IMPORTANT POLL: New Forum Categories / Reorg

[Electric flower]

I think that adding minor sub-categories would be good so it's easier to navigate more precisely because this forum is pretty big, and there are tons of topics about different things and when searching something there is too much things to scroll and check before making your own thread, so in addition to sub-categories I think that it would be nice to be able to search topics in just one category, and not just whole forum.
I would like to see design and projects divided into separate categories and each having subcategories for power electronics, RF, HI-FI stuff, high voltage, maybe something about mechanical stuff  ...

Still if there is no change to this forum, this forum is still great, one of the best regards to electronics.

[tggzzz]

I would like to see design and projects divided into separate categories and each having subcategories for power electronics, RF, HI-FI stuff, high voltage, maybe something about mechanical stuff 

Too many categories brings problems such as, for example, where to put a HV power electronics question: in HV or in power electronics.

There are some natural non-overlapping boundaries, e.g. which button to press in Altium/KiCad/Eagle/DesignSpark, but even then some PCB/schematic questions span all of those, e.g. gerber output funnies, or manufacturing tolerances etc.

Still if there is no change to this forum, this forum is still great, one of the best regards to electronics.

Yes. For something successful, change is best done slowly - and it looks like Dave is well aware of that!

[Brumby]

I see Dave is using version 2, I have no recollection of the version they were using and maybe their upgrade costs made them move away from SMF. 

No doubt it's like any forum......a perpetual work in progress.

SMF version 1 used a number of deprecated elements which were kept functional until the release of PHP 5.5.  When servers were updated with this new version of PHP, the wheels fell off, resulting in dysfunctional software and panicking administrators.  SMF version 2 is OK.

[timofonic]

author=EEVblog link=topic=60467.msg831424#msg831424 date=1451374871]
But that's the thing, this is a discussion forum not a book where things are discussed in order. Multiple different conversions along different tangents between dozens of people can be going on at once and interleaved all in the one thread. That's just the nature of discussion forums.

You seams a little bit annoyed this issue was brought up!
The book was "analogy" in terms of searching "INFO" not a s a definitive structure as such, i'm glad books is not made in the form
of certain forum formats.
But again i didn't say anything about the "nature of discussions forums", there are many forms, i'm well aware of how topic threads
turns all non/topic ways and back, i.e i was once moderated for not following your here proposed "natural way of forum discussions"!
What about that!

Bottom line is Dave, what do we use forums for? Well exchange of INFO i imagine, what else?

Occasionally we'll split out threads to a new topic if they warrant it and it makes sense to do so, but it's not often.

See, you do it so maybe you should do it more often? Btw i'm NOT talking about split long threads into "new topic's", read again
what i said. I'm also not talking about sub categories as suggested by Rick law.

Bottom line is you can't take a 1000 post thread and chop it up, it ads absolutely no value in
doing so, unless you sort and categorise the posts and split them out in meaningful ways.

Evidence are on the net multi-fold, whether you like it or not it do work fine and has a value. But that was not what i said, i said "thread
length limits" your against a post actions i'm talking about a pre actions.  You are 30 years old or something im 89 well go figure if i have
time to wade trough you 1000 post threads for info that's in 5 or 6 posts! Maybe you have to get into my age until you understand fully!
I also have parkinsson, it's hell to solder anything smaller then 0402 but i'm one hell of improvised jazz drummer!

unless you sort and categorise the posts and split them out in meaningful ways.

Doing that you will destroy the topic entirely. Dont see the point.

Yet you do run into having too many categories brings just as many problems as too few categories.And another big
problem are when many posts span several categories, in which case it is difficult to decide where to put a post.

But its your forum i cant tell you what to do!Only suggest!

That's why I gave my idea of integrating a wiki in the forum, in order to summarize forum posts and get a proper knowledge base.

But this world require an army of OCD nuts, of course.

You have Mr. Parkinson, I have Mr. Distracted (ADHD). So I have somehow reverse Parkinson, with still awful psychomotor skills and others that are slowly improving work usage. Fortunately, I also look younger than I am.

