Impact of US government spending impasse

[CatalinaWOW]

I too will be glad to see Trump gone.  I didn't vote for him or his primary opponent in 2016.  Unfortunately I don't see 2020 as bringing a new golden age in politics.  We don't seem to be oversupplied with good thoughtful leaders who look beyond victory for their own team.

Well you pretty much did vote for him then, because the way the system is set up there are two viable candidates in the final race. Voting for anyone else is at best just throwing away your vote. I don't see any real improvements anytime in the foreseeable future either though, people have been getting increasingly polarized and the internet allows like minded folks to exist in gigantic echo chambers leading them to believe they are the vast majority no matter what their beliefs and that anyone who disagrees with them is an outlying minority they don't need to compromise with or listen to their point of view.

Actually my vote didn't hurt Hillary. I live in a blue state so for all practical purposes I voted for her. Trump's genius (or his teams genius) was recognizing how few votes actually did matter and focussed efforts their.

My vote left my conscience clear.  I personally think Hillary would have been bad also, though certainly more polished.

Our system left better candidates on the wayside on both sides.  Early in the case of the Dems, later for the Repubs.

[james_s]

I never claimed Trump was schizophrenic, that was simply an example of a mental illness that can be diagnosed to a reasonable degree of certainty by observing symptoms. Not so much by watching them on tv but if they happen to spend a lot of time blathering on social media like Twitter you can get a pretty good insight into a person's head. When you combine that with the way they behave in public and the vast amount of input from people who have spent time with them, yes a person can absolutely be diagnosed with mental disorders without personally having them sitting in front of you. Mental health diagnosis is based almost entirely on observation of behavior and external symptoms, there is no direct test.

[cdev]

I think Trump may have untreated ADD, and also I suspect NPD.

Neither would necessarily stand in the way of his being smart in certain ways (although I don't think he's smart, so much as been lucky to have been born into wealth) but especially the NPD would be problematic because NPD people lack a moral compass and also often make incredibly bad decisions.
The late Joanna Ashmun has a very good site on NPD..

I also suspect Hillary Clinton would have made a terrible President, despite my being a lifelong Democrat. I think the Democratic Party in the US needs to replace its current leadership with people who are less beholden to huge corporations. Especially the banking industry, Big Pharma, the health insurance industry, Hollywood, and Wall St.

It is depressing to me how both parties here in the US are trying very hard to divide us when we actually agree on a lot. Poor people in particular should understand how they could improve the outcome by organizing to address their biggest problems. The solutions to some of the worst of it could be straightforward and benefit everybody. (Alternatives to corporate everything)

This is being prevented by wedge issue politics.

I personally also think immigration, legal immigration is a big plus, whats bad is the exploitation of people in artificially disadvantaged situations to extract vastly undervalued labor from people. The so called problems many people attribute to immigrants are really systemic problems with people losing jobs which in the past  used to offer people stability both here and elsewhere. The poor people who come here to seek work come because of gang warfare and havoc subsidized US (in the North American case) agricultural products making farming so much less profitable people leave their home lands which is I am sure where most would like to live. If we stopped trying to extract the most wealth out of every transaction and stopped trying to make deals to push peoples wages down lower and lower, if we understood that inefficiency has its plusses and good business practices leave everybody happy they have interacted, we would all be a lot happier and healthier and wealthier too, I suspect.

[james_s]

Immigration is definitely a big plus, few would say otherwise. A lot of people deliberately confuse legal immigrants with illegal aliens to say people are anti-immigrant.

[raptor1956]

Trump does indeed make Bush43 seem like a statesman and a genius -- how is that even possible.  I grew up in NY and have heard tales of Trump for decades before he became a household name beyond the NYC area and I've always felt him to be a narcissists narcissist.  The willingness to go after entire groups of people for political ends suggests he's more than a narcissist but a full on sociopath -- that condition is sadly common in the executive ranks.  His dad was a crook and he studied under Roy Cohen -- the Donald has been a crook his entire life.  His most glaring trait and one almost no one can deny is that he simply can not tell the truth ... ever.  He seems to lie even when there's no penalty in telling the truth because telling lies is what he does.

In the late 80's and early 90's Trump had burned so many US banks that they cut him off entirely and Trump had to go elsewhere for financing.  Why is it a multi-billionaire needs banks anyway.  But in the early 90's Trump found a bank in Germany to lend him money, a bank with deep ties to Russia and known for laundering money.  It is at this point the Russians identified him as a potential asset and they been grooming him ever since.  Trump is a traitor president, as a former member of the US military that is a painful thing to say...


