Author Topic: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?  (Read 10248 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Electroplated

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 79
  • Country: gb
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #75 on: November 14, 2022, 08:34:59 pm »
My cat has a habit of plucking the carpets, the solution I found to work was make a scratching post and pad from similar carpet off cuts and entice the bugger near it with tasty treats, it may take some time and effort though.

My cat also has other ' interesting ' habits that I could not deal with so I got a big dog, he costs more than a cat but does less damage around the house.

Other peoples cats that encroach on my property are dealt with by the dog and a water pistol, these are the only things that seem to work, legally.

However, many years ago I had one tom that used to come in if the door was open and stink the house out, first trial anti cat device used cut up pipes strung along the fences on steel wires, all that did was stop the dam thing escaping so I removed the pipes and just made a small 'stinger' circuit, the fed a pair of steel wires, that worked, a few encounters with it and the cat never came back, neither did the window cleaner who used to use his ladder to enter my garden by climbing over the fence, he sent his old man around to tell me I was a nut case and had to find another window cleaner.

--
50 years working with electronics and I still wonder how small parts can have all that smoke inside !
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5571
  • Country: us
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #76 on: November 15, 2022, 03:33:52 am »
I know that cats will be cats.  I am speaking to the owners of cats.  They are the ones creating the situation by allowing/forcing the animal to live in an situation not balanced by the rules of tooth and claw.  In a natural environment an animal that over hints it's range starved.  The problem is self correcting.  But a pet cat goes home and eats and continues hunting.  This general concept extends to many other cat behaviors.

That's all very well, but we don't really get the blame for cats.  Dogs yes, we bred them into domestication (although first we bred them for work).  Cats came along for the ride themselves.  Self-domesticating.

The explanations are varied.  Most believe it was when humans began to cultivate, farm and therefore store food.  You store food you attract vermin.  Birds and mice and other small critters.  Cats seen an opportunity. Hang around the humans it's a win, win, cats get food, humans get pest control.  The relationship has been functioning that way for 1000s of years.  I don't think you can really call them domestic though.  Maybe purely "house" cats, but I'm fairly sure the instinct to survive out there in the wild still exists in most of them.  Dogs... not so much.  They have been bred far and away from their natural form.  They have been heavily domesticed and stand very little chance out in the wild.

A lot of the small innocent little critters would not be there if humans had not moved in and brought their food stores, scraps, bins.  So the "natural" balance is skewed anyway.

Typical cat owner response.  I have no responsibility.   

If you live on a farm and the cats moved in without your aid I mostly support this answer.  I have farm living relatives that have this happen all the time.  Also happens with dogs.  Seems that urban and suburban people find a need to let their critters run free and act naturally (and not eat so much food, do so much damage and require so much cleaning up afterwards.)  These relatives do find benefit from these animals in pest control, protection from predators (wild and human) and so regularly take these critters in and help them with food and shelter.  They do cull the crowd from time to time when the numbers become overwhelming.  They try to do it by finding adoption agencies and the lot, but when the problem overwhelms those options other solutions happen.

But if you are suburban or urban and adopted or bought a cat and then turn it out of the house at night you are to blame.  You have assumed responsibility for the animal, and that includes knowing the innate behaviors of that animal.  Your actions are why those innate behaviors are occurring in a given location and time. 

Do you think that if I owned an elephant and then turned it loose into the neighborhood to do what elephants do naturally that I would have no responsibility for the damage caused by that animal.  Of course not.  Same thing with a tiger.  If you own a tiger and turn it out at night I can guarantee that you better have a good lawyer and deep pockets.  The fact that a housecat does much smaller scale damage does not mean it is inconsequential.  Even housecats can have truly severe impact on people with extreme allergies or susceptibility to cat born illnesses.
 

Offline paulcaTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4364
  • Country: gb
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #77 on: November 15, 2022, 09:11:58 am »
So naturally cats avoid suburban and urban areas.   Right.  I have never seen a feral cat anywhere.

Everyone draws a line with nature.  Everyone.  We all kill millions and millions of life forms a day.  Some people stop at flies and bugs.  Some people stop at rodents.  The fact of the mater is most of those things we kill are a threat to us.  We don't see any harm in that.