Forums are nice, but information finally gets too messy. The same questions get asked a zillion times and we sometimes are to lazy to find properly or afraid of necroposting.

So people do the same question again, someone consider certain information should be organized and collected. Here the wiki goes to the rescue and chaos gets reduced!

Here's my proposal, feel free to participate!

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/suggestions/suggestion-wiki-structure-improvement/


Anyway, my idea isn't going to be taken seriously. I'm a n00b, after all.

[grifftech]

how about mains voltage
 

[Shock]

Back on topic, the plans on design or integration advice are an amusing read. If only you knew how much work changing a few pages is, integrating or migrating technologies is what Dave would have nightmares over.

The most important aspects in a forum is that it looks good, is fast, accessible and user friendly.

The only thing I see being an issue with my suggestion in the previous post is the layout of the main forum landing page does not emphasize the child forums so they are easy to miss, and as it stands the whole page when viewed with default browser settings is rather long. So in my opinion there are design issues in the menu layout to overcome in order to get the best out of navigation.

The emphasis on menu usage was mention previously, I can tell you it's vital for easy navigation of the forum and non logged in visitors, and instrumental in attracting new members or repeat visitors based on their navigation experience. The  "show unread posts" should not be seen as an excuse to ignore the menu system as that feature is used in very specific circumstances for certain members, the navigation menu however is used by the majority of all visitors.

how about mains voltage

If you want mains voltage you can normally find it distributed around your house.

[alho]

Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff
        Projects
                Crowd Funded Projects

Electronics Equipment
        Test Equipment
            - Oscilloscopes, Multimeters ...
        Tools
            - Soldering irons, Microscopes ...

Products & Repair

[Poe]

I tend to prefer just enough sub categories that today's earliest post is not more than one or two pages back.

Although here on the EEVblog.. if the search function can't improve, more sub categories might help finding things.

[timofonic]

