Is this the industial method of mass soldering or cheapo way??

[Simon]

I think you need to see some of this "free world" before you can make many of your sweeping statements

I'm afraid that at the end of the day low costs is the only thing people want.

I'm afraid that at the end of the day, some countries  , they will not make income , by producing electronics.
Some countries they will not be called master heads , because they think that they own technology,
as to was an object , or an monopoly that their own..

The Americans use to say .. we are in a free Country ..  well guess what , now you are in a free world.
And you have only one option , to adjust ( by doing other products like farming ) or die .  

And something about the environmental stuff .. I do not know what is worst , smoking chimneys of working factories, or to test on your own soil  Nukes ..

Germany has an large car industry , and an heavy industry too ,  they live fine and healthy.  


About me , I am totally unlucky , I had born in a City , that has lots of small metallurgies doing laser cut - water jet cutting, and any way they all working with metals .
And I have as only option if I work as employ to work for them .
Thats why I took the decision , to be always an freelancer Boss of my self .  

 

[Kiriakos-GR]

Well  about the "free world sweeping statement ",  it represents the ability of making electronics worldwide.

Currently we have limit our view to the very small scale of electronics, like small handhold devices .

With my industrial eye glasses ,  I have see for example, the Bystronic brand , that does large scale laser cutting machines , or many ultra complex CNC solutions ...

There is out there , one " free world "  building  or better said .. making miracles.
But most of them are for the manufacturing production.

One simple PCB soldering bath , its not the major example , so to tell of what are happening in the all planet.  




Now I am going to get some supplies , I will spent the weekend next to the sea (last weekend of my vacations) , we have 37-40C in this corner of the "free world "  

 

[saturation]

Although China is growing fast, a huge segment of its populace live in poverty levels, by western standards.  Here is the UN's human development index:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index



Soldering this way, and potentially getting a toxic pneumonia and getting seriously ill years later is probably preferable to being jobless, starving and dying in days.  Getting such folks employed at least, is probably their government's priority, thus the plethora of low cost labor.

Its not far an offshoot of the method they use to desolder in recycling:





then after a hard day of work, get some water to drink with electronics flavoring:

[Simon]

yep, all of the so called recycling is done in the worst of conditions and is not exactly eco-friendly

[Mechatrommer]

you people are so lucky to be living in a well developed and "pampered" country.
@saturation: i dont think they will use the water for drinking, in the last picture.
only stupid or lazy people (or goverment) will do that, instead of making effort to find a clear water.
this thing more involve in goverment policy and how they treat their citizen... and business. IMHO.

[Mechatrommer]

United States is a big country, but the government still facing the economic problem, same thing to other big countries, and the same to smaller countries including us. Its just an utter bullshit for me. The only logic that i can accept is The Rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer. maybe i wander off topic a bit

[Simon]

United States is a big country, but the government still facing the economic problem, same thing to other big countries, and the same to smaller countries including us. Its just an utter bullshit for me. The only logic that i can accept is The Rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer. maybe i wander off topic a bit

no bang on topic and that is the way it is, the world is about making more money than you need just because you can, any human being ultimately wants power but few know what to do with that power except ruin the lives of his fellow human beings who are probably far superior to him but for all his useless money

[Kiriakos-GR]

United States is a big country

Its only the 3% of the global population .. this is called "small" as number.

And in order to return in the on topic mode , I will say that the primary subject had be answered .

And if some one likes to continue to do propaganda , he must show to us , and some pictures,
from the homeless in New York , and from where they drink water !!  or eat !!

[Simon]

United States is a big country

Its only the 3% of the global population .. this is called "small" as number.

And in order to return in the on topic mode , I will say that the primary subject had be answered .

And if some one likes to continue to do propaganda , he must show to us , and some pictures,
from the homeless in New York , and from where they drink water !!  or eat !!

well you can speak last, your the one that advocates Chinese products because they are CHEAP, if we didn't buy Chinese those people that your so fast to point out that don't have jobs and live on the streets of a country in debt might be in work and helping the country have an export and get out of debt !!!

[Rhythmtech]

United States is a big country

Its only the 3% of the global population .. this is called "small" as number.

And in order to return in the on topic mode , I will say that the primary subject had be answered .

And if some one likes to continue to do propaganda , he must show to us , and some pictures,
from the homeless in New York , and from where they drink water !!  or eat !!

I think your contrast of homelessness to economic conditions is a bad benchmark. If the economy is bad and nobody has a lot of money, then the market should adjust to the lowered incomes. This only becomes a problem in economies with the very rich and the very poor.

Us 3% seem to still be outproducing the 97% of the others, what gives? We consume more because we make more. So the Chinese are catching up because they are industrious, some of us disagree with their methods and hope they will improve.  Competition is healthy, I welcome it. Has the EU not done nothing for Greece and let them spiral further into economic hardship? Is China going to save Greece?

[Kiriakos-GR]

Is China going to save Greece?

I do not see why not , we both have 5.000 years of history, and we both respect its other..  

[Simon]

you really do talk a load of tosh (rubbish)!, if you want to know about the wonderful relationship between an EU country and china just look at the bloody mess the UK is in, with no more jobs (all gone to china) no more manufacturing (gone to china) and no pride in our country because we all know what a dump it has become

[Kiriakos-GR]

and no pride in our country because we all know what a dump it has become

Well I am trying hard , to keep my coarse on this post " on topic " ,
and I also know that your version of the story,
has political  roots ...  so put on a hot pan with boiling oil , your politicians ..
And let the hard workers in China , to enjoy an hot piece of bread.
They getting it with an honest way, and they worth it. 