Rats and mice spread FAR more pathogens than cats.  And without cats they are far harder and far more dangerous to get rid of.  Usually involving poison and chemicals.
"What could possibly go wrong?"
Current Open Projects:  STM32F411RE+ESP32+TFT for home IoT (NoT) projects.  Child's advent xmas countdown toy.  Digital audio routing board.
 

Offline PlainName

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7508
  • Country: va
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #78 on: November 15, 2022, 10:40:03 am »
Quote
Rats and mice spread FAR more pathogens than cats.  And without cats they are far harder and far more dangerous to get rid of.

In theory. We had a rat infestation (air brick got holed and they got under the floorboards and eventually chewed through some wiring, plunging the place into darkness). Really very difficult to get rid of them, but we did it with rat poison. Similarly, another lot (perhaps the same ones) turned up in the chicken palace due to the free food, and the only way to get rid of those was poison.

OTOH, the cats bring in kills and leave entrails around, typically just where you're going to walk before being fully awake. Sometimes they can't be bothered to eat the thing and leave half or more of it spread around. I'm fairly sure not having to clean that up would be less risk disease-wise!

Cats no doubt keep the rodent population down, but they're not a sure-fire solution. We have lots of cats around here (no problem with someone's cat shitting on someone elses lawn because their cats just do it back) but I still see huge rats in the ditches and drainage outlets sometimes.
 

Offline Fred27

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 727
  • Country: gb
    • Fred's blog
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #79 on: November 15, 2022, 10:47:42 am »
I would never advocate cruelty to animals. However, cats are evil little douchebags and deserve everything they get.

In fact, I find it odd that anyone who like animals can like domestic cats too. You just have to see them torturing rodents for fun or aimlessly killing birds to realise that they're a huge net negative in the natural world.
 

Offline vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7855
  • Country: au
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #80 on: November 15, 2022, 10:59:07 am »
With animals, love and kindness ALWAYS work best... and PATIENCE... and if you have none of those, don't have a cat. It's a blessing to you, not a nuisance to be fixed. Patience PAYS OFF.

Any advice for the neighbour's cat that persistently craps on your lawn then?
Advice to the cat?------ "Get off my lawn!"
 
The following users thanked this post: Gyro

Offline xrunner

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7836
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>???
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #81 on: November 15, 2022, 11:29:11 am »
I would never advocate cruelty to animals. However, cats are evil little douchebags and deserve everything they get.

In fact, I find it odd that anyone who like animals can like domestic cats too. You just have to see them torturing rodents for fun or aimlessly killing birds to realise that they're a huge net negative in the natural world.

Some of you may not remember the TV show "Kung Fu" but it had many clips of wisdom I remember to this day -

I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 
The following users thanked this post: Fred27, MK14

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13524
  • Country: gb
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #82 on: November 15, 2022, 11:34:03 am »
The topic of cats is always divisive but I love them, and their Big Cat cousins, and always will  :)

P.s. I am a guardian to 4 well balanced adorable cats who want for nothing, live in our large house and have an outside play area. They are not allowed to roam the neighbourhood causing trouble killing birds and wildlife or pooping in peoples gardens. We are responsible cat guardians  :-+
Interesting to note… many cat rescues support cats being kept indoors rather than allowed to roam neighbourhoods where they are at risk of harm or causing a nuisance ;) I lived in Australia so understand the harm that cats can do to indigenous small animals and birds.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2022, 11:48:12 am by Fraser »
If I have helped you please consider a donation : https://gofund.me/c86b0a2c
 

Online Zero999

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 20361
  • Country: gb
  • 0999
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #83 on: November 15, 2022, 11:53:53 am »
I would never advocate cruelty to animals. However, cats are evil little douchebags and deserve everything they get.

In fact, I find it odd that anyone who like animals can like domestic cats too. You just have to see them torturing rodents for fun or aimlessly killing birds to realise that they're a huge net negative in the natural world.
The problem is, you're projecting human emotions on to animals. Cats are no worse than other animals. Animals might look cute but they lack morals. Rats and mice for instance will eat one another. Birds will eat other birds. Other animals also kill others and don't eat them: wolves will kill coyotes and not eat them.

What's controversial is keeping cats as pets. They can be a nuisance to other people and kill engendered species, but they also control harmful pests. There are things which cat owners can do to minimise the impact of their pets, such as keeping them in at night, but some consider that to be inhumane to the cat.
 

