Author Topic: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?  (Read 7278 times)

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Offline sainbablo

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Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« on: January 13, 2019, 05:17:20 pm »
What is it that you cant get on planet Earth but will get on Mars?
Is it for  sake of Science  or just  a  costly example of  basic human restlessness ?
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2019, 06:00:05 pm »
How about for 'locational diversity'.  It only takes one big rock hitting the earth to wipe out all of mankind.  If we are to survive, we need locational diversity.  In other words, don't be here when it happens.  Or at least have multiple locations.

The dinosaurs were around for about 185 million years and were well adapted for their environment - right up until a big rock came through the atmosphere.

Inevitably, a similar event will happen to the human race.
 

Offline CM800

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2019, 06:05:04 pm »
economic - not much, however Asteroid mining could benefit from having a good 'pitstop' as mars is a significant bit closer to the main asteroid belt.
aspirational - humanity has a drive to explore and expand
survival - a hypothetical planetary scale disaster wouldn't extinguish humankind if we were dispersed among planets
romantic - "a new frontier"

Another point is that it drives innovation of new technology that trickles down into other products, for example many products benefit from innovations made during the space race / cold war.

I'd like to see America and China competing to set up colonies on Mars. It might be expensive for now, however as technology progresses, there are many technologies & methods that, given funding, could dramatically reduce cost of space exploration & transportation.


A major problem we will face trying to set up an 'Earth 2.0' colony will be bringing all the skills and equipment over. This would foster significant innovations... how do we efficiently condense a million different commercial fabrication machines (semiconductor fab equipment, mills, lathes, laser cutters, CNC plasma cutters, fabric processing equipment, injection moulding machine... etc. etc.) into fewer, more robust machines. This kind of development could prove a huge boon to the local economy.

Space innovation stands to benefit humanity hugely. Semiconductor fabrication machines can be built better in zero-g environment, the vacuum in orbit is cleaner then any vacuum chamber we can create on earth. Numerous materials and crystals form differently in zero-G with better qualities that cannot be replicated when grown on the planet. ZBLANS are a great example of that.



« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 06:33:18 pm by CM800 »
 

Online Gyro

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2019, 06:29:29 pm »
It would be something of a novelty for the human race to actually create a new habitable environment rather than destroying one.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 06:31:06 pm by Gyro »
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Offline james_s

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2019, 06:40:00 pm »
If they do pull it off I'm sure we will get some technological development out of it, although I doubt it will be as revolutionary as what came out of the Apollo program. In the end though I suspect it will be a spectacular failure. I'm sure we will succeed in getting people there, but I would be shocked if they're not all dead within a couple of years. The most habitable places on mars are far less conducive to life than the least habitable places on earth. We could more easily colonize the bottom of the ocean or the harshest most isolated desert.

There have been several experiments with people living inside an isolated biodome and all have failed. Put even a carefully selected group of people into a small sealed bubble and they'll be at each others throats in no time as tribal instincts form cliques. It's pretty much the standard reality TV recipe except with no way to get out.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2019, 06:45:52 pm »
Nothing will happen by 2030. I repeat: nothing will happen by 2030. Inhabitating Mars is not the same as going to cottage on the weekend.
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Offline james_s

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2019, 06:50:16 pm »
You're probably right. I have little doubt we could send people to Mars by then if sufficiently motivated, it's an incremental step beyond sending people to the moon which we've already done, but I don't see there being sufficient motivation unless we have another cold war with another superpower.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2019, 07:06:39 pm »
Is it for  sake of Science  or just  a  costly example of  basic human restlessness ?
its for Science... just to prove who we are in this big universe. they do the work we enjoy the benefit, no need to complaint :popcorn:

How about for 'locational diversity'.  It only takes one big rock hitting the earth to wipe out all of mankind.  If we are to survive, we need locational diversity.  In other words, don't be here when it happens.  Or at least have multiple locations.
i'm pretty sure that wont happen (its been written). if it even is to, everything will be wiped out including Mars before we can go anything further out of the safe zone (exploding sun for example)... the decision maybe not in the right direction but i dont say its wrong, as i mentioned, human want to seek for the truth. there are much more important and financially easier to do, such as promoting safe and no war world based on indisputable text (oh yes they can do research and the hard psychological, social and economical thinking), feed and home the poor, better low and higher level thinking education etc. but its been proved for so long to be a moot attempt, maybe psychologically and socially going to Mars is much easier.

btw, if by chance they find abundant amount of plutonium (or even anti matter) there, we (they) will have more resources to go further (or maybe to kill who are not in line :P)
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 
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Online Simon

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2019, 08:18:26 pm »
Moved to general chat, why on earth was it started in "beginners" ? :palm:
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Offline daqq

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2019, 08:57:47 pm »
Quote
What is it that you cant get on planet Earth but will get on Mars?
Backup.
Quote
Is it for  sake of Science  or just  a  costly example of  basic human restlessness ?
You make it sound as though either of those things is a bad thing and that they are mutually exclusive.

