually increased my strength. I then restored my old Repco racing bike (no motor) because I had no need for the eBike.

The biggest health risk with any bike are the few idiotic car drivers who think they own the road and don't have any respect for bicycle riders. I was doored once by a Karen in a 4WD who said it was my fault because I was riding on the road which its illegal because bicycles are only allowed to ride on a pedestrian footpath :palm:
 

Offline AndyBeez

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Re: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2023, 12:56:09 pm »
My first e-bike had LEAD ACID cells for the battery pack, weighing near to 30 kilos. Was a work out just getting the bike moving. As for stopping, the brakes were completely inadequate (useless). Praise the Lord for lithium cells.

Did you ever encounter this term called "motorbike"?

There is an arms race amongst the electric bicycle manufacturers: More Amp Hours in the battery, more kilowatts in the over sized motor drum, central drive, prop shaft drive, bomb proof welded spider frame, and so on. Reality, most e-bikes are NOT electric bicycles but electric motorcycles with added pedals.

These $3000+ e-bikes are being sold with "pedal conversion" kits. Simply, manufacturers are adding cheap and nasty plastic pedals and chains for regulatory compliance. If it has a 2500W motor, a 100Ah battery, a top speed of 80mph and, it has pedals, then it must be a bicycle. Right? Which means no road taxation, no vehicle insurance and no vehicle testing to stamp the pink slip every year. Plus, your five year old son can legally ride it on the highway and all pedestrian footpaths. Pedal kits can be removed and replaced with foot rests - which the supplier conveniently sells on their Chinese website. Unfortunately, fitting footrests also requires the fitment of road legal mirrors, indicators, a speedometer and let us not forget, efficient brakes. Because your five year old son might just need to go from 50mph to zero when he encounters a red traffic signal. Newsflash: Electric motorbikes must stop at red traffic signals, whereas electric bicycles (and manual bicycles) never have/ever will.

Compare and contrast that barbecue on spokes with this 'budget' electric motorcycle:
"I BOUGHT the CHEAPEST ELECTRIC dirt bike on Amazon" from Sean Kerr on the Bikes & Beards channel:
 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2023, 11:06:42 am »
Quote
These $3000+ e-bikes are being sold with "pedal conversion" kits. Simply, manufacturers are adding cheap and nasty plastic pedals and chains for regulatory compliance. If it has a 2500W motor, a 100Ah battery, a top speed of 80mph and, it has pedals, then it must be a bicycle. Right? Which means no road taxation, no vehicle insurance and no vehicle testing to stamp the pink slip every year. Plus, your five year old son can legally ride it on the highway and all pedestrian footpaths...

Anyone caught riding that here will be fined heavily. 200W motor is the maximum not primarily because of safety, but because of tax avoidance. Scooters and electric bikes are not per km taxed - YET, but petrol motor bikes are taxed every time a rider buys petrol.

To my knowledge, we are the only jurisdiction in the world to have a per km tax for electric cars. It is nicknamed the "Daniel Andrews Electric Vehicle Disincentive Tax" (Premier Daniel Andrews is the birdbrain who introduced this tax). No surprise, the uptake of EV's here is about the lowest in the western world. His political party has received political donations from oil companies. The EV tax is calculated by sending a photograph of the odometer to the state government every year. It is around 2.5 cents per km, but will likely rise considerably if EV's gain in popularity - possibly to 15 or 20 cents per km within ten years. Plug-in hybrid vehicles are currently taxed at 2.0 cents per km. There is an loophole though. There is a company in Queensland that converts certain models of internal combustion engine cars into EVs. The state government hew has no way of knowing if a petrol car has been converted or not. If this loophole becomes popular, the Victorian police will likely randomly open up the bonnet of some models of cars to check. Getting caught on tax fraud here can result in severe financial penalties including prison time.

 
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Online Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2023, 11:14:31 am »
Madness.
iratus parum formica
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2023, 12:54:08 pm »
Why is per km taxing so bad for EVs? They are big, heavy things that put more wear on the roads than most IC vehicles, and yet there is no way to tax them via fuel (how would you tell the electricity is being used to charge an EV instead of, for instance, powering your dialysis machine?). Seems only fair that they pay tax like everyone else, and per km seems to be the only sensible way to do it. And... EVs are expensive enough that if you can afford one you can afford the tax too.