Offline paulcaTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4364
  • Country: gb
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #84 on: November 15, 2022, 12:11:32 pm »
I have tried hard to keep my cat an indoor-at-night cat.  The plan was to never let her be out after dark, so she never got that drug in the first place.  That of course didn't work.  She managed to stay out all night several times and that was that over with.  I often feel sorry for her, because she asks so desperately to get out after dark and looks so distraught when I tell her "no.".  Most likely why she turns to me as a toy in the evenings.  Although weirdly, she has started to tell me to go to bed!  I think it's because she wants to be in the room with me, but as it's nighttime, she doesn't like the main lights on, she would prefer that I come and join her in the darkened bedroom where she is more comfortable.

Cats are not free from predators in sub-urban and urban areas.  A quite frighteningly large percentage of domestic cats are killed by their no. 1 predator.  The family car.

On keeping them in at night being "inhumane".  I'd rather it not get run-over, but yes..  I have been looking for a robotics project with a purpose and having a few random toys around the place which spontaneously activate at night might benefit us both!

Probably starting with a single servio attached to a laser pointer in the hallway.  Mosfet to turn it off.  Try and make it respond to the cat, but also be stuborn and not respond sometimes as well.

My cat likes games.  I feed her these jerky style treats, she goes NUTS for them.  So i took to placing them just out of easy reach, or hiding them in hard to get to places.  After a while the cat would start dropping the treat again and looking at me like the challenge I had set was too easy.  The last one was thrown into a pile of cardboard boxes in the junk room.  Took the cat half an hour to get in there and find it.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2022, 12:15:27 pm by paulca »
"What could possibly go wrong?"
Current Open Projects:  STM32F411RE+ESP32+TFT for home IoT (NoT) projects.  Child's advent xmas countdown toy.  Digital audio routing board.
 
The following users thanked this post: MK14

Offline Marco

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7044
  • Country: nl
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #85 on: November 15, 2022, 03:41:40 pm »
You just have to see them torturing rodents for fun or aimlessly killing birds to realise that they're a huge net negative in the natural world.
No, they are a caricature of the natural world. Human intervention has given them slightly more room to spread misery and death than most normal predators, but it's just a matter of degree.

Nature sucks.
 

Offline eti

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • !
  • Posts: 1801
  • Country: gb
  • MOD: a.k.a Unlokia, glossywhite, iamwhoiam etc
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #86 on: November 16, 2022, 12:37:58 am »
I would never advocate cruelty to animals. However, cats are evil little douchebags and deserve everything they get.

In fact, I find it odd that anyone who like animals can like domestic cats too. You just have to see them torturing rodents for fun or aimlessly killing birds to realise that they're a huge net negative in the natural world.
The problem is, you're projecting human emotions on to animals. Cats are no worse than other animals. Animals might look cute but they lack morals. Rats and mice for instance will eat one another. Birds will eat other birds. Other animals also kill others and don't eat them: wolves will kill coyotes and not eat them.

What's controversial is keeping cats as pets. They can be a nuisance to other people and kill engendered species, but they also control harmful pests. There are things which cat owners can do to minimise the impact of their pets, such as keeping them in at night, but some consider that to be inhumane to the cat.

Anthropomorphising is a software glitch of the human firmware. It astounds me, how little people know about their pets and how they function.
 

Offline aeberbach

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 238
  • Country: au
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #87 on: November 16, 2022, 03:37:58 am »
I don't know what the law is, where you live, but in the UK it's still illegal to harm someone else's pet, even if it's on your property without your consent.

Where I live local council encourages the capture of the cat, in a suitable cage (which I think they loan out, I have not asked), then the council animal officer comes and collects it. Owner pays a fine.
Software guy studying B.Eng.
 
The following users thanked this post: CatalinaWOW

Offline Marco

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7044
  • Country: nl
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #88 on: November 16, 2022, 08:23:19 am »
Anthropomorphising is a software glitch of the human firmware. It astounds me, how little people know about their pets and how they function.
You can make a value judgement about animals without thinking they have a human capability to make moral decisions.

Being an animal does not exempt a cat from being an evil little douchebag. They can't help it, but to an extent we can, at some point perhaps for all animals without destroying the ecosystem. Playing God.
 

