EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: Stonent on July 14, 2013, 06:46:33 am
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I don't know if these are intentional or not but I find some Ebay listings frustrating when they sell an item as used which is defined by Ebay as:
Used: An item that has been used previously. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended. This item may be a floor model or store return that has been used. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections.
But then the title says:
Acme Widget Model 7 (For Repair)
And the description:
This unit was purchased from a working electronics shop and has not been tested at our facility. It is missing the top cover.
So what would you believe reading all that? If I take this literally, I would be led to believe it is fully functional but missing a cover and the repair would be to replace the top cover.
Regardless if they tested it, they still marked it as used. If it didn't work I could return it because used means functional, right?
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Regardless if they tested it, they still marked it as used. If it didn't work I could return it because used means functional, right?
Since I buy used multimeters, I run into this situation all the time. As you highlighted, ebay used means "but is fully operational and functions as intended".
When I get a multimeter with a blown fuse, it is not operating as intended. Some sellers don't understand that the fuse is used for current measurement and insist because the multimeter powers up, the fuse must be good.
Others suggest I return the multimeter, but then I lose my original shipping costs. Either way, I always ask for clarification and never trust the "used" description.
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I suppose you could say to those sellers when they said "well it powered on" is "A car with a bad transmission will still start"
The item I was looking at was an older HP scope that was marked buy it now for much cheaper than what you would expect. It was marked used, but untested and missing the metal cover.
I did post a question asking for clarification, but in theory you could buy it and say "well it didn't work and you marked it as used so you have to refund it."
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My advice...Don't' try to fight ebay. Get to know the rules and be a smart consumer. I know some of the listings are back-aswards. But ebay has gone above and beyond to protect the buyer. You really can't complain. Instead, learn the rules, and use them to your advantage. As I said, ebay/paypal is HUGELY for the buyer - you - have all the control. And no reason to complain at all....like zero.....
Caveat emptor.
For example, I recently bought a counter. The listing described it as "used" fully functional" - the buyer's description said "NO RETURNS" - it turns out the counter was perfect - and accurate. But - if it wasn't - I could have still gotten my money back and returned it. Yea, I'd have to pay return shipping, but that's life....
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Greetings EEVBees:
--I also, buy and sell used DMMs (Fluke) on eBay. The last 87V I bought had to be returned because the mainboard amperage section was blown. I was not able to discover this until I replaced a blown fuse. The owner allowed me credit for the blown fuse. When I asked to return the item he said "no way jack", the item was in perfect condition when it left here. He also warned me not to try returning a different meter as he had made secret marks on his, what a maroon. So of course eBay made him take it back. I gave him bad feedback and told the whole story on eBay. The only other cases where I have left bad feedback is extremely late shipments from China. In one case I had to buy another item because I had given up all hope. Then they expected me to pony up when the item arrived after 60 days, no way jack. I have also had a shorted out power supply jack for a laptop (99 cents). They offered me back my 99 cents if I would only change the feedback. I told them if they promised to quit selling that item I would change the feedback, silence. My last purchase was a Fluke 87, which arrived with one blown fuse and one fuse for an 87V, and was doing the amps warning peeps. The seller was kind enough to make an adjustment and, I replaced the fuses. I was able to stop the peeping by desoldering the jack receptacle and cleaning the main board traces with acetone. So in one case I escaped unharmed, in the other I was forced to leave a few toes behind.
--Obviously, a lot of people do not test each and every function and fuse (as I do) before selling electronic instruments, and just hope for the best. Experience has taught me to ask about the amps function on all DMM offers. And, I always ask about cracked screens when buying TVs and monitors. But I still love eBay and PayPal.
"Measure twice. Cut once"
Norm Abram 1950 -
Best Regards
Clear Ether
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It has been said many times before: check the feedback and look at some other listings from the same seller. Also do your research on the item. Using Google its not difficult to find whether a piece of equipment has common flaws and how to spot them. Many sellers on Ebay have no clue about what they are selling so have no idea how to describe it properly.
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When you make a listing, all you see in the drop down box is "New, Never Been Used, Used, For Parts or Not Working". Many sellers probably don't even realise ebay adds all that extra crap.
If the DESCRIPTION says otherwise, go with the DESCRIPTION. That is what it's there for. You will get no recourse if you go "but it said at the top there and I didn't read the description". Ignorance or feigned ignorance will not get you anywhere ;)
Items that are clearly faulty/broken/damaged should definitely be in the for part or not working category though.
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It's a lot better than it used to be,I bought a video card years ago that wasn't at all what was in the picture so I contacted the guy, he said it was my tough luck so I stopped payment and contacted ebay about it, needless to say he was a little mad and we exchanged nasty emails for several weeks. He finally ended getting banned from selling after he had done the same thing to 50 or 60 more people.
You can get some good deals on Ebay but the due diligence is all on you.
