IMPORTANT POLL: Should there be an off-topic section?

[JPortici]

I voted "i don't care" but i actually like how things are right now. The way off topic is tolerated/moderated in this section instead of a dedicated section

[mcinque]

dominate the "unread posts since last visit" list and could potentially put off newbies who joins and just see a list of gun and religious debates at the top of the list.

^THIS

[thm_w]

Agree.
No religion, politics, gun, etc. please. Other off-topic content might be ok (as cooking is? haven't read anything there).

[Sal Ammoniac]

I'm a heavy user of another technical forum, and it has "anything goes" sections, including one devoted to politics. Although discussions are often heated these sections (especially politics), I've never noticed anyone being less than civil to others in the technical sections, even those they've had knockdown, drag out arguments with in the political section--they seem to leave any animosity behind in the off-topic sections.

Caveat: this forum isn't anonymous--people don't use made-up names--they use callsigns, and callsigns can be looked up in databases and resolved to real names and addresses.

[thm_w]

I'm a heavy user of another technical forum, and it has "anything goes" sections, including one devoted to politics. Although discussions are often heated these sections (especially politics), I've never noticed anyone being less than civil to others in the technical sections, even those they've had knockdown, drag out arguments with in the political section--they seem to leave any animosity behind in the off-topic sections.

Caveat: this forum isn't anonymous--people don't use made-up names--they use callsigns, and callsigns can be looked up in databases and resolved to real names and addresses.

Feel free to name the forum.

[Muttley Snickers]

If general discussion topics are allowed then I think they should be semi-concealed in the same manner as the Supporters Lounge, that way they will not show up in Google searches or pollute the Recent Posts table on the landing page for those not logged in. ie: Guests.

It also means that those who use this new section are more likely to be established members who already know the forum rules and routines, they can lead by example and call out those who cross the line. If you want to read the gossip then you need to sign up and log in, if you are just here for the waffle then go to the cooking section.   

[Halcyon]

If general discussion topics are allowed then I think they should be semi-concealed in the same manner as the Supporters Lounge, that way they will not show up in Google searches or pollute the Recent Posts table on the landing page for those not logged in. ie: Guests.

It also means that those who use this new section are more likely to be established members who already know the forum rules and routines, they can lead by example and call out those who cross the line. If you want to read the gossip then you need to sign up and log in, if you are just here for the waffle then go to the cooking section.   

I think you make a great point. If Dave was to implement such a section, it shouldn't be promoted or really visible outside the forum itself.

It also probably shouldn't show up in the "global" unread posts/new posts count.

[EEVblog]

EEVblog will become yet another no-identity swamp of sheeple to be steered.  Is that what you want?

I don't image it it ever becoming that, and I think it's a tad melodramic to claim that having one off-topic board (that can be ignored) would lead to that.

Most probably an off-topic section will split the community even further, making others to live, either one by one, or in groups (to make their own forums someplace else), similar with what just happened after the TEA moderation incident only a few days ago.

Ironically, it seems that if there was and off-topic section then the TEA thing would never have happened.

I thought about putting an extar option in the poll, that being to have an off-topic section, but retain the same hot-button topic rules as is currently in place.
So if people want to talk about house flipping or goat herding with their friends here they can do that.

[EEVblog]

If this is just to ask because it seemed like a reasonable time to ask, then I ask: "What do you intend to achieve with such a change?".  I have a feeling the answer will circle back to my first point above.

Obviously the goal would be to "achieve" a better forum where people spend more time here and have fun discussing stuff they are intersted in.
Ignoring the list of the usual hot-button topics, if someone wanted to talk about, for example, renovating their house. Under the current system such a thread would be deemed off-topic and would likely be closed if it was spotted.
In an off-topic section this would be allowed and anyone with a similar interest could join in. They might even form a little "community" of people interested in renovations.

I can see it getting out of hand of course, but I can also see it working.

[EEVblog]

But if you suddenly introduce politics in a sports bar you'll get bar fights and stabbings every night.