<html>
   <head>
      <title></title>
   </head>
   <body>
      <ul>
         <li>
            Beginner</li>
         <li>
            Primer material (organized by themes)</li>
         <li>
            Questions
            <ul>
               <li>
                  Homework: For those of us unable to pay a private tutor and having a hard time understanding things or limited concentration span but want to learn a lot.</li>
            </ul>
         </li>
         <li>
            <p>
               Check my design, please</p>
         </li>
         <li>
            Fixing: For those wanting to fix their non-TE devices like a TV, phone, etc.
            <ul>
               <li>
                  Service manuals.</li>
            </ul>
         </li>
      </ul>
      <p>
         &nbsp;</p>
      <ul>
         <li>
            PCB Design (general)</li>
      </ul>
      <p>
         &nbsp;</p>
      <ul>
         <li>
            <strong>Projects</strong> (it only makes sense to make them open hardware)
            <ul>
               <li>
                  <strong>Modifications:</strong> Convert the device into something else different, improve features, unlock stuff, etc.</li>
               <li>
                  <strong>Planning:</strong> It could provide advices about how to start the project, better approachs, interesting information sources, etc.
                  <ul>
                     <li>
                        Retrocomputing/retrogramming.</li>
                     <li>
                        Automation.</li>
                     <li>
                        Equipment</li>
                     <li>
                        Etc</li>
                  </ul>
               </li>
               <li>
                  <strong>In-progress:</strong> It can be used as a diary of the project, plus others could provide assistance and watch what&rsquo;s happening.
                  <ul>
                     <li>
                        Retrocomputing/retrogramming.</li>
                     <li>
                        Automation.</li>
                     <li>
                        Equipment</li>
                     <li>
                        Etc</li>
                  </ul>
               </li>
               <li>
                  <strong>Finished:</strong> Initial page with proper summary
                  <ul>
                     <li>
                        Retrocomputing/retrogramming.</li>
                     <li>
                        Automation.</li>
                     <li>
                        Equipment</li>
                     <li>
                        Etc.</li>
                  </ul>
               </li>
            </ul>
         </li>
         <li>
            <strong>Contests:</strong> Contests like those for making computers using 74xx chips, but more useful.
            <ul>
               <li>
                  Retrocomputing/retrogramming.</li>
               <li>
                  Automation.</li>
               <li>
                  Equipment.</li>
               <li>
                  Etc.</li>
            </ul>
         </li>
         <li>
            Electronics software
            <ul>
               <li>
                  EDA
                  <ul>
                     <li>
                        KiCad.</li>
                     <li>
                        gEDA.</li>
                     <li>
                        DIPtrace.</li>
                     <li>
                        Eagle.</li>
                     <li>
                        Proteus.</li>
                     <li>
                        Altium Designer.</li>
                     <li>
                        DesignSpark.</li>
                     <li>
                        MultiSim.</li>
                     <li>
                        Allegro/OrCAD</li>
                  </ul>
               </li>
            </ul>
         </li>
      </ul>
      <p>
         &nbsp;</p>
      <ul style="margin-left: 40px;">
         <li>
            Simulators:
            <ul>
               <li>
                  LTSpice.</li>
               <li>
                  QUCS.</li>
               <li>
                  PSPice.</li>
               <li>
                  etc.</li>
            </ul>
         </li>
      </ul>
      <p>
         &nbsp;</p>
      <ul>
         <li>
            RF
            <ul>
               <li>
                  Radio and Communication</li>
               <li>
                  Blabla</li>
            </ul>
         </li>
      </ul>
      <p>
         &nbsp;</p>
      <ul>
         <li>
            Components
            <ul>
               <li>
                  Documentation &amp; Datasheets</li>
               <li>
                  Part finding</li>
            </ul>
         </li>
         <li>
            <p>
               Analog</p>
            <ul>
               <li>
                  <p>
                     TBD</p>
               </li>
            </ul>
         </li>
         <li>
            Binary zone</li>
         <li>
            ICs.
            <ul>
               <li>
                  Jelly Beans:555, 74xx, 40xx..</li>
            </ul>
         </li>
         <li>
            Programming languages</li>
         <li>
            <p>
               Embedded &amp; MCUs</p>
            <ul>
               <li>
                  <p>
                     <strong>Atmel</strong></p>
                  <ul>
                     <li>
                        <p>
                           Arduino.</p>
                     </li>
                     <li>
                        <p>
                           TTninox or whatever.</p>
                     </li>
                     <li>
                        <p>
                           Others.</p>
                     </li>
                  </ul>
               </li>
               <li>
                  <p>
                     Microchip</p>
               </li>
               <li>
                  <p>
                     TI</p>
               </li>
               <li>
                  <p>
                     MSP430.</p>
                  <ul>
                     <li>
                        <p>
                           MSPwhatever</p>
                     </li>
                  </ul>
               </li>
               <li>
                  <p>
                     STM.</p>
               </li>
               <li>
                  <p>
                     Renesas</p>
               </li>
               <li>
                  <p>
                     ARM</p>
                  <ul>
                     <li>
                        <p>
                           Raspberry Pi, Beaglebone, Cubieboard, etc.</p>
                     </li>
                  </ul>
               </li>
               <li>
                  <p>
                     Programmable Logic Devices:</p>
                  <ul>
                     <li>
                        <p>
                           CPLD</p>
                     </li>
                     <li>
                        <p>
                           FPGA, etc.</p>
                     </li>
                     <li>
                        <p>
                           DSPs</p>
                     </li>
                  </ul>
               </li>
            </ul>
         </li>
      </ul>
      <p>
         &nbsp;</p>
      <ul>
         <li>
            Computing and Networks
            <ul>
               <li>
                  <p>
                     Operating Systems</p>
                  <ul>
                     <li>
                        <p>
                           Windows</p>
                     </li>
                     <li>
                        <p>
                           Linux</p>
                     </li>
                     <li>
                        <p>
                           Mac</p>
                     </li>
                     <li>
                        <p>
                           Other</p>
                     </li>
                  </ul>
               </li>
            </ul>
         </li>
      </ul>
      <p>
         &nbsp;</p>
      <ul>
         <li>
            <p>
               Trading, exchange &amp; group buy</p>
         </li>
      </ul>
      <p>
         &nbsp;</p>
      <ul>
         <li>
            Manufacturing &amp; Assembly
            <ul>
               <li>
                  PCBs</li>
               <li>
                  Pick &amp; Place</li>
               <li>
                  PCB manufacturing services: Sincere reviews, no astroturfing.</li>
            </ul>
         </li>
         <li>
            <p>
               Mechanical constructions/Hardware</p>
         </li>
         <li>
            <p style="margin-left: 40px;">
               CNC</p>
         </li>
         <li>
            <p style="margin-left: 40px;">
               Bricolage: Enclosure design &amp; manufacturing, woodworking, etc</p>
         </li>
      </ul>
      <p>
         &nbsp;</p>
      <ul>
         <li>
            Equipment
            <ul>
               <li>
                  Oscilloscopes</li>
               <li>
                  DMMs</li>
               <li>
                  Soldering/Desoldering</li>
               <li>
                  Other (open more if needed)</li>
               <li>
                  Repair</li>
            </ul>
         </li>
         <li>
            <p>
               Buy/Sell/Wanted</p>
         </li>
         <li>
            Blogs
            <ul>
               <li>
                  EEVblog
                  <ul>
                     <li>
                        News</li>
                     <li>
                        <strong>Suggestions </strong></li>
                     <li>
                        EEVBlab</li>
                     <li>
                        Amphour</li>
                  </ul>
               </li>
               <li>
                  Others</li>
            </ul>
         </li>
      </ul>
      <ul>
         <li>
            Contests</li>
      </ul>
      <ul>
         <li>
            Employment
            <ul>
               <li>
                  Job requests
                  <ul>
                     <li>
                        Freelancers</li>
                  </ul>
               </li>
            </ul>
         </li>
         <li>
            <p>
               Work wanted</p>
         </li>
         <li>
            <p>
               General chatting</p>
         </li>
      </ul>
   </body>
</html>


