Author Topic: Induction cooking EMF magnitude vs other things? Missus is a bit concerned.  (Read 23510 times)

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Online coppice

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I think you'd have to be doing serious enough cooking to need the exhaust fan on anyway for the fumes from natural gas to matter. Certainly the basic cooking I do has not been a problem, I have a CO detector near my stove and I've never seen it register anything at all, just the natural convection seems to be enough to carry the draft up the vent hood whether the fan is on or not. There's a damper flap but it's not airtight. Burning gas with a blue flame is a lot different than burning solid fuel like wood or charcoal.
People were cooking with coal gas, LPG and methane hobs in their kitchens for a century before cooker hoods started to become common. The death toll seemed quite low.
 

Offline james_s

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People were cooking with coal gas, LPG and methane hobs in their kitchens for a century before cooker hoods started to become common. The death toll seemed quite low.


Houses were far less airtight in the past though. Modern homes are sealed up so well that they have to deliberately add all sorts of ventilation. I've been in old houses where you could feel the drafts on breezy days, that makes it a lot harder for fumes to accumulate.
 

Offline David Hess

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I think you'd have to be doing serious enough cooking to need the exhaust fan on anyway for the fumes from natural gas to matter. Certainly the basic cooking I do has not been a problem, I have a CO detector near my stove and I've never seen it register anything at all, just the natural convection seems to be enough to carry the draft up the vent hood whether the fan is on or not. There's a damper flap but it's not airtight. Burning gas with a blue flame is a lot different than burning solid fuel like wood or charcoal.

People were cooking with coal gas, LPG and methane hobs in their kitchens for a century before cooker hoods started to become common. The death toll seemed quite low.

Coal gas is very unlike LPG or methane.  It has a high enough CO content to kill you quickly if *not* burnt.  That is where the ideal of sticking your head in the oven to kill yourself comes from.

I have never had a problem cooking with residential natural gas and while we always had a fume hood, it was only used when otherwise the kitchen would be filled with smoke.
 

Offline David Hess

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There's a large gap between doomsday preppers and the sort of minor emergency like power outages that occur now and then in the winter. I do like being able to light my kitchen stove with a match, I don't get many power outages here but there's usually one every few years that lasts a day or two.

One week without power after an ice storm was enough to cause me to invest in a generator and both backup kerosene and propane heating.  We lose power here a couple times a year for most of a day.

 

Offline Ampera

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Living in the electric city, my area has lost power for a significant (over 10 minutes) amount of time twice in the last 10 years. So my statement about being able to use it without power isn't quite from experience.

My stove burns natural gas, and I have never in my life turned on the exhaust fan unless I needed to get some smoke out of the room, (I always test the smoke detector while cooking, with my cooking) and I haven't keeled over from CO2 poisoning.

If natural gas is a viable option, use it. We have municipal gas that comes from the street, so tanks aren't an issue for us. If you have a similar option, I wouldn't hesitate with gas.

As for the danger of induction cooking, there is more energy and harm from the EM radiation that comes from the sun or some powerful halogen lamps than an induction stovetop. If the alternative is an open fire that DOES consume oxygen, then neither are worse than each other going by anecdotal statistics alone.

As a person who likes to cook for myself, gas is the best way to work. You can control the heat WAY faster than you can induction. You don't really loose any amenities either, as my gas stove has piezoelectric spark plugs (get a pilot light stove if possible, though, as the sparkly on one of our burners works only about half the time, whereas a pilot light will always work unless it goes out, which is rare in my experience), electric oven, warming drawer, and broiler control, as well as a convection fan and timer.

Electric, in my opinion, is more suited to smaller installations, or installations where gas isn't practical. I see them as substitutes, and not alternatives. IMO tho.
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Offline tooki

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Dump the induction hob and buy a gas one, take it from someone who cooks every day and enjoys it.
Having cooked on various conventional electric stoves, gas, and induction: between gas and induction, what mattters more is the quality and power, not whether it’s gas or induction (with one caveat I’ll get to later). I’d rather a good induction stove over an anemic gas one. For a typical home stove, induction heats even faster than gas, turns off equally fast, and is easier to clean.

The big caveat is that not all pans work on induction. Cast iron, steel, and modern sandwich-construction pans work great. But pure copper or aluminum will not work at all. So IMHO induction can’t be a 100% replacement for a conventional stove. IKEA used to sell mini 2-burner stoves designed to be assembled like tiles into larger units. IMHO, two induction ones of those, plus one gas one, would be a dream stove.
 

Offline tooki

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Not everyone has access to gas. Those who do, in warmer climates, might not find the service charge worth it.
Yep. Many apartment buildings no longer run gas into the units, even if they have gas service in the basement for boilers and whatnot. (My parents’ condo is like that.)

So if gas isn’t an option, induction is a really great alternative, certainly superior to conventional glasstop electric (never mind older style electric).
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Not everyone has access to gas. Those who do, in warmer climates, might not find the service charge worth it.
Yep. Many apartment buildings no longer run gas into the units, even if they have gas service in the basement for boilers and whatnot. (My parents’ condo is like that.)