Brian

[apis]

Trump does indeed make Bush43 seem like a statesman and a genius -- how is that even possible.

Unlike Bush II he hasn't started any illegal wars (so far).

[nctnico]

He inherited a lot of his wealth from his father, Fred's huge real estate empire in various ways, not all of them widely known.

My recollection is Trump's father passed away in the late 90's and his net worth was estimated to be about a half-billion. Trump's net worth is conservatively estimated almost an order of magnitude higher. Suggesting he "inherited everything from his father" is silly.

I'm not fans of the Clintons, but I'm able to recognize and acknowledge Bill's political acumen and ability to leverage it for his own financial benefit. People with Trump Derangement Syndrome are unable to do the same (recognize and acknowledge Trump's success)

I read some more about Trumps wealth and it seems he has gathered a lot by riding along others. If Trump truly where the succesful businessman he thinks he is, he wouldn't have been on TV all the time (pretending) and he would have made at least as much money as Warren Buffet. The numbers however don't lie. He had a few successes early on but after that his money has been sitting idle for over a quarter of a century. He invested most in real estate but the smart move would have been to invest it -at least- in a mixed fund with a medium risk profile. He would have had over twice the money he has now.

[raptor1956]

Trump does indeed make Bush43 seem like a statesman and a genius -- how is that even possible.

Unlike Bush II he hasn't started any illegal wars (so far).

True enough, though there are reports he's asked the military for a war plan in Iran.

Bush43 was the president in name only, the real power was Cheney and the NEOCON's that populated his admin.  They were spoiling for a second war in Iraq since the mid 90's and published articles detailing the need to 'finish the job'.  By the middle of his second term Bush finally saw that Cheney and Rumsfeld were playing him and he changed course.  A little late however.

The decision to go back to Iraq is the single greatest foreign policy failure of any president in our nations history and we are dealing with the blow-back from that to this day. 

So, as seemingly impossible as it might be that another president might come along and surpass Bush43 for idiocy Trump has, sadly, stepped up to the plate and done just that.  The fools that support him are, well, there are no words that capture my disgust sufficiently.


Brian

[Simon]

I am afraid the problem will persist so long as money = power.

[Mr. Scram]

My recollection is Trump's father passed away in the late 90's and his net worth was estimated to be about a half-billion. Trump's net worth is conservatively estimated almost an order of magnitude higher. Suggesting he "inherited everything from his father" is silly.

I'm not fans of the Clintons, but I'm able to recognize and acknowledge Bill's political acumen and ability to leverage it for his own financial benefit. People with Trump Derangement Syndrome are unable to do the same (recognize and acknowledge Trump's success)

That net worth was the reported net worth when he died. It seems he had already transferred a considerable amount at that point, and there are some fairly substantial indications that a lot more money changed hands more covertly. The million dollar loan story has obviously never happened that way.

Trump's net worth is mostly self reported, and he hasn't as far as I'm aware never produced tax returns which would show his actual net worth and taxes paid. However, Trump has commented that his net worth is whatever he feels like it is that day. What remains is a fairly tentative grasp of what he's actually worth and what his actual success in business is.

https://money.cnn.com/2011/04/21/news/companies/donald_trump/
https://www.newsweek.com/how-much-trump-worth-depends-how-he-feels-384720

[raptor1956]

My recollection is Trump's father passed away in the late 90's and his net worth was estimated to be about a half-billion. Trump's net worth is conservatively estimated almost an order of magnitude higher. Suggesting he "inherited everything from his father" is silly.

I'm not fans of the Clintons, but I'm able to recognize and acknowledge Bill's political acumen and ability to leverage it for his own financial benefit. People with Trump Derangement Syndrome are unable to do the same (recognize and acknowledge Trump's success)

That net worth was the reported net worth when he died. It seems he had already transferred a considerable amount at that point, and there are some fairly substantial indications that a lot more money changed hands more covertly. The million dollar loan story has obviously never happened that way.