Maybe you can suggest a reasonable and workable alternative?
 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2023, 07:52:21 am »
Why is per km taxing so bad for EVs? They are big, heavy things that put more wear on the roads than most IC vehicles, and yet there is no way to tax them via fuel (how would you tell the electricity is being used to charge an EV instead of, for instance, powering your dialysis machine?). Seems only fair that they pay tax like everyone else, and per km seems to be the only sensible way to do it. And... EVs are expensive enough that if you can afford one you can afford the tax too.

Maybe you can suggest a reasonable and workable alternative?

The government says the tax is for wear and tear on the roads, but the reality is the petrol tax and the electric vehicle per km tax goes into consolidated revenue. Road tax should be accounted for in vehicle registration fees, where the cost is shared, meaning poorer people who have to travel long distances pay less tax and wealthier people who live close to the city centre pay more tax. I see a time when electric scooters and eBikes will be taxed per km like electric vehicles in this state and maybe throughout the free world.
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2023, 09:12:00 am »
Why is per km taxing so bad for EVs? They are big, heavy things that put more wear on the roads than most IC vehicles,[...] EVs are expensive enough that if you can afford one you can afford the tax too.

This seems off-topic, since the thread is about e-bikes (i.e. electrified bicycles), not full-scale EVs.

Other posts above made some scary claims that an "e-bike" in the US can supposedly have any kind of motor power and no speed limit, as long as it has pedals which you need to push to keep the electric power going. Is that really the case? Specific rules seem to vary by state, but I also found this federal memorandum. It suggests a more reasonable definition, including 20 mph or 28 mph speed limits for various classes of e-bikes. Maybe someone from the US could shed some light onto this?
 

Offline bson

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Re: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2023, 11:54:42 pm »
In the UK if its over a specific power, it rapidly becomes a motorcycle. So, therefore, comes under the laws for motorcycles but so far there has been little effort from the Police on this so on my drive to work I have to put up with being overtaken in a 30mph limit by someone doing >40mph. Then there is a chap posting videos of his 60mph one, I am only grumpy because I know if I did anything like this the Police would soon be after me.
Here in California if it has a throttle control and can provide a pedal assist past 20 mph it's a moped.  Anything that can exceed 20 mph assisted (but lacks a throttle control) is a class 3 and can't provide an assist past 28 mph; if it does it's also a moped.  I believe the law was just changed to allow class 3 e-bikes to use bike lanes and multiuse paths.  Needless to say, the laws are very spottily enforced.
 

Offline bson

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Re: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!
« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2023, 12:14:01 am »
Other posts above made some scary claims that an "e-bike" in the US can supposedly have any kind of motor power and no speed limit, as long as it has pedals which you need to push to keep the electric power going.
The U.S. has no traffic regulations; it's entirely reserved to the states.  22 states currently share the class 1, 2, 3 definition which limits the motor power to 750W and assist speed to 28 mph for a class 3.  E-bikes like regular bicycles nominally have to obey speed limits just like everyone else.  Anything else is a moped and you need to get a license and register it.  As far as I can tell the states with large cities and metro areas are the ones to regulate them - California, New York, Texas, Florida, etc.  The ones without don't seem to care as much - Wyoming, Montana, and so on.  The largest city in Wyoming is Cheyenne with pop 65k, so it probably doesn't really matter much there.  States in the middle are probably just taking their time as it's not such an urgent problem, and eventually even the less urban states will adopt compatible laws for consistency.
 
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Offline jonovid

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Re: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2023, 10:59:41 am »
Perfect for big city commuting is a Compact Folding e-bike design with Carry On Luggage type mini wheels & handle.
an e-bike design that has its own Luggage folding basket included. you can take it on a city bus or train.
50V is highest safe voltage for all wet weather e-bike also 25kmph safest e-bike speed limit for City traffic .
suspension is unnecessary below 20kmph.
Hobbyist with a basic knowledge of electronics
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Im a E-bike guy, wopp di doo!
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2023, 07:39:48 pm »
Perfect for big city commuting is a Compact Folding e-bike design with Carry On Luggage type mini wheels & handle.

I dunno. How long a commute do you have in mind?

"Long." > Are you sure you want to sit on such a thing, and bounce over bumps and into potholes with those mini wheels?
"Not long." > Forget about the e-bike and do some pedalling, you lazy bugger!  ;)
 


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