If nothing else, there's a big ball of potential use, might as well try to make use of it. If, in the process awesome new discoveries are made and wonderful new technologies enabled (as was in all of the space exploration so far), so much the better.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 08:59:53 pm by daqq »
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Offline Domagoj T

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2019, 09:30:19 pm »
i'm pretty sure that wont happen (its been written).
What are you talking about?
Asteroid impacts are regular occurrence in Solar system. They have happened before, and there is no reason to believe they won't happen again.

if it even is to, everything will be wiped out including Mars before we can go anything further out of the safe zone (exploding sun for example)...
It would take much more than an asteroid hitting Earth to destroy Mars as well.
Natural evolution of the Sun will take on the order of billion years to get to the point where life on Earth will no longer be viable.

no war world based on indisputable text
What kind of text?

btw, if by chance they find abundant amount of plutonium (or even anti matter) there, we (they) will have more resources to go further (or maybe to kill who are not in line :P)
With the short halflife of plutonioum, here is no reason to think that there are any significant natural sources of it anywhere.
As for antimatter, there is none on Mars.

All that being said, Mars is a very difficult place to set up a colony. There is nothing on it that Moon doesn't provide just as well, except somewhat higher surface gravity, which helps with health, but is a major nuisance for a location that would depend on space travel for survival.
Atmosphere is just horrible. It's way to thin to provide any protection - you still need spacesuit. For space travel, it makes aerocapture difficult - you need heavy heat shield, but get little help from it
It is also just thick enough to kick up dust that gets into everything and acts like abrasive destroying mechanical devices.
There is no water except at the polar regions - a location which sucks for space travel.
It's far from Earth.
Moon is a better location for colony in every category. Well, day/night cycle sucks a bit.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2019, 09:55:25 pm »
Mars gravity is likely too low to support a breathable atmosphere even if oxygen, nitrogen could be magically created in sufficient quantity there.

Also, Mars would remain far too cold. Venus is too hot. Space probes that have been sent there have only lasted a very short time in its extremely inhospitable environment.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2019, 10:11:51 pm »
How about for 'locational diversity'.  It only takes one big rock hitting the earth to wipe out all of mankind.  If we are to survive, we need locational diversity.  In other words, don't be here when it happens.  Or at least have multiple locations.

And getting truly autonomous like this will take 500-1000 years minimum.
If you think setting up a colony on Mars can be truly self sufficient and sustaining long term if the Earth blew up in the shorter term then you need to think  about the logistics of it a lot harder.
 

Offline apis

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2019, 10:16:11 pm »
If it's for 'locational diversity' then building a moon base or a large space station would probably be both cheaper and easier.
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2019, 10:27:28 pm »
If it's for 'locational diversity' then building a moon base or a large space station would probably be both cheaper and easier.

But if the Earth were destroyed, what would happen to the Moon.  Losing Earth's gravity, it would be free to go somewhere else - perhaps the Sun?

Ideally, we would relocate outside our own solar system.
 

Offline Domagoj T

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2019, 10:44:05 pm »
Destruction of Earth in this conversation implies an asteroid impact or other event that would make it uninhabitable, not nonexistent. An asteroid that is capable of destroying life on Earth is not going to pulverize the planet, nor significantly change its mass. There could be debris hitting Moon, but for that to happen, it would need to be a very big asteroid.

If the Earth just blinked out of existence, Moon would keep on going around the Sun. Its orbit would be somewhat similar to the current orbit of Earth, depending on the moment during the lunar month when it disappeared.

Relocating to somewhere outside of the Solar system is so far beyond our tech, I don't think we can even have a reasonable discussion about it. Even the technologically simplest way to do it, using what is called generation ship, is beyond our means.
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2019, 11:28:32 pm »
The earth will eventually be destroyed one way or another, but I would be willing to bet that humans will destroy themselves long before that happens. At some point non-renewable resources will diminish to the point that wars escalate over what remains, consuming much of that in the process. We can't even seem to manage to manage to exist in harmony here, what makes anyone think setting up camp on another planet is going to fix that? Humans are a destructive species, we behave much like parasites on the planet, slowly consuming our host.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2019, 12:44:19 am »
Colonizing another planet would give them the opportunity to have a place which allows the nicer place (Earth) to be the "choice" the wealthy people get to make if they can afford to.

The less hospitable real estate can become the place, as its been often in the past,  where people have to go when they don't have enough money to work off their debts or perish trying. Read some history!

The system must be preserved even if many people must perish. Otherwise we would have anarchy, socialized health care, and so on.

As somebody here pointed out there are no promises in this world. Just as millions of native Californians whose incomes haven't kept up are being pushed out of California the same may happen to Americans and Europeans and Asians and Africans who cant afford the high prices of living in the style to which they were accustomed to with air and liquid water.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 12:49:32 am by cdev »
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Offline tpowell1830

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2019, 01:42:16 am »
How about for 'locational diversity'.  It only takes one big rock hitting the earth to wipe out all of mankind.  If we are to survive, we need locational diversity.  In other words, don't be here when it happens.  Or at least have multiple locations.

