Author Topic: Is there any theoretical limit to stupidity? (Android permission auto-revoke)  (Read 10686 times)

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Offline PlainName

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My deepest and sincerest sympathy goes out to you for choosing anything Xiaomi phone. I bought one (I'm well informed) as a stop gap, two years ago. Yeah.... nope. Never again. MIUI is too awful.to be called a joke, since jokes are funny.

I bought a Xiaomi Mi A1 (being well-informed you would know the significance of the A1) and like it so much I recently bought a second-hand spare because mine is starting to show issues. MIUI is just like any other custom frontend - the first thing any seriously bothered user would do is replace it with their preferred choice - mine is Nova Launcher, but alternatives exist.

My spare is now running LineageOS, so it's a) not running anything Xiaomi, and b) at Android 11 spec. Being well-informed you would know that Xiaomi have an established way to unlock the bootloader, something other manufacturers aren't so hot on.

 

Offline SiliconWizard

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My deepest and sincerest sympathy goes out to you for choosing anything Xiaomi phone. I bought one (I'm well informed) as a stop gap, two years ago. Yeah.... nope. Never again. MIUI is too awful.to be called a joke, since jokes are funny.

I bought a Xiaomi Mi A1 (being well-informed you would know the significance of the A1) and like it so much I recently bought a second-hand spare because mine is starting to show issues. MIUI is just like any other custom frontend - the first thing any seriously bothered user would do is replace it with their preferred choice - mine is Nova Launcher, but alternatives exist.

My spare is now running LineageOS, so it's a) not running anything Xiaomi, and b) at Android 11 spec. Being well-informed you would know that Xiaomi have an established way to unlock the bootloader, something other manufacturers aren't so hot on.

Yeah, the phone I had the least pain installing a non-official OS (CM) was a Xiaomi one.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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There is really no way out of this hole as long as you keep believing that it is "your" phone!  Once you accept that the phone isn't yours, and you begin treating it as if it had been issued to you by your employer, you will be a lot happier.

Yeah, we'll be happy not owning anything. We got that. :popcorn:
 

Online Siwastaja

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Do you really need a smartphone?

I still live without. I have a small laptop with long battery life, which runs linux and boots in 8 seconds. I do have mobile internet. This computer acts like a traditional computer without much BS going on.  I can do most of the things people do with smart phones, except better, with the "downside" being the extra 15 second threshold of taking the thing out of my backpack and turning it on. This is of no issue because you rarely actually need to do anything on the go. Smart phones are really used for the instant dopamine entertainment bullshit so that you don't need to spend one minute with "nothing to do". The detrimental effect for mental health is undisputed. Sure, you don't need to use the smartphone like that, but once you don't do that, then you will also see that the appeal diminishes.

The only thing I can't do is if some crap company etc. absolutely requires me to use an app only available for a specific brand of "smartphone", from their app store, and purposely offer neither a web interface nor a portable application. There is no sane reason to do so, and as I don't negotiate with terrorists, I just take my business elsewhere I guess? But in reality, I haven't had to go that far, I've been able to do everything I want, always.
 
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Offline eti

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My deepest and sincerest sympathy goes out to you for choosing anything Xiaomi phone. I bought one (I'm well informed) as a stop gap, two years ago. Yeah.... nope. Never again. MIUI is too awful.to be called a joke, since jokes are funny.

I bought a Xiaomi Mi A1 (being well-informed you would know the significance of the A1) and like it so much I recently bought a second-hand spare because mine is starting to show issues. MIUI is just like any other custom frontend - the first thing any seriously bothered user would do is replace it with their preferred choice - mine is Nova Launcher, but alternatives exist.

My spare is now running LineageOS, so it's a) not running anything Xiaomi, and b) at Android 11 spec. Being well-informed you would know that Xiaomi have an established way to unlock the bootloader, something other manufacturers aren't so hot on.

