EEVblog Electronics Community Forum

General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: radhika on September 10, 2018, 10:38:20 am

Title: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: radhika on September 10, 2018, 10:38:20 am
Hello,
I am building a boost circuit and I am using IRFZ44N MOSFET. But, as I am using Arduino, so I just have 3.3V or 5V as VGS. But according to the link http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irfz44n.pdf. (http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irfz44n.pdf.) we need VGS = 10V to switch on the mosfet.
Can anybody explain me how do I do this?
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: rajivdeo on September 10, 2018, 11:47:38 am
Hi

For use with Arduino please use IRLZ44N instead of IRFZ44N.
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: wraper on September 10, 2018, 11:57:21 am
Yes, use logic level MOSFET if don't want to use gate drive circuit with additional power rail with higher voltage.
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: radhika on September 10, 2018, 01:23:06 pm
Hello,
I only have IRFZ44N but not IRL
What to do now?
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: radhika on September 10, 2018, 01:25:02 pm
Hello,
IRFZ44N is not a logic level circuit.
Can things be done by using driver circuit? If yes, then which driver IC i will use?
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: Zucca on September 10, 2018, 01:40:04 pm
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=irfz44n+arduino (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=irfz44n+arduino)

it should be easy
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: wraper on September 10, 2018, 02:05:03 pm
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=irfz44n+arduino (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=irfz44n+arduino)

it should be easy
And 99% of suggestions are incorrect,  showing to directly connect the gate  :palm:.
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: Zucca on September 10, 2018, 02:11:28 pm
Probably... because all the arduino users do not know EE and post the circuit which does not work....

Anyway this should point to the solution:

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/234403/how-to-drive-power-mosfet-by-logic-level-signal-without-inverting-phase (https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/234403/how-to-drive-power-mosfet-by-logic-level-signal-without-inverting-phase)

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/234188/power-mosfet-gets-hot-while-driving-peltier-by-step-down-buck-voltage-converter (https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/234188/power-mosfet-gets-hot-while-driving-peltier-by-step-down-buck-voltage-converter)
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: JS on September 10, 2018, 02:17:46 pm
Charge pump with one uC pin and then a transistor switching the gate using that new voltage

JS

Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: wraper on September 10, 2018, 02:20:22 pm
Correct answer how to drive the gate depends on what voltages do you have in your circuit and how fast switching needs to be.
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: JPortici on September 10, 2018, 02:21:06 pm
are we looking at the same datasheet?
Altough the rated RDSon is for VGS = 10V, Gate threshold is listed at 4V max and Figure 1 suggests that at 5V it could be turned on enough for your needs.
Granted, i wouldn't like to work so close to the limit, but since it's all through hole parts you can put together a test circuit on a breaboard or perfboard see if it's acceptable. it could work
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: wraper on September 10, 2018, 03:51:33 pm
are we looking at the same datasheet?
Altough the rated RDSon is for VGS = 10V, Gate threshold is listed at 4V max and Figure 1 suggests that at 5V it could be turned on enough for your needs.
Gate threshold voltage is when MOSFET only starts barely conducting. If you get one with 4V Vgs, hell it won't work well from 5V
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: langwadt on September 10, 2018, 03:55:57 pm
are we looking at the same datasheet?
Altough the rated RDSon is for VGS = 10V, Gate threshold is listed at 4V max and Figure 1 suggests that at 5V it could be turned on enough for your needs.
Gate threshold voltage is when MOSFET only starts barely conducting. If you get one with 4V Vgs, hell it won't work well from 5V

depends on what you need, look at the graph for typical output characteristics, it's ~6A at 4.5V Vds
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: wraper on September 10, 2018, 03:59:37 pm
are we looking at the same datasheet?
Altough the rated RDSon is for VGS = 10V, Gate threshold is listed at 4V max and Figure 1 suggests that at 5V it could be turned on enough for your needs.
Gate threshold voltage is when MOSFET only starts barely conducting. If you get one with 4V Vgs, hell it won't work well from 5V

depends on what you need, look at the graph for typical output characteristics, it's ~6A at 4.5V Vds