Once again I am asking how come 'off topic' means 'political fighting'. There are other topics besides electronics and politics. You can certainly have an off-topic section and still mandate no politics (or the other stuff that quickly degenerates into a bunfight). You can even allow all those and still step in when it gets nasty.

I haven't marked the poll because I don't understand what's being asked. I thought it meant 'we can talk about random stuff, like painting walls and how to stop slugs eating the rhubard', but the way everyone is going on it means 'completely hands-off, moderators will be missing in action and you WILL be insulted enough to want to leave'.

So maybe someone can be clear about what this OT thing will actually be, and then we can vote from the position of knowledge.

As I mentioned above, there probably should be another poll option for "OT is fine, but keep the same hot-button topic ban list".
You are right, off-topic doesn't have to mean free-for-all.
We literally already have an entire off-topic section here called Cooking.

[EEVblog]

If general discussion topics are allowed then I think they should be semi-concealed in the same manner as the Supporters Lounge, that way they will not show up in Google searches or pollute the Recent Posts table on the landing page for those not logged in. ie: Guests.

That would be a given. It seems that majority that want it do want the 50 post Regular Contributor threshold.

[EEVblog]

It also probably shouldn't show up in the "global" unread posts/new posts count.

I don't think that's technically possible. Anyone with access to see it will have it show up as normal on count and unread posts lists, unless they deliberately add it to their Ignore Board list.

[Brumby]

Ironically, it seems that if there was and off-topic section then the TEA thing would never have happened.

Absolutely, categorically, definitively, demonstrably and unequivocally incorrect.  IMHO

There are members here who have been following the TEA thread for a number of years and are very well aware of the background to the recent kerfuffle.

In short, it centred on off-topic content being dropped into the TEA thread in increasing frequency and quantity, much to the annoyance of many - only some of whom were vocal.  The responsible parties were somewhat resistant to the idea of getting back on track, ignoring or objecting to suggestions that they do.  In some cases efforts were made to try and justify their actions by attempting to redefine the purpose of the TEA thread.

The simple fact that pretty much all the OT content which could have been posted in threads of their own (that would not have raised an eyebrow) but weren't demonstrates the alternate location conversation is purely a smokescreen and utter hogwash (IMHO).

Where the wheels fell off, though, is when things reached the limit of tolerance and we arrived at the point of the last straw.  Members' frustrations that had been building were vented and the Moderators found themselves in the middle of a hurricane and were obligated to take action in an unprecedented situation.

Regarding the issue in hand, from what I see in terms of offtopic (and I'm also one that sometimes fall in such) normally it tends to go to 3 or 4 posts and then tones down

This is exactly how things have run in the TEA thread for years - and I don't think there were any major reactions to that happening.  I know I glanced at that stuff and just skipped along to the next interesting bit.  It seems the TEA thread is settling down to continue as it did before - and that is a good thing.

It is unfortunate we have had some members move on - but I would welcome them back if the OT in specific threads was down in the noise floor - not at +120dB.

[Black Phoenix]

It is unfortunate we have had some members move on - but I would welcome them back if the OT in specific threads was down in the noise floor - not at +120dB.

I know of one such member gone that fits this criteria perfectly to the dot...

[james_s]

As I mentioned above, there probably should be another poll option for "OT is fine, but keep the same hot-button topic ban list".
You are right, off-topic doesn't have to mean free-for-all.
We literally already have an entire off-topic section here called Cooking.

I noticed that as well, although I don't think I've ever participated in that section. I do think that keeping the off topic stuff cordoned off so that it doesn't pollute the recent threads and search engine results is a good idea. I don't think it's a terrible idea to have a separate pub-like place where people can discuss other topics. Goes without saying that there should be SOME rules though. Stuff like no personal attacks, no politics unless it is related to engineering somehow, no religion, etc seems reasonable. I don't feel super strongly about it one way or another though since threads that have run their course are often allowed to stray a bit off topic without getting shut down.

