Author Topic: instantaneous death by (exploding) electronic cigarette  (Read 3464 times)

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Offline Zero999

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Re: instantaneous death by (exploding) electronic cigarette
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2018, 09:28:16 pm »
makes me wonder if my big 8000 lumen flashlight by Fenix can kill me like a pipe bomb with its red bull can sized battery and probobly shitty electronics  :palm:
Any time you have lots of energy in a container you either have a gun or a bomb. The only question is how easy it is to release the energy in a short amount of time.
The last statement about how quickly the energy can be released is the most important factor. A 100g wax candle contains about 4.2MJ of energy, much more than any battery of a similar size, yet it isn't explosive, under standard conditions, because the energy can't be released very quikcly.
 

Online Rerouter

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Re: instantaneous death by (exploding) electronic cigarette
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2018, 10:14:48 pm »
My worry then would be liquid getting in the hole and shorting out the battery. So I still have to think about it.

Use an adhesive sticker as a burst plate, one of the waxy circle ones sold at office works. It will keep the water out. And should come off when you blow hard through the hole, giving the pressure somewhere to go rather than the alternative.
 

Offline CopperCone

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Re: instantaneous death by (exploding) electronic cigarette
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2018, 04:17:17 pm »
I know the battery has alot of energy but I am specificially inquiring about the failure mode. I wonder if I should weaken it with a hacksaw or something. Like cut most of the back out so it opens like a soda tab (just use a bead of water proof glue around the cut) but this all depends on the velocity of delagration that occurs in the battery if its high enough then it wont really matter too much as peak pressure will be reached before the shock front reaches the deformation but I don't think this is the case for lithium?
 

Offline amyk

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Re: instantaneous death by (exploding) electronic cigarette
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2018, 05:05:50 pm »
makes me wonder if my big 8000 lumen flashlight by Fenix can kill me like a pipe bomb with its red bull can sized battery and probobly shitty electronics  :palm:
Any time you have lots of energy in a container you either have a gun or a bomb. The only question is how easy it is to release the energy in a short amount of time.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?262234-TK-Monster-Explosion
 

Offline glarsson

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Re: instantaneous death by (exploding) electronic cigarette
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2018, 05:12:58 pm »
makes me wonder if my big 8000 lumen flashlight by Fenix can kill me like a pipe bomb with its red bull can sized battery and probobly shitty electronics  :palm:
Any time you have lots of energy in a container you either have a gun or a bomb. The only question is how easy it is to release the energy in a short amount of time.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?262234-TK-Monster-Explosion
This time it was easy. Just push a button a couple of times.
 

Offline raptor1956

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Re: instantaneous death by (exploding) electronic cigarette
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2018, 06:34:30 pm »
Back in 2014 I went to the Indy 500 along with other family.  We had an RV parked in the American Legion RV park right across from the track and our spot was right by the road.  All along the road were vendors selling food and other things and the vendor closest to us was selling e-cigarettes and the stuff that goes with it.  I found it interesting that during there break the clerks for the e-cigarette booth would go behind the booth and ... smoke cigarettes.


E-cigarettes were a genius stroke from the major cigarette makers as a way to get new (young) addicts -- and its working.

One of the major draws for e-cigarettes is the huge cloud of smoke/steam they can generate and it plays off some of the same thing as cigars -- to proclaim to all around that you are not concerned in the least about your impact on others.  Back when smoking cigarettes was legal in restaurants etc it was not uncommon for a smoker to not care if there smoke disturbed others -- hey its my right so get used to it. 


Brian
 

Offline Rick Law

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Re: instantaneous death by (exploding) electronic cigarette
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2018, 06:49:56 pm »
It had swollen enough to require pliers to remove it.

Maybe this was what happened, the mod vents on the bottom while the battery if installed in the proscribed manner vents on top. So if the battery swells and closes the gas path to the bottom it can build enough pressure to blow through the insulator on top, through the atomizer and launch the mouthpiece, which isn't threaded on.

From the e-cig devices I've seen (not too many), it is the format of the device that is deadly.

The size of a cigarette pack, with one, two, or three 18650's in it and a right angle tube a cm (each side of the right angle) or so long for sucking the vapor.  So, one has to get the batteries as close to the face as a cell phone to take a puff.

There are many ways to ensure batteries doesn't blow towards the smoker who is merely cm's away from the cells.  For example, separate compartment for the 18650 cells connected via a few tens of cm's of 10 or 12 gauge wire to the vaporizing compartment.  Another way would be to enclose the device 5 sides leaving the side facing away as vent.  Ways to make it safer is endless - just no one has done it.
 

Offline doobedoobedo

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Re: instantaneous death by (exploding) electronic cigarette
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2018, 09:39:36 pm »
Back in 2014 I went to the Indy 500 along with other family.  We had an RV parked in the American Legion RV park right across from the track and our spot was right by the road.  All along the road were vendors selling food and other things and the vendor closest to us was selling e-cigarettes and the stuff that goes with it.  I found it interesting that during there break the clerks for the e-cigarette booth would go behind the booth and ... smoke cigarettes.
There's a vape shop I walk past where the owner is always out side the front door smoking. A clear signal that he's only in it for profit.

E-cigarettes were a genius stroke from the major cigarette makers as a way to get new (young) addicts -- and its working.

I'm afraid this is all BS. The major cigarette companies are the smallest part of the market, they have been buying market share though.

Depends on your viewpoint. In England the smoking rate was fairly flat at 20% for years until 2011 when electronic devices started to take off and had dropped to 15% by 2016 as this graph from Public Health England (based on data from the Office of National Statistics) shows.