Inspiration sources:
http://electronics-lab.com/community/
http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/
http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/

What would improve the new visitors' visiting experience, and encourage new visitors' re-visit would probably be an ability to have sub-threads.  Under the UT61E thread, there may be a sub-thread on back-light mod, another sub-thread on the UT61E calibration, another sub-thread on external voltage reference...

Not possible with this forum software.
And it would be a dog to maintain, and people would have to vigilant about sticking to it. That won't ever happen.

Forums are not wikipedia information resourses, they are as their name suggests, forum where people discus stuff.

You have a point, but too bad.  I think that will attract more newbies.

Yes, but then it's no longer a forum, and people would stop using it as such.
You can't have a discussion forum and a wiki like information repository in the same place, it's just not possible.

Sorry, Dave. But i disagree very strongly about your ideas, I hope it doesn't annoy you. I hope we can understand each other about this, I'm not alone about the idea.

I really hope it doesn't become a Wikipedia information resource, but a more seriously and troll/moron-proof maintained one.

I'm sure there are quite experienced people here in this community in order to do something useful and maintain or even improve the quality of the site.

What's wrong about not becoming a forum nor a wiki if it becomes something that surpasses both ideas? I don't think mixing would make it worse, just it needs the correct formula for it.

My personal example:

GeekHack was a mixed wiki+forum approach and the quality was SuperB. It was funny and amusing to read these geeks talking about keyboards, mices, trackballs and how to hack them.

* These days it's an awful mess of morons, "artisans" that sell painted or 3D printed keyboard keycaps for over 200 EUR and other shit.
* It's impossible to navigate the forums without feeling totally dumb, seeing a retarded hipstery movement everywhere.

We can ask people like:

* The one from Talking Electronics to submit content to the wiki: He has nice information that needs to be spread better. Some graphics improvements and formatting would make it shine, too.
* Other frequent visitors that are quite skilled, too. I don't remember their names right now

=> The main issue: Provide motivation, good feedback.