[EEVblog]

dominate the "unread posts since last visit" list and could potentially put off newbies who joins and just see a list of gun and religious debates at the top of the list.

^THIS

This is completely avoidable by having the off-topic section invisible to Newbies

[beanflying]

One forum.

One set of Rules.

One set of Moderators.

Anything different to this just allows the muppets to go look over there it is ok and because of 'reasons' it should be ok here too. Just don't do it!



If any section like this is in plain sight you will get smacked for SEO by it.

AND

If the recent petulant children issue recently with TEA has shown ANYTHING a high post count means squat when it comes to doing the right thing when asked by you or the mods so limiting it to members of post count X or higher is just not justified and the content from members below that level of X posts is often the more fresh point of view and worth hearing.

OR IF YOU MUST

You set up a Discord server some time ago and apart from the random drive by post it is largely empty in spite of some of us trying it on for size early in the piece. Much as you don't widely promote it's existence maybe and just as a maybe make it a topic/board redirect link from the forum and switch Discord to a more off topic? I suspect most will simply ignore it. But as it is off forum and effectively not indexed this place will stay more on topic and higher up any SEO ranking.

[EEVblog]

Ironically, it seems that if there was and off-topic section then the TEA thing would never have happened.

Absolutely, categorically, definitively, demonstrably and unequivocally incorrect.  IMHO

I should have added "according to some of them (the ones that left)". They have said and implied that they would have stayed if off-topic discussion was not policed.
I know there are other reasons as well.
Literal quote here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/tea/emptiness/msg4393246/#msg4393246

If Dave is unwilling to give us a real OT space... lets at least see if the chain-link fence he put up around the old TEAnonymous stronghold is enough make the whiners whine somewhere else.

[EEVblog]

At this stage in the poll it's looking like the majority don't want this.

I just had an idea. Would anyone be interested in an "Off-Topic Projects" section? You could post your latest non-electronics related project, like you built a nice new deck, restored your car etc.
THANKS this post if you agree.

[Brumby]

My personal opinion ... not especially.

People can still do this as things stand anyway - and they have.  It might be a reach when picking a board, but I don't think people would really care too much.  Call it "Fringe Electronic Topic", maybe.

If the fact that the structure leans towards technical aspects of the world has anything to do with my thoughts - it's that this is what attracted me to the EEVblog (along with the Altronics K3330 power supply you had in the background of early videos ... I have one).

[Brumby]

I should have added "according to some of them (the ones that left)". They have said and implied that they would have stayed if off-topic discussion was not policed.
I know there are other reasons as well.
Literal quote here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/tea/emptiness/msg4393246/#msg4393246

If Dave is unwilling to give us a real OT space... lets at least see if the chain-link fence he put up around the old TEAnonymous stronghold is enough make the whiners whine somewhere else.

  *** No comment ***

[Ed.Kloonk]

At this stage in the poll it's looking like the majority don't want this.

That's too bad. I've waited a very long time to finally read certain words you put in the OP.

I wonder if it worth pointing out to those frightened by (the result of) contentious topics is that in the last couple of years, many people have started to accept that opinions do differ. More importantly opinions are like butt holes. Don't get me wrong, there still are numpties who cannot move forward. Good thing Twitter exists.

[EEVblog]

CHANGE: I've changed the poll title to reflect the community opinion if the existing hot-button topic rules REMAIN.
Feel free to re-cast your vote accordingly.

[beanflying]

We also did this along similar lines 18 months ago https://www.eevblog.com/forum/news/new-off-topic-hobbies-section/msg3438190/#msg3438190

[EEVblog]

We also did this along similar lines 18 months ago https://www.eevblog.com/forum/news/new-off-topic-hobbies-section/msg3438190/#msg3438190

Forgot about that.
Ian.M made a good case for an Aerospace interest section:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/news/new-off-topic-hobbies-section/msg3837134/#msg3837134