Trump's net worth is mostly self reported, and he hasn't as far as I'm aware never produced tax returns which would show his actual net worth and taxes paid. However, Trump has commented that his net worth is whatever he feels like it is that day. What remains is a fairly tentative grasp of what he's actually worth and what his actual success in business is.

https://money.cnn.com/2011/04/21/news/companies/donald_trump/
https://www.newsweek.com/how-much-trump-worth-depends-how-he-feels-384720

Back in the early to mid 80's when 'The Donald' was beginning his quest to dominate the airwaves, he'd call into Forbes and other news outlets, pretending to be someone else, and praise himself.  He was particularly determined to have the media list him as one of the richest men in America.  The pseudonyms he used for this deception included, but were not limited to: John Barron, John Miller, and David Dennison.  His whole life is one big con and the folks he's conned the hardest seem not to care one bit that he's conning them.  It is most ironic that the folks that blather on the most about "fake news" are in fact the most devoted followers and spreaders of it.


Brian

[beanflying]

Cyber Security shutdown of his own Presidential Executive Order. https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/presidential-executive-order-strengthening-cybersecurity-federal-networks-critical-infrastructure/

More info on NIST here too what is and isn't open https://duo.com/decipher/government-shutdown-impacts-enterprise-security

Come on in China, Russia anyone else want a bit  Byte .....


Some of what Australians are seeing on our Government owned Media https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-15/donald-trump-us-government-shutdown-how-will-it-end/10710882

[CatalinaWOW]

Aussie news seems to be doing a pretty good job of describing the situation.  More depth and more balanced than our local outlets.

[Simon]

That is because they don't give a shit about what is going on as it does not affect them. in the UK I would say that even the BBC is biased, simply because it has people that present the news and as much as the BBC wants to be impartial it cannot control the inflection in the voices of the presenters or the snearing noises they make knowing their listeners agree. The BBC has come to the conclusion that it is a balanced organisation if it gets equal amounts of complaints from both sides

[beanflying]

I won't post what we think about Brexit more than to say it does help us feel less stupid about our own farce of rotating sitting Prime Ministers along with other things. Generally the ABC gets the middle ground and balance about right and allows viewers to decide where they feel comfortable. Our local commercial stations less so and we do get talking head syndrome and that is getting worse.

Youtube seems to think I need to hear more about Trump, from a year ago and goes to what was being discussed back in this thread a bit about his personality traits. I choose this one over the alternate Tucker Foxwit one also from my feed. Time I strarted looking at just Electronic or 3D printing videos instead

[JoeO]

Uh yea - past employees who know how stupid he is. 

Stupid guy who took a million dollars and transformed it into a multi-billion-dollar empire.

He didn't do that. He inherited everything from his father. And Trump did very poor with his investments. Forbes has a graph somewhere with how much wealth rich people gained over the past 27 years. Trump did way worse than the stock exchange! He got an interest rate of around 1.25% over that period (corrected for inflation). The stock exchange is around 3% (including the severe crashes we have seen in the recent 15 years).

"He inherited everything from his father"  Exactly what I am talking about.  More fake news.
20/20 hindsight is great when it comes to the stock market.  Everyone could have been rich if only.....

[JoeO]

He inherited a lot of his wealth from his father, Fred's huge real estate empire in various ways, not all of them widely known.

My recollection is Trump's father passed away in the late 90's and his net worth was estimated to be about a half-billion. Trump's net worth is conservatively estimated almost an order of magnitude higher. Suggesting he "inherited everything from his father" is silly.

I'm not fans of the Clintons, but I'm able to recognize and acknowledge Bill's political acumen and ability to leverage it for his own financial benefit. People with Trump Derangement Syndrome are unable to do the same (recognize and acknowledge Trump's success)

I read some more about Trumps wealth and it seems he has gathered a lot by riding along others. If Trump truly where the succesful businessman he thinks he is, he wouldn't have been on TV all the time (pretending) and he would have made at least as much money as Warren Buffet. The numbers however don't lie. He had a few successes early on but after that his money has been sitting idle for over a quarter of a century. He invested most in real estate but the smart move would have been to invest it -at least- in a mixed fund with a medium risk profile. He would have had over twice the money he has now.

Your grasp of the obvious is amazing. 

[nctnico]

20/20 hindsight is great when it comes to the stock market.  Everyone could have been rich if only.....

Historically making long term (>10 years) investments in an investment fund (which isn't just the stock market) has always paid off and it will pay off for the forseable future. This isn't some kind of insider secret; you can look up the numbers yourself. Every financial advisor will tell you the same if you want to set up a retirement fund or save money for any long term financial goal. Things get trickier (and more risky) if you want to get a higher return on investments fast.