Online Zero999

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 20361
  • Country: gb
  • 0999
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #89 on: November 16, 2022, 08:57:13 am »
Anthropomorphising is a software glitch of the human firmware. It astounds me, how little people know about their pets and how they function.
You can make a value judgement about animals without thinking they have a human capability to make moral decisions.

Being an animal does not exempt a cat from being an evil little douchebag. They can't help it, but to an extent we can, at some point perhaps for all animals without destroying the ecosystem. Playing God.
Then perhaps humans are the biggest evil little douchebags on the planet, as we can help it.
I don't know what the law is, where you live, but in the UK it's still illegal to harm someone else's pet, even if it's on your property without your consent.

Where I live local council encourages the capture of the cat, in a suitable cage (which I think they loan out, I have not asked), then the council animal officer comes and collects it. Owner pays a fine.
It seems like a good idea in theory, but I find that hard to believe. I'm not aware of any laws preventing cats from going in other people's gardens and doubt the owner can be fined, unless it has damaged property or made a mess. I regularly get cats in my garden. I probably find a turd ones every two months but don't know for certain whether it's a cat's. How do they find the owner in order to fine him or her?
I have tried hard to keep my cat an indoor-at-night cat.  The plan was to never let her be out after dark, so she never got that drug in the first place.  That of course didn't work.  She managed to stay out all night several times and that was that over with.  I often feel sorry for her, because she asks so desperately to get out after dark and looks so distraught when I tell her "no.".  Most likely why she turns to me as a toy in the evenings.  Although weirdly, she has started to tell me to go to bed!  I think it's because she wants to be in the room with me, but as it's nighttime, she doesn't like the main lights on, she would prefer that I come and join her in the darkened bedroom where she is more comfortable.

Cats are not free from predators in sub-urban and urban areas.  A quite frighteningly large percentage of domestic cats are killed by their no. 1 predator.  The family car.

On keeping them in at night being "inhumane".  I'd rather it not get run-over, but yes..  I have been looking for a robotics project with a purpose and having a few random toys around the place which spontaneously activate at night might benefit us both!

Probably starting with a single servio attached to a laser pointer in the hallway.  Mosfet to turn it off.  Try and make it respond to the cat, but also be stuborn and not respond sometimes as well.

My cat likes games.  I feed her these jerky style treats, she goes NUTS for them.  So i took to placing them just out of easy reach, or hiding them in hard to get to places.  After a while the cat would start dropping the treat again and looking at me like the challenge I had set was too easy.  The last one was thrown into a pile of cardboard boxes in the junk room.  Took the cat half an hour to get in there and find it.
Cats can also be a pain for the owner when kept in overnight, but that's part of the responsibility of having them. My parents had two cats. They normally went out at night, but when kept inside, they would often run about the house. I would always keep my bedroom door closed to stop them from coming in and waking me up.
 

Offline Sal Ammoniac

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1764
  • Country: us
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #90 on: November 16, 2022, 08:37:56 pm »
A flame thrower works well in this application. Collateral damage, however, is a bitch.
"That's not even wrong" -- Wolfgang Pauli
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21611
  • Country: us
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #91 on: November 16, 2022, 11:55:37 pm »
I would never advocate cruelty to animals. However, cats are evil little douchebags and deserve everything they get.

In fact, I find it odd that anyone who like animals can like domestic cats too. You just have to see them torturing rodents for fun or aimlessly killing birds to realise that they're a huge net negative in the natural world.

I think that most people that don't like cats have never taken the time to get to know one. Cats are introverts so it takes them a while to warm up to a person, and I can totally relate because I'm exactly the same way, my personality is very cat-like. My cats are very devoted to me and provide companionship without being clingy and dependent the way dogs are. They're self-cleaning and deposit their waste in a box so I never have to take them out. Rodents are nasty little parasites and cats getting rid of them is doing me a favor. My cats are indoor only so they don't bother the birds but frankly I'm not a big fan of birds either, they're noisy and they shit all over my car, I would much rather watch cats lounging in my garden than birds.
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21611
  • Country: us
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #92 on: November 16, 2022, 11:57:21 pm »
Cats can also be a pain for the owner when kept in overnight, but that's part of the responsibility of having them. My parents had two cats. They normally went out at night, but when kept inside, they would often run about the house. I would always keep my bedroom door closed to stop them from coming in and waking me up.