Being snotty achieves nothing except to be a repellant, and make one come across as unpleasant- I’d know, I’ve done my fair share of it, I’m not proud of that.

I own a Redmi Note 7, which I unlocked well over two years ago and installed “Pixel experience” on, making it pretty usable.
 

Offline PlainName

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Do you really need a smartphone?

Yes. Er, no. Probably.

Phone isn't important to me apart from SMS which is the most important part (before smartphones and dumbphones I used a pager). But I like the ability to carry a camera, have a map, share my real-time location on a run, be told when the doorbell is pressed, etc. Apart from the text ability all the others are useful but non-critical, but add them all together and it's irresistible. Hell, even my partner who swears blind that phones, and particularly smart ones, are spawn of the devil currently carries three around!

I think what you should be asking is, "do you really need to be checking FaceUp every 5 minutes?" AFAICS, there is nothing about a smartphone that forces you to use any part of it you don't want to, or even carry the thing at all. Or own one. The problem is not the phone.
 

Offline Fredderic

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Do you really need a smartphone?

Yes.  It's my phone. watch, calendar, wallet, and expansion memory.

Before the smartphone I had an actual wallet, a PDA, a watch, and no phone, and they all periodically got damaged, broken, or outright lost.  These days, I only even have my wallet when I drive somewhere, and I can use a slim one that's basically just a couple cards.

Looking after one phone has been much easier (I've only broken one, and that was a fumbled 0.5m unlucky drop on to concrete), rarely lose it, and the rare occasions when I do, yelling "Hey Google, find my phone" (or getting the nearest person to call it for me) quickly resolves that!  Plus, sooo much less stuff crammed into my pockets.

Do you really need power?  Of course not.  You can live without it…  but…  I'm not sure I'd want to — wouldn't be able to charge my smartphone!
 

Offline eti

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 😉
 

Offline PlainName

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The only thing I can't do is if some crap company etc. absolutely requires me to use an app only available for a specific brand of "smartphone", from their app store, and purposely offer neither a web interface nor a portable application.

Now that is a problem that can get right up my nose. There are some suppliers, and even one of my banks, who insist that support chat is performed via the phone app - I really hate typing more than a few words on a tiny virtual keyboard (and am amazed at those who can two-thumb at near normal typing speeds).

I put this kind of thing down to phones being more common than Windows or Mac or Linux, and it's cheaper to target one device than everything. Is it better than developing a Java app? Hmmm. So here the popularity, and usefulness, of smartphones has worked against the users of them (except those users who do actually live via their phones).
 

Offline SilverSolder

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The only thing I can't do is if some crap company etc. absolutely requires me to use an app only available for a specific brand of "smartphone", from their app store, and purposely offer neither a web interface nor a portable application.

Now that is a problem that can get right up my nose. There are some suppliers, and even one of my banks, who insist that support chat is performed via the phone app - I really hate typing more than a few words on a tiny virtual keyboard (and am amazed at those who can two-thumb at near normal typing speeds).

I put this kind of thing down to phones being more common than Windows or Mac or Linux, and it's cheaper to target one device than everything. Is it better than developing a Java app? Hmmm. So here the popularity, and usefulness, of smartphones has worked against the users of them (except those users who do actually live via their phones).

That kind of thing is a reason to switch to a different bank or whatever.   Funny thing is, if you say that to them, more often than not, it turns out it isn't necessary to use the app after all!

 

Offline PlainName

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I figured out a way to get around it,  but usually I don't need banking support (I've only contacted a different one, where I've had an account for many, many years, to complain about something and they fobbed me off anyway). It's other benefits outweigh this potential aggro.
 

Online Siwastaja

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If it's something unimportant, I just don't communicate with them. If they are not willing to sell me something I want, then I buy it from elsewhere.

If it's something important, like me already being a customer and bank losing my money, and there is no communication channel I can use, then I only communicate with them through authorities. If I had more money at my disposal, lawyers can make it work quicker.