Look at AllAboutCircuitsSections, they are very well done:

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/education/
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/giveaways/
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/industry-articles/


(I'm tired, I had insomn and got unable to sleep despite hardcore hypnotics. I'll improve this reply later)

Instead I would opt for a better search function. At least then we're better able to find stuff again.

[2c]

A lot better search function with Boolean operators is urgently needed, I agree.

(I'm extremely tired, pills take effect after tons of hours!)

See you.

[miguelvp]

I'm sorry but that's a ton of extra categories and sub-categories, and the organization of those is way different than what we have now.

A few more that Dave finds pertinent it's OK, for extra categories or sub-categories, I think the bringing them up as warranted or needed and Dave deciding if to add it based on the community feedback has been working just fine.

The strength of this forum is the members and how much they are engaged compared to other forums. Why are more engaged here than other places? Maybe, just Maybe, it's because the current structure works for most of us.

Of course that's just my opinion and observation.

Edit: look at the poll, only the minority wants a lot of subcategories, the majority only wants a couple added.

[Brumby]

I think Dave will appreciate all ideas offered.  What gets implemented, though, will be tempered with practicality.

[EEVblog]

FYI, I'm playing around with stuff now and it will show up live.
Don't worry, nothing will get broken. Moving categories around and creating new categories has zero risk to existing content and URL's.
Unless you frequent the main page, you won't notice anything different.

[Brumby]

... and some people getting lost while it happens.



Think I'll be better off cleaning up my workbench tonight.

[tggzzz]

FYI, I'm playing around with stuff now and it will show up live.
Don't worry, nothing will get broken. Moving categories around and creating new categories has zero risk to existing content and URL's.
Unless you frequent the main page, you won't notice anything different.

Ther's a new RF and Microwave section; thank you.

[xrunner]

Yes it needs a re-org, but you probably have enough ideas already on what to add / remove.

One thing I would suggest is to change the description of Repair

Currently it's this -


Repair
Trying to repair something? Ask in here.

But, many people like to show off how to repair / restore something (like me), not asking for help, so I would change it to this -


Repair
Ask for repair help or describe how to repair equipment

Thank you

[EEVblog]

Can we get more "recent posts" at the bottom of the mian page - this his how I tend to randomly browse.

I vote for this one

Upped from 20 to 50.

[EEVblog]

Yes, but then it's no longer a forum, and people would stop using it as such.
You can't have a discussion forum and a wiki like information repository in the same place, it's just not possible.

Sorry, Dave. But i disagree very strongly about your ideas, I hope it doesn't annoy you. I hope we can understand each other about this, I'm not alone about the idea.
I really hope it doesn't become a Wikipedia information resource, but a more seriously and troll/moron-proof maintained one.
I'm sure there are quite experienced people here in this community in order to do something useful and maintain or even improve the quality of the site.
What's wrong about not becoming a forum nor a wiki if it becomes something that surpasses both ideas?

And how is this done?
What software is available does this?
There is:
a) No way we are moving away from the SMF forum software, that would be suicide.
b) No mod for SMF that does anything remotely like what you want.

Wiki's and BBS style forums exist for a reason, because they do specific job and do them well.
Trying to create some jack-all-trades forum/wiki/resource system is a bad idea and would be a massive amount of endless work. It's not going to happen.

We can ask people like:
* The one from Talking Electronics to submit content to the wiki: He has nice information that needs to be spread better.

Colin spent decades making all that information available. It's a full time job for years for someone to re-do it all.

Look at AllAboutCircuitsSections, they are very well done:
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/education/

Sure, it's great, and how many years did he spend writing all that stuff?

Do you notice a trend with the two examples you have mentioned? Both were done by one very dedicated person.

Look, I'd love to have a curated knowledge repository like that, but aside from a Wiki (which we already have) and massive community participation, I don't see it happening.
And without a massive custom coding effort, it's not going to be integrated with the forum. Even AllAboutCircuits realises that. Horses for courses.

