Author Topic: impedance problem in suez canal  (Read 7152 times)

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Online coppercone2Topic starter

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impedance problem in suez canal
« on: March 26, 2021, 06:04:20 pm »


So it looks like they have a high Z condition
 
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Online calzap

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2021, 06:54:49 pm »
Looks like tugboats have not increased in size to the extent cargo ships have.  The tugboats next to the ship look like mice trying to move a VW.  For dealing with future mishaps, the canal authority should invest in some truly giant tugs.  Cost would have to come out of a transit fee increase.

Mike in California
 

Online coppercone2Topic starter

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2021, 07:01:51 pm »
bad risk management planning, someone hand waved at this. I am sure the engineering/safety department forsaw that contingency.

They are trying to reduce costs too much. Someone should not have authorized that ship to pass through!

This is like 'yeah, don't pass the refrigerator through that door' .
 

Online TimFox

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2021, 07:15:07 pm »
At the time of Sinbad, sailors knew how to handle a sailing vessel in a sandstorm.  With the high stack of containers above deck, the ship presented a huge sail area.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 08:37:42 pm by TimFox »
 

Online coppercone2Topic starter

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2021, 07:19:13 pm »
Still, they should assume they can take it out, what if the engine failed or something? Its a question of can you push this out of here. I have a feeling its shady, perhaps not declared properly, etc.
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2021, 07:20:16 pm »
I'm no naval engineer but it seems to me there should be a rule of thumb that you don't try to enter a body of water that is narrower than the length of the ship.  In perfect conditions as long as ship stays straight I guess it's fine but in this case they definitely got themselves in a kerfuffle and jackknifed her good!   We're gonna need a bigger tugboat.

They'll probably need to bring in a large dredging ship or similar to try to get it out I imagine.   
 

Offline bsdphk

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2021, 07:24:41 pm »
"For dealing with future mishaps, the canal authority should invest in some truly giant tugs. "

Those are pretty giant tugs.

For tugs it is all about propulsion and the smaller the hull, the better.
 

Offline Domagoj T

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2021, 07:35:28 pm »
Those guys better get to it. My aliexpress order is being held up.
Speaking of Suez, remember the worst traffic jam in history?
 

Offline langwadt

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2021, 07:48:11 pm »
bad risk management planning, someone hand waved at this. I am sure the engineering/safety department forsaw that contingency.

They are trying to reduce costs too much. Someone should not have authorized that ship to pass through!


we don't ban driving just because people sometimes crash. We don't know what happened yet

https://youtu.be/QLFmojnXtk0
 

Online coppercone2Topic starter

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2021, 08:53:12 pm »
thats banning driving a 18 wheeler on a rope bridge

this is what financial people want


also at the money its costing, we will get bullshit explanations and justifications supreme crafted by the bullshit gods of the world. The PR thumb-screw is gonna get turned with a 2 foot long pipe wrench on this one.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 08:58:55 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2021, 08:56:49 pm »
While the suction dredging operation is bound to work eventually, given that the blockage is holding up $400M of goods per hour (source: Lloyd's List), I would have thought they would have started hammering some big piles or ground anchors into the ground and using winches (and maybe rams?). I'm sure you must be able to get more force out of a bunch of big winches than a few tug props.

Given the cost involved, it doesn't really matter if they damage the ship - as long as it still floats, so they could weld attachment points if necessary.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 08:58:44 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 
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Online coppercone2Topic starter

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current model of the problem
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2021, 09:03:13 pm »
 

Offline Syntax Error

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2021, 09:09:38 pm »
Maybe if they throw water over it and play whale song, it will find it's own way out to the sea?  :palm:
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2021, 10:28:02 pm »
Don't worry, managment is on this!  Blocking $9.6B of products per day, I've allocated resources.  8) One digger should be sufficient.
The memes about this happening are hilarious.
 
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Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2021, 04:59:58 am »
It's mind boggling when you consider the amounts of money involved in these delays.  These are amounts that can build incredibly large structures or other big projects that can take years, and this is days.
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2021, 05:53:43 am »
Can't they let air out of the tires to pass it through? Or is that buses?
Hoarder of 8-bit Commodore relics and 1960s Tektronix 500-series stuff. Unconventional interior decorator.
 
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Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2021, 06:02:35 am »
They could try filling the ballasts with helium! 
 

Offline joseph nicholas

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2021, 06:51:26 am »
Someone is dragging their feet here probably in order to change anything in the new world order you need to create a crisis.  For the few days this thing has slowed boat traffic to Europe they could have been REMOVING THE CONTAINERS using helicopters while the tides change and offloading anything in the bilge including fuel.  A cynic would say no one really cares in this fiasco because their is of course the insurance to pay for the delays.   
 

Offline MikeK

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2021, 02:27:06 pm »
There's a driving school for big ships:



 

Offline bdunham7

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2021, 03:35:51 pm »
REMOVING THE CONTAINERS using helicopters   

Helicopters?

– 20’ DV Container:

Tare Weight (Empty shipping container): 2.300 kg/5.071 lb
Payload (Maximum cargo weight that acontainer can carry): 25.000 kg/ 55.126 lb
– 40’ DV Container:

Tare Weight: 3.750 kg/8.268 lb
Payload: 27.600 kg/ 61.200 lb
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline BrokenYugo

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2021, 04:37:37 pm »
Don't forget this thing is very nearly a quarter mile long and holds up to 20,124 20 foot containers. Technically feasible or not unloading it in a hurry on site probably isn't gonna happen.
 

Offline langwadt

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2021, 04:58:07 pm »
REMOVING THE CONTAINERS using helicopters   

Helicopters?

– 20’ DV Container:

Tare Weight (Empty shipping container): 2.300 kg/5.071 lb
Payload (Maximum cargo weight that acontainer can carry): 25.000 kg/ 55.126 lb
– 40’ DV Container:

Tare Weight: 3.750 kg/8.268 lb
Payload: 27.600 kg/ 61.200 lb

yeh, afaik the biggest helicopter (that isn't a one-of in a museum) can lift ~20000kg


 

Online Marco

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2021, 05:19:15 pm »
For dealing with future mishaps, the canal authority should invest in some truly giant tugs.

Why use boat tugs at all? I know the Pamama canal abandoned railed tugs in their new locks, but I doubt it was a smart decision.
 

Online TimFox

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2021, 05:53:30 pm »
News reports indicated that offloading the containers by crane onto other vessels would be a last-ditch effort if all else failed.
I also don’t understand why the renovated Panama Canal abandoned the towing locomotives.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: impedance problem in suez canal
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2021, 06:06:00 pm »
Latest update. They're now using 14 tugs and have pumped out 9000 tonnes of ballast water (hope it stays upright  :D). Apparently they will need to bring in a 60m (200ft) high crane if they need to lighten further.

It does sound like the stern is more or less free though.
Best Regards, Chris
 


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