The dinosaurs were around for about 185 million years and were well adapted for their environment - right up until a big rock came through the atmosphere.

Inevitably, a similar event will happen to the human race.

Unless the zombie apocalypse happens first...

There are way more things that can wipe out life than a rock hitting earth. Our atmosphere could be stripped away by solar winds, the earth's magnetic field changing polarity, a biological event that causes man to do something stupid with chemicals, nuclear war, etc.

If we started making a concerted effort now, today, to invest into a strategy to colonize another planet or our moon, it would take hundreds of years to develop a sustaining habitat that could survive through the long period of revival of the planet (if it still existed) in the aftermath of a major extinction event.

I am much more afraid of man destroying life on earth than much of anything else in my lifetime (which is getting shorter and shorter at 65 years old). There are no easy answers to this, either. The questions are even more difficult.

 :rant:
But, in answer to the OPs question, we don't know what we will find that might help with life on earth, or the technology that is developed that will lead to more discoveries. We just don't know what we don't know, so that is why we, as humans, are always pushing the boundaries and exploring. We are naturally curious and will continue to push to other worlds because it is our nature. The many thousands of new materials and technology that came from the space program and the push to go to the moon has touched our lives in so many ways that we will never realize (some do). We may find a material (unobtanium?) that is not abundant on earth that could help us to develop devices that we never thought possible. I for one would be a proponent of further space exploration to Mars, to asteroids and beyond as long as we have developed a relatively safe approach to doing this. To me, the approach taken in the sixties involved men deciding to take these risks despite the fact that no one knew what would happen and whether the technology was safe enough, but we did it anyways. As I have said in past posts, there are plenty of people who would gladly take the risk (my poll showed at least 38% would do it). Whether we do this now or in the future (if we are still around), we will push out to other planets, moons, asteroids and beyond as long as there are people to dream of this and want this and the will and fortitude to do it. I don't think we will do this to expand our habitat, but mostly for curiosity, adventure and discovery.

Just my 2 cents...
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Online xrunner

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2019, 01:53:28 am »
Is it for  sake of Science  or just  a  costly example of  basic human restlessness ?

It's the cool factor!  8)
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Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2019, 02:33:21 am »
Quote
What is it that you cant get on planet Earth but will get on Mars?

You would get a distant view of Earth, and probably a longing to be back on it.   :(
 

Offline Tomorokoshi

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2019, 04:25:30 am »
Hey, who wouldn't want to be this guy?

 

Offline sainbablo

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2019, 02:59:52 pm »
How about for 'locational diversity'.  It only takes one big rock hitting the earth to wipe out all of mankind.  If we are to survive, we need locational diversity.  In other words, don't be here when it happens.  Or at least have multiple locations.

The dinosaurs were around for about 185 million years and were well adapted for their environment - right up until a big rock came through the atmosphere.

Inevitably, a similar event will happen to the human race.



Amoeba the unicellular organism has lived for 185M, longevity period of dinosaurs+ the period till date.So have the

rest of multicellular species belonging to various biological divisions of zoology  and botany.

We  can employ another set of arguments that is -Since rest of the creation with stood and survived  that adverse period, humans
being can survive an identical  repeat catastrphe.


Why can we not?
 

Online vtwin@cox.net

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2019, 03:12:36 pm »
The dinosaurs were around for about 185 million years and were well adapted for their environment - right up until a big rock came through the atmosphere.

Inevitably, a similar event will happen to the human race.

I believe humanity would survive a "big rock". Perhaps not in a significantly large number, but there would likely be pockets of humanity which would survive, because humans are an intelligent, adaptable species. Dinosaurs were not

Sounds like an excellent premise for a new post-apocalyptic book series... "Surviving the Rock"  (starring Dwayne Johnson)
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Offline sainbablo

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Re: Inhabitating Mars by 2030? What for?
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2019, 03:14:06 pm »


There are way more things that can wipe out life than a rock hitting earth. Our atmosphere could be stripped away by solar winds, the earth's magnetic field changing polarity, a biological event that causes man to do something stupid with chemicals, nuclear war, etc.

If we started making a concerted effort now, today, to invest into a strategy to colonize another planet or our moon, it would take hundreds of years to develop a sustaining habitat that could survive through the long period of revival of the planet (if it still existed) in the aftermath of a major extinction event.

I am much more afraid of man destroying life on earth than much of anything else in my lifetime (which is getting shorter and shorter at 65 years old). There are no easy answers to this, either. The questions are even more difficult.

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Intractable issues exist on  Planet Earth which we see through different lenses and interpret the way that suits us.

Can we arrive at common concensus?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 03:24:16 pm by sainbablo »
 
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