They are highly adaptable. While naturally nocturnal, I've had cats my whole life and usually after a few months they have adjusted to sleeping most or all of the night and being more active in the day when I'm around. As they get older they typically get calmer and sleep more, just like old people.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5571
  • Country: us
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #93 on: November 17, 2022, 06:15:57 am »
Fraser, you are obviously a responsible cat owner.  Not a surprise, you seem to do just about everything right.

My definition of a feral cat is one that is living without being intentionally fed or sheltered by a human.  In urban environments they are often called alley cats.  They are not socialized to humans, though in some cases they can be.  They are relatively infrequent in undeveloped areas because there are more predators and food sources are more difficult.  Here in North America the most common cat eaters are coyotes, bobcats and some species of hawks and owls.  These feral cats also exist in suburban environments, adapting to sheds, stoops, stored cars and other structures for shelter and dining on pet food intended for dogs and tame cats, as well as vermin, trash, small birds and anything else they find or can catch.  If you haven't seen one of these you either aren't looking very hard, or didn't recognize what you saw.  A prominent blogging veterinarian here in the US is fervently against killing stray and feral cats, but recommends capture, spaying and release as a way to allow these cats to "live their natural lives" while bringing the problem gradually under control.  I know of very few places where there is enough effort put into this to actually cause a population decline.

Liking or not liking cats is a personal preference.  I don't find the rewards match the effort, but I can easily see that others feel differently.  My personal preferences are buttressed by significant allergies to the critters.  Not surprisingly you often find that among the most fervent cat lovers are children.  They get the benefits of cat ownership while mom and dad often deal with all the downsides (food, litterboxes, furniture repairs and vet bills to name a few).

I haven't actually killed or harmed a cat, but do haze them regularly to attempt to keep them away from my property.  But I continue to be irritated by cat people who blithely ignore or dismiss complaints about the critters that they foist on the area.  If the critter would not be there without your actions it is difficult to argue that there is no responsibility.  To me it is like someone playing loud music saying that sound travels in all directions.  It is physics and nothing they can do anything about.
 

Offline paulcaTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4364
  • Country: gb
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #94 on: November 17, 2022, 08:47:41 am »
Like everything I think humans virtue signal their humanity and cherry pick their examples.

Probably more rodents and criters killed per loaf of bread than by any domestic cat, for example.

If you want to live your life completely sin free and without harm to any other life.   Best end it.  That's about the only way.

Also in a lot of areas of life, if you don't kill, you don't survive.  Consider if we include everything down to the bacteria and other pathogenic life.  If you don't kill, it will kill you.
"What could possibly go wrong?"
Current Open Projects:  STM32F411RE+ESP32+TFT for home IoT (NoT) projects.  Child's advent xmas countdown toy.  Digital audio routing board.
 

Offline aeberbach

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 238
  • Country: au
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #95 on: November 17, 2022, 10:31:24 am »
It seems like a good idea in theory, but I find that hard to believe.

It can be hard to accept that things are done differently in different parts of the world eh? Typically pets are registered and chipped here - a vet inserts a grain of rice RFID pellet under the pet’s skin. The information on that pellet can be scanned fairly easily, so it is no trouble to find the owner. If unregistered the animal goes to the RSPCA (where it is registered and chipped before being offered for adoption).

Software guy studying B.Eng.
 
The following users thanked this post: CatalinaWOW

Offline Marco

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7044
  • Country: nl
Re: Is a "Fly swatter" circuit appropriate for a cat?
« Reply #96 on: November 17, 2022, 04:52:49 pm »
If you want to live your life completely sin free and without harm to any other life.   Best end it.  That's about the only way.

For you a billion others and predators won't stop toying with prey either. Unless you can stop the universe, the only way way to reduce suffering in it is helping humanity's technological and moral progress in life ... by arguing with strangers on the internet ;)

Even the Zen Buddhist from xrunner's Kung Fu clip has a more productive way to deal with suffering, go around and teach people it doesn't matter. Zen can not keep the cat from ripping up the carpet though, it can just teach you it's not a problem. Technology in the form of say a scratching post and positive/negative rewarded behaviour modification can keep the cat from ripping up the carpet. Zen and technology both provide solutions, suicide is just avoiding responsibility.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf