Poll

How big is still tolerable for you

traffic smaller than 100 KB / image
2 (1.3%)
traffic smaller than 200 KB / image
7 (4.5%)
traffic smaller than 500 KB / image
19 (12.1%)
traffic smaller than 1 MB / image
12 (7.6%)
traffic smaller than 2 MB / image
2 (1.3%)
I don't care about the traffic
36 (22.9%)
resolution smaller than 0.5 MP (960x540, qHD)
5 (3.2%)
resolution smaller than 1 MP (1280x720, HD)
16 (10.2%)
resolution smaller than 2 MP (1920x1080, Full HD)
14 (8.9%)
resolution smaller than 8 MP (3840x2160, 4K UHD)
4 (2.5%)
I don't care about the resolution
40 (25.5%)

Total Members Voted: 89

Author Topic: NEW FORUM UPLOAD FEATURES  (Read 19624 times)

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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #50 on: July 06, 2019, 06:33:15 pm »
If it was my choice, the ideal solution would be an SMF plugin that enabled inline images to by thumbnailed in the same fashion as image attachments. That way they can be positioned properly within the body of the post, but not incur extra bandwidth until clicked upon. I hunted around for such a thing a few weeks ago, but didn't find one.

If this feature exist, it will be perfect.  :-+

This mod might be it. At least it sounds like it enables you to relocate the bottom-of-post attachments to inline positions preserving the thumbnailing functionality. This would also eliminate the duplicate thumbnails at the end of the post when they already appear inline.

Does anyone have an SMF 2.x environment set up where they could try it out?

https://www.smfhacks.com/index.php?topic=9060.0
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Offline sokoloff

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #51 on: July 06, 2019, 08:50:58 pm »
My $10/month unlimited traffic 1Gbps fiber optic can download a DVD faster than a SSD can store it (800Mbs sustained download and 200Mbps sustained upload is very common here, Romania is one of the best in the world for its high speed internet at affordable prices)
Most every (probably every) SSD can do random writes well in excess of what a 1 Gbps link can download.

A 1 Gbps link will typically download around 100 MBps. One Byte (big B) is about 10 bits (little B) on the wire.
An SSD can typically store 200+MBps.
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #52 on: July 06, 2019, 11:29:48 pm »
I'm surprised so many don't care about the resolution and MB size.
The bandwidth used by still images is tiny compared to the bandwidth used by video. And even what would be considered an old PC by today's standards (e.g. a Lenovo T410) can handle pretty big images just fine.
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Offline StillTrying

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #53 on: July 07, 2019, 12:20:02 am »
The bandwidth used by still images is tiny compared to the bandwidth used by video.

Don't you think a single simple line drawing opening to a 5102x6599 image and using 100MB of browser memory is a bit excessive for one image in a mostly text forum, it only works well because most of us resize.
.  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #54 on: July 07, 2019, 12:37:08 am »
Don't you think a single simple line drawing opening to a 5102x6599 image and using 100MB of browser memory is a bit excessive for one image in a mostly text forum, it only works well because most of us resize.
Perhaps, but in some other cases like a detailed image of a large PCB, there really would be a good reason to have that level of detail. A 1080p/1MB "soft limit" might be an idea, where the user would be asked if they really intended to post something bigger. I wonder if a large percentage of those who post pictures well above 1080p without intending to do so were posting from a smartphone or tablet.
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

Cryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #55 on: July 07, 2019, 01:51:30 am »
Don't you think a single simple line drawing opening to a 5102x6599 image and using 100MB of browser memory is a bit excessive for one image in a mostly text forum, it only works well because most of us resize.
Perhaps,
There's no "perhaps" about it.

Quote
but in some other cases like a detailed image of a large PCB, there really would be a good reason to have that level of detail.
Certainly true - but from my experience these are very much the exception.

Quote
A 1080p/1MB "soft limit" might be an idea, where the user would be asked if they really intended to post something bigger.
I get what you're saying - but I fully expect there will be many that will see this as something they can click past, rather than fix.

Quote
I wonder if a large percentage of those who post pictures well above 1080p without intending to do so were posting from a smartphone or tablet.
This may be - but it still imposes a burden on others.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #56 on: July 07, 2019, 01:57:13 am »
I would love to pay some $$ more (even on a year base) to be able to upload here more data.

Quote
Restrictions: 25 per post, maximum total size 5000KB, maximum individual size 5000KB

For paying supporters it should be at least:

Quote
Restrictions: 25 per post, maximum total size 250MB, maximum individual size 10MB

Sorry - in the context of this thread, that is a rather selfish view.  The issue is not the limits imposed on a member when posting, but the impact it has on other members.

Quote
Slow internet connections users they will have problems not only at the EEVblog.
We are in 2019.
Sorry, but I find this attitude arrogant and bordering on offensive.
 