[tooki]

The cause of drug addiction is loss of hope and despair. Young people are running into a economic wall thats preventing them from ever having a life like they are constantly told they need to have. A family, etc. A stable life. But the system is now eating its own. Its not going to give them that good life, its skimming off the riches and they are losing hope.

We need to stand up for them more. We need to have a future for this country. People need to be able to get a decent education, even if jobs wont be there for them. So it needs to be free, but GATS blocks that. It also blocks us from fixing our health care system. And it sets us up for a future economic disaster which will leave millions of people homeless, other people likely living in their homes, or maybe them sitting empty, some foreign oligarchs investment. Their 'escape hatch'.

It’s not just the young suffering. It’s every age group (except perhaps for young kids). In economically depressed areas, many middle age people lost their jobs and have no hope of recovering, nor of having anything resembling a retirement. So while the opiod crisis is affecting young adults a lot, it is by no means avoiding older groups. On the contrary, they’re using at higher rates than one might otherwise predict, historically speaking.

[tooki]

Uh yea - past employees who know how stupid he is. 

Stupid guy who took a million dollars and transformed it into a multi-billion-dollar empire.

Yup... pretty stupid.

Hope all my kids are that dumb.

No, you don’t. You’ll end up supporting them their entire lives, as Trump Sr. did for Donald.

That he’s a self-made man is the narrative Donald and his father spun. But it looks like there’s essentially no truth to it. Donald inherited everything from his dad — and drove lots of it into the ground.

I highly suggest you read this result of 3 years and 100,000 documents of research: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-tax-schemes-fred-trump.html?module=inline

[vtwin@cox.net]

www.nytimes.com

Yeah, there's an unbiased source 

[tooki]

www.nytimes.com

Yeah, there's an unbiased source 

Yep, to anyone who’s not a Fox News-obsessed republitard. No media is absolutely unbiased, but NYT is pretty darned close. And besides, if they were wrong on this, the right-wing media would have torn them apart — and they haven’t.

[tooki]

P.S. Just to be clear, I’m not saying all republicans are republitards. The latter is a subset of the former, though I’m sure there’s ample disagreement as to what percentage they comprise.

[Zero999]

The cause of drug addiction is loss of hope and despair. Young people are running into a economic wall thats preventing them from ever having a life like they are constantly told they need to have. A family, etc. A stable life. But the system is now eating its own. Its not going to give them that good life, its skimming off the riches and they are losing hope.

We need to stand up for them more. We need to have a future for this country. People need to be able to get a decent education, even if jobs wont be there for them. So it needs to be free, but GATS blocks that. It also blocks us from fixing our health care system. And it sets us up for a future economic disaster which will leave millions of people homeless, other people likely living in their homes, or maybe them sitting empty, some foreign oligarchs investment. Their 'escape hatch'.

It’s not just the young suffering. It’s every age group (except perhaps for young kids). In economically depressed areas, many middle age people lost their jobs and have no hope of recovering, nor of having anything resembling a retirement. So while the opiod crisis is affecting young adults a lot, it is by no means avoiding older groups. On the contrary, they’re using at higher rates than one might otherwise predict, historically speaking.

I don't buy into the idea that most addicts resort to drugs to cope with personal problems. I think in most cases, it's more likely that drugs are responsible for the user's problems, rather than the other way round. Plenty of people with no pre-existing physiological problems get addicted to drugs, just look at all of those who became hooked on prescription painkillers first. Someone might be prescribed painkillers when they break a bone. At the time, they have a well-paid job and a happy family life. When the doctor tries to take them off the medication, they struggle with withdrawal symptoms so keep getting a repeat prescription, up to the point when the doctors refuses and they look to the black market. They have to keep increasing their dose, until their performance at work suffers, they lose their job, break up with their partner and turn to crime. Although its effects are social, addiction is a biochemical phenomenon. In most cases, the emotional problems are due to the drugs altering the user's brain chemistry and the consequences of the user's behaviour when addicted.

[vtwin@cox.net]

I don't buy into the idea that most addicts resort to drugs to cope with personal problems.

I'd take it one step further. There are plenty of people who are prescribed painkillers and have no issues coming "off" them. However, some people have an "addictive" personality. I believe they are genetically predisposed to becoming addicted to a substance, whether it be illicit drugs, prescription drugs, alcohol, food, etc.