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If the DESCRIPTION says otherwise, go with the DESCRIPTION.
Yeah; exactly. If the description says "for parts", are you going to believe that, which the seller actually had to type in, or some formal eBay legalese definition of "used", which they may not even have read?
Presumably, if it is important, you can ask the seller for details. Non-response is its own sort of "info."
Don't forget that a lot of electronics on eBay is sold by people with little knowledge of electronics. "This showed up in a lot of "used" stuff that I bought for something else that was on the pallet, but I don't want it and don't even know how to check whether it's working." Or "Dad passed away and left behind this garage full of stuff that no one in the family is interested in dealing with."
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When I get a multimeter with a blown fuse, it is not operating as intended. Some sellers don't understand that the fuse is used for current measurement and insist because the multimeter powers up, the fuse must be good.
Oscilloscopes here. Those often have power lamps. Most sellers don't understand that the power lamp only indicates that the power lamp is operational.
You can't trust a damn thing the sellers say, have the time they have no idea what they're selling.
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Well if this gets abused I think it would be the fault of the seller. According to Ebay, the seller is responsible for the accuracy of what is sold, not the buyer.
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I think the bottom line is this:
There are two reasons someone lists something "used, but we don't have the capability to test it fully". Either they know it doesn't work right and are hiding behind that language, or they know that electronics stuff often has a lot of details, parameters and features and they can't test them all. I can see both sides... imagine if I bought a power supply that is supposed to be within 1% and it was at 1.5% at it's maximum setting. Well, it's out of spec and not functioning as per design. But if I am a guy who buys huge amounts of equipment and sells it on eBay, I may not be able to do all those tests.
Because of that, I tend to rely on asking questions, and on feedback. When you read "removed from production line, was working when removed"... it should be working. If you get it and it's not, then you got swindled. In these cases, eBay is pretty good about helping a buyer out.
Case in point, I am bidding on a power supply that is listed as used and sold as-is for parts, but removed from working environment. I almost like that sometimes because they often go cheap... and in many cases, stuff I have bought worked fine.
Having said that, I noticed there is a Quad IIIC Pick and Place on eBay that is listed as "used, good condition - no ability to test but removed from working production line". It's missing the control computer, and all the axis driver cards have been removed from the rear. It also has no feeders and looks in pretty beat-up condition. That guy is a shyster - there is no way that machine was removed from a working line. He will likely stand behind a "no refunds" or "Ok, but you pay return shipping" (that ends up costing $1k). So you just have to use your best judgement.
I was only burned once on a collectible radio control car (Tamiya Egress for those interested, described in "mint" condition). I got it and it was beat to shit... obviously had been used a ton and every part was work, scratched, etc. The seller claimed it was mint "for it's age" - and a lot of bickering ensued. I did end up keeping the car but got a lot of the $$ back (I was more happy just to send it back but he was avoiding that like the plague).
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IIn these cases, eBay is pretty good about helping a buyer out.
I'd add(and my point is that I already made) - they are not "good" at helping the buyer - They are great! Everything is 100% in the buyer's favor. That can be seen as a good thing or bad depending on who you are in the transaction. I think it's good.
The real question is - why isn't there a competitor to ebay? In most all bazillion dollar businesses there are at least 3-4 competitors. What is up with that?!?!?
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This unit was purchased from a working electronics shop and has not been tested at our facility. It is missing the top cover.
So what would you believe reading all that? If I take this literally, I would be led to believe it is fully functional but missing a cover and the repair would be to replace the top cover.
It is broken, someone had a go fixing it, but did not succeed, may have caused more damage and they were not arsed to replace the cover.
In saying that, I have done well when buying untested/for parts items. My best was buying a 'Don't know what it does and un-tested' video mixed for £50, using it for a year and selling it later for £350.
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IIn these cases, eBay is pretty good about helping a buyer out.
I'd add(and my point is that I already made) - they are not "good" at helping the buyer - They are great! Everything is 100% in the buyer's favor. That can be seen as a good thing or bad depending on who you are in the transaction. I think it's good.
The real question is - why isn't there a competitor to ebay? In most all bazillion dollar businesses there are at least 3-4 competitors. What is up with that?!?!?
Its simple: Ebay buys all the competition. In countries where Ebay didn't caught on at all (like in the Netherlands en Belgium) they bought the local online market places and kept them like they where. Pretty clever.
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Basically if they do not give out detailed information, i just move on.
I do not want to waste time, emailing the seller and asking for details on a product they are selling as they should mention it from the start.
I rather give my money to someone who adds details, datasheets and additional information in their listings.
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I'd add(and my point is that I already made) - they are not "good" at helping the buyer - They are great! Everything is 100% in the buyer's favor. That can be seen as a good thing or bad depending on who you are in the transaction. I think it's good.
I thought that too until I bought a scope that arrived with a hole in the CRT, and eBay said "too bad".