So if gas isn’t an option, induction is a really great alternative, certainly superior to conventional glasstop electric (never mind older style electric).
I think safety is a big reason why. Very few gas stoves have a safety shutoff in case the fire goes out, and then it becomes an explosion hazard. (Why there's no UL requirement for that when the cost to add it is minimal is beyond me.) A bare flame is also most likely to ignite spilled oil, while induction is least likely and even has sensors to prevent overheating.
The big caveat is that not all pans work on induction. Cast iron, steel, and modern sandwich-construction pans work great. But pure copper or aluminum will not work at all. So IMHO induction can’t be a 100% replacement for a conventional stove. IKEA used to sell mini 2-burner stoves designed to be assembled like tiles into larger units. IMHO, two induction ones of those, plus one gas one, would be a dream stove.
There are induction cookers that do work with copper or aluminum. The challenge is getting good efficiency when the pot is nearly as conductive as anything you can realistically make the primary coil out of. I remember reading that GaN would allow for higher frequencies that can work with the skin effect to our advantage.
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Offline Marco

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I see Panasonic does have IR temperature sensors now, guess it can work. Will cost you 1500$ for a 4 hob though.

For their commercial hobs they have one which can use copper and aluminium now too. Not that I really see the point, copper is pretty much a fashion accessory and the only aluminium pans I have are non stick and those are not exactly lifetime tools.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 05:39:44 pm by Marco »
 

Online coppice

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I think safety is a big reason why. Very few gas stoves have a safety shutoff in case the fire goes out, and then it becomes an explosion hazard. (Why there's no UL requirement for that when the cost to add it is minimal is beyond me.) A bare flame is also most likely to ignite spilled oil, while induction is least likely and even has sensors to prevent overheating.
In Europe I see very few gas hobs with a flame failure cutout. It surprises me there are so few accidents. In East Asia every hob I have seen has a cutout. They can be a pain sometimes, as the sensors are very sensitive to dirt, and you often have to clean them before the flame will stay on. They are, however, pretty safe.
 

Offline Iwanushka

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I think safety is a big reason why. Very few gas stoves have a safety shutoff in case the fire goes out, and then it becomes an explosion hazard. (Why there's no UL requirement for that when the cost to add it is minimal is beyond me.) A bare flame is also most likely to ignite spilled oil, while induction is least likely and even has sensors to prevent overheating.
In Europe I see very few gas hobs with a flame failure cutout. It surprises me there are so few accidents. In East Asia every hob I have seen has a cutout. They can be a pain sometimes, as the sensors are very sensitive to dirt, and you often have to clean them before the flame will stay on. They are, however, pretty safe.

Strange even my crappy 5+ year old 4 hob gas stove + eclectic oven made by electrolux for less than 300$ has gas leak protection which is annoying as hell it will even close valves if gas is burning for less than 10sec and Im from Eastern Europe  where they sell crap only...
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 06:05:47 pm by Iwanushka »
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Offline Edison

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Speed - induction, gas - the fastest almost identical
                - halogen - between induction and glass ceramics
                - ceramic hob - rapid onset / longer stop
                - Electric plate - slow start / stop very long

Utensils - Induction - Required special dishes (material with specific magnetic saturation, iron not suitable - device overloaded)
For magnetic non-conducting vessels (stainless steel, glass), induction mats can be purchased.
Important - Take care to install the induction plate - Have enough air access for cooling, the distance of metal objects (drawer with metal cutlery, metal utensils etc  :)
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Offline Yellofriend

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Speed - induction, gas - the fastest almost identical

My induction is faster that than the gas I have. Induction goes pretty much 100% were is should go, gas heat also heats the room.

Utensils - Induction - Required special dishes (material with specific magnetic saturation, iron not suitable - device overloaded)

I have an iron steak pan that I use with induction. That gets hot, really hot, about 4-500°C. I use a layer of glass fabric under it as thermal insulator so the back heat doesn't damage the hob. Have one pan though where the base bulges down when hot, so the pan spins on the hob. No problem on gas though.

For all my other puts and pans, there was one pot that didn't work because of pure stainless steel base. All others work.

When I pot/pan shop I bring a magnet.

Radiation concerns? None whatsoever. It's closed magnetic circuit. And you you worry about stray magnetism, any house is full of that anyway.
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Offline CJay

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Dump the induction hob and buy a gas one, take it from someone who cooks every day and enjoys it.
Having cooked on various conventional electric stoves, gas, and induction: between gas and induction, what mattters more is the quality and power, not whether it’s gas or induction (with one caveat I’ll get to later). I’d rather a good induction stove over an anemic gas one. For a typical home stove, induction heats even faster than gas, turns off equally fast, and is easier to clean.

Absolutely agree, I'd rather have a good induction than a poor gas hob and no, the energy source does not matter at all, it's the delivery and granularity of the control that's most important.

Hitting something with a great whack of heat isn't always the best thing (unless it's a steak) so speed is not that big an issue.

Cleaning, I have a dishwasher for the burners and grills if I make a complete mess of the hob (rare) otherwise a wipe down with a damp cloth is all that's usually required.

What can I say, it's personal preference and I can buy whatever cookware suits my tastes/needs (I like heavy duty restaurant kitchen grade cookware) instead of having to check if it's induction compatible (mine aren't).

YMMV, I fully accept some people have different tastes.
 

Offline Edison

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A typical feature of using unsuitable dishes for induction,
the burned coil of the measuring coil, under the dielectric layer (on which the white maps show the change of structure by excessive warming) is the working coil which is in ......... :(
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 07:05:44 pm by Edison »
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