One of the major draws for e-cigarettes is the huge cloud of smoke/steam they can generate and it plays off some of the same thing as cigars -- to proclaim to all around that you are not concerned in the least about your impact on others.  Back when smoking cigarettes was legal in restaurants etc it was not uncommon for a smoker to not care if there smoke disturbed others -- hey its my right so get used to it. 

Brian
What impact does it have on you, especially if it's outside?

It had swollen enough to require pliers to remove it.

Maybe this was what happened, the mod vents on the bottom while the battery if installed in the proscribed manner vents on top. So if the battery swells and closes the gas path to the bottom it can build enough pressure to blow through the insulator on top, through the atomizer and launch the mouthpiece, which isn't threaded on.

From the e-cig devices I've seen (not too many), it is the format of the device that is deadly.

The size of a cigarette pack, with one, two, or three 18650's in it and a right angle tube a cm (each side of the right angle) or so long for sucking the vapor.  So, one has to get the batteries as close to the face as a cell phone to take a puff.

There are many ways to ensure batteries doesn't blow towards the smoker who is merely cm's away from the cells.  For example, separate compartment for the 18650 cells connected via a few tens of cm's of 10 or 12 gauge wire to the vaporizing compartment.  Another way would be to enclose the device 5 sides leaving the side facing away as vent.  Ways to make it safer is endless - just no one has done it.

The ones that are rectangular won't explode like this, the batteries are loaded from the side and they are not completely sealed, the door for the battery compartment is usually held in place by small magnets. They are also usually regulated so the voltage drop from using unsuitable cells will cause them to shut off the power before anything goes horribly wrong. The problem is the tubes that take a single cell with a button at the bottom which acts as a switch.  Any venting is usually done through the switch and there is no protection at all.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 11:56:10 pm by doobedoobedo »
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: instantaneous death by (exploding) electronic cigarette
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2018, 10:10:24 pm »
I don't understand the anti-ecig movement. I think it's mostly down to propaganda pushed by the tobacco companies.

Fair enough, ecig vapour might be annoying to some, perhaps even more so than cigarette smoke for the tiny minority, but the reality is, it's much less harmful than the tar filled, carcinogenic muck pumped out by real cigarettes. Nicotine itself, in the dosage delivered by a typical cigarette, whether real or electronic, is no more harmful than coffee. It's the other shit produced when organic matter burns which causes the damage. One could roll up dried salad leaves, burn them and still receive a similar dosage of carcinogens as they would in cigarette smoke. Now it's true that the aerosol produced by ecigs isn't completely harmless: it does cause some respiratory irritation, but it's several orders of magnitude less harmful than smoke.

By the way, there's also some evidence to support that ecigs are less addictive, than real cigarettes but it's not know whether it's because the nicotine isn't with the other toxic chemicals found in cigarette smoke or something else.
http://news.psu.edu/story/471014/2017/06/12/research/e-cigarettes-less-addictive-cigarettes-path-study-shows

I can see the need for regulations for ecigs but no more than those governing food and battery operated devices.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 03:17:58 pm by Hero999 »
 
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Offline doobedoobedo

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Re: instantaneous death by (exploding) electronic cigarette
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2018, 12:09:04 am »
The anti-ecig movement surprisingly isn't tobacco companies. It's those with an even more vested interest - Anti-tobacco campaigners plus NRT suppliers. The WHO is also massively anti-ecig.

Dick Puddlecote https://dickpuddlecote.blogspot.co.uk/ is always in interesting read. ;)
 

Offline apis

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Re: instantaneous death by (exploding) electronic cigarette
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2018, 02:50:05 pm »
My worry then would be liquid getting in the hole and shorting out the battery. So I still have to think about it.

Use an adhesive sticker as a burst plate, one of the waxy circle ones sold at office works. It will keep the water out. And should come off when you blow hard through the hole, giving the pressure somewhere to go rather than the alternative.
:-+
Do test by blowing as suggested though. You might need a surprising amount of pressure to blow out a plug if the hole is too small (since the force on the plug is proportional to the surface area (grows with r2), whereas the friction forces that holds it in place is proportional to the circumference (grows with r), i.e.: you might need significantly more pressure to blow out a small plug than a big). But intuitively a small sticker sounds like it would be perfect in this case.

Fair enough, ecig vapour might be annoying to some, perhaps even more so than cigarette smoke for the tiny minority, but the reality is, it's much less harmful than the tar filled, carcinogenic muck pumped out by real cigarettes.
It is pretty annoying to have e-smoke blown in your face as well, especially when flavoured with some horrible synthetic fruit flavour. :rant:

But yeah, haven't seen any real data but would be very surprised if ecigs are anywhere near as bad as normal cigs. If cigs can get replaced (even if only partially) by ecigs I'm all for it.
 

Offline Seph.b

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Re: instantaneous death by (exploding) electronic cigarette
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2018, 05:28:33 pm »
My worry then would be liquid getting in the hole and shorting out the battery. So I still have to think about it.

Use an adhesive sticker as a burst plate, one of the waxy circle ones sold at office works. It will keep the water out. And should come off when you blow hard through the hole, giving the pressure somewhere to go rather than the alternative.

Good idea, I will do that.
 

Offline amyk

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Re: instantaneous death by (exploding) electronic cigarette
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2018, 08:07:12 pm »
Do test by blowing as suggested though. You might need a surprising amount of pressure to blow out a plug if the hole is too small (since the force on the plug is proportional to the surface area (grows with r2), whereas the friction forces that holds it in place is proportional to the circumference (grows with r), i.e.: you might need significantly more pressure to blow out a small plug than a big). But intuitively a small sticker sounds like it would be perfect in this case.
As long as the "burst disk" ruptures at a pressure lower than that required to make the unit explode --- and vents sufficiently quickly to prevent the pressure going higher --- it would be OK. There might be a bit of a rocket effect, however...
 


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