It's "typical" = silicon die lottery. And it will get worse at low temperatures.
BTW this is barely usable even with typical figure due to high losses.
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: Zero999 on September 10, 2018, 07:16:19 pm
Hello,
I am building a boost circuit and I am using IRFZ44N MOSFET. But, as I am using Arduino, so I just have 3.3V or 5V as VGS. But according to the link http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irfz44n.pdf. (http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irfz44n.pdf.) we need VGS = 10V to switch on the mosfet.
Can anybody explain me how do I do this?
What voltage and current load is the MOSFET switching and at what frequency?

If the current is not much more than 1A and voltage above 12V or so and it only needs to be switched a a few hundred Hz or less, you'll probably get away with driving the IRFZ44N from 5V.

Failing that, you need to use a higher voltage gate drive circuit. If you can't get the IRLZ44N, then I presume specialist MOSFET driver ICs are also out of the question? If so a MOSFET driver can be built from ordinary BJTs. It depends on the requirements. Answer my previous questions and I might be able to suggest something.
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: JPortici on September 10, 2018, 10:12:39 pm
If the current is not much more than 1A and voltage above 12V or so and it only needs to be switched a a few hundred Hz or less, you'll probably get away with driving the IRFZ44N from 5V.

Thank you, that was what i meant. I don't think one can expect something more from an "arduino based" boost converter
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: radhika on September 11, 2018, 04:59:33 pm
The Voltage is 5V as a inpput from the Arduino. And I used it in Boost circuit so, I want to get 19.5V. Also, current is 2.5A and frequency is 8.5kHz.

I want to know that what driver IC should I use for it, as IRFZ44N is not a logic level Mosfet. So, can you suggest me a driver with a circuit which drive MOSFET for PWM?
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: Zero999 on September 11, 2018, 07:16:12 pm
Wow 8.5kHz is quite a low frequency for a switched mode power supply. It will need a very large inductor.

JS has already hinted on the answer: use another pin to drive a charge pump to boost the 5V up to 10V - a couple of diode drops and power the MOSFET driver from that. Sequencing will be important. The charge pump must be run for long enough to bring the MOSFET driver up to a suitable voltage, before the MOSFET is turned on.

Here's an example of a voltage doubler using a 555 timer. Of course the 555 can be swapped with a squarewave output from your MCU. The diodes can be swapped with Shotkky units for a lower voltage drop.
(http://www.555-timer-circuits.com/images/VoltageDoubler.gif)
http://www.555-timer-circuits.com/voltage-doubler.html (http://www.555-timer-circuits.com/voltage-doubler.html)

Another possibility is to power the MOSFET driver from the output of the boost converter. The main downside with that option is the MOSFET will be running hot, with high conduction losses, up until the secondary voltage is high enough to drive the MOSFET properly. There's a risk it might not be able to start on a full load.

Here are a couple of links to some MOSFET driver ICs. If you can't get hold of either of them, I'll suggest a discrete circuit with BJTs, if someone doesn't beat me to it.
https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MC34152-D.PDF (https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MC34152-D.PDF)
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/22022b.pdf (http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/22022b.pdf)
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: malagas_on_fire on September 11, 2018, 09:15:06 pm
Hi

Can we also use a IRF540 to connect a arduino using a auxiliary BJT  + resistor dividor to toggle it? The dataheet from vishay says that the Vgs threshold is minimal 2V and maximum 4V so 3V in Gate would be save? Or this means the threshold towards the voltage on Drain?