They have politicians , that they do not hang out with the wrong people.

[Simon]

and is it the fault of the people that our politicians are corrupt (all of the EU and rest of the world actually) ?

Chinese politicians don't hang out with the wrong people ? if we did not want to buy so cheap they would have a better standard of living. if the chinese government wanted a good quality of life for its people it would establish a minimum wage, but I bet it did not, why ? so they can make stuff cheap and sell it to us, if they were paid a decent wage we would find it cheaper to have it made here in our own countries. (remember transport costs)

I worked for a man once in Italy who wanted to source clothes and other like stuff from china and india, and it was one big merry go round of crap products for pennies and most companies not having a catalogue because all they did was "photocopy" your sample, we got samples from one company of towels and the logo on it was for a client of the man i was working for ! the only objective in chinese manufacture is how much money can the company owner make, oh wait, doesn't this sound familiar yea it's what the countries of the EU and the rest of the world do too.

Chinese politicians don't hang out with the wrong people ? what do you think our politicians are who they meet to strike trade deals with

Really kiriakos your line of perspective is truly bent, I suggest you buy a new ruler, we all live together in this mess, your either a worker being ripped off or a politician/company owner (most politicians own companies and make sure the laws made are good for them !)

[Kiriakos-GR]

Really kiriakos your line of perspective is truly bent, I suggest you buy a new ruler, we all live together in this mess, your either a worker being ripped off or a politician/company owner (most politicians own companies and make sure the laws made are good for them !)

My ruler are fine , and no,  we are not together ,  my country was under occupation for 400 years under the Turks ...  And No one moved a finger to help my nation,  we become free again by spieling our own blood .
One small nation of lunatics against the Turkish empire ..

And we won !!

Do you know what ? ... your simple financial problems ... are the pain of an splinter in a finger,
in front of the damage, that the occupation and the war had cause to my nation ...

Greece is the mother of all the west civilization ...
It should be safe guarded by every west nation world wide, its the primary source of any knowledge and science.

Since the moment that any true worthy human value , has no value against money , I do not care about any one too.   

So let my ruler alone ..   

[Simon]

your quibbling about something that happened before nations even knew each other, you know damn well that your trying to make a non point. as for financial problems I the EU just bailed you out didn't they ? some gratitude, I hope england never gets into the euro and learns to be strong and stand alone. If you want to quote history think of the enormous effort Britain put into WW2 for a great part standing alone to get rid of the nazi's, but these things are best left alone and they are more recent than the incidents you refer to. I'll remind you, it s the year 2010 not 1710

[RayJones]

The surest way to make enemies is to argue on forums about race/religion/politics.

This *international* forum here is for neither, so please cease and desist, I've certainly had enough of the dribble. 

[Simon]

The surest way to make enemies is to argue on forums about race/religion/politics.

This *international* forum here is for neither, so please cease and desist, I've certainly had enough of the dribble. 

good idea

[Kiriakos-GR]

The surest way to make enemies is to argue on forums about race/religion/politics.

Yes , if we ever do that , we will follow your suggestion  ..

I am talking with historical facts , if you are unable to do the discrimination,
you are off topic .  
 
The historical facts , are our past , we learn from it , we evaluate it , and we try to not make the same mistakes.

And one last thing ,  Simon are one fine Man , and I love his passioned way of expression ,
and what I hate , are anything pathetic.  

[Simon]

The surest way to make enemies is to argue on forums about race/religion/politics.

Yes , if we ever do that , we will follow your suggestion  ..

I am talking with historical facts , if you are unable to do the discrimination,
you are off topic .  
 
The historical facts , are our past , we learn from it , we evaluate it , and we try to not make the same mistakes.

And one last thing ,  Simon are one fine Man , and I love his passioned way of expression ,
and what I hate , are anything pathetic.  

Like you I either say what I think or shut up 

[Rhythmtech]

None of this is in hate or malice of any person or country. What recourse do we have for our frustrations if we can't talk about them with our peers. 

I for one would gladly have beers with anyone on this forum who disagrees with me.  I am happy there is a place to talk about what I believe and hear about what others believe. Some times emotionally based retorts seep in, but that's why there is forgiveness and understanding - people screw up and need it.  Anger is a normal response which is sometimes not easily filtered, we all benefit from learning how to talk about difficult topics among those whom we feel understand us best. 

I am beginning to understand Kiriakos point of view better, but never would have, had it not been for this thread.  I still do not agree with him, but definitely respect him more and would hope if I ever make it to Greece to meet him. 

[Simon]

Well we all get to know our own history and our own culture best and it is easy to misunderstand we are all in the same mess

[Kiriakos-GR]

I am beginning to understand Kiriakos point of view better, but never would have, had it not been for this thread.  I still do not agree with him, but definitely respect him more and would hope if I ever make it to Greece to meet him. 

Well , if I did not had an inner kick about making international relations , I would not be here in the first place.
I had grow up with the principal to be always Justice and always speak the truth.
Thats an costly behavior , but I prefer it , than act an fake character , lovable but fake.

Get the Beers, I will bring the burgers ..  and Simon will bring the girls ..       

[Simon]

girls ? what are, girls ? hm no sorry can't help there mate   

[Kiriakos-GR]

No problem .
An party for monks , sounds good too .