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Offline mariush

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #57 on: July 07, 2019, 02:20:09 am »
I would prefer the forum accept large images but maybe automatically create a "small resolution" version of pictures bigger than let's say 1600 pixels wide.
Have those compressed with JPG 75% quality or something like that... most such images would be under 100 KB in size. if I click on the image, I can get the 5000x something 2-5 MB full size picture.

People are more and more taking photos with their phones which use stupid presets like JPG 95% quality or higher, so they take 10 MP+ pictures that are 3-5 MB each.
This forum's "image upload" feature is very cumbersome, you have to admit.

« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 02:28:15 am by mariush »
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #58 on: July 07, 2019, 04:46:02 am »
I get what you're saying - but I fully expect there will be many that will see this as something they can click past, rather than fix.
A default option on the dialog to downscale it to 1080p should fix the lazy part. Actually make them uncheck the option if they want to post full resolution.

Is there a decent open source and easy to use crop and scale app for Android? A quick search finds one for cropping (LLCrop) and one for scaling (Send Reduced), but two apps to process a single image is a bit excessive. I haven't looked too closely since I don't really have a use for such an app - I just use KDE Connect to send it to a PC and use the full desktop version of GIMP for all image editing.
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

Cryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #59 on: July 07, 2019, 06:33:16 am »
I get what you're saying - but I fully expect there will be many that will see this as something they can click past, rather than fix.
A default option on the dialog to downscale it to 1080p should fix the lazy part. Actually make them uncheck the option if they want to post full resolution.

That would work - but the question becomes one of how such a facility becomes included in the SMF software.  Dave or Gnif certainly would not want to get into any sort of custom mod - and I would not expect them to as this would turn into a maintenance headache.
 

Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #60 on: July 07, 2019, 12:18:52 pm »
..........
Its about my rotting connector plastic that oozed out nasty flakes that I posted at other thread.  :(

Click to enlarge


Of course, I did post huge file sized photos too, ..........

This part impressed me!!, and so my 'experiment' further below. Obviously the problems are many-fold...
File-size, Data-Usage, and ease of viewing.  Obviously we can't help 'everyone', but to 'ME' the problem
is one of 'Readability' by others. What 'BravoV' did above, was to use the *img* & */img* IN-LINE,
but added the *width=64* after the opening *img* tag. (REPLY with QUOTE to see the coding, but don't post).

I use 'imgur' to store images, but you have to understand that AFTER uploading them, you have to Right-Click
on the photos, and select 'View-Image', to get the actual LINK to use for the Jpg image.
Here is an EXAMPLE of say 3 images, to be shown IN-LINE within text, with NO attachments......

Here is photo 1, that can be clicked on to see the original image, from imgur...

Now there is some more text here, and then another image...

And finally, some more 'text', before showing a final image here below...


Notice there are NO 'Attachments' below this, and that they are only LINKS above. And that the LINKS
have been limited to ICON size representations !  I don't know how it could be simpler.
Diagonal of 1x1 square = Root-2. Ok.
Diagonal of 1x1x1 cube = Root-3 !!!  Beautiful !!
 

Offline sokoloff

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #61 on: July 07, 2019, 12:57:55 pm »
What I don’t like about recommending external hosting is that you then make the long-run hosting subject to the whims and business model changes (or even tech changes) of a third party provider.

I’m on several forums where there’s some old posts with all the images gone.
 
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Offline Brumby

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #62 on: July 07, 2019, 01:37:15 pm »
Yes - All we need is another Photobucket fiasco.
 
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Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #63 on: July 07, 2019, 02:14:07 pm »
I wonder how easy would it be to implement a hybrid P2P system where the P2P part is for backup. The backup nodes can run on cheap, low power hardware such as Raspberry Pi and are programmed to retrieve newly posted images, prioritizing those that have the least number of copies on the network. Each posted image will be tagged with its hash, so finding a missing image should be as easy as searching for the hash on the network.
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Offline rstofer

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #64 on: July 07, 2019, 05:56:52 pm »
If you can't say it in 800x600 or such*, should you really be saying it at all?  Consider first of all, cropping, brightening and sharpening your image.  Second, if you must show detail, why not crop sections, or take macro shots?  There is so much more information you can present, in so much better ways.
There are probably two sides to this issue:  First, as a requester of information, I would probably cut down an image in terms of pixels and color depth just to be able to post it.  I need an answer to something that is essentially visual.  Second, as a responder, I am not going to spend the time to cut down an image that responds to somebody else's request.  Too much effort, no reward.
Quote
Most people, simply give it no thought whatsoever, have no clue that this is even a thing to argue about -- they have no need or care of the details, they just want to get an image from here to there.

