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Mr.B:

--- Quote from: tom66 on December 14, 2022, 09:21:51 am ---Many of these WiFi smart apps are provided by Tuya, a Chinese smart device company that has a frickin' weird business model that seems completely unsustainable...

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When I want to introduce more elements of home automation I specifically seek out devices using Tuya.
Why?
Because they are so easily converted to NOT be cloud and only talk directly to my Raspberry Pi running Home Assistant.
Google: Tuya Convert
rstofer:
If I paid any attention to the presumed failures above, I would give up on my Chevy Bolt because not only is it ALL electric, it is also networked to GM's OnStar system whether I subscribe or not.  They know all about how hard I stomp on the loud pedal.  And they warn me about tire pressure...
woody:

--- Quote from: rstofer on December 15, 2022, 02:15:14 am ---If I paid any attention to the presumed failures above, I would give up on my Chevy Bolt because not only is it ALL electric, it is also networked to GM's OnStar system whether I subscribe or not.  They know all about how hard I stomp on the loud pedal.  And they warn me about tire pressure...

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`
And not only that. Nothing holds the M3 standing in our driveway from receiving a command over the air, waking up and driving off. No plug I can pull to prevent it. Maybe an old-fashioned chain to the tow-hook  ;D
tooki:

--- Quote from: eti on December 15, 2022, 12:33:42 am ---Machines go wrong.

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Yeah, sometimes.


--- Quote from: eti on December 15, 2022, 12:33:42 am ---Thermal cutouts DO fail, but sense and instinct rarely lets us down

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That is laughably incorrect. Common sense and instinct are very, very frequently VERY wrong, and risk assessment is precisely an area where they let us down in grand style.


--- Quote from: eti on December 15, 2022, 12:33:42 am ---you’re “trusting” machines that involve heating elements being left unattended? You’re LITERALLY inviting trouble, risk and danger into your home.

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Just like millions of people around the world. If ovens burning down houses were a significant problem, we’d know about it.


--- Quote from: eti on December 15, 2022, 12:33:42 am ---The entire planet never needed a remote cooker before now; why suddenly are people SO short-sighted and complacent? It’s a sci-fi daydream is why.

Wake up. This is SO, SO foolish.

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”Suddenly”? Aka the “appeal to tradition” logical fallacy.

Don’t get me wrong; I don’t see any reason why I’d want a Wi-Fi enabled oven. (Unlike the washer and dryer.) But if my landlord were to install an oven with Wi-Fi, I wouldn’t lose one second’s sleep worrying that it was going to cause a fire.


--- Quote from: eti on December 15, 2022, 12:39:40 am ---When we were children and went on holiday, my Father would walk around the house unplugging EVERY SINGLE mains plug. Now that is UNcommon sense these days, but I still  switch off the oven AT THE MAINS SWITCH after using it, and do the same for the toaster and kettle before I sleep - because I was given sense and a brain for a reason - machines DO FAIL.

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The preference you arrogantly refer to as “common sense” is just that: a preference. Some would say it goes as far as paranoia. Most people, myself included, don’t give it a second’s thought because a century of electrical appliances in widespread use has led to the fundamental bugs being worked out decades ago, and there simply isn’t any evidence of widespread failures.

To reiterate: I’m not stating that it’s categorically impossible, just that it’s so unlikely as to not warrant any worry.


--- Quote from: eti on December 15, 2022, 12:39:40 am ---Read: https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/14/20802774/june-smart-oven-remote-preheat-update-user-error

And there’ll be more accounts like this I’m sure.

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I’m not surprised that that’s with a device from a startup. The established manufacturers have far more experience designing things.

What would be far more interesting/instructive IMHO is whether there are cases of full size ovens (as opposed to a $1400 glorified toaster oven) having similar malfunctions.
tom66:

--- Quote from: eti on December 15, 2022, 12:33:42 am ---Machines go wrong. Thermal cutouts DO fail, but sense and instinct rarely lets us down - you’re “trusting” machines that involve heating elements being left unattended? You’re LITERALLY inviting trouble, risk and danger into your home. The entire planet never needed a remote cooker before now; why suddenly are people SO short-sighted and complacent? It’s a sci-fi daydream is why.

Wake up. This is SO, SO foolish.

--- End quote ---

Don't look at your window.  You might realise we let people pilot two-tonne metal boxes after doing a 45 minute exam.

I don't see why anything tooki said is wrong.  You know what else fails?  Normal thermal switches used on regular ovens.  In fact my mothers' oven failed in such a way that it left the gas supply on, so we had to isolate the whole house... eek.
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