(Edit)

Link to the datasheet:

https://www.vishay.com/docs/91021/91021.pdf (https://www.vishay.com/docs/91021/91021.pdf)
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: oPossum on September 11, 2018, 09:22:47 pm
Vgsth is when the MOSFET just begins to turn on. Look at the Vgs vs Ids chart to determine the minimum gate voltage and make sure you exceed that. Figure 3 in the data sheet you linked.
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: Zero999 on September 12, 2018, 07:48:20 am
Hi

Can we also use a IRF540 to connect a arduino using a auxiliary BJT  + resistor dividor to toggle it? The dataheet from vishay says that the Vgs threshold is minimal 2V and maximum 4V so 3V in Gate would be save? Or this means the threshold towards the voltage on Drain?

(Edit)

Link to the datasheet:

https://www.vishay.com/docs/91021/91021.pdf (https://www.vishay.com/docs/91021/91021.pdf)
The IRFZ44N also gives the same threshold as the IRF540.

Looking at the graphs on the data sheet, the IRF540 will be similar to the IRFZ44N.

Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: malagas_on_fire on September 12, 2018, 08:50:18 am
The scale on the graphic is logaritmic so were to use 5V 1A on drain source, i can put 3V on the gate according to the graphs. it is for a low power application of maximum 1A peak, nominal maximum 200mA.

Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: Zero999 on September 12, 2018, 09:24:57 am
The scale on the graphic is logaritmic so were to use 5V 1A on drain source, i can put 3V on the gate according to the graphs. it is for a low power application of maximum 1A peak, nominal maximum 200mA.
Which graph are you talking about for which part?

5V of voltage drop between the drain and source would be unacceptable in most applications.
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: malagas_on_fire on September 12, 2018, 11:24:54 am
The graph on the IRF540 datasheet, Figure 3  which was advised from oPossum to pick the Vgs for the desired current .

See comments above for more details.
 
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: Zero999 on September 12, 2018, 12:37:08 pm
The graph on the IRF540 datasheet, Figure 3  which was advised from oPossum to pick the Vgs for the desired current .

See comments above for more details.
At a junction temperature of 25°C, it shows ID = 13A when VGS = 5V and VDS = 50V, an enormous voltage drop. The static power dissipation would be 650W, which is why it's tested with a 20μs pulse.
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: radhika on September 12, 2018, 12:48:19 pm
Can you guide me what is the appropriate frequency to drive Bost chopper from 3.7V to 19.5V when I have 150uH of the inductor?
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: Zero999 on September 12, 2018, 03:30:14 pm
Can you guide me what is the appropriate frequency to drive Bost chopper from 3.7V to 19.5V when I have 150uH of the inductor?
You don't design the boost converter round the inductor, but select the inductor to suit the application.

Here's a design guide from Texas Instruments
http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slva372c/slva372c.pdf (http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slva372c/slva372c.pdf)

Another tutorial, which I haven't read in depth.
https://www.powerelectronicsnews.com/problems-solutions/the-dc-dc-boost-converter-power-supply-design-tutorial-section-5-1 (https://www.powerelectronicsnews.com/problems-solutions/the-dc-dc-boost-converter-power-supply-design-tutorial-section-5-1)

And an example of an EE student's thesis, which I've only quickly scanned through, so it may contain errors.
http://ethesis.nitrkl.ac.in/4811/1/109EE0612.pdf (http://ethesis.nitrkl.ac.in/4811/1/109EE0612.pdf)
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: oPossum on September 12, 2018, 04:24:15 pm
The graph on the IRF540 datasheet, Figure 3  which was advised from oPossum to pick the Vgs for the desired current .

See comments above for more details.

For switching applications you must exceed that voltage so the MOSFET is not in the saturation region. Figure 3 shows the ohmic (linear) and saturation regions. The sloped part of the curve is the ohmic region. The horizontal part of the curve is the saturation region.
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: malagas_on_fire on September 12, 2018, 09:12:24 pm
I don't plan for use on  switch mode supply but to create a enable / disable 5V rail to another circuit using an auxiliary transistor, driven by an arduino.... let me just do a quick draw without values... and sorry for my poor english 

(Edit)

Here is a quick draw of the circuit.