Besides, having the communication channel usually isn't enough. Chances are high you are facing a biological chatbot; an actual human person who has no training and no authority to do anything, and who has been programmed into detecting single words like 1980's chatbot software, and then reply something not related to the matter at all.

I have had two serious complaints during the last maybe 5 years, one with a phone company who accidentally closed my phone service completely because of their broken process, and bank who "accidentally" left my old card active when they "upgraded" it into a new card. In both cases, communication was exactly like 80's chatbot, and only after very thorough explanation of which exact authorities and media houses are to be contacted, at which exact dates, only then something started to happen. You need to go far enough to trigger their process of involving their lawyers, and give enough time (2 weeks in latter case) to do that.

I try to avoid using "services" as much as I can, knowing how to do everything myself. It provides a very stress-free life. The idea that paid services make life easier was maybe working in 1960's when this culture started. Nowadays most of it is just incompetence, understaffing, and cost gone through all roofs, and the downhill has accelerated during the last decade.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2022, 11:12:32 am by Siwastaja »
 

Online Zero999

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Take the US election in 2016 as an example.
What was stupid about the US 2016 election? I've heard many say the that about the 2020 election!

When I saw this comment, I thought I was reading the another thread. A big part of human stupidity is not being able to see why others think differently, understand why the voted for a different party, make different decisions or have a different culture/religion. It's true that people often genuinely make stupid mistakes, but sometimes they're right and you're wrong, or neither party is right.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Take the US election in 2016 as an example.
What was stupid about the US 2016 election? I've heard many say the that about the 2020 election!

When I saw this comment, I thought I was reading the another thread. A big part of human stupidity is not being able to see why others think differently, understand why the voted for a different party, make different decisions or have a different culture/religion. It's true that people often genuinely make stupid mistakes, but sometimes they're right and you're wrong, or neither party is right.

What seems to have been lost or diminished is the ability to respect and get along with people that you don't agree with...   being able to do a little "give and take" to make things work.
 

Online themadhippy

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Do you really need a smartphone?
Nope,been phone free for a few years now.
 

Offline eti

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Offline SilverSolder

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There are pluses and minuses with both of the duopolists.  I don't get along well with the "walled" nature of iOS, even if the user experience is very slick and well done. 
 
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Offline eti

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There are pluses and minuses with both of the duopolists.  I don't get along well with the "walled" nature of iOS, even if the user experience is very slick and well done.

I feel that people often (and ALWAYS in error, as they ALWAYS focus on that one small aspect and skim over everything else) see the "walled garden" as ONLY keeping them in; no - it keeps all the junk/spam/attacks/tracking, OUT, no compromise.
 

Offline ve7xen

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There are pluses and minuses with both of the duopolists.  I don't get along well with the "walled" nature of iOS, even if the user experience is very slick and well done.

I feel that people often (and ALWAYS in error, as they ALWAYS focus on that one small aspect and skim over everything else) see the "walled garden" as ONLY keeping them in; no - it keeps all the junk/spam/attacks/tracking, OUT, no compromise.

No it doesn't, it keeps the junk/useful apps/competition/tracking that doesn't further Apple's interests OUT, including things that may further MY interests. Which is a distinctly different thing. Apple's behaviour in their 'walled garden' is so blatantly predatory, it does not justify the marginal to nonexistent benefit, at least if you are a remotely competent technology user.

Both major platforms are technologically 'fine', if you like one or the other, it's because of your own preferences, as SilverSolder says, they each have pros and cons. I happen to think Apple's behaviour is evil and leading us to dark places technology wise, where users no longer own their devices or control what they do. We don't accept 'benevolent dictatorship' from our governments, I've no idea why people advocate it (with bonus profit motive!) for our technology that is much more closely tied to our daily lives.

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I put this kind of thing down to phones being more common than Windows or Mac or Linux, and it's cheaper to target one device than everything. Is it better than developing a Java app? Hmmm. So here the popularity, and usefulness, of smartphones has worked against the users of them (except those users who do actually live via their phones).

