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Is the S**t about to hit the you tube fan

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SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: Red Squirrel on August 06, 2019, 03:53:33 pm ---Can't youtube just ban all the channels that decide to join the union?

--- End quote ---

Well, as long as they don't actively promote the union in Youtube videos, I don't think they would really have a ground for banning them. As they are independent workers, what happens outside of Youtube is probably none of Youtube's business, as long as it's not illegal per se (such as false claims/false information/etc.)

But if they do, that could easily pass as disloyal to Youtube, which then could ban them I suppose.

Imagine the extreme situation in which a channel would consist almost exclusively of videos bashing Youtube. Not sure it would last for very long.


--- Quote from: Red Squirrel on August 06, 2019, 03:53:33 pm ---Unfortunately you still have to abide by the rules and when they don't even tell you what the rules are... it makes life difficult.

--- End quote ---

Fair enough. But again, there is no obligation from either side here. A Youtuber has no obligation to post new videos, Youtube has no obligation to keep them available...


--- Quote from: Red Squirrel on August 06, 2019, 03:53:33 pm ---Technically Youtubers can upload to alternate sites too but then Youtube can also turn around and say that if you upload to Youtube then they own all copyright of your video and you're not allowed to upload it anywhere else.

--- End quote ---

But do they do this? Does Youtube actually own copyright of posted videos? I don't think so? And I highly doubt they could ever pull that off. That would ruin their business IMO, and again as long as they don't actually BUY the right to own the copyright, they just can't have it. When they give money to Youtubers, they don't buy the copyrights, they just give them back a fraction of whatever money the video makes for Youtube AFAIK...

David Hess:
There is no requirement for YouTube to justify anything they do.  It might be bad public relations but that is it.  They already are very nebulous about violations for this very reason.

SparkyFX:

--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on August 06, 2019, 04:10:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: Red Squirrel on August 06, 2019, 03:53:33 pm ---Can't youtube just ban all the channels that decide to join the union?

--- End quote ---
Well, as long as they don't actively promote the union in Youtube videos, I don't think they would really have a ground for banning them. As they are independent workers, what happens outside of Youtube is probably none of Youtube's business, as long as it's not illegal per se (such as false claims/false information/etc.)

But if they do, that could easily pass as disloyal to Youtube, which then could ban them I suppose.
--- End quote ---
I think that might go to some higher court then, as the connection of unionizing and disloyalty would be as much an imputation/libel as it would mean they handle creators like employees. Probably won´t happen unless legally required to treat unions as terror organizations.

In itself the problem is less that YT rewards creators for content the way they do (they somehow needed, otherwise there would be no way to sort out the copyright violations that threatened the platform, by setting it directly on a monetary base and then redirecting the money to the source), the assumption that you can depend most of your income on youtube was made by the creators in the first place, based on the experience they made so far.

The hidden employee status might be too big of a stretch in a freelancing scenario, but i think a contract that involves being paid at will of the other party is a legal problem of some sort, after you invested effort into it. There is some ambiguity, as the content might just have no views or be of low value, but  high view count/watch time and demonetization without a reason given kind of break the contract, and willful setting of the price does not help either. The value is not the only parameter, it could also be the measurement of watchtime (not independently measured).

Unions don´t care about freelancers, they usually work for the contract details as offered. It just happens that this falls in the same time in which others try to pay for labor by making it look like freelancing, although the laborer is doing full time for them under horrible conditions. This would be a huge loophole which even the government is not interested to grow big (loss of taxes, voters, undermining of workers rights and laws), so the unions get involved.


--- Quote ---Imagine the extreme situation in which a channel would consist almost exclusively of videos bashing Youtube. Not sure it would last for very long.
--- End quote ---
They don´t have to delete it (that might get them into problems with free speech, depending on country), but they can set the value of it and not recommend it to viewers.

EEVblog:

--- Quote from: SparkyFX on August 06, 2019, 01:47:20 am ---
--- Quote from: Red Squirrel on August 04, 2019, 06:16:43 pm ---Sounds like a neat idea but what can a union really do?
--- End quote ---
As they stated, they might generally sue based on hidden employee status or unspecific GDPR issues. If that happens they not only sue for their unionized members, but might lead to decisions that affect all.

--- End quote ---

And that's the worry, what if they screw it up for everyone?

EEVblog:

--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on August 06, 2019, 04:10:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: Red Squirrel on August 06, 2019, 03:53:33 pm ---Can't youtube just ban all the channels that decide to join the union?

--- End quote ---
Well, as long as they don't actively promote the union in Youtube videos, I don't think they would really have a ground for banning them. As they are independent workers, what happens outside of Youtube is probably none of Youtube's business, as long as it's not illegal per se (such as false claims/false information/etc.)
But if they do, that could easily pass as disloyal to Youtube, which then could ban them I suppose.

--- End quote ---

It's already against the T&C to promote other live streaming services like Twitch in a Youtube video
https://www.reddit.com/r/Twitch/comments/8s8ujf/youtube_is_cracking_down_on_twitch_streamers/

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