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tooki:

--- Quote from: PlainName on May 18, 2023, 07:49:49 pm ---Commercial web browsers got dethroned by Microsoft embedding IE in Windows. Nothing to do with open source.

--- End quote ---
IE was a commercial web browser. The fact that they bundled it with Windows didn't make it non-commercial.

switchabl:
Blender is probably the big one on the desktop, no? It hasn't replaced commercial 3D software (which seems like an almost impossibly high bar) but I think is now considered one of the "serious" options.

Also, for better or worse, I guess Eclipse still makes up a good chunk of the IDE market (and VS Code is getting quite popular among the more lightweight code editors).

PlainName:

--- Quote from: tooki on May 18, 2023, 09:21:24 pm ---
--- Quote from: PlainName on May 18, 2023, 07:49:49 pm ---Commercial web browsers got dethroned by Microsoft embedding IE in Windows. Nothing to do with open source.

--- End quote ---
IE was a commercial web browser. The fact that they bundled it with Windows didn't make it non-commercial.

--- End quote ---

I didn't say it was non-commercial. Please don't read into my posts stuff I haven't written.

Simon:

--- Quote from: tggzzz on May 18, 2023, 08:03:57 am ---
I've only dabbled in 3D design, but it seems to me there is a lot in common with programming paradigms and languages that support a paradigm.

There's the OpenSCAD type, where you add/subtract parameterised geometric shapes. Very similar to procedural languages.

There are constraint-based tools, where specify a subset of relationships between objects and let the tool work out the unspecified relationships. Much like declarative languages.

There are wire-mesh tools, where you squeeze and pull the mesh to get what looks right. Much like office diagram tools.

You have to choose the paradigm (and therefore tool) that best matches the way you think about and express your solution to the problem. Hence if you want to make a box, don't use a wire mesh tool; do use OpenSCAD. OTOH if you want to make a sculpture of a bust, then don't use a constraint-based tool but do use a wire mesh tool.

The analogies with programming languages is, I hope, uncontroversial.

--- End quote ---

You refer to programming languages, yes open source 3D cad is still stuck there, like how I dabbled with 2D cad at school in a windows program that basically had a command line. These days serious 3D cad tools have a nice gui, it means that we can create as our imagination imagines rather than trying to remember syntax and it's easy and flexible.

The reason why Creo is so terrible is that it was very much a command line program that they shoe horned a GUI around. I read online that Creo is great when you know how to use it. I take this to mean that Creo is crap and once you know how to use it you won't admit to using something that has to be the winner of the worlds worse commercial GUI. FreeCAD follows directly in it's footsteps with the added bonus that it can't do much of the math required. I understand, the math is complex, even Solid Edge up until a few years ago would often complain of a "zero thickness manifold" this was code for, you have to surfaces that touch in an infinitesimally small point that is less than the smallest unit the software can work in, indeed 2 tangent cylinders don't actually share anything. FreeCAD has this sort of error constantly on anything sensible while it claims to be great, whilst also being at version 0.20.2, so go figure.

nctnico:

--- Quote from: Simon on May 16, 2023, 06:55:34 pm ---
--- Quote from: floobydust on May 15, 2023, 09:40:32 pm ---
How are we measuring the difficulty changing over, learning the new software?
If it's taking a long time, surely it's due to low IQ? How many hours are you allotting for the new staff to get up to speed?

I saw many well-educated, intelligent EE's choke when expected to figure it out on their own. Because CADD software complexity is ever increasing and most has old legacy and clutzy UI to make it harder. No EE likes to be in a new job and starting from scratch with the tools. Or even hired in the first place - employers want the skills right off the bat.
Try sit down with AutoCAD or SolidWorks and tell me you can pick that up in a few days - no, you need the courses on it and months of experience.

Still thinking a software change is not difficult - it trashed morale, needed new libraries built, and months before people were fluent, and even then slow going.
We are assuming it's no big deal to change over and I say careful, it may no longer be trivial.

--- End quote ---

I have found that by and large ECAD is the same process and methods most of the time. It's not too difficult to get the basics if you need to.

--- End quote ---
Until you want to do something complex and want to have the software to do the heavy lifting for you. I have worked with PCB layout tools you can get proficient with within a few days and with tools that litterally take weeks. But the investment of time in the latter pays back in spades for complex boards.

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