The thing I don't get is that all of these devices have web browsers. Hell, most mobile apps are more or less just browser apps repackaged anyway. I guess they think they gain mindshare by forcing you to install an icon on your device? But I really don't get why 90% of these apps can't just be delivered through a browser regardless of platform.
73 de VE7XEN
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Offline SilverSolder

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[...]
The thing I don't get is that all of these devices have web browsers. Hell, most mobile apps are more or less just browser apps repackaged anyway. I guess they think they gain mindshare by forcing you to install an icon on your device? But I really don't get why 90% of these apps can't just be delivered through a browser regardless of platform.

I guess apps are even better at tracking and monitoring behaviour than web browsers!
 
 

Offline SilverSolder

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There are pluses and minuses with both of the duopolists.  I don't get along well with the "walled" nature of iOS, even if the user experience is very slick and well done.

I feel that people often (and ALWAYS in error, as they ALWAYS focus on that one small aspect and skim over everything else) see the "walled garden" as ONLY keeping them in; no - it keeps all the junk/spam/attacks/tracking, OUT, no compromise.

My views are formed by past bad experiences with trying to move or copy files between iDevices and Wintel PCs...  OMG what a tangled web that can be, for something conceptually so simple.

Then there was the time where an iOS update destroyed my well loved iPhone 4s - the battery life went from several days to a few hours - it was ridiculous.   Apple would not let me roll back the OS.  The perfectly good phone became junk...   I am still angry about that, years later, and it is absolutely a factor in me avoiding Apple phones to this day.

With my Android devices, I simply plug in a USB cord and have at it, just the way you'd expect it to work.

I agree that the Google stuff spies on you and tracks everything you do.  It sucks, but I avoid it by keeping a minimum of personally identifiable data on the phone.  I totally understand that I don't own my phone and that the landlord can do what he pleases.

I wish Microsoft/Nokia and/or Blackberry had been more successful, so we could have some alternatives to the current stale duopoly offerings...
 

Offline IanB

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My views are formed by past bad experiences with trying to move or copy files between iDevices and Wintel PCs...  OMG what a tangled web that can be, for something conceptually so simple.

I think that is more a question of feature development not catching up fast enough. Things are much better today with file sharing and synchronization through the cloud. Any file I want on my Windows desktop I just say "send to OneDrive" or "send to iCloud" and it works just as I need it to. Items like photos are automatically sync'd so that as soon as I take a picture on my phone it is there on my desktop waiting for me.
 

Offline PlainName

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with file sharing and synchronization through the cloud. Any file I want on my Windows desktop I just say "send to OneDrive" or "send to iCloud" and it works just as I need it to

Whereas with all my Android phones I can FTP into them, access a web-based file manager over wifi and upload/download individual files or automatically create a zip of them all to transfer en bloc, shove a USB cable up it, browse (on the phone) to any local PC share, use Nextcloud (despite its name it's a Dropbox clone running on-prem), ...

None of them accesses anyone elses machine, cloud or not, nor do they need to get permission off anyone but me.
 

Offline IanB

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Whereas with all my Android phones I can FTP into them...

Wow. I haven't used FTP since the 90's. It's nice to be reminded of an ancient technology.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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with file sharing and synchronization through the cloud. Any file I want on my Windows desktop I just say "send to OneDrive" or "send to iCloud" and it works just as I need it to

Whereas with all my Android phones I can FTP into them, access a web-based file manager over wifi and upload/download individual files or automatically create a zip of them all to transfer en bloc, shove a USB cable up it, browse (on the phone) to any local PC share, use Nextcloud (despite its name it's a Dropbox clone running on-prem), ...

None of them accesses anyone elses machine, cloud or not, nor do they need to get permission off anyone but me.

Yep. Having the freedom of accessing your data in a strictly private manner and in standard ways is IMHO non-negotiable.
And that's at least one plus of Android.
 


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