For their benefit, there could perhaps be an added step like, "Would you like your image to be reduced automatically?"  The default option would be "yes", encouraging its use.  Answering "no" might give a second nag, "would you like your image compressed for faster loading?", which would save it at JPG compression 80-90 say, or PNG indexed, whichever is smaller; assuming this isn't a tremendous load on the server of course**; and if declined both times, just let it through absolutely normal.  Possibly add an option "Use these options for all attachments?" for when a user is posting a lot of images and doesn't want the nag every time.  Or put it in the user profile as another option ("attachments: advanced mode" say?).
As long as the resulting image displays the intent, I am all in favor of automagic.  But if we're looking for that tiny little spike in a scope image, it would be regrettable if the compression eliminated it.
Quote
But, speaking of laziness, it may well be more effort to introduce such a feature to the forum software, than it is to provide for the server and connections, and if most users aren't complaining about load times or poorly formatted images who cares, right?

Tim
I would see storage space as a bigger issue than download size.  My download rate is 300 Mbps and no cap.  I simply don't care how large an image is.  What I don't want to do is get into a compression game just to upload an image in response to somebody else's question.

Automagic, that's the ticket!
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #65 on: July 07, 2019, 06:01:25 pm »
What I don’t like about recommending external hosting is that you then make the long-run hosting subject to the whims and business model changes (or even tech changes) of a third party provider.

I’m on several forums where there’s some old posts with all the images gone.

I have  a different point of view on ancient threads.  I think threads should be tagged as zombies after a year since the last post (or a year from origination) and no more posts are accepted.  Read all you want but don't try to bring it back to life.  Given a zombie thread, I wouldn't mind having the images deleted a year or so after that point.  This stuff just isn't important enough to archive forever.
 

Offline sokoloff

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #66 on: July 07, 2019, 06:16:53 pm »
I understand that point of view. I don't happen to agree, because very few fields change that quickly.

What worked in engineering, cars, aviation, home appliances, electronics, or whatever a year ago probably still works today. It's amazingly frustrating to find via search a thread with your exact issue and screenshots in the thread, with text that says "see screenshot for the solution" and for the screenshot to be 404...
 
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Online nctnico

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #67 on: July 07, 2019, 06:23:58 pm »
What I don’t like about recommending external hosting is that you then make the long-run hosting subject to the whims and business model changes (or even tech changes) of a third party provider.

I’m on several forums where there’s some old posts with all the images gone.
I agree that using external images / attachement isn't ideal but this forum simply doesn't offer a viable alternative. If you want to create a posting with several images on EEVblog you have to re-edit your post several times and copy links to the attachements. That is a lot of work (besides the size of the images). Some forums (like Tapatalk) have their own system to handle attachements in a user friendly way.

@sokoloff: you are 100% right. I don't like it when that happens too.
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Offline bsfeechannel

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #68 on: July 07, 2019, 08:29:26 pm »
I guess it all boils down to the fact that the Internet has become essentially graphic and this forum software--what is it called? SMF?--is still text-oriented when it comes to uploading: as if we were sending email messages. It still treats anything that is not text as if it were a MIME, i.e., an extension, an appendix, an attachment.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #69 on: July 08, 2019, 01:13:23 pm »
Don't you think a single simple line drawing opening to a 5102x6599 image and using 100MB of browser memory is a bit excessive for one image in a mostly text forum, it only works well because most of us resize.
Perhaps, but in some other cases like a detailed image of a large PCB, there really would be a good reason to have that level of detail. A 1080p/1MB "soft limit" might be an idea, where the user would be asked if they really intended to post something bigger. I wonder if a large percentage of those who post pictures well above 1080p without intending to do so were posting from a smartphone or tablet.

Or people with super large images just just post them on Imgur or anywhere else and link/embed that. If people want to see all 100million pixels they can click on it and go there.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #70 on: July 08, 2019, 01:15:05 pm »
I guess it all boils down to the fact that the Internet has become essentially graphic and this forum software--what is it called? SMF?--is still text-oriented when it comes to uploading: as if we were sending email messages. It still treats anything that is not text as if it were a MIME, i.e., an extension, an appendix, an attachment.

I really like the ZenForo forum software I use on another forum, you can just CTRL-V the image (and other things like HTML pages etc) inline into your post and it just displayes it. No need to upload etc.
I can really see that being abused though.
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #71 on: July 08, 2019, 06:40:39 pm »
This seems a useful way to address the inline images: https://www.smfhacks.com/index.php?topic=9060.0
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #72 on: July 09, 2019, 01:37:36 am »
This seems a useful way to address the inline images: https://www.smfhacks.com/index.php?topic=9060.0

Installed
There are now extra options in the attachment box.
Testing "Inline expandable thumbnail"

780249-0

 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #73 on: July 09, 2019, 01:38:49 am »
Testing inline full size image
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Images embedded between text - how big is still tolerable for you?
« Reply #74 on: July 09, 2019, 01:39:25 am »
Testing normal end of post thumbnail
 


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