1A peak and 200mA nominal of current 
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: JS on September 12, 2018, 09:16:16 pm
How much current will it have?

JS

Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: malagas_on_fire on September 12, 2018, 09:48:36 pm
Check my comment above. I re-edit to include a quick draw and the desired current 1A peak and 200mA nominal
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: JS on September 12, 2018, 10:07:57 pm
You need a P channel mosfet to switch the high side directly, a level shifter to get well over the rail (at least 5V) or a gate driver.

JS

Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: malagas_on_fire on September 12, 2018, 11:33:15 pm
Hi

Thanks for the information.

So it can't be done with a N channel between 5V and drain , source connected to ground? I have only N channel mosfet's laying around, but if the P channel is more suitable so be it.
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: JS on September 13, 2018, 12:42:06 am
The N channel is easier to drive connecting it between the load and ground. Pusging the gatr to 5V you can probably live with 200mA at it... Try it and see how much losses you have.

JS

Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: Zero999 on September 13, 2018, 09:36:12 am
I don't plan for use on  switch mode supply but to create a enable / disable 5V rail to another circuit using an auxiliary transistor, driven by an arduino.... let me just do a quick draw without values... and sorry for my poor english 

(Edit)

Here is a quick draw of the circuit.

1A peak and 200mA nominal of current
If you have a separate query then please start another thread, rather than hijacking this one, which is about making a boost converter, using an Arduino. Otherwise it causes confusion, about which post relates to which question.
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: malagas_on_fire on September 13, 2018, 10:30:20 am
Okay sorry for the confusion and highjack this thread, more related to lazy of creating one.  I'll create one further since i'll try to do the experiment ASAP.

Can i link some of the posts of this thread just to do a follow up?
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: Zero999 on September 13, 2018, 02:21:24 pm
Can i link some of the posts of this thread just to do a follow up?
Of course you may link to posts in other threads, including this one.
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: ogden on September 13, 2018, 02:32:20 pm
Can i link some of the posts of this thread just to do a follow up?
Of course you may link to posts in other threads, including this one.

I would say that it is highly recommended to do so when you leave thread you started/resurrected to create new one.
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: radhika on September 17, 2018, 05:39:20 am
Respected,
I have tried to drive IRFZ44N using 555 timer as per you all suggested. And even got required 19.5V from 3.7V using 33uH Inductor, 22uF capacitor and 68kOHM as the load resistor.
But, when I tried building circuit practically, the inductor got burned (I used inductor of color code orange, orange, black) :( And it too effect the IRFZ44N MOSFET. What to do? Why it burned up?
https://postimg.cc/7b0hKtNB (https://postimg.cc/7b0hKtNB)
https://postimg.cc/mPzgFdhN (https://postimg.cc/mPzgFdhN)

According to the suggested calculation of 100KHz, where I need to use 3.9uH inductor, Cout = 330uH I got 10V which is unstable and slowly varying as my output https://postimg.cc/gwm1Pj9X (https://postimg.cc/gwm1Pj9X)
And then I used 33uH, I got the required results and that too burned up :( What to do?
Also, the battery I am using is 3.7V 4000mah battery. Is it the reason?
Title: Re: IRFZ44N Mosftet with Arduino
Post by: ogden on September 17, 2018, 07:53:54 am
But, when I tried building circuit practically, the inductor got burned (I used inductor of color code orange, orange, black) :(

What is current rating of inductor you used? You shall not saturate inductor in your converter, it MUST have current handling margin. 33uH seems about right for 100KHz. I suggest to use widely popular inductor value you most likely have in your scrapbox, 100uH at 50KHz.

Your circuit does not have any feedback, PWM duty cycle is not controlled by output voltage which is very bad. Voltage can skyrocket, burn your downstream circuit in no time.

Don't use 555 to build switching supplies. [edit] Unless there is regulation feedback implemented somehow