[DavidMenting]

I'm missing a very important option in the poll: fewer subcategories.

Using the topic title to figure out what's interesting. I'm interested in pretty much everything that's going on here, and having to open up different tabs with different categories is a needless hassle. Usually, I just press 'Show all unread' and filter through there. I can't imagine I'm the only one.

[Karel]

Can we get more "recent posts" at the bottom of the mian page - this his how I tend to randomly browse.

I vote for this one

Upped from 20 to 50.

+1 Thanks.

[Wuerstchenhund]

I like the new structure. Glad that the Thermal Imaging stuff finally got its own sub-section 

Just one thing: can I suggest to change the name of the "Products" section to something like "Tools & Accessories" instead, which I believe is more appropriate? Unless of course you plan to add other sub-categories like "Dog food", "Furniture" "Female hygiene" or "Lingerie"

[Wuerstchenhund]

It would be great to have a running summary/ranking of test gear that have been reviewed/torn-down.
Top 10 lists for
Meters (Premium/Midrange/Budget)
Osciloscopes (Premium/Midrange/Budget)
Bench Power Supplies
Signal Generators
etc...

I don't think that is really possible, at least not with complex instruments like oscilloscopes.  Simply because the "best" instrument can't just be identified by looking at specs and price (or at Dave's review), it also very much depends on what the user actually intends to achieve (i.e. what the measurement problem is).

Just have a look at the test instrument section, which is full of threads where people search for a suitable instrument that does a particular job, and most of them come with specific individual requirements.

In addition, such a list would need to be maintained/updated for new gear (including instruments Dave didn't get for testing) and retired products would need to be taken off. It also would leave out the big alternative to buying new kit which is the 2nd hand market, which for many situations is a viable (and often more economical) option.

[Wuerstchenhund]

What would be fine is a much longer threadview so maybe also 100/200/inedefinitly posts per page could be realised (even 50 are not enough for me) . Threads like the LTZ1000, Rigol 1054 or E4 would be easier for reading (I do have enough bandwith for this and scrolling is easier then reloading a new page with only 50 comments.

  +1

I can't agree more! It's so annoying that I can only display 50 comments per page  This makes reading through longer threads so much more painful.

There's also no real sane reason I can think of why the 50 message limit needs to be there in the first place. SMF 2.0 certainly doesn't need it (it can handle a virtually unlimited number of post) so seriously, why is it there?

Please Dave, either get rid of the limit (set it to "0" which is unlimited), or at least set it to something reasonable, say 1000 or so.

I see posts in the wrong place all the time.

I do, too. I think there needs to be a bigger push to make people post into the right category, not just by admins but also by other members.

[onlooker]

Can we get more "recent posts" at the bottom of the mian page - this his how I tend to randomly browse.

I vote for this one

Upped from 20 to 50.

I would prefer 2 changes:

1). change "recent posts" to "recent updated topics/threads", so the list would show one item per topic, instead of, one item per post.

2). Let  the list show 20 items on the start (as before) and add a "more" button to have the option to show 20 more and further 20 more if desired.

[Syntax_Error]

Excellent reorg, Dave. I like it a lot.

Think of the calls for a wiki as a compliment. People here are very pleased with the quality of your forum and your blogging, and it is natural to want *you* to produce other products they have want for, such as a wiki. I understand that you don't have the time to do it all, but the call to action is definitely a compliment to you and your work, and a vote of confidence that you would produce a good one if you chose to.

In any case, I dig the new format. Different in critical ways, but not unrecognizable from its former incarnation. Perfect.

[DimitriP]

Since you asked .....

A place for  for "whining about better search facility/wiki". Yeah!

And another one for all the "What XYX should I buy?" / "Best XYZ to buy".
Presales/Prepurchase advice with sections on the usual suspects
Probes
DMM
Oscilloscope
Power Supplies
Soldering Equipment
Sourcing components (because there is no such thing as "ebay